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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-18-2000, 12:44 AM:
 
We're comming up to the end of our movie season, here at Mercyhurst College. Each season we make a few improvements. I was asked by the boss if I had any suggestions but I couldn't think of any.

We just put in a new screen and spekers last season. We also got the film cleaner (and of course FilmGuard!) for this season.

In the past, we've gotten title strips. ("Previews", "...and now our FEATURE", etc.) We also did a few things to beef up the sound. (Putting the sound through the Media Matrix that was already in there.)

Here are some ideas I've had...


  1. Get a SR-D (Dolby Dig.)
  2. Get some automation. (Hook the cue detector to the house lights, etc.)
  3. Get a logo strip that says, "Mercyhurst".
  4. Get travellers for the masking.

Aside from cost, the problem with SR-D is that it might not be worth it. A lot of films we have aren't in digital. Also, our auditorium is originally a concert hall, not a movie theatre. (The accoustics are different) Wouldn't putting digital in there be kinda' like putting a stained-glass window in a privy?

What to all you folks think?

 

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-18-2000, 08:25 AM:
 
If my memory serves me correctly you have a Mod2B processor and it will not accept a digital input.
I would replace it with either a Panastereo or a CP65 (only if you get the real SR cards not the Cat222SR/A)
You can then add as required
 
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-18-2000, 08:47 AM:
 
How about a DTS unit, since (if they made them) it can be used to run muliple langauges.

A SR-D or DTS still makes sense, because it sounds great and is low maintaince.

Or a system for the hearing-imparied.

What lenses are you using? If they are over 20 years old, you would get a big improvement with new ones. Or maybe additional lenses to properly show 1.33, 1.66. etc.

Sub-woofer system? Or anything that would improve the accoustics (sound deading, more surround speakers, etc.)

Movable masking would be nice. Try to get to open/close for 1.33, 1.66. etc.

Booth supplies: Split reels, trailer flange, good splicer, frame counter, additional tools or projector parts. If there's a small port window (rather then a large spotlight window) for the projector(s), how about a peice of optical glass?

Take a look at the post "Booth Supplys" from 12-14-1999.
 

Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 04-18-2000, 10:02 AM:
 
Randy,
What kind of projectors do you have and how many of them? I ask because from time to time we have perfectly good rebuilt products that we cannot sell as new, and depending upon several factors, we sometimes make them available to educational institutions at greatly reduced or no cost.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Comonent Engineering

 

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-18-2000, 11:40 AM:
 
Randy,
The first thing you should do is get the travlers for proper masking. Making a proper presentation should be foremost and with yards of blank screem staring back at the audience that can't be too good of an impression. The next thing I would do is to add digital sound along with some type of acoustic treatment. My feelings are of course biased towards SRD as this particuluar single system has proven itself far more reliable than any of the others as long as you have the CAT 701 Reader...forget the basement digital stuff but do go the LED scanner route for analog. I lost count of how many ROM drives I've replaced in DTS units and there are also reports of theaters in this area with the new DTS processors that are locking up at random. Also as one local Artsy theater here in SLC says that he sees far more SRD tracks comming in on foreign films now than any other system. It does seems like it is getting to be the universally accepted system for the most part. Also I would go the CP-500 route. The 500 has digital EQ and really does sound better overall than the old cat 64's. You can also get the real SR in the 500 if you want to soend the extra$$, but it is something that will probably go un noticed. Personally, I tend to stay away from off brand stuff like Smart, or Panastereo. As good as they may sound that ain't whats happenin in the real world.
Mark
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-18-2000, 12:04 PM:
 
I have a dislike of the CP500 as I find the digital eq harsher (especially the older ones) than the analogue eq (same goes for SDDS)
That is why I would recomend the CP65 or the Panastereo that is the best sounding unit out there FYI the British Film Institute is replaceing their CP500's with Panastereo's
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-18-2000, 02:22 PM:
 
Gordon,

Memory serves you well! Smart Mod II B it is. Originally it was only Left/Right stereo only. It was modified for L/C/R/Surr. (Not split surr.) It does have an "AUX" input ghmode. There are terminals on the back for L/C/R/S. I thought that's all that was needed. Guess not.
If we did get SR-D it would likely be a penthouse reader, not in the basement.
If I had MY choice, I'd replace the processor right now. Aside from the fact that I don't like the sound, it just seems kind of "klunky" to me. Folks around here are kind of sketchy about replacing something that works perfectly "well".

Equipment:


Yep, the lenses are pretty old. They're on my list. Still, "Why replace them? Are they broken?"

There are PICS in the Pic Warehouse if you want to see them.

Masking:
We have custom made curtains for masking. They are black scrim w/ Duvetine on the edges. We tie them to the fly pipe. There are spike marks for each format (F/S/Acad) It's kind of a pain in the ass to move them. Travellers would be way nice!

DTS:
That's what I would choose but I don't think enough of our films are formatted in DTS. I've only seen a few with timecode and we've only ever gotten ONE with discs in the can. I suppose we could ASK for discs when we book films. Still, I think there are more SR-D prints than DTS. (At least in the ones we book.)

Assisted listening:
Good Idea! That's definately on my list! The boss will go for it 'cuz we can make it do double duty for stage shows, too!

As far as supplies, I try to slip in a few new items now and then. I've also got a bunch of "salvaged" stuff, too.
 

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-18-2000, 02:54 PM:
 
Gord,
Doug Raden, of Raden/Davis (913-962-2302) did extensive listening tests with the CP-500 and the CP-65. He concluded that the 500 EQ was far cleaner and quieter than the cat 64's were in the CP-65. I've installed both CP's and like them both but the fact is that there is far less phase shift in the 500 eq system than there can ever be in the cat 64's. The 500 eq system is also alot quieter than its competitors. Lets face it the simple fact that you get real SR with it does make a difference, and there is the option to even upgrade that.
Personally, I have not noticed any harshness when setting up CP-500's on EV, or JBL 2 or 3 way systems and using the R-2 for eq. Perhaps the mixes you were running were not so good.........Use R-1 of True Lies or something of that caliber for your tests, and above all something you are familiar with. Never use the film that just happens to be sitting on the platter at the time.
Mark
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-18-2000, 03:00 PM:
 
I'm going with Gord here. The cat64Bs are superior in my opinion to any form of digital eqing. That includes CP500s and anything SDDS. I'm always careful not to "over-eq" and I think that's really the trick.

I prefer a CP65 with a DTS6-D over a DA20 purely for the 3db drop on the surrounds though on the CP65 model.
 

Posted by Andy Davis (Member # 262) on 04-18-2000, 07:51 PM:
 
Somebody mentioned a frame counter. What exactly is this?
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-18-2000, 07:55 PM:
 
A "frame counter" is better known as a "sync block." It's basically a big sprocket that is mounted on a base and geared to an odometer-like device that measures the film in feet and frames.

This type of device has two major uses--measuring film (for figuring out how much footage is lost in a reel, determining running times for things, and checking changeover cue placement) and finding framelines at fade-outs. It's kind of hard to describe this thing in words, but sync blocks are incredibly useful (I would argue that they are essential) in the booth and you'll wonder how you got along without one.
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-18-2000, 08:04 PM:
 
Oh, as for the "upgrade" suggestions--I think it's great that this place wants to continually upgrade their equipment. That attitude is a far cry from the typical attitude of commercial theatre managers.

Personally, I'd say that there are lots of things that you should do before even thinking about digital sound. SR-D would be nice, but the cost is probably in the $20k range by the time that you buy the equipment and have someone come out to install and tweak it.

I'd suggest starting with picture-quality issues: get the masking working properly (preferably with remote control devices in the booth), ditch the old lenses and get a full set of new or slightly-used ISCO lenses, replace your xenon bulb if it's time, replace any damaged parts (reflectors, etc.), replace port glass with proper optical glass, etc.

Then for sound quality, I'd recommend getting a full set of test/alignment films and doing a full A-chain alignment and maybe a B-chain if you can borrow or rent an RTA from somewhere. Have a good tech come out to tweak stuff. Maybe start to think about upgrading the processor to something like a souped-up CP-50 (with A and SR cards, 108C preamp card, 64B EQ cards, etc.) or CP-65.

If you still have money left over, consider the following: second projector for once-only screenings, 16mm projector, booth supplies (split reels, better rewind bench, etc.) and whatever else strikes your fancy. I'd much rather have all of this stuff than digital sound, personally...
 
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-18-2000, 08:26 PM:
 
May I strongly suggest you dump those lenses. In fact, (if it was me) that would be number one, and a lot of the other stuff could wait.

In addition to the large improvement in focus/resoution, you will probably get a 2-3 fL increase in light. Anamorphic lenses (usually they are called 'adapters' because they screw on to a "prime" lens) do not have a focal length.

Not cheap, though. One lens 4 inch= (about) 100mm - a Super Cinelux (35mm) is $1640. An anamorphic - $2100.
 

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 04-18-2000, 11:00 PM:
 
Is this a "sync block"? I took a picture of it back in 1983.

That big wheel has marks on it which line up with the frame lines... so you could run a big, long piece of black film or leader or whatever through it and, at the end, you could easily see if you were still in frame. I didn't have to use it often, but when I did it was quite handy.


 

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 04-18-2000, 11:20 PM:
 
That's a frame line marker and footage counter. A sync-block looks just the same except it has two or more rollers so you can keep the film and soundtrack "in-sync."

I wish I had one of those, just like the picture.
 

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 04-19-2000, 08:46 AM:
 
Yep, that's the puppy. Nuemade makes them about 5 years age, they were $325. I thought a sync block was for two or more lengths of film.

Very handy, especially for (as Scott said) to find the frame line in totally dark film.
 

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-19-2000, 09:02 AM:
 
Randy the Aux inputs of the Mod2B are for use with the Smart 4 track mag preamps that supported buss switching only
also there is no input for the subwoofer
Mark the Cp500 eq's are far smoother than the SDDS but analogue should stayu analogue and digital should stay digital. Also I do not like putting all my eggs in one basket ith a combined digital and analogue processor
I have seen the CP500 die a horrible death when the power brick failed and even bypass didn't work
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-19-2000, 10:23 AM:
 
Re: Footage Counters

Theatre equipment dealers can usually supply footage counters or syncronizers. A new 35mm 1-gang synronizer with the large 12-inch circumference (16 frames) sprocket is almost $700 USD, but the Neumade or used units may be considerably less expensive.
http://www.eepco.com/products.html

I've seen some projectionists make up their own frame indexing device with a 32-tooth projector sprocket and pad rollers, similar to Greg's photo of a footage counter.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
 

Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 04-19-2000, 11:42 AM:
 
Did anyone suggest a reverse scan from component enginering? What good is all the new stuff with an old slit lense.
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-21-2000, 11:05 AM:
 
If you read the list he already has a red led reader.
If you wanted to add digital another solution since the mod 2B doesn't have a 5.1 input is actually quiet simple
Since you have the Peavey Media matrix and the Mod2 feeds into it
1 Set the outputs of the Mod2 for 300mv at 50%mod and set all eq's flat
2 Then set the eq and the levels in the dsp of the mediamatrix
3 If you want DTS buy it with the CP200 relay brekout board and put the output of the mod2 through the flow through port on it
This will allow default switching
If you want a SRD buy the DA20 and set it for a CP200 and do the same with the flow through
It probably wouldn't be a good idea to take a device like a CP500 or a DTS6AD with digital eq and then repass it through a second DSP eq as it could get noisey and defenantly reduntdant
That is tyhe simplest and most elegant method considering the need of the soundsyetm to be non dedicated and multiuse
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-25-2000, 03:05 PM:
 
Well, I decised what to ask for:


  1. Improved masking and curtain configuration. It's a pain in the butt to hang curtains by hand all the time.
  2. Automation: I won't be here forever. Someday, somebody else is going to have to run the place. I know how to run evverything by heart. The next guy might not have as much experience.
  3. Better lenses: What we have are "okay". All they were meant for was a cheap way to get us off the ground. Now that we're growing we should be able to get new lenses.
  4. Better sound processor: Again, what we have was only meant to get us off the ground without spending $9,000,000. It's time to take off the training wheels!

Thanks for all the advice! I'll keep you all posted if/when we get new stuff!
 





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