To me the main advantage of this forum over r.a.m.t. is the immediacy without waiting for the vagaries of post distribution through usenet. The downside is that a web site is under single control whereas usenet, being a distributed system, answers pretty much to no one.

So what are other peoples thoughts on this? Open, frank, uncensored discussions vs. personal fiefdom?

Let me also take this opportunity to clarify that while I vigorously and strenuously defend my position on various subjects nothing I say should be taken too personally. And no, I'm not big on using smilies.
 

AND it didn't even answer the original question!

Steve, I suggest you start learning how to use smilies. Even though you may not mean to piss others off, if you don't use them, it will be taken the wrong way.

Where IS Alan Brandt by the way?

------------------
"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage".
Indiana Jones.
 

Anything else please point out and I will clarify if I can.
 

You've GOT to use smilies on the computer. You may think you're having a normal conversation, but we can't see your facial expressions to know if you're kidding or just being sarcastic.

Let's move on, shall we?
 

I find those smilies to be extremely annoying and I don't use them. There are some things which a person believes in and NOTHING can make him change his mind. This is one of them.

I usually click that "Disable Smilies in This Post" box hoping it'll disable all smilies in a particular thread, but it never works. Now you're saying that if we don't use those things people will always take us seriously. Please!

I also have no idea what "<g>" means and I don't care. Generally, I'm not fond of any Internet-inspired abbreviations. I also can't stand when people use abbreviations to discuss movies. For several days last year, I wondered which movie people were discussing when I saw TWINE mentioned on the Internet (It turned out to be a James Bond movie).

I hate it when Steven Spielberg talks about his movies and never uses the full title. He talks about "Jurassic" or "Empire" or "41" and I'm surprised he doesn't refer to Hook as "H" or something. Come on! If you wanted the movie to be called "41" why didn't you just call it that? I'd love to listen to a conversation between George Lucas and Steven Spielberg in which the two were talking about "Empire" and confusing each other.

Okay... that's my rant (without any graphical icons to help you figure it out). And, by the way, my first name isn't "Gregory" either because my parents knew they'd never call me that.
 

But, really, I sort of agree with both John W. and Steve K. Postings should have _something_ to more clearly indicate the writer intent (such as smilies but it could be other things)
_and_
readers should sort of mentally include the statement, "In my opinion" at the end of a posting, and not get too wrapped up.
Pretty wishy-washy opinion, I know, but...!

Actually, I thought the "Frames" thread had gotten unstuck from the, "chop/don't chop" topic to a more constructive, "how to mark reels" topic. But, Brad's done a great job running (and creating) the whole site, which takes time and money to run- and no advertising. If he feels its time to mellow out, OK. There are always topics worth arguing over- I'm sure we'll find another one!
 

If you've got a problem with the way Brad moderates his forum, why don't you just leave. No one is forcing you to be here. If this was my forum, I would have banned you from posting already. Film-tech is a great web site and service to the industry, and as I understand it, Brad funds everything here out of his own pocket, all of this, at no cost to us. I can't believe you're complaining about censorship. All he did was close a thread that was going nowhere and was angering people thanks to you. If anyone needs to lighten up and not take things so seriously, it is you.
 

------------------
The man with the magic hands.
 

Now, as for my disagreement with Brad over that one thread perhaps you folks are the ones taking things a bit too seriously. This is a good site and if I didn't think so I wouldn't be here. Surely I can have a disagreement with the man without invalidating that basic opinion.

Finally, I would be most appreciative if someone would point out one of my prior posts in "that thread" where they think I was too rude or whatever it is that many of you seem to think was wrong or inappropriate, etc. When I look back over them myself all I see is a vigorous defense of my position, but maybe I can't see the forest for the trees. I shall keep an open mind but so far I don't see what the fuss is about. Please enlighten. Someone ought to be able to back up their opinion with a quote or two.
 

Oh, this is too good, I'm rolling!

------------------
Better Projection Pays!
 

1 This is Mr Millers site he owns it and as such has the right to control it and in some senses has a legal obligation to moderate it
2 Other threads have been closed do to members becomeing offended by one persons comments and that is Mr Millers option
3 As for resume's I have sujjested a members directory that info could be filed in
4 Every one does things differently and in different fashions. All one has to do is look at the Guttag/Miller or the Mcleod/Allen threads to see the debate and it has always been non personal and proffesional which i must add was not the case on RAMT when Mr Derrick of panastereo was basically attacked by comments by yourself when the views of some highly respected engineers conflicted with yours
4 This forum isn't a soapbox
5 lighten up (smile a little)
 

------------------
The man with the magic hands.
 

Dwayne,
You're right; I blew it. I saw the titles, presumed they meant something and gave Brad some background towards what I thought was a more descriptive title. But like I said, in absence of information to the contrary I don't think it was a huge leap. As for posting a description of the contents of private email without prior consent, I can't say I agree with that, but what's done is done. I will forever hold my head in shame amongst you all because I misconstrued those labels. Do I need to put a smilie here for you get the sarcasm? If so then I am amazed Jonathon Swift was able to write "A Modest Proposal" without them. (If you've forgotten it was about solving starvation by eating children!)
 

In response to your email, I would normally never do that, but my lack of respect for you is quickly dwindling due to your rantings with no hint whatsoever of when you are making a joke, being sarcastic or dead serious. If you are going to continue to come on here and put up fights (which you have done every day since you joined up), then I will have no qualms whatsoever about making you the poster boy for banning from the site.

Just ease up a bit please and consider smiling occasionally. I have not gone in and "censored" anything here, despite what you are attempting to make other forum members believe. All I have done is closed a thread that was turning into a rant and was offending people. I am now more insulted that you are trying to brand me as a censor of free speech, just because I put an end to such offensive remarks. That is what a "moderator" is for! Again, I never "censored" anything you have said here and this will be the absolute last time I am going to ask you nicely to lighten up a bit. If you are not intending to offend and are inclined to make an attempt to keep peace here, you can get the instructions on how to use the smilies at the "faq" link at the top of this screen. Of course you are not required to use the smileys, but most people will thank you for it and will help prevent any misconstruing of your posts if you do.

I'm sure you don't mean to suggest that anytime someone has a technical disagreement with someone that they must couch it in levity (re: the smilies, in print or just inferred). I'm not joking when I state my opinion just as I'm sure you aren't about yours. I can argue with you about it and you can argue with me and neither of us needs to make his opinion all light and breezy and happy. People disagree. No big deal. Nothing to get offended about even when opinions are stated straight away without lightening them.

>If you are going to continue to come on here and put up fights

As I've indicated I feel I am just defending a position. One reason I don't use smilies is because they tend to make it look like a joke. If I state an opinion--unless it's so broadly sarcastic as to be obvious to all--it's not a joke and I hesitate to make it look that way. But still no reason for anyone to take offense.

>just because I put an end to such offensive remarks

Such as? Quote some back to me. Please. I would like nothing better than to be able to say, ok Brad, I see what you mean; that went too far. But as I have been saying, when I look at what I've said I only see a strong opinion being voiced. You and several others have taken offense and I'm not sure to what. Hence my repeated request for some examples.
Maybe if one is thrown in my face I will agree with you about this. Maybe not. But I cannot say because no one is providing a specific example. "Offensive remarks" is a fairly serious charge and so is being on the verge of banning someone so surely you provide an example. That would only be fair.

I'm just trying to clarify my position and understand yours. Thank you.
 

Oh! _THAT'S_ why your name sounded familiar! Yes, I remember that 'friendly' exchange. It wasn't pretty.

Ray Derrick was in to align all our cinemas last Wednesday and Thursday and let me tell you now, these cinemas have _NEVER_ sounded better! The man deserves all the acclaim one could bestow upon anyone.

------------------
"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage".
Indiana Jones.

The question came up about using an EX (3-channel matrixed surround) decoder on non-EX films. I stated that it would cause the surround to bunch up at center rear. He stated that his EX unit (Panastereo) worked differently than Dolby's and would not do that. I think I probably stated that since Dolby's equipment is used to make the track (usually) their standard ought to be adhered to.

What followed was a debate about whether we should try to present a film exactly as the filmmakers heard it on the mixing stage as best we can (my side) or whether to try to make it even better if we can (his side). I think that's a fair representation of both opposing viewpoints. It still would make for a lively debate--but not in this thread please!
 

Quote from Steve Kraus smarting off in an obviously "you're a moron" tone towards myself:
"Well, since it would take lengthy rounds at SMPTE and the film labs to get them to print an ID frame into the leader we could simply have filmmakers leave an extra frame at each end of the reel, contiguous with the existing first and last shot, thus eliminating a lot of awkward extra negative cutting. Oops, how silly of me! That's what they do now!"

Quote from Steve Kraus toward Mark Gulbrandsen implying more "you are a moron" on dailies:
As for dailies, Mark all that fresh mountain air is getting to you. The editors don't put cue marks on dailies rolls! You run until you see it go to leader, roll, and change right over. Let me send you a bag of smog so you will regain your faculties!"

Quote from Steve Kraus toward Dwayne Caldwell yet again smarting off as if he is too superior to have to sink to standard internet expressions when Dwayne was only trying to offer a suggestion:
"I will forever hold my head in shame amongst you all because I misconstrued those labels. Do I need to put a smilie here for you to get the sarcasm?"

And of course there is this entire thread in which you have simply thrown a little temper tantrum because I put a stop to a ranting and offensive thread. This whole thread here was obviously started as a direct attack on me over the way I run this PRIVATE SITE which is PRIVATELY OWNED and PRIVATELY FUNDED...and for no other reason. The day I make this a paid "membership" site, you can complain all you want about the way I run it and there will be no moderator of any sort. I'll even name it www.stevescinemabitchfestcentral.com just for you, because that is exactly what it will turn into. Until then, you are always free to leave. I, nor is anyone else forcing you to be here.

There are more examples, but I will not continue to patronize you further on this subject.

I think the only other thing you have left to say on this forum is an apology. If you don't feel you should offer that, just let me know and I'll be happy to take care of this on my end. I'm done with this issue.

 

... see?
 

Stephen

------------------

 

Bye, bye.
 

PFUHHH! PFUHHH! --tap tap tap--

Hello?

(sorry Tim)

Everybody breath in and smell the fresh air.

Instead of talking about other people, I'm going to talk about myself. This way,I hope people will understand my point without taking personal offense.

Many people who know me (electronically AND personally) might say that I'm a non-stop talker and will often take an issue to "extremes" during a conversation. I might get off on a tangent or say things that people think are silly or strange. It's often hard to tell if I'm really serious, sometimes. From time to time, I say REALLY offensive things without thinking. It's not on purpose but other people don't know that. After a while, most people just say to themselves, "Oh! There goes Randy again.", and blow it off.

Problem is that talking on the internet is so "impersonal" that it's easy for me to say things without fear of criticism. One time, a while back, I said (on this forum) that some people who worked for a certain company might be "Dumb as rocks." To me, it was clearly a funny joke. I got a private response from a guy who worked for that company and he was not very happy! After listening to him I realized that there are some things I say that piss people off even if I don't mean it. I have to learn how to think twice before I say some things.

Since that time I try to make sure I say things clearly. Often, you will see me write things like, "correct me if I'm wrong", or "I understand <the subject> is/are...". It's my way of saying things in a way that won't make people think I'm attacking them. Of course I realize this is the "real world" and you can't live your entire life trying not to offend everyone. Some people just won't be satisfied no matter what you say. At least when somebody DOES get upset with me, I can be reasonably sure it's THEIR problem, not mine.

As far as ME being offended by something OTHER PEOPLE said on this forum... There has only been once. It was VERY minor. We "settled out-of-court", so to speak. The other person might not have known that I was upset.

Thanks for listening to me do the "12 Step" thing. (Hint) I hope I didn't come off as being too wishy-washy.
(And if you don't like it, GO TAKE A FLYING LEAP! )
 

As "Father Kurt" says; "Ho-hum."
 

I'm fairly new to your site, and have only posted several times. I do enjoy it very much and find in extremely informative. I was disapointed that the site about leaving a frame on the leader and tail was discontinued, as I had just completed reading all the listings and had wanted to make a comment. Yes, I agree...it had been beaten to death and was probably going nowhere at this point....but there was one thing that I found missing, unless I missed it somewhere (there was a lot to read). First though, before I get to that, let me inform you that I have been a projectionist for over thirty years and was trained by the union when it was required to serve a six month apprenticeship before taking the state exam. I was taught to leave one frame by them.
During the past week or so, while following this forum, I made it a point to contact all the old timers (projectionists) around here to see if anyone knew how to identify the proper leaders and tails to the proper reels using the soundtrack and film edge. Some of these guys have operated for up to sixty years and not one of them ever heard of your method. I think of myself as a good projectionist, and have trained many others over the years myself. Now I wonder how I missed this. No one ever taught me, so I couldn't teach anyone else your secret. If you are the worlds greatest projectionist as you seem to want us to believe, and are truly concerned about how film is handled and presented....and realize that virtually none of us have had the proper training to be able to identify the correct leaders and tails...WHY DON'T YOU TELL US HOW TO DO IT? You will have served the industry well by doing that, and had you done it at the beginning, maybe the forum would not have run on so long.

Even after thirty years, I'm still willing to learn more, to help improve the show!
 

Second, many other operators I know of can do the reading the optical track/edgemarking trick, so perhaps it is just your part of the country or local that the tricks never circulated around. That being the case, then your request is indeed a fantastic idea for the projectionist community!

Third I would be much more happy to demonstrate tricks online without the Kraus-like sarcasm in the future...but nonetheless I will work on getting some pictures together and try to figure out a way to explain online how this is done in the tips section. I do have many things going on at the present time, so please don't expect me to drop everything and get this done immediately. Please be patient, as there are several other site items already ahead of this one on the "to do" list and all take a good amount of time.
 

In situations like this, I always yield to the guy with the kill switch.

------------------
Better Projection Pays!
 

------------------
Better Projection Pays!

Actually, if someone feels offended by inferrence, contact that person via email for clarification. More often than not, offense was not the goal or intent.

I, for the life of me, can not understand how this has gotten blown out the way it has. I will say it has been unpleasent reading in some parts and informative in others, thank god.

If you all don't watch out, I'm gonna start a thread on "HPS-4000, better with or without an ID frame!"

Steve (the other one)

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 

-AS

 

I look forward to talking with all of you in future threads!

Chris Williams
Regal Bella Bottega 11 Cinemas
Redmond, WA

 

Now Mr. Kraus has taken it upon himself to spam this site for email addresses and has sent out emails over it to many forum members in an attempt to turn everyone against me. Well, if anyone is offended at the way I handled the situation regardless of just how much of the info you have on the subject, you are free to leave. I took action because there were other forum members who contacted me, as well as myself, who were offended at Mr. Kraus' remarks and that is that. I do not force anyone to be here and work extremely hard and spend quite a lot of money keeping this site up and running. Sure I could easily go out and get banner ads and program in those annoying popups to make back that money through advertising, but I feel the service I am offering here is worth the cash out of my pocket every month.

I am not against Mr. Kraus having a differing opinion of my own. If that was the case, I would've banned Steve Guttag the first day...but Steve G. is in my opinion a benefit to all on this site with his expertise. (For those who do not follow all the threads, Steve G. and I like to "fight" the old platter vs. changeover thing virtually every few months. However, we make it clear by the use of expressions that we are only teasing. ) I have no doubt Mr. Kraus is also an excellent operator, but if I am going to have to deal with his rantings on a daily basis (yes, every single day since he signed up), then no one on this planet is worth that amount of effort to me.

Mr. Kraus has apparently decided that since someone has a differing opinion than his own (mine in particular) that he will stop at nothing until I admit I am wrong and beg for his forgiveness. At least that's the way I perceive it because he created this "censorship" thread after I closed the "ID frame" thread (which was turning into a rant and was going nowhere) in which he has simply moved the rantings from that thread onto this thread. Now Mr. Kraus has commenced email spamming above to an unknown amount of members here and finally, started this entire argument again over on a newsgroup! This is just completely taking it too far. Not once did he bother to send me an email during all of this, he just decided to "get even" like an immature child. The man has rubbed me the wrong way too much at this point and I will stand my ground.

Mr. Kraus, please grow up a bit and remember, it's just a web site. Your life is not over, and also remember that the newsgroup is "unmoderated" so you can rant over there until your heart is content.

I would hope we can all get back to productive discussions now. I am closing this thread in an attempt to put an end to this nonsense. If anyone has something else to say on this issue, please email me.