1. What does the role of humidity play in the VS process? Will just being subjected to humidity for a period of time jump start the VS process in a brand new Tri-acetate film?
2. Is there certain film stocks that have more of a chance of getting VS?
3. What procautions should be taken to keep the film from starting VS?
4. Is it true that Estar film won't Vinegar or is it too early to tell?
5. If the film is caught early enough is there anyway to counteract the VS?
6. Can other films start the VS process from sitting next to a print that's already gone bad?
And finally,
7. Are there smells that come close to smelling like VS but that don't do any damage?
Any suggestions on how to properly store prints and what tempeture and humidity levels should the room be? Right now, I'm storing my films upright in tin film cans. I know I should be storing VS films open so they air out but I'm using molecular sieves in the cans. Thanks for your help
Bernie
"Is it true that Estar film won't Vinegar or is it too early to tell?"
Polyestar film, being made of petrochemicals rather than cellulose acetate cannot develop vinegar syndrome as there is no acetic acid in the film's chemical composition. In a VERY long time (probably longer that most of us will be alive), however under the right (wrong?) conditions, polyestar film may get unstable and turn back into the petroleum by-products it came from...
Aaron
Get them out of those tin cans. Also, make sure you separate any suspected prints from your good ones as soon as you can.
If you want to ask guys that deal with this everyday go to the 16mm forum at www.historyinacan.com
Good luck.
You mean to get the VS prints out of the can? Is it okay for the good prints to be in the cans?
Bernie
Mr. Jacobsen has several articles, parts of which are included in the above article, on vinegar syndrome at his web site.
http://www.dancan.dk
No. I have never seen vinegar Kodachrome.
I have a couple of hundred Kodachrome 16mm films of my family and friends that date back to the late 30's. Other than damage inflicted by an old KODAK silent projector, they are in fine shape. They have not been in cans for about 25 years. I wind through them yearly.
I also have some 8mm color films from the mid 60's that are also OK. All processed by E-K.
In the same room I had nearly 100 collected titles go vinegar, some as new as 1984.
I think it is all in the processing quality.
DeLuxe sucks big 'uns, IMHO...
"I purchased a trailer last month. The trailer was from 1965 and it didn't seem to be treated at all. It seems to me that it smells slighlt like VS. And the film came from Florida"
-----
you didn't happen to buy this from jason Lindroth on eBay did you? your story sounded a lot like mine, and i checked my emails from him and he was indeed from Florida. in his eBay add, he claimed the trailer i bought ("the magic voyage of sinbad") to be in excellent condition, but it stank of VS and was really really red. i emailed him and he appologized, claiming to know nothing of film, and asked me how much he should refund me. i got the trailer for half price. More eBayers should be like him (easy to deal with, not unknowledged
jasoN
------------------
"That's what life is - a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of muppets." -Dante Hicks
okay, here's something that people I've talked to can't answer. Example: Let's take a trailer reel, if I were to put my stinky trailer that I bought on a reel next to a film that had gone through a good process and is clean of any smell, would the stinky film jump start VS in the good print? Or...would it start to decompose from the acid odors from the VS film. I guess what I'm trying to say in a long winded way is, once that good film comes in contact with the VS film, will the good film now become VS?
Bernie
I recommend storing in cardboard boxes (never store in cans) in a climate controlled environment, keep the VS prints separated from the good prints, and you shouldn't have a problem.
I'm not sure, I can't find a copy of the letter I sent but if it's the guy who was this paragraph about the film being in a collection for the past 30 years and has a generic picture of a trailer with an old NSS band then it's him. I think he even sent it out when he got the check, because of my rating he didn't need to wait for the check to clear. It wasn't a big deal it was cheap. But it ticks me off, it's IB tech and a long trailer in really good shape and the only thing is the VS. At first it didn't smell but I ran it once and then when I put it back on the core it was a little stinky. It's not bad as the one other film I have but it's there. It's funny, I would have thought that I would have smelt it when I opened the box but it seemed fine. I'm gonna give Filmguard a shot. Everyone's talked about how good it is, why not? Anything's worth a shot.
Bernie
To throw a cat among the pigeons.....Nitrate has the best track record of survival. I still have some pre 1920 stuff that is perfect, anyone have safety or polyestar that is older to argue the point!
David
You guys should check out the second site that Jeff Johnson posted, it's pretty informative but scray at the same time.
Bernie
As for processing, I know the histories of some of my films. Most were bought between 1972-1986.
I have films from WRS lab that look OK and are not stinking.
I just sold a feature from 1977 that had turned brown that Movielab in NYC did. It was not stinky either.
Foto-Kem prints are OK smelling, and have fair color.
DeLuxe prints are red and smelly. I chucked several about 3 months ago.
MGM Labs prints generally turn brownish colored. No vinegar yet. I have a 1971 35mm print by MGM that still looks nice, though slightly discolored, and no smell.
I only mentioned these labs because the prints I bought were brand new at the time.
The TV companies used to treat their prints with something that was so strong that it would bleach the ink off of the labels. Some of my IB prints were treated, and one is beginning to smell. My 35mm IB stuff is untreated and has no smell.
I have a Technicolor lab print of a 1983 LPP feature that is reeking from vinegar. I try to run it regularly.
It came from a depot in Dallas and my guess is that it was a hothouse.
Does anybody reading this know if Anscocolor eventually fades? I have a 1947 print of a 1935 cartoon on Ansco stock. The color is beautiful even compared to a print I saw recently on Cartoon Network.
I believe Anscocolor was simply the Agfacolor dye-coupling process renamed when it was used in the US after the War.
Leo
------------------
It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com