Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Video question for Ian Price

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Posted by Charles Lubner (Member # 157) on 05-11-2000, 01:36 AM:

Ian, I am told you were a top notch video wall technician before you became a theatre owner. I need some advice on my 2 lobby video montitors which play VHS movie trailers. First, the output is a looping vcr with a coax cable, somewhat thicker than the average house cable. TV 1 is then wired to TV 2 via coax. Both televisions have a funky green glow to them which I cannot fix with the color/contrast/tint controls. It is most noticeable during scenes that should be blue. Also, TV 1 has noticeable scrolling static in the picture, like bad reception. TV 2 has ghosting. These TV's are not very old, maybe 5 years. I'm thinking that the greenish glow might be from a magnetic interference source, but I don't know what. Any help you or anyone else can give would be appreciated!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-11-2000, 05:44 AM:

Charles:

If possible, don't use the RF (coaxial) output of the VCR to feed the monitors. You'll get much better quality using composite video and line level audio (RCA plugs). Using composite video should really help the "static" and "ghosting".

When the monitors are fed "video black level", do you see the "funky green glow"? If so, the internal bias settings on the CRT probably need adjusting. Some older monitors had screwdriver-adjustable pots on the back to set the gains and screen voltages to get neutral blacks and whites. Don't adjust them unless you know what you are doing.

Magnetic interference usually causes a color purity problem, visible as uneven color on saturated colors (e.g., with a red screen, you see "blotches" of other colors). If the monitor's internal degausing coils are not doing an adequate job of demagnetizing the CRT, buy a TV degausing coil at Radio Shack to do it manually.

If you see color fringes on lettering or the edges of objects, you may need to have the convergence adjusted.

You're not alone in having poor video presentation. I almost never see a decent quality picture on commercial large-screen or video wall presentations, as theatres and sports bars just don't seem to have the time or money to maintain them properly. Contrary to the hype, maintaining good video presentation in a commercial setting takes real knowledge and effort.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-11-2000, 05:56 AM:

HA HA HA!

Who'da thought Mr. Kodak himself would be so knowlegeable in VIDEO? That's too funny. Kudos yet again to John!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-11-2000, 06:12 AM:

Thanks Brad.

"Mr. Kodak" does have a degree in Electronic Engineering, worked both as a projectionist and an electronic service technician, and has a pretty decent home audio/video system with DVD and projection video.

Posted by Kyle Smith (Member # 177) on 05-11-2000, 08:40 AM:

Hi, everyone! I've been following this forum for awhile now and have finally joined myself. I'm a projectionist at two cinemas: a 12 plex and a twin art cinema. I'm also a video producer/technician. John's suggestions are great. It would even be better if your VCR/Monitor combo had S-Video capability. The S-Video cable separates the luminance/chrominance (Y/C) information. Also, make sure you're not oversaturating your colors, especially reds. Make sure the monitors are placed a suitable distance from audio speakers, if you are using them (I hope so).

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-11-2000, 02:20 PM:

Why stop at S-Video? Just use the component outputs of your VCR! I'm sure that John uses the component outputs of his DVD player to his projector. If your VHS VCR doesn't have component outputs, then it should!

VHS RULEZ!!!!!!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-11-2000, 02:41 PM:

I made the assumption that Charles' VCR was a typical consumer model with only RF and composite video output. No indication that it was a S-VHS or professional model.

Joe, what model of VCR do you have that has component output? The quality of a standard VHS tape can't look that much better using component, since it is so bad to begin with.

Sure, I use component output from my DVD.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-11-2000, 02:49 PM:

Wait, wait, wait just a second there John. You've got a home theater with DVD and projection video. Ok, I can understand that...but no 70mm??? This is not good. How have you lived without it???

Anyone have a spare 35/70 machine we can set up for Mr. Pytlak? Perhaps we could start taking donations ala "the charity to build a film screening room for the Kodak man".

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-11-2000, 03:01 PM:

My wife TOLERATES my A/V system, and how I like to "put the pedal to the metal" with it. I'd be thrown out of the house, along with the AA-II or JJ I'd like to have at home.

BTW, I bought a pair of AA-II's from the Riviera Theatre in Rochester before it was torn down. They now happily reside in Kodak's 2200 seat "Theater on the Ridge", and are used for employee movie nights. Unfortunately, the last 70mm print we screened was "Far and Away".

We've just installed a new 25 X 63 foot Harkness Hall screen, and use this huge theatre as a laboratory to develop new technology to "Enhance the Theatrical Experience". The theatre was just used for the annual Kodak stockholder's meeting yesterday, May 10.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-11-2000, 03:35 PM:

I understand Universal did not save a single print in 70mm of Far and Away. Assuming that info is indeed correct, HOW FOOLISH IS THAT!?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-11-2000, 03:37 PM:

Hey Ian.......seems like everyone is here but yourself. Its always glad to hear that someone else besides myself gave the video the boot. I did too back in the early 80's from broadcast tv. I too have my DVD and DTV but still prefer watching film over video anyday. I will never change in that department either.
Mark

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 05-11-2000, 07:32 PM:

Ta Da! Here I am.

What a night. My Projectionist called in sick. My concessionist called in sick, and Ky called in sick. So we are doing a Thursday night changeover with just two people in the theatre. However, it is slow enough to answer this question.

First off, one should never use VHS for a repeating video display. The tape wears out in about 25 passes. We always tried to use Laser Disc or DVD.

Secondly, you should use the highest quality signal line available, whether that's composite or S-video or component.

Lecture over! I assume you don't want to rip it out and start over. Nor do you want to throw oodles of money at it.

I have had to run RF and learn to love it. You can use the TV speakers and not run an amp and separate speakers. Go to Radio Shack and buy an RF Amp / Splitter(about $35). Install it right in the back of the VCR. See if that reduces some of you problems. Bring in another VCR from home and try it out. The fist one may have a problem.

The interference you see on the second TV may be reduced somewhat by the Amp. Try to move the signal cable to a different location to lessen the interference. If you can, run a second video line from the Amp / Splitter to the second TV. This is called a "Home Run" wire. All wires should be "Home Run" instead of in a loop. Surround wires included.

If all else fails, and you can't fix it, feature it.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 05-12-2000, 12:17 AM:

P.S. Five years is about all you will get out of a CRT or TV that is on for 12 hours per day. That's a little fact that seems to be skipped over during the sales pitch. Then five years later the video technician gets to hear, "What do you mean, I have to replace my video wall? I paid $50,000 for it!" I wouldn't count on more than five years out of a video projector either. However, I know of some Brenkert film projectors, happily motoring along after 50 years of continuous use.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-12-2000, 03:37 AM:

John Pytlak wrote...: "Unfortunately, the last 70mm print we screened was "Far and Away".

Read that any way you wish...

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-12-2000, 04:25 AM:

John (Pytlak)-

I went into Sears the other day and asked the seedy salesman "I need a VCR for my bathroom, so I can watch high quality VHS movies from high quality places like Blockbuster while I'm doing my business." The salesperson said "No problem, this unit is on sale today for only $99!" It was a great price. The VCR is made by Emerson. It has component video output(s), Dolby Digital out (they found a way to record and compress it to the linear track), S-Video, composite, RF, and even twin lead outputs! The unit kicks ass! It won't play S-VHS tapes. But boy, those rental tapes from Blockbuster sure look good! I didn't think VHS could get any better! Why would anyone need 70mm when they can have VHS for cheap and RENT the movies?

Of course, I am kidding!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-12-2000, 05:52 AM:

At one of the ShoWest panel discussions on electronic cinema, an exhibitor asked about the cost of maintaining the server that would be required for a multiplex theatre. The answer from the panel expert was that it would be more cost-effective to replace the server if it failed after a few years, than try to repair it.

Does anyone know the "street price" of the 40Gb Q-Bit units being used for the TI/Disney tests?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-12-2000, 06:17 AM:

Mr. Wilson:

I personally enjoyed "Far and Away". Ron Howard's decision to shoot it in 65mm was a good one. Look at the "land rush" scenes in a 70mm print, and the detail and sharpness are awesome. The picture quality and sound in that film were not the issue with critics.

It's frustrating to have a huge screen equipped for 70mm, and not be able to get prints.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-12-2000, 06:39 AM:

Mr Pytlak:

The picture and sound quality was not the issue with me either. This unfortunately was a boring, poorly scripted gift wrapped in gold paper.

It's just sad that a half decent movie may have seen a resurgence in the format...but as we have seen, this wasn't to be 'cos this wasn't a half decent movie.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-12-2000, 06:49 AM:

I don't know what the Q-bit goes for, but I do know this: at work, we just purchased a new Network Appliance server, which is basically a big RAID array with a network interface; it does nothing but NFS (Unix file service) and CIFS (Windows file service). For 200-gig capacity (expandable, of course), the whole deal was about $100k, including tape drive, UPS, rack, etc. Since a theatre probably wouldn't need the tape drive or UPS, assume about half that price for the unit itself.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-12-2000, 09:31 AM:

Scott:

I would think that a UPS would be vital to a server used for storing movies. Can you imagine 3000 angry patrons in a 20-plex on a dark and stormy Saturday night when the incoming power gets flaky and ALL the screens go down until the server and digital projectors are brought up again? Getting cheap when it comes to buying a UPS and redundancy would be foolish.

I can imagine the conversation:
Where's that network manager when you REALLY need him? We didn't hire any? You mean that skilled IT people don't work for minimum wage? Call Scott Norwood!

With the level of compression being used today, it looks like a large multiplex could be using something close to a terabyte of compressed image and sound data, plus back-up. I recall that Gordon McLeod said it took something like 8-10 hours to load the data for one movie from DVD's, so that's not your "back-up" with a riotous crowd and dark screens.

Posted by Kyle Smith (Member # 177) on 05-14-2000, 11:52 AM:

I have to agree with Ian, hopefully you're not using consumer VHS decks for your playback. You would be much better served with the DVD units, but that's a no brainer to figure out. Then of course it would be ideal to go component. Also, I have compared component Beta to S-Video out on the same monitor. S-Video, on direct output, is hardly different to the untrained eye. And regarding digital cinema, a renowned insider informed me that the industry has recently undergone it's largest expansion across the country. The "word" is that these chains are not going to shell out the cash to replace their vast array of film projection systems for the DLP systems anytime in the near future. I do, however, thinks it's inevitable (unfortunately) someday. At least trailer changes would be presumably faster. Ahhh, big deal.