Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Media Cleaners-Price?

This is topic Media Cleaners-Price? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001025

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-25-2000, 02:33 PM:

Ok so I'm trying to get my hands on some film cleaners. I go to MTS's website to check out some prices. Am I looking at the wrong listing or DO PTR'S REALLY COST $545 AND $90 FOR EACH REPLACEMENT ROLLER!! DO KELMAR MEDIA CLEANER'S REALLY COST $655!! Replacement media is listed at $24. Is this for one roll? I certainly hope not but given the other prices I guess I wouldn't be surprised.

Christ, I'm never going to get one of these things now .

Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 05-25-2000, 03:02 PM:

in response to your post.

I have recently purchased my Kelmar Media Cleaners at NCS for about 511.00 a piece.

do you need aw3 brackets?

what will yoyu be using PTR's for?

i would also try looking in used equipment in the film handlers forum.

------------------
--"That's my story and i'm sticking to it!"--

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-25-2000, 03:22 PM:

I just checked the FPC website ( http://www.fpcfilm.com ) and 3-inch diameter 35mm PTRs are $57.15 each for the normal surface, and $58.20 for the "matte" finish. With normal care and cleaning (washing in water after each show, or carefully using adhesive tape to pull off the captured dirt), one pair of PTRs should effectively clean at least 5 million feet of print film (about 3 months cleaning 5 shows per day).

PTRs are widely used by film laboratories, film-to-video transfer labs, special venue theatres (e.g., IMAX), and theatres. As noted in other threads, they can become overloaded with debris from severely abraded film, but are very effective with normal dirt levels. Because of their cushioned soft surface and rolling contact with the film, they have very low risk of scratching film (e.g., they are used for cleaning camera original film at labs), and leave no residue on the film.

P.S. - I'm the co-inventor of PTR film cleaning. That's why I'm so enthusiastic.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-25-2000, 03:47 PM:

The prices Ethan quoted are pretty accurate. Expect $500-575 for a media cleaner and a box of pads (8 sets) is around $20-40 depending on where you buy them.

Moneywise, a media cleaner is cheaper and most people here will agree does a better job (especially ran wet with FilmGuard).

(Sorry John, had to be said. )

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-25-2000, 04:13 PM:

I already have PTR's, I was quoting the price becuase I couldn't believe it. $500??!! I can maybe understand %50 for replacement rollers, but a PTR is really not that complex. Give a break people.

As far as media cleaners go, I'm never going to see one. Not at that price anyway.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-25-2000, 04:17 PM:

Try contacting dealers such as International Cinema Equipment in Florida for used machines. Their email address is: ICECO@aol.com Speak to Steve Krams. I think their prices for used cleaners is between $100-150.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-25-2000, 06:09 PM:

Dustin, OK, I will give you a break!
I can sell you a brand new Kelmar media cleaner for 504.35 if you prepay the order. It comes with 1 platter or projector mounting bracket. Extra brackets are 57.75 and cleaning media(white) is 22.23 for a box of 8 sets. If I order 25 boxes or more the price drops quite a bit. Kelmar PTR cleaners would run you 227.15 each and do not include a mounting bracket so you have to add that price to the cleaner. I will offer this same price(cost plus 10%)to anyone here on Film-Tech. Film-Guard(highly reccomended!)is also available discounted. VISA/Mastercard also accepted but adds 3.5% to your cost.
Mark
mark@getgts.com www.getgts.com
801-485-5012-8am to 6pm M.T.

Note:8:50 PM 5/26/2000, I have just discovered that my price was not figured correctly. It should probably be a bit lower that I posted. I will double check this and make any correction to the prices I posted on Tuesday. Those that ordered film cleaners today will have their accounts credited the difference. Thanks to all that have purchased!!

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-25-2000, 06:32 PM:

Here is my problem:

1) Booth supplies (splicing tape, oil, etc.) must be ordered from Capitol City Supply
2) Projector parts must be ordered from MTS.

This is company policy. I will call or email the district office tommorrow to see if I can get around this.

Posted by Pete Lawrence (Member # 130) on 05-25-2000, 08:25 PM:

Dustin,

Tell them it's really for repairing the popcorn machine and get it out of petty cash. Hell, the suits think the customers are only there for the soda and popcorn anyway.

Seriously, I got one used Christie media cleaner (same as the Kelmar) off eBay a while back and the seller, Steven Krams at ICECO, was more than happy to sell me a second at the same price, $150. Somehow get yourself at least one media cleaner so you can use Film-Guard!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-25-2000, 09:11 PM:

Mark,

Is that price for genuine Kelmar film cleaning media or for Neumade?

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-26-2000, 01:55 AM:

Mark is quoting a brand new Kelmar media cleaner, and a pretty good price at that!

To anyone who runs across one, the older Christie FC-1 cleaners are basically the same thing as the current Kelmars, except the supply shafts have screw-on caps instead of push-on and they have no carrying handle. But they do the job just as well as the Kelmars.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-26-2000, 06:29 AM:

No matter how you do it (PTRs or a media cleaner with FilmGuard), cleaning prints during each showing is a good idea, and not really that expensive for the extra quality it gives.

At the FPC price of $57.15 per PTR, and assuming a 3-month useful life, cleaning five shows a day with a pair of rollers costs only about $0.25 (25 cents) per show. Web cleaning media and FilmGuard are likewise a good investment in on-screen quality. Unfortunately, they are not compatible: you can't use PTRs on a print treated with FilmGuard because of the oily residue.

BTW, I was never a fan of using media cleaners DRY, since there was always risk of catching an abrasive particle and scratching the print. I once saw an entire print trashed because a dry media cleaner was used to clean a print that had an accumulation of cement dust from some booth construction work. The media looked like a piece of sandpaper from the dirt it picked up, and the print had numerous scratches throughout its length.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-26-2000, 08:50 AM:

My quotes are always for Kelmar media and cleaners. Their quality is hard to beat. My offer is only for regestered Film-Tech people ,and any Film-Guard user. All others get charged twice the list price(kidding, as I don't really like the smiley face either). We also keep the Kelmar media in stock!
Mark
P.S. I've also thought about building cheapo electrically driven media cleaners specifically for Film-Guard cleaning. These would be less than half the cost of a Kelmar media cleaner. It would be run by a gear reduction motor thats wired across the projector motor.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-26-2000, 01:24 PM:

Mark FYI A motorized cleaner using media is patented by none other than Mr Joe Kelly ex UA and The Kel of Kelmar. The patent is worded to include all varieties of a motorized mechinism moving a media tape to clean film

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-26-2000, 02:14 PM:

Gord, Paulmar and RTI film cleaners and the majority of the film industry were motoring along cleaning media long before Joe Kelly may have come up with it. Whats the patent number, I'll look into it but I'd be willing to bet that its expired by now if there is one.
Thanks,
Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-26-2000, 05:32 PM:

I will dig it out but it has been renewed a few years ago. It was the basis of the UA cleaner (joe worked for UA) and it was licensed to 3M (who invented the media

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-26-2000, 08:28 PM:

Thanks Gord,
Please fax it down to me when you find it. It may not pertain to what I am planning.
801-485-4365 is the fax number.
Mark

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 11-03-2004, 08:16 AM:

It has been 1621 days since the last post.

Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 11-03-2004, 08:16 AM:

I know this is a really old post, but I have been building my own film cleaner to use with film-gaurd. At the moment I have build a prototype using normal wing nuts to hold the cores onto the shafts. It is running off a small motor to advance the media pad. Does anyone have a picture of the thumb screw used on a Kelmar cleaner?? Does it lock into the sloted end of the cores??

Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 11-03-2004, 12:11 PM:

It just uses pressure to hold the core in. The film-tech cores wern't around when Kelmar designed the cleaner, nothing locks in.

Also, Kelmar uses the film to advance the media.... no motors or electricity required.... the film spins the large outer 'roller' which gear drives the media pad advancement.

--Chris

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 11-03-2004, 04:57 PM:

to add to the above, the take-up shafts are surrounded by rubber tubes, over which a media core may be slipped when they are relaxed. the thumbscrew compresses the tube lengthwise so it bulges out and holds the core in place.

carl

Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 11-03-2004, 09:06 PM:

Ahh right, I forgot about the little rubber pieces. The cleaner I have now is an older Christie labeled cleaner. I havn't actually seen one of the 'current' models in a year or two.

The Christie unfortunately doesn't have that rubber stuff... it's pure compression on the media cores that keeps it going. Tho, the downside to the rubber was that any lubricants on the media could coat the rubber and make it slip.

--Chris