This is topic Gladiator in Dolby EX but not DTS ES? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-30-2000, 06:32 PM:
I made up our print of Gladiator on Saturday and the cans say it's in Dolby EX. I've checked the dts magazine as well as their website but it doesn't say that it's in ES as well.Why would this be? If the mix has been made, why not utilize both systems?
It may well end up that it is in fact in dts ES, but our discs have not yet arived, only the print.
Does anyone know for sure the dts format?
BTW, has it ever happened before where a US made film has opened in Australia a day before the US? Even Dundee 2 opened the same day. Interesting...
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"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage".
Indiana Jones.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-30-2000, 06:52 PM:
I am not really familiar with the es unit but I believe it can be forced on as the decode matrix is basically the same as EX as there is only on encodeing system
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-30-2000, 08:39 PM:
Never trust the cans. If the cans were correct, then I guess such films as Backdraft were somehow printed in DTS without a timecode!I've also seen classic mono "variable density" prints clearly labeled as "quad track".
If it's EX, it is ES too.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-01-2000, 12:17 AM:
Russell Crowe just called me at home and told me that it was indeed in DTS-ES. Then he hung up.
Posted by Tyler Skinner (Member # 229) on 05-01-2000, 12:22 AM:
some guy named MR.VEE just called me and was about to tell me how cap coding works, but my telephone exploded....
Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 05-03-2000, 08:42 PM:
The DTS disks for Gladiator are marked E.S,got ours yesterday. 
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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-05-2000, 03:42 AM:
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Redifer:
Russell Crowe just called me at home and told me that it was indeed in DTS-ES. Then he hung up.
You should be thankful you didn't get a darn good phone line gouging!
It is in ES, our discs arrived Tuesday night. Ran it first time Thursday and Lordy Me! She sound GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD! 
(Loud though... we're down a couple of points from our usual level)
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"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage".
Indiana Jones.
Posted by David Johnson (Member # 173) on 05-05-2000, 05:04 AM:
BTW, has it ever happened before where a US made film has opened in Australia a day before the US? Even Dundee 2 opened the same day. Interesting...[/B][/QUOTE]
Yes. "How the West was won" 3 strip Cinerama opened at Plaza Melbourne before the US
David
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-05-2000, 05:24 AM:
Russell Crowe came and screened one of our Gladiator prints tonight at my theatre. He said that he liked the EX, but felt that Toy Story 2 was the more definitive mix as far as EX is concerned. He did feel that the sound was a bit harsh in spots, but overall a decent mix. It was hard to get all of this information out of Russ since he tends to mumble a lot.After the movie he used the booth restroom and did not flush the toilet.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-05-2000, 05:39 AM:
The EX was done nicely in the opening scene, but geez...did the mixers just HAVE to add that distortion in the music to give the illusion of loudness? It was very obvious on that first scene. I thought the dialogue was over sweetened just a tad rendering it slightly harsh. For some reason the dialogue seemed to be mixed in a bit too loud as well in comparison to the music and fight scenes. Made me feel like turning down the center a decibel or two! That is what will prevent most theaters from running this movie at a true reference level, as a couple of members have already pointed out.Anyway back to the point, past that opening scene, I didn't really notice anything special about this mix. No obvious use of the EX channel.
Damnit, what is Gary Rydstrom's next movie and when will it be out?
Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 05-05-2000, 11:33 AM:
I agree, Brad. I felt that the film sounded 'compressed' and 'thin' (even in DTS). None of the expansive lushness that one expects from recent mixes. Gee, here is a film which I dislike on every conceivable level, be it technical or artistic. (Did I just use the word 'artistic' in connection with this title?)
Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 05-05-2000, 06:29 PM:
Yes, its in DTS-ES as well. ANY film released in DD-EX will play in DTS-ES, as will DTS-ES play in DD-EX.I know this is confusing but the surrounds are encoded so both the DTS-EX and DTS-ES can decode them.
Karen at DTS
Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 05-05-2000, 06:38 PM:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that all "extended surround" encoded films released in DTS will have a 5-digit serial number under the film title (on the discs). This will ensure that the sound track on the disc is indeed "extended surround" encoded.In the previous message, I was a bit vague. Its true that any film mixed for "extended surround" may be played back in Dolby-EX or DTS-ES (or other manuf. w/that type of technology). The key is, for DTS, if the disc has the correct mix version. Four digit serial number = 5.1, Five digit serial number = exteneded surround. I hope that is clearer. Sorry if I confused anyone.
Karen at DTS
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-06-2000, 03:09 AM:
I have also noticed that on any DTS-ES movie that "ES" is printed right after the 5-digitt serial number on the disc. Just look for the letters "ES" on the disc. All it takes is a quick glance. If you have your ES system hooked up to your DTS unit timecode cable, then you just plop the discs in and forget about it, as playback is 100% automatic. Even certain trailers will play in ES and others will not, all automatically off of the same trailer disc!
Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 04-28-2002, 12:19 AM:
(Brad, I know this isn't "Film Handlers Forum" material, but the thread was already here, so i'm tacking my question to the end. Feel free to move it if you wish 
)I just rented Gladiator on DVD, and noticed 2 things:
1) The DVD has DTS-ES, but not Dolby Digital EX. A bit odd, considering the above thread on the topic, i thought.
2) I've never actually heard or seen an ES or EX home decoder. Does anyone know of or have any experience with one? I'm guessing this is just a selling gimmick.
-adam
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-28-2002, 03:22 AM:
They exist. Any receiver that has DTS ES will also feature THX EX (the official home name for EX). You can play the disc back in EX using the Dolby Digital tracks and it will decode just fine. Maybe the DTS ES tracks are DISCRETE, an advantage that Dolby Digital cannot offer at this point.
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-28-2002, 12:55 PM:
Part of the confusion regarding "Gladiator" is in the rules Dolby Laboratories has set for the use of the Dolby Digital Surround EX logo. That specialized logo is only for film presentations. On DVD, only the Dolby Digital logo can be used, with any Surround EX notation printed in text. Here's a link to an Adobe Acrobat PDF file on Dolby's website describing the rules: http://www.dolby.com/trademark/co.in.1200.MarkSurEX.pdf
You'll find the stuff regarding DVD on page 2 in sections 3.1 and 3.2.My own personal opinion is that Dolby's rule is just plain counterproductive and only hurts them on being able to promote DD-EX. I think if a movie has been mixed for EX, the DD-EX logo itself should be used on everything, be it the film release or on the DVD. If a home theater receiver can do DD-EX, that logo should be on the front panel. Oh well, I got a BFA degree from a high powered art school, but what the hell do I know?
DTS apparently has the opposite rules for film and DVD. To this date, I have never seen a DTS-ES Extended Surround logo placed on a film poster or the end credits of a movie. The only place where I have seen it is on the packaging of DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete DVDs and Music only CDs (such as that nice sounding Sheryl Crow CD).
Home theater hardware, such as receivers and surround controllers must offer all DTS-ES modes, including the full discrete 6.1 format, to be able to carry the DTS-ES Extended Surround logo on the front panel of the machine. If it only does the matrixed variety, then only the regular DTS Digital Surround logo can be used.
That DTS-ES logo rule is a handy thing to remember if you are in the market to buy a true 6.1 receiver and don't wish to get hoodwinked by some stupid sales droid trying to offload some other kind of receiver on you claiming that it is 6.1 when it really isn't.