This is topic dts and SRD tags in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-28-2000, 03:34 AM:
Now that our sound is up to scratch, new tags have been approved.Has anyone bought any new ones lately? What're the current versions and prices? Do they give new ones away free then if you want more you buy them?
What about dts? What's the sonic landscape like?
Also, if anyone has an old Simpsons THX tag, I would love to take it off your hands if you no longer need it. (That last request is not for the theater, that one's for me 
)
TURN IT UP! TURN IT UP! 
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"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage".
Indiana Jones.
Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 05-28-2000, 05:52 AM:
We're running the SRD "Canyon" trailer (I think) --- it leaves much to be desired. I liked the Train and the City much better... gave you that feeling of excitement right before the show went on. This one is kinda flat and makes you think "Ehhhh..?"C'est la vie.
I need to get my projectionist to put on my SDDS and DTS logos... (although I'm sure they're scratched to high heaven -- been passed down from theatre to theatre.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-28-2000, 07:30 AM:
This is from memory:
There are at least two DTS tags--the original "flying disc" version (is this still available?) and the new "sonic landscape" version. "Flying disc" is a bit dated, since many theatres have been running it since "Jurassic Park" came out. I really like "sonic landscape," personally; it's a tad subtle on the sound side, but the visuals are nice and it works well with just about any type of film.
The latest SRD tags are "aurora" and "rain." "Aurora" is EX-encoded, but doesn't say EX. I believe that the same is true of "rain." I really like "Aurora," since it's perfect for any sort of sci-fi movie.
Older SRD tags include "city" (which is great for action films), "egypt," "canyon," "train" (of which there are two versions...the original one is much better IMHO), and one or two others that I can't remember right now.
Are the new SDDS trailers still using only Dolby A on the optical track?
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 05-28-2000, 12:20 PM:
Scott Neff said:
"I need to get my projectionist to put on my SDDS and DTS logos..."I just hope they *remove* them when they move the print from DTS or SDDS houses to the Dolby Digital screens and vice versa, I bet they won't... and before you say it... YES it DOES matter if the film is playing in the advertised format or not...
Aaron
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-28-2000, 05:03 PM:
Dolby's "Aurora" is cool. Rain is dumb. It sounds like it was recorded at 11025Hz! It is also very wishy-washy like a poorly encoded 128-kbps MP3 file. It's really bad. Only the little "ding" at the end comes from the EX channel. I don't like Dolby's new soundmark jingle. They could have come up with something much better. Canyon and Egypt (and Temple which is SR only) are very boring. There is no animation, only the camera moves. And they sound like 22050Hz! I'm probably pissing Dolby off by typing this (not my problem that they have bad sound logos) The City is cool and the original Train is by far the best!DTS's flying disc is extremely dated and sounds very shrill. The Sonic Landscape is short, subtle, and classy. I like it. It doesn't go for the "WOW" factor that every other digital tag goes for. I like how short it is. Many may even overlook it.
The original SDDS tag sucks ass. It had about 20 seconds of black silence at the beginning. I haven't seen any of the newer SDDS tags, but everybody tells me that they really aren't anything special.
Maybe I should review each sound logo. Officially. dating back to Henry (or is it Harry) Mancini's (did I spell that correctly?) wonderful SR trailer. Either way, it was done by the Pink Panther guy.
Posted by Nic Margherio (Member # 273) on 05-28-2000, 05:44 PM:
I still think that the original SDDS trailer was pretty cool, especially the 2nd mix with the horns. The "new" (they're now 3 years old) live action ones are OK but they don't have anything on the Dolby trailers. On top of that, I haven't been able to get any new ones for 2 years. Does anyone have a contact number at Sony? I've been getting the run-around forever and I really need some new trailers. I would appreciate it if they just told me that the didn't make/sell them anymore and that would be the end of it. Every time I call, the idiots who work for that company don't know what they're talking about, its rather irritating.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-28-2000, 06:30 PM:
I would be happy if Dolby would just junk that "B" version (I think they call it the "long" version) of their Train and go back to that magnificent "A" version!Please, please, please!!!
Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 05-28-2000, 07:37 PM:
OK, this is ever so slightly off-topic, but on DVD, the 'Canyon' and 'Egypt' trailers show themselves to be very worthy indeed. The mixes are very subtle and enveloping - almost holographic. The bass is incredibly powerful. Guests always give me a 'wow' response when I play them. 'City' and 'Train' work on a 'see how many watts and subwoofers I've got' level (which can be impressive - don't get me wrong!) but the others have impact even at lower volumes.I agree about the 'rain' trailer - apart from some good placement, the fidelity is wanting. Haven't heard 'Aurora' yet!
Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 05-28-2000, 10:49 PM:
I've ALWAYS thought it was important to make sure the sound trailer was correct.I'm in the process of training my junior projectionists to add and remove trailers... ie. policy trailers.
The good ole' union guy already knows how, but I have to REMIND him to remove an SRD trailer when it switches to an SDDS house.
Why is that? Shouldn't a UNION projectionist with 45 years experience KNOW when a trailer needs to be changed WITHOUT being told??????
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-28-2000, 11:00 PM:
OK I'll say it:Just because a projectionist is union doesn't gaurantee quality! It also doesn't mean that you suck, either.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-29-2000, 02:41 AM:
Anyone bought any lately? Prices?------------------
"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage".
Indiana Jones.
Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-29-2000, 11:27 AM:
MTS list the DTS trailers at $25 a piece. If memory serves the rest of them are about that too.
Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 05-29-2000, 04:02 PM:
When we bought the CP500, two "Rain" trailers were included with the package. The people at Dolby probably realized that "Rain" really isn't their best work, though, so they sent us "Egypt" when they got the registration form... 
And I've now managed to get hold of a used "Train" trailer to impress audiences with. It's still Dolby's best trailer.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-30-2000, 12:01 AM:
Dolby does not charge for their trailers (to my most recent knowledge). That is very cool. The current train is a shortened version of the longer original version that said "Dolby Stereo Digital" instead of just "Dolby Digital"I am not sure what DTS charges for their snipes, but I know that they do charge.
The last time I tried to get SDDS trailers (the orginials) they wanted $90 each! I kept telling them I wasn't allowed to spend that much. I finally talked them down to $10 each! That was many many years ago, and I'm not sure what they do now.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-30-2000, 02:00 AM:
It's shorter? I never actually took a stopwatch to the A and B versions, but the B versions state "Train long version" on the leaders, so I just assumed. Regardless, the B versions are very dull. It's just loud, nothing else. The A versions were incredible, but the reason I heard was they were pulled because the low frequency information was so intense that theaters kept blowing their subs. I say tough...get more subs and more power! I miss that A train! Anyone got a print of it still?
Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 05-30-2000, 02:33 AM:
Yup, I located a used "A Train" after we got the CP500. Being friends with the technical manager at the local multiplex helped. I didn't know the low frequency info was that intense. We certainly have never had trouble with it. I simply thought that someone at Dolby got bored and made "City" instead...
Posted by Mathias Andersson (Member # 169) on 05-30-2000, 08:23 AM:
We've also got the A-train trailer, but since the trailer has been used for over 5 years the digital track is getting bad.Is the B-train the same version as the one on DVD and LD (i.e. without the horn blowing)?
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-30-2000, 02:31 PM:
The B version is the one that starts off loud, continues to be loud, and ends loud. It's also got the horn blowing. Blah!The A train starts off real quiet with a little ping in each channel that makes it's way around the room and then has a nice clean WHOOSH as the train starts up. Much more powerful and far more impressive. All "loud" is boring.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-31-2000, 07:32 AM:
Don't forget that Brad has QuickTime versions of the Dolby sound logos at the end of the "Manuals" section: Canyon, City, Egypt, Rain, Temple, and Train (1st version). 
Any chance of getting versions of the other sound intros on-line for reference?
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-31-2000, 04:23 PM:
The B Train is indeed the one on the DVD and Laserdiscs.The A Train has five "clanks" in the beginning. They go: Left, Center, Right, Right Surround, Left Surround.
The B Train has only 4 "clanks". Left, Right, Right Surround, and Left Surround.
If the version you are listening to has 5 clanks, it is the original version. It also MUST say "Dolby Stereo Digital" at the end, otherwise it is NOT the original version.
I have the original version in 35mm and the low end does not seem that intense. I think that the reason they changed them was to A) make it shorter. B) Change it from "Dolby Stereo Digital" to the shortened "Dolby Digital"
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-31-2000, 04:42 PM:
By the way, the version of the Train that is downloadable from the manuals page is NOT the original version. The original version has the whistle at the beginning and is longer (and much better). The version for download is the current version, and I have not seen a different version other than the original.I will send Brad an MP3 of the original mix so he can put it on the site.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-01-2000, 01:43 AM:
Joe, You've got it backwards. Let's crack open a sealed Train trailer version B (aka: "long version") and you will see what I mean.
The version in the manuals section IS the "A" version.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-01-2000, 03:08 AM:
Ok no problem. But why would they put the "Dolby Digital" logo on the old version, but the "Dolby Stereo Digital" logo on the new version?I still have the trailer I took the sound from, and that recording was made on September 20, 1994 - Long before any new version was released. (MiniDiscs write the recording date onto the disc).
Perhaps Somebody from Dolby could give us the entire history of the TRAIN trailer, complete with running times (the original one I have is about 45 seconds). The one on the site for download is only 30 seconds.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-01-2000, 05:43 AM:
1994 is definitely "B" version. The "A" version was only available during such releases as Batman Returns and Pure Country.
Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 06-02-2000, 03:54 AM:
But the text "Dolby Stereo Digital" indicates that the trailer version is "A", yes?
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-02-2000, 04:13 AM:
Ran a recent print of the Train tonight and it was awfully similar to the original "A" mix! It wasn't the same mix (the 5 "pings" at the beginning were mixed in too loud), but it's pretty close. It had a "Dolby Digital" logo at the end and not the original "Dolby Stereo Digital" logo tag.Anyone from Dolby care to give a history lesson on what appears to be many different versions of this trailer? I'm counting 4 versions of this logo...and they are all simply called "Train"!
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-02-2000, 01:58 PM:
Actually on the one we ran last night Brad, there were only 4 pings in the beginning.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-02-2000, 02:23 PM:
joe the extra ping was probably lost with the ID frame 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-02-2000, 03:32 PM:
Funny Gordon should mention that, as it opens up an entirely new can of worms.Why won't the people who make policy trailers and sound logo trailers put extra black on the head and tails??? The SRD Train we screened last night cut in late...and we didn't even chop off the leaders!
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 06-02-2000, 07:27 PM:
Oh Gordon...Right on Brad . Hey Lab-type-people! We need _BLACK_ from the '2' onwards on all trailers and tags until the first frame of projected image appears. _BLACK_ get it?
B-L-A-C-K. Got it?...Good.
(black)
Also, to those labs who are currently printing trailers for use in Australia (and you know who you are)...could you p-uh-leeeease!!! make sure you don't start the soundtrack while the image is still in the 'this film has yet to be classified' bit at the start. These tags must eventually be cut off and replaced with the censorship tag when they are finally censored meaning you are forcing us to cut into the soundtrack which sounds very shitty... _VERY_ shitty.
So, to summarize...
1. _BLACK_ from the '2' to the first frame of projected image.
2. Don't start the soundtrack in the censor tag.
Thank you for your attention. Now you can go about your business and no doubt completely ignore these suggested improvements.
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"I heard a voice behind me say...'Reach for it, Mister'... I spun around...found myself face to face...with a six year old kid! Well I just threw my guns down, walked away... LITTLE BASTARD SHOT ME IN THE ASS!"
Gene Wilder - Blazing Saddles
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-02-2000, 08:32 PM:
Framelines would be nice...BUT GET RID OF THE DAMN EDGE MARKS THAT SHOW UP ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE SCREEN!Regardless, I want 3 feet of solid pure black before AND after the trailers. And we don't need the changeover mark right before the green band either. How tacky.
Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 06-03-2000, 03:17 PM:
But that cue mark is part of SMPTE 55, the Universal Leader standard, since it was used for television. It is not included in SMPTE 301, the Projection Leader standard. But when do any of the trailer leaders follow the SMPTE standards? None of the trailers from the major studios seem to.
As was mentioned in a now closed topic, some laboratories are not consistent in their use of the Universal standard (seconds) or the Academy standard (film feet) for placement of the changeover cue. Some labs use an Academy leader but follow the Universal standard for cue marks. That can throw off your changeover timing by six frames.