Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: What in the hell is it going to take?

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2000, 02:37 AM:

Interesting that the "digital prints" of "Dinosaur" arrived at theaters on Tuesday. Even more interesting is the REAL films arrived at theaters Wednesday! Anyone know what prompted the early delivery from Technicolor?

Ok, now for the point of this thread:
Anyone else get a beat up and scratched used screening print? Even the replacement print was crap, actually to be more specific it was worse than the first rejected print...and yet it was "integrity inspected"! How can we be expected to put on a good show with a poorly mishandled used print? It is bs like this that is the reason why digital cinema will take over.

When in the HELL will Technicolor learn to SEND ALL SCREENING PRINTS BACK TO THE THEATERS THAT ORIGINALLY SCREENED THEM! (I think Technicolor must have stock in digital cinema.) A scratched print is just plain UNPLAYABLE! That's it...useless, garbage, junk...simply unplayable. Let the offending screening theaters deal with their own damaged prints, damnit! Buena Vista needs to open their eyes to the hell they have unleashed by contracting TES. How many screenings could BV have possibly done on this title, and what is the realistic odds that TWO such prints could end up on one theater...and why are they sending out prints that any good inspector should know are junk?

John, do you think Kodak might be able to make a difference with some sort of in-house training at the Technicolor depot? Do you think a little basic film handling and inspection instruction might help such things? Would they even listen?

Perhaps I could assemble a team of Film-Techers to personally visit the depot, explain and demonstrate what scratches, dirt and other damage really is so they know what to look for, and then have everyone simply slap the shit out of them for not caring.

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 05-18-2000, 03:12 AM:

Brad, are you talking about emulsion scratches? I assume we're talking about the kind of damage which even FilmGuard won't help with...

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2000, 03:17 AM:

Yes, they were emulsion scratches. But even if they were base scratches, why should I be responsible for covering up someone else's mistake?

If I get a perfect brand new print from the lab, it will go back in exactly the same condition (or better considering how dirty the current film cans are), regardless of whether I play the thing for 6 months. It is a lack of caring and a lack of respect from the fine folks at TES.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 05-18-2000, 03:18 AM:

I say if the print is too badly scratched, then don't run it! When the powers that be see "$0.00" for a boxoffice gross then maybe they will "rattle a few cages" and get a good print.

Integrity Inspected only means it was integrity inspected for the integrity of the label!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2000, 03:19 AM:

Nothing says Technicolor cares better than a dark screen.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-18-2000, 07:01 AM:

AFAIK, "Integrity Inspected" only means that they made sure all the reels were there. It is not a full inspection by rewinding and viewing.

It's unlikey that Disney paid TES do do a full inspection after only a preview screening. So I wouldn't blame TES for this one.

The sad thing is that whoever screened that print first didn't report the damage. I agree that one way to stop this would be to reroute screening prints back to the original theatres, so they have to deal with the problems they caused, or own up to it by having to request a new print.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2000, 01:41 PM:

One little correction to the situation John, the prints did not have lab defects, and most probably only played once each. Technicolor is known for sending out a brand new print for each individual performance in advance of the actual opening date. This way they can get as many used prints in the field as possible. Anyway, the defects were operator mishandling and misthreading, as is usually the case 99% of the time.

Like I said, if Technicolor cared, they would send those prints back to the theaters that originally threw them together and ripped them apart (thinking they would never see that copy again and there is no need to be careful).

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-18-2000, 03:00 PM:

Somehow we need to make it known to the studios that they don't have to pay US to do a real inspection. We're just lowly theater grunts and we do a better job than anyone at TES as a part of our STANDARD service!

TES doesn't care. I have talked to many Technicolor representatives, including a few e-mails (and a fax) with one of their Vice Presidents, and none of them could possibly have an IQ over 80. I guess it is the one place in the industry that discriminates against intelligent people. I hate to say it publicly, but TES really blows. Hmmmm.....

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 05-18-2000, 03:06 PM:

I actually by chance managed to get a TES employee to admit that integrity inspected does in fact only mean that they check to make sure that all of the reels are there, that they are either the head or the tail at the right end, depending on what end is out when they get it back.

If it doesnt say "full inspection", then you are getting a crap print. I got to the point where I was sending EVERY SINGLE PRINT BACK that had not gone through a full inspection. Now thats all my FORMER theater gets. Of course the down side is that you actually have to give a shit and take care of the print.

But what the hell do I care, you are right brad, digital is coming and these crap depot's and shit ass operators are killing the best medium for cinema.

Excuse my language, but it gets under my skin when people just stop caring. And Brad, Please let me know when you are planning your shit slapping tour of TES, I want to go.

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"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2000, 03:15 PM:

I'm thinking it should be part of a future Joe's This Blows review with all sorts of pictures and documentation of the SHITTY work Technicolor performs. What do you think Joe?

It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to charge the second scratched print to us...regardless of the fact the call was put in rejecting it 10 minutes after it arrived!

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-18-2000, 06:39 PM:

Wow Brad, you really ARE good! You can do all that damage in less than 10 minutes?

It took those other theaters about 89 minutes.

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"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage".
Indiana Jones.

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 05-18-2000, 07:14 PM:

Brad:

Naturally, I wasn't meaning to suggest that repairable damage (which this wasn't) alleviates anyone of the responsibility of what happened.

I should have mentioned this in my original post - don't get me wrong!

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-18-2000, 09:34 PM:

So, um, when's Joe going to review those super, awesome, way-cool Technicolor reels? I'm looking forward to this review with eager anticipation. (OK, I'm just bitter, since I had three of the black reels disintegrate on contact this evening...).

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-19-2000, 04:50 AM:

I'm not sure if words (and even pictures) can possibly do justice for the sheer awesomeness that IS Technicolor reels.

I'm thinking he needs to make a downloadable video on the entire TES operation.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-19-2000, 05:15 AM:

One of the vice presidents of Technicolor, Tim Maurer, said that I could not videotape the interior of the depot or even take pictures. I wonder what he is hiding?

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 05-19-2000, 05:59 AM:

The illegal aliens who inspect our prints...

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-19-2000, 07:38 AM:

Prints are almost never inspected by the film exchanges, because distributors no longer pay them for this optional service.

All incoming prints (new or used) should be inspected at the theatre before making-up onto a platter or large reels. Obvious problems like poor lab splices, torn perfs or edges, etc. can usually be found and repaired at the rewind bench. Examining the film surface under a strong specular light (e.g., a spotlight or halogen desk lamp) will usually reveal any scratches or heat damage (opalescent hot spot damage).

I highly recommend theatres having someone watch and listen to each print early in the run, to note any less obvious problems like sound drop-outs/defaults, sound sync problems, minor scratches, etc. (Find a few regular technically-minded "film buffs" who would be willing to report on a print's condition for a free admission). Report any serious damage immediately, and request a replacement reel. Keep a log for each print, noting any problems that may develop.

At the end of the run, carefully "break down" the print onto shipping reels, reattaching the leaders. As discussed in another thread, take enough pride in your work to "seal" the outer lap of each reel with an "inspection sticker" with your name and theatre, and include a copy of your print log for that print, so the next projectionist can know what to expect.

Professional pride and mutual support among projectionists is probably the best way to address the lack of print inspection by the distributors and exchanges. If we don't do it, no one else will.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-19-2000, 06:41 PM:

I'm all for a thorough inspection before screening...but it is THEIR PRINT, NOT OURS. Distributors should make sure that if they want their prints back from previews and they are not going to inspect them themselves, then those prints should go back to the theater they came from.

It is not fair that theaters should pay top dollar for scratched up prints. If they scratch them themselves, then that's their own stupid fault, but to HAVE to receive a pre-damaged print is unacceptable.

Make the theaters PAY for their damage, then we might start getting some REAL projectionists in there and not people who are professional vacuumers and part time operators of projection equipment. The bean counters will surely start looking at the bottom line more closely if they are saving $100 per week by having a candy-kid upstairs over a trained projectionist, but that $100 saving is gonna look much less attractive if there is a $2000 dollar bill to be paid every month for replacement reels.

Also, if a theater knows there is a pretty good chance that the print he is previewing will make it back to him for the season, he may take a little bit more care with it. If he knows that will never happen and he also knows that he will not be charged or even found out, he ain't gonna bother making sure that film goes around the right rollers.

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"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage".
Indiana Jones.

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 05-20-2000, 02:46 AM:

I completely fail to understand why theatres are not charged for damaged prints, particularly when they require a replacement print mid-season because the one they were supplied with has been completely destroyed and is un-runnable. In this case, it is obviously the theatre that damaged the print, so why aren't they charged?

I've even heard of cases in which multiple prints of a film were shipped to certain venues as 'backups' - clearly anticipating irreversible damage! Did these venues get charged extra for requiring extra prints?

As you say, John, if they were charged, the industry would be a very different place.

Posted by Lance C. McFetridge (Member # 95) on 05-20-2000, 07:38 AM:

Well, enough of lurking, and time to rant. I think that the whole system is in need of an over-haul. I own my theatre. And I have seen times when we will receive a print from TES on a Friday, and it is shipped by a taxi from as far away as 250 miles. That must be cost effective!!! We build the print, it is damaged so I call for a replacement reel, or print. Do I get it for the first show.....not on your life. So can I afford to have a dark screen? Can I turn paying customers away, but in the same sense, shouldn't the customer be entitled to see a flawless presentation? Who gets hurt here? I rely on Tes to deliver me a print that for all practical purposes is in good viewing condition and that is not always the case. So whose mercy am I at. Calls to the distributor go without satisfaction, Ads have been placed, people want to see the movie, small riots can occur with always the same mentality, "screw you, I will go to another theatre". And why? Because no matter how centrally located the distribution network is, I usually do not see a repacement reel or print for 1 to 2 days.
I had a pad roller in the sound head once that was out of adjustment and so the sprocket decided to try to re-perf a reel of a certain print. No amount of film guard in the world would stop the new "pricks" from sticking together. I paid for the damage, sure it hurt, and as I remember it cost somewhere around 800 bucks. Did I have a choice.........hell no. The film distrubtor simply said that if I didn't pay, no more films.
OK, so the point? Economics!!!! Until such time that we have representation in this industry that will stand up for exhibitors, we will continue to be at the mercy of Hollywood, and companies like TES. When was the last time an independant theatre was reimbursed for a print not arriving for the first show? Although we make a really good bag of popcorn, that is really not why people come in the front doors. So, we just sit there, grumbling, and as far as taking any action that we can afford? Just what would that be?
lance

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 05-20-2000, 12:48 PM:

In response to Michael's post: Interestly enough, The last several times we needed to replace bad reels on ETS prints, we were sent to the AMC Ward Parkway (Stan Durwoods baby) to get them.. Apparently, they order spare prints...

And AMC wonders why our sister theatre is beatting the crap out of Ward Parkway..