This is topic Dolby CP65 / SR Advise needed, Cat. 222 or 350? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 05-03-2000, 01:37 PM:
As a owner of a CP65 i do not have the SR cards Cat. No. 350 required for SR playback by the CP65. I will upgrade in the near future for SR, as i currently only have A-type now for optical sound.When going thru the ''manuals-pages'' i found out that Dolby has made a Cat. No. 222 SR/A card, which is a economically way to get SR playback ( you do not need to buy 2 Cat. 350 cards right? ) so the big question is how good does SR sound with the 222 card compaired with the 350 SR cards?
The Cat. 350 has a performance advantage in terms of headroom, but as i understand this extra headroom may only be necessary in the case of playback of an SR magnetic print master from a dubber?
If both card types are plugged in, logic circuits on the backplane will automatically choose the Cat. 350 over Cat. 222.
Again is it worth spending the extra money that the Cat. 350 cards cost?
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-03-2000, 03:11 PM:
Martin,
The main thing here is that you actually have real noise reduction, not some make believe version cloned by another company that thinks theirs is as good. The fact is that no one has been able to make an SR clone that performs as well as a real SR card. Its that plain and simple.
Yes the CAT-350 would be preferable if you think you might run a mag master or need extra headroom,or if you just want the best. But the 222SR/A is really a very good card for general purpose usage. For screenings I use either a pair of CAT 22's or a pair of CAT 280T cards. The 280T cards are also very good sounding but are a waste for theater use as they are record/playback cards and will not plug right in to the 65.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-03-2000, 08:38 PM:
This is turely a "no-brainer" in your case.The Cat. 350s are much better than the Cat. 222SR/A (sounding and otherwise) even for optical sound....now the other easy point is cost...
List prices:
Cat. 222SR/A $1995.00
Cat. 350 $900.00
In short, two Cat. 350s are cheaper than one Cat. 222SR/A.
Obviously, you wouldn't be paying list price but for price comparison is makes the point...
It is Cheaper AND better to use the Cat. 350s! for upgrades to the CP-65. The only time there is a cost savings on the Cat. 222SR/A for the CP-65 is on a new purchase.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Russ Kress (Member # 461) on 05-03-2000, 10:38 PM:
I still have one or two CP-55s that use SRA5 adapters to house the "real" SR cards. These adapters could probably be mated to the 65 with some soldering on your part. I'm sure Dolby tech support would be glad to help you.I can honestly, with all my heart, say that I cannot "hear" any difference between the 280T and the 222-SRA. I have been told by everyone (including Dolby), that the 280T is better, but I seriously doubt that you will ever have a customer accuse you of using the 222 if your a-chain is properly alligned.
Pick your battles. Good speakers, sufficient power, and Dolby signal processing will take care of you.
Someone mentioned "icing on the cake" earlier here. They were right. Make sure that what you have is sufficient (and in good working order).
Of course, I am not exposed to magnetic prints. The only time I use SR is in the event that the digital system fails. I was however, a big SR fan before digital took hold. Remember "Rain Man"? We did a premiere for it. We installed SR for the occasion.
Damn!! I'm OLD!!!!!!!
Russ
Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 05-04-2000, 04:06 AM:
Difference or not if the prices are all most the same, i'll go for the Cat. 350's.I just got the idear that the 222 SR-A was much cheaper compaired with the 350's as it is only one card, and has a limited amount of headroom, but again for optical SR soundtracks no differents when listning.
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It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-04-2000, 07:23 AM:
I would agree with that Martin. You'd better have a darn good system there to start A-B ing SR cards and hear the difference.
The main reason the 280 cards are so good is because they are all descreet components. On later cards the count was brought way down by using LSI technology. Also the 222 SR/A is really a playback only card.
Mark
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-04-2000, 07:34 AM:
>>"I can honestly, with all my heart, say that I cannot "hear" any difference between the 280T and the 222-SRA. I have been told by everyone (including Dolby), that the 280T is better, but I seriously doubt that you will ever have a customer accuse you of using the 222 if your a-chain is properly alligned."<<Actually...it WAS a customer complaint that caused me to get to the bottom of it! I brought over a pair of Cat. 350s and we played the same film off of each and the difference was amazing! The Cat. 222SR/A was quite shrill and had other mistracking artifacts whereas the Cat. 350 was smooth.
Another point I noticed was that the Cat. 222SR/A is more susecptible to light scratches in the soundtrack area (from say the inner flange on some pad rollers). The 222SR/A turned these into bacon frying where as the Cat. 350 tried to kill it. The noise actually increased with the 222SR/A in the SR mode vs the "A" mode.
For your reference...the A-chain was checked and was as good as could be...The particulars of the sound head were:
Component Engineering STR-20C (IR LED reverse-scan) mounted to a Century MTR-4 with the CE dashpot and improved film guidance.
The bottom line with an upgrade is that, on average, it is $150.00 CHEAPER to use the Cat. 350s and they sound as good or BETTER than the alternative.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-04-2000, 07:37 AM:
The genereal rumur was that Dolby got stuck with a bunch of consumer type S chips and figured they could adapt them to a optical only SR that was good enough
Go with the discrete SR
Also the Panastereo SR is indistinguishable from the cat 280T ( basis of the patent infringement suite) The new card actually exceeds Dolby's specs, A patent is applied for and will record as well
Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 05-04-2000, 10:50 AM:
I don't no if the Cat. 280 are made anymore, but hearing the comments here they sound to be your favorite SR cards because of there very good discrete build-up.------------------
It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-04-2000, 11:57 AM:
Martain:The Cat. 280 (or 280T for theatre use) are most certainly still made and priced identical to the Cat. 350. The 300 series work with different buss levels and have a different edge connector from the Cat. 280 or Cat. 22 series. The Cat. 280 is a plug in replacement to the Cat. 22 where as the Cat 350 is a plug in replacement to the Cat. 450 (A-type). The Cat. 300 has both SR and A noise reductions.
It is a matter of getting the proper card for one's particular application. In your case it is the Cat. 350.
Steve
Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 05-04-2000, 02:47 PM:
Thanks for all the advice 
geez there are many different types of SR cards i think i'll be happy with a pair of Cat. 350 cards then!Time to call my dealer!
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It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-04-2000, 03:26 PM:
Yes, as you said Gord....that is a rumor. Dolby would hardly "get stuck" with anything, indeed the 222 SR/A card is a whole new design form the ground up.
Mark
Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 05-05-2000, 03:19 AM:
Here's a question out of curiosity. What if I had a CP200 with all the proper Cat. 22 cards for playback of A-type 70mm mag, and I wanted to upgrade so I could play back 70mm mag in both A-type and SR. Would I replace all the Cat. 22s with another card? Or would I add on SR-only cards somewhere?
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-05-2000, 05:29 AM:
The cat 280T is a direct replacement to achieve SR in a CP200.
Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 05-06-2000, 05:08 PM:
Ah. But would you have to switch out the Cat. 22s and the Cat. 280Ts every time you wanted to change between 6-channel A-type and SR? Or is there a way to fit them all together?
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-06-2000, 06:59 PM:
You could hoop up an SRA-5 box or do some creative wiring to the Aux rack (provided you have one) to run 35mm in A or SR without swapping cards, but 70mm would require the swapping.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-06-2000, 07:11 PM:
Here is another solution with a cp200 and it would require 3 or the SMART SR1+ adapters and the DOLBY 280T cards
Connect the outputs of the MPU to both the L prein and the Laux in terminals and the same for right channel.
Set the aux pots to max
by grounding the SR enable line with a new format number you would pass the signal through the 280T cards ( the new format would have to turn the 22's off)
If the SR enable is left high the cards are bypassed for regular A type
Posted by David Koegel (Member # 25) on 05-08-2000, 07:25 AM:
Okay, here's a related question, this coming from someone that's just gotten a CP-200 and has not before had any sound processing equipment (Hence, all these Cat #'s have been pretty meaningless to me at this point.). Brad recommended the 280T SR cards for the CP-200. Well, I was able to get some 350's on the very cheap (although I had ordered through a friend some 280s). Will they not work with the CP-200? I can't say that I've even tried to install them yet. If not, anyone care to trade for some 280T's?
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 09-29-2004, 11:50 AM:
It has been 1605 days since the last post.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-29-2004, 11:50 AM:
Bump.
Do _all_ CP65s accept the cat. 222 "SR"/A card or will it work only in newer models (built after the 222 "SR"/A card was designed)?
I'll be doing a show in a couple of weeks in a venue which is equipped with a CP65 that is set up for mono and A-type NR (with cat. 222) only. Since the film will be SR, can I just take the evil cat. 222 "SR"/A card out of my CP65 at home and bring it to the venue and expect it to work? Even though the sound will be mono, I would at least like to make sure that it sounds as good as it possibly can.
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-29-2004, 05:21 PM:
Scott, the older CP-65 processors need to be modified to work with the Cat. 222 SR/A. From memory I think it's a small extra card that's mounted on the backplane. The CP-65 will then work with Cat. 350s + a Cat. 222, or a Cat 222 SR/A. If both Cat. 350s and a Cat. 222 SR/A are fitted, then the Cat. 350s will be used for SR; if you remove them, then the unit will revert to using the Cat. 222 SR/A for SR.
Full details are in the Cat. 222 SR/A manual, available in the Film-Tech manuals section.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-29-2004, 05:50 PM:
Ahh..thanks. It didn't occur to me that there would be a whole manual just for the card. Hopefully the CP65 in question has a "REV 3" backplane (post-s/n 504989) and will take the fake-SR card without modification (which I am not going to do for a one-off show).
Otherwise, the director of a Big Upcoming Pixar Film will just have to deal with hearing his film played with the wrong NR.
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-29-2004, 06:05 PM:
Scott, II don't know what would happen if you tried to use a Cat. 222 SR/A in a processor that hadn't been modiified.
I've only just got in from doing some progection this evening, after my daytime job, 14 hours total, I had to work late Monday and yesterday, 12 hours each. At the weekend I'm doing something qute insane; I'm flying over there on Saturday morning, and then flying back on Sunday evening, landing at London Gatwick at about 8:30 on Monday, then going in to work, 12 hour shifts on both Monday and Tuesday. I can't keep doing this at my age! I'll only be back for about two weeks, then I'm flying over there again.
I've got some more projection work lined up for November - February.
It's midnght, I'm going to bed, got to be up early n the morning.