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Posted by Travis Cape (Member # 466) on 05-09-2000, 10:17 AM:
I have spent some time looking through the comments. I am the manager of the Hi-Pointe Theatre in St. Louis. We are 78 years old and still going, struggling though. I appreciated the comments concerning changeover marks. Yes, we all have a platter, but some of of would prefer to run reels when the time and event allows. It gives you the time to observe your equipment in action. I'll post a pic soon. We have the smallest booth with the most equipment. Dual XL's, RCA 9050's, ORC 1600 lamps, Irem N75 rectifiers, and a Christie AW3 platter. Of course, we are independent, a chain wouldn't allow such a mixture of projection equipment. If anyone comes to St. Louis look me up.
Posted by Stephen Winner (Member # 8) on 05-09-2000, 09:46 PM:
good to hear from another movie-palace projectionist. I perfer reels myself for our single screen. Do you have any pictures of your theater and your booth? I would be interested in seeing them. You can check out the Byrd theater pics for some of ours here in Richmond
Posted by Chris Wootten (Member # 283) on 05-11-2000, 04:43 AM:
Platters are for cinemas where they can't afford to have a projectionist on duty beside the projectors.......Ha !I want to hear from all the film handlers still using reels........go the oldies..... 
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"I luv the smell of napalm in tha mornin !"
Keep Smiling......Chris
Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-11-2000, 10:20 AM:
*groan* Platter vs Changeover debate-againSo I assume you guys are talking about 2000' reels and not 6000', since using 6000' foot reels is not much better than platters (you're only saving one splice). So tell me, how many 2000' reel changeover systems can a projectionist realisticly handle? Four? So a 12 plex like my theatre would need to have 3 projectionists on duty at all times-even when say only 28 people show up for the first set of shows (assuming you have to start all the movies, which usually ends up happening even with low attendance). That means payroll costs for weekday matinees would double. Hmmm. Not to mention we would need to buy 12 more projectors-18 since I don't think our Christies could handle changeovers. That's a lot of expensive equipment.
Look, the button line is that in the hands of competent operators platters are an amazing labor and time saving mechanism that does not detract from the presentation of a movie. It must also be pointed out that an incompetent operator will make a changeover system be a horrible presentation. In the end, MONEY DOESN'T GROW ON TREES. Its easy for us to sit here and say, "Well if the multiplexes would improve their presentation," or, "if the prices at the concession stand were lower..." but in the real world things are not always so easy. Our theatre has a very good presentation in my opinion, especially compared to our shitty competition. But our competitor does more business than us. Why? Bookings. They get all the big movies. People come to see the movie. They don't even know the difference between platters and changeovers.
Posted by Kyle Smith (Member # 177) on 05-11-2000, 12:03 PM:
Having worked in various cinemas, one using reels and carbons, the others using platters and xenons, I have to say it's much easier with the platters/xenon, especially in the multi-plex. Here in Southern CT, we seem to have an overbuilt situation. At one time, Showcase Cinemas in Orange pretty much dominated the market. Since then, Showcase has added a (now) 12-plex in North Haven and a 5-plex in Milford. They also have a 4-plex in another part of Milford. On top of this, Hoyt's has built a 12-plex in Branford and O'Neill's has built a 12-plex in Westbrook. Further, Madison has an independent two-plex that receives first run movies. What does it seem to boil down to? A very watered down crowd in each and every auditorium I look into, with the exception of opening nights for the higher anticipated features. On one hand, it disgusts me to no end to see the quality of presentation degraded so dramatically (in most but not all of the theaters), because I am a stickler like most of you, for perfection in projection. Watching these "kids" pay no attention to their splices and threading, being more concerned with how fast they do their job rather than how accurate is extremely annoying and makes for redundancies on my shift, like fixing out-of-frame splices and the like (doing this in a 12-plex with no timers can be challenging in between shows). On the other hand, economically speaking, CT's not the easiest state to do business in with all the taxes. Owners don't really have much choice but to prioritize budget and make sacrifices. So I understand where they're coming from in that respect. It's just too bad that they "don't show 'em like they used to". Unfortunately, it's not only the exhibition business I've seen suffer in the past few years. It's many industries.
Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 05-11-2000, 01:14 PM:
The real losers when it comes to poor projection will eventually be the movie studios themselves. With home cinema advancing so much that you get better pic and sound by staying home in many cases, people just are not going to go to the movies as much, wich in turn means less revenue for the studios. IF the studios were smart, they would REQUIRE a certain percentage of ticket revenue go to proper presentation. Instead they suck up most of it so they can continue to roll out the garbage we keep getting. The music industry went through the same thing a few years back, putting just about EVERYONE who wanted to release an album into the stores. eventually they had to stop and only produce the most quality of artists. The music industry bounced back. Soon the movie industry will feel the same effect, nothing but garbage out there and people will stop going.
I myself will no longer go to movies unless I feel the need to blow $20 on stale popcorn and watered down drinks. Besides, I have HBO and the PORN channel at home.
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"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"
Posted by Frank Rapisardi (Member # 435) on 05-11-2000, 01:49 PM:
In response to overbuilding;it seems to me that new mutiplexes are popping up everywhere!In Lawrence Ma.National Amusements has two remodeled mutiplexes.In Methuen Ma.Loews is finishing a 20-plex.When is enough going to be enough?Where is the audience going to come from.Or will there enentually be more theaters than patrons.That seems to be the case in many parts of the country now.The two communities I mentioned are only about 10 miles apart.No wonder auditoria are getting smaller.Remember large 1000 seat and bigger houses! If the building trend continues;will we have a mutiplex on every corner of every city and town? I ran Gladiator this afternoon and we had only 15 people in for the first show.Not very good for a rainy day hear in Ma.------------------
Posted by Travis Cape (Member # 466) on 05-11-2000, 02:13 PM:
My comments about a dual projector both were not meant to advocate their installation in any new first run theatre. Their advantages are limited and a little bit romantic. We almost lost projector #2 because a technician recommended that is was in the way. But we have had an easier time running our shows with the capability to use either machine. Money doesn't grow on trees for the multiplexes and it certainly isn't there for the last remaining single screens.
Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 05-11-2000, 04:04 PM:
Travis, even if you were stuck running platter operation, having that second machine will be a great comfort if the other machine decides to go kaput.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-11-2000, 04:24 PM:
As one who's spent the last couple of years running changeovers and who is now working with platters and automation, I'll add this: I wouldn't even consider anything less than a two-machine booth in a single-screen house, even if I were going to put a platter alongside the projectors. The redundancy is absolutely essential, since a dead projector would mean zero revenue for the night in a single-screener with a one-machine/platter setup. At least with reels, a regular feature could be run in two parts, with a one-minute intermission for the reel change, if one projector were to bite the dust for a night. Platters are also a waste of time for short runs, and trailer changes can be a pain. Even with automatic lens turrets, it would be quite a feat to run, say, an Academy-frame short, flat/1.85 trailers, and a scope feature in one program without a second projector...
On the other hand, there's no way that I'd want to run a multiplex without platters and automation. Automation and start timers (and a good operator) are the only hope of putting on a good show in a multiplex, and platters allow the operator to devote more time and attention to focus and other tweaks on all screens, rather than having to constantly thread up additional reels. Still, if I were building an "ideal multiplex" (yes, it's an oxymoron), I'd put two machines in the booth for the largest screen for both redundancy and screenings/film fests/etc. There's no point in making up a print for a platter if it will only be shown once, and the thought of putting automation cues on "rare" or "archival" prints for special screenings is pretty offensive to me (and many of these prints aren't allowed to be run on platters, anyway).
Basically, each system has its own uses for which it is well suited. Although I'd prefer to run an all-manual single-screen booth, I can certainly appreciate both systems.
Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 05-12-2000, 07:17 AM:
OK. Here's my view on this.I have worked at one changeover house, and one platter house w/2 screens. I liked the changeover house the best. WHY? Because the shift went by soooo fast. No chance to get bored.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 05-12-2000, 08:54 AM:
I agree with Scott; having c/o's or platters depends on the kind of theater you are going to run.Bruce is right, too (c/o shifts go by fast.) I would only add that you usually do a better job. You are always moving around within the one booth, so it's easy to peek out of the window and tweak the focus or tension or whatever.
I really admired the work of good "old-time" operators during the movie theater's hayday; imagine the work they had to do. Nitrate prints that could jam- the wax to lubricate them was probably not as effective as what we have today. Carbon rods that were not manufactured in a consistant manner, AC power that varied in voltage and cycle rate requiring adjustments. Constant maintaince of projectors, etc, etc....
Posted by Jason R. Weinsteiger (Member # 456) on 05-13-2000, 12:06 AM:
dave sayeth:"The music industry went through the same thing a few years back, putting just about EVERYONE who wanted to release an album into the stores. eventually they had to stop and only produce the most quality of artists."
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when did they start that? hehehe
jasoN
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"That's what life is - a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of muppets." -Dante Hicks
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-13-2000, 12:04 PM:
Why must you all tanunt me so?!?1?Scott...have you ever run an automated changover plex? It really and truely is easier than the platter versions. At least with a changeover plex, you will be forced to go by each screen at least once during the show...and maybe, by accident, someone might just look out the port (obstructed by the slide projector, I know) and make sure that the frame and focus are still good.
The bottom line is platters do not save on either labor or time, they actually increase both. As a generalization, the changeover theatres I attend do a better job than the platter ones...a better quality of operator probably is the difference sure, but then again, the changeover houses seem to get more than their fair share of those....coincidence, I don't think so.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-13-2000, 04:40 PM:
Damn Steve, you should check your gears if your shows keep wandering out of frame that you have to keep going by to check up on it! Most local community colleges also offer classes on basic math. You might want to see about a night course when calculating labor on platters vs. changeovers. 
I beg you to look me up next time you are in Colorado so you can see platters done right.
(Sorry Steve, but I just HAD to step in and say something there. 
)
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-13-2000, 04:48 PM:
Scott in Toronto all our multiplexs were on 6000 foot reels until the recent construction raided equipment from existing plexes and I can quiet remeber doing less running around in a 8 plex with 6000' reels than I did in a eight plex with platters.
They had the Slim Jim Simplexes with the onboard rewind (not through the mech)
At intermission I wasn't running to rethread as the 1st reeel was already threaded in each screen.
I recently did a multi for a manager operator and he likes the reels because he is in the lobby at intermission between shows not up in the booth threading up
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-13-2000, 06:45 PM:
I dunno Brad...I did pretty well in math, in fact, I was just a couple courses shy of being able to double major in Electrical Engineering and Math....I dunno about you but I can set up a multiplex running 6K reels with as few operators as you want, none even except on show change days (not that I advocate that sort of thing). If you will allow one full time operator on duty at all times than I can set up as big a plex with changeover as you can with platters. And if it is you against me in the booth...I'll take an extra screen on reels. :-)
Now to a recent story...
We recently set up a reopened single art/rep house...they wisely chose to dump the existing platter and reinstall the 2nd projector (and that was before I came into the picture!). In fact, due to the show change frequency, they are on 20 min reels. The manager they hired came from an AMC house and never seen any booth without a platter. During the week, theatre runs manager/operator too. One of the projectors could handle 6K reels while the one that was butchered for the platter could only handle 2K reels which wasn't an issue since they intended to run on 2K reels. A month after opening, they were running one machine on the 6K reels and the other on 2K (not surprising given that this was an old theatre where the booth is at the top of the balcony). I was just back to the theatre for a 6 month pm call and brought with me the equipment to allow both projectors to handle 6K reels...when the manager arrived, I told him about my plans to which I got... "don't bother we only run on 2K reels now and I took those noisy reel end alarms off too!" My jaw dropped. Here >I< was convincing an ex-AMC manager to have the capability to run 6K reels. He did look a bit slimmer, now that I think about it.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-13-2000, 07:45 PM:
Steve - nope, I've never run (or seen) a multiplex with 6000' reels. It would be interesting, though. My limited multiplex experience has been with the standard platter/automation setup.
But I'm looking forward to running 2000' reels and carbon-arcs next weekend...
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-13-2000, 09:03 PM:
Steve, I can run a 30 plex with platters with no problems. And you say you can run 30 changeovers? Who's going to be running around more here? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize you will be working MORE than twice as hard, because you've got not only double the projectors (triple for long movies) to thread, but you're got to REWIND all of them too! Geez, what if that 30 plex only has 2 rewind tables!!!You REALLY need to do your math.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-13-2000, 09:16 PM:
No Brad...if you are running 30 screens platters, I'll run 31 on reels. I'll be huffing a bit less too. Do the math any way you want.Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 05-13-2000, 09:50 PM:
In Jamestown ND, there is a 3 or 6 plex, I cant remember, that runs 6k changeovers.I cant remember if its automated though.
Josh
Posted by Travis Cape (Member # 466) on 05-13-2000, 11:24 PM:
I guess I never meant my comments to start a war about who can run the most screens. I would feel a bit lazy with one, but I also pop popcorn, sell tickets, clean, and fix all the old stuff that breaks. Not that I really want to do it all, we just can't afford to do it otherwise. Besides, with AMC and Wehrenberg locally, who else can do it?
Posted by Kyle Smith (Member # 177) on 05-14-2000, 12:07 PM:
I recently trained for a certain chain (12-plex) who's headquarters are in Australia and the name starts with an "H". Anybody have that figured out yet? LOL. Anyway, this chain required the projectionists to don their lovely red vests and tacky tie and go down and perform the QSC checks in each auditorium, three times per show, because the manager insists that projectionists "don't have enough to do" (what the heck do their ushers do?). On top of that, we were also asked to replace mylars and in the winter, shovel snow. All this for the astounding wage of $6.50 an hour. The supervisor gleefully pledged that this would be increased to $7.00 an hour once we "knew all there was to do" (In CT, this won't buy you pretzels at the concession stand). At least I still have O'Neills, is all I'll say. That "H" company obviously has tremendous respect for their employees. And their building is one big wooden box. I guess they're cheap all the way through. OK, I vented. Thank you for your endurance.
Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 05-14-2000, 04:12 PM:
Tom moyer theatres ran 6000ft reels in His multyplexes eight screens. In the old days in downtown olympia, washing. tom had three single screen houses that were about two blocks apart two projectors with 6000ft reels and one projectionist that would walk from house to house starting and watching tha change overs. If you want to go way back use 1000ft reels and run your carbons off the street car cables.Like they did in seattle,WA
Posted by Chris Rhode (Member # 448) on 05-14-2000, 10:03 PM:
Kyle said:Watching these "kids" pay no attention to their splices and threading, being more concerned with how fast they do their job rather than how accurate is extremely annoying and makes for redundancies on my shift, like fixing out-of-frame splices and the like (doing this in a 12-plex with no timers can be challenging in between shows).
I am an 18 year old "kid" from Tampa, FL who is the supervisor of the projection booth of the biggest theater in the area (not like that makes any difference though.) I can be quick and not sacrifice any quality at the same time. I have only had 1 bad splice in the 7 months that I have been working in projection (that was because I was very new to building up movies.) However I have witnessed what you are talking about first hand. There are some young people out there who take pride in their work (although that seems few and far between.) I wish I could fire people because if I had my way, 95% of my staff in projection would be gone.
I have seen people change trailers off of the floor (which has since stopped,) wind up trailers the wrong way (totally destroying the SDDS track,) and general carelessness when threading up movies (this has occured from a 30 year old man mind you.) I think of it this way... it doesn't matter how old you are, it is how much pride you take in your job working in projection that makes the ultimate difference in presentation. I can safely say that everybody who visits film-tech.com and participates in the forums take pride in their work. Most of the people that work for me just look it as a job that makes more money that people who work downstairs. That is what I am trying to rid the projection booth of because that is what degrades quality.
I may just be ranting here (I apologize if I am,) but just keep in mind that there are some kids out there that take their job in projection very seriously.
But I am not mad at you Kyle, I am just trying to distance myself from the rest of the group of kids.
Thank you for reading my rant (if you have gotten this far!!
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Chris Rhode
chrisrhode@hotmail.com
My reputation preceeds me..... in fact, it arrived about 45 years ago!
Posted by Sean M. Grimes (Member # 445) on 05-14-2000, 10:26 PM:
As my first post I would like to extend a warm thankyou to everyone who posts their comments and helpful suggestions... I have worked for a single plex a ten and a thirteen and let me tell you I have to totally agree that changeovers are "it" for single screens and I would couldnt even fathom the event of a changeover multi.
And just to let you know Kyle - not all managers for Hoyts are ritiualistic pagans to their booth people... there really are some great people in this company - just like every other movie corp. you just need to stick with it and weed out the weaklings.once again thanx to everyone for such a great thread.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-15-2000, 07:53 AM:
Chris:I agree with you, it's not how old you are, but how much you care about learning how to do a good job, and then doing it!
I worked my way through college as a projectionist. Sure I made mistakes, but I learned from them. I read all I could find about projection. I learned from others whenever I could, visiting other theatres to see how they did things and to "talk shop" with other operators. My part-time job as a projectionist has become a rewarding career at Kodak, thanks to my mentor Ken Kavanaugh, who was the BA for the Buffalo IATSE Local at the time, and suggested Kodak as a great place to work.
Projectionists are a vital link in the movie industry. For a bit of inspiration, visit the Kodak site and play the trailer "One Million Hours" which says "It takes one million hours to make a movie, and only two hours to show it":
http://www.kodak.com/go/screencheck
We all work in "Show Business" and as we all know "There's no business like Show Business". 
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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 05-16-2000, 10:19 PM:
i agree with brad on that last one. who wants to pay twice the money for at least a minimum of two proj. istead of just one. god forbid you are not counting how many reels do you plan on buying? i use a total of a about 6 6k reels and these are only used when movies come in all tails up. henceforth less used better con. if you wanted to buy 2 6k for 30 proj. hmmmmm thats that is 60 reels. ten times as much as what i own.
two i use to work for cinemark tinseltown twenty. I know the types of people they hire to run a booth. lets take a thur for instance.(changeover nights) one time a person i knew had two mispliced trailers and three backwards. easy fix. pull out trailers and replace. trailer changes are also more convenient seeing as that they occur more often in a thirty plex because you simply have more theaters to chang. what are you going to do? rewind each 6k till you hit trailers then rewind to trailer that is to be removed then change it? i can change a trailer in 2min. next lets look at moving prints. this too will occur more often in a 30-plex including screenings. changeovers. theater percentages, etc. I just put on a couple of clamps pick up the print and go on my happy little way. it seems to me that it would be more of a hassle to move two seperate 6k reels to another proj.(more trips involved here) god forbid yo are moving them from one wing to completely the other side of the theater.
like i said earlier i know the types of people that are tolerated to be in the booth. like bradd said earlier, once it is on the platter it is there. and will run through the right order each time. most people are smart enough to start the wrong proj. especially on a day that you are just plain thinking bacwards. or i have also seen enough times of people deciding to thread soundline backwards how easy is it to change once it is going? 
Posted by Kyle Smith (Member # 177) on 05-17-2000, 12:09 PM:
I want to apologize to you Chris and all the other "youngsters" for what wasn't meant as a stereotype at all. Age surely has nothing to do with it. It's just that the young people I work with in a 12-plex are of the "it's just another job" mindset. I have personally yet to witness one of them who cared anything like the people on this forum. They're offered to learn new things and they have no interest. Shoot, we all probably made a mistake or two when we started in this field. I threaded a movie backwards (soundtrack in, not out) on my second shift and watched the old Hoyt's logo appear horizontally flipped! Yes, I used to work for Hoyt's (another theater since closed down) and I know there are some good managers in the company. I've always gotten along with Ed Marcolini. It's just that one particular theater seemed disrespectful to their employees. There were a few "cool" supervisors. But charging $8.00 a ticket and only paying $6.50 an hour for running 12 Christies AND doing the checks, etc. seemed degrading for a position which once, under union (Hoyt's is non-union, at least where I've been) and licensing, paid $10.00 plus/hr. for only two projectors or so. Peace?
Posted by Chris Rhode (Member # 448) on 05-17-2000, 08:53 PM:
Kyle I know exactly where you are coming from. The theater where I work at has the same problem. We were trying to get some fresh faces in projection (as per managers request... they want people cross-trained.) One of the "kids" drew 2 BIG red circles on a platter while it was spinning with his red sharpie marker. When confronted he said, "I didn't draw any red circles." I said, "You were the only one up there with a red marker," to which he replied, "oh. Those red circles, those were an accident." AN ACCIDENT?!? HOW CAN YOU TAKE A RED MARKER AND DRAW 2 BIG RED CIRCLES ON THE PLATTER ON ACCIDENT?!! He was 16 or 17 so that was a contributing factor. We no longer take people who are under 18 up there. It is the fact that the people just treat this job as getting more money than people who work down stairs. We make 6.50 as well (I make 6.75 because I am the supervisor.) The chain that I work for just pisses me off in general (I work for a chain that begins with the first letter of the alphabet.) I was thinking about going to muvico, but I am not sure. Does anybody out there know anything about them??Kyle, just hang in there. Sooner or later you will run into someone who actually gives a crap about the job. I have one person in mind at my theater but we can't put him up in projection because we can't afford it.
Thank you for letting me whine.
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Chris Rhode
chrisrhode@hotmail.com
My reputation preceeds me..... in fact, it arrived about 45 years ago!
Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 05-17-2000, 10:29 PM:
One time i heard of a kid in a cinemark in some foreign state who was horseplaying near a platter with a large 44oz. coke in his hand. Can you guess wwhat happened next? uh-oh he spilleed the whole drink onto a running movie. Big mistake that one?
Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 05-17-2000, 11:19 PM:
Speaking of "Kids" in the booth: At a theatre I used to work in we needed another projectionist and the manager suggested hiring a teenager claiming that a teenager would be more motivated. Instead we hired a 46 year-old "kid" and trained him from scratch. He quickly became a very good projectionist and is now the head operator at that theatre. And he is now in the process of training a 60 year-old "kid" from scratch. But I agree that age doesn't really matter. The real problem is that the employers don't treat projection as a professional job and that makes it harder for people (young and old) to get motivated.