Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Open Captioned Prints

This is topic Open Captioned Prints in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001087

Posted by Joshua Lott (Member # 240) on 06-13-2000, 07:18 AM:

I just got done watching an open caption print of Erin Brockovich(sp?) and all of the reels had a lime green color of open caption except 2 reels. Those 2 reels captions were white. What causes this? Is it just replacement reels or something?

I was also wondering how do they get the captions on there? Is that something they do at the same time the picture gets put on or is it done after?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-13-2000, 07:42 AM:

The captions are usually laser-scribed on, meaning that they are put on after the picture.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 06-13-2000, 08:14 AM:

Isn't "open caption" just another way of saying "sub-titled"?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-13-2000, 08:57 AM:

Open Captions and Subtitles can be printed in several ways.

When many captioned prints are needed, a B&W negative with the captions (black letters against a clear background) is printed "bi-pack" with the picture negative and print stock on a special contact printer. The black letters hold back the exposure, leaving white letters on the final print. The extra layer of film during printing does lose some sharpness.

Chemical etch subtitles are produced by coating the emulsion of the processed print with wax. Metal type is used to emboss the wax in the areas of the letters, similar to the way mimeograph masters used to be made. The film then goes into a bleaching solution, which removes the emulsion in the areas unprotected by the wax, producing clear letters. The wax is then removed from the film.

Laser subtitles are produced by scanning a high-powered argon laser beam on the film, ablating (burning) the emulsion off with the high energy laser beam.

Chemical etch and laser subtitles can be put on used prints, such as "rejuvenated" US prints that find their way overseas. They are more cost-effective than "bi-pack" subtitles when only a few prints are needed, but for large orders, the subtitles are usually printed in.

One company that specializes in subtitling is Titra: http://www.titra.com I believe they did the work on "Erin Brockovich".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-13-2000, 09:40 AM:

I hate the laser-scribed subtitles! I've run a lot of foreign films that were titled in this way. Apparently, it's more cost-effective to do this for small print runs than to do the titles "properly" on an optical printer, but you can't focus the laser titles because they focus on a different plane from the emulsion...

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-13-2000, 09:49 AM:

Scott:

Your comment reminded me that another way of printing in titles is by using an optical printer, usually as a "burn-in" to the duplicate negative. This usually produces a high quality title that is part of the image, without the slight sharpness loss of "bi-pack" printing.

Posted by Christos Mitsakis (Member # 143) on 06-13-2000, 10:19 AM:

Scott:
The wax method that John describes is even worse in focusing. The problem is constant here simply because 95% of prints are foreign.
On the contrary I find laser subtitling less problematic and better frame oriented (NO wrong framing of 1,85:1 prints and NO stretching of the lettering during anamorphosis in a scope print since laser can squeeze the font that is beeing burned onto film.
Depending on the distributor here, you know wether a print is wax or laser subtitled. Still in the majority of the prints the wax method is used.
Christos.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-13-2000, 05:41 PM:

I haven't had any problems focusing the captions vs. the image, but I have noticed the prints selected to be "captioned" appear to be hand picked...to ensure they are of the worst quality currently available. There's nothing like inspecting an open captioned print that was originally released "non-captioned" 2 months earlier and finding over 100 half-ass done splices throughout and emulsion scratches. You'd think if there will only be a half dozen OC prints made, they would run through a few and find some in good quality that only ran for a couple of weeks as someone's 2nd or 3rd print. Of course, all OC prints come from TES, so maybe that's the problem.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-13-2000, 06:59 PM:

Brad -- a clarification: I know nothing about the "open caption" (English subtitle/English track) prints that are described here. My comments were about the laser subtitling process, which is also commonly used for producing subtitles for limited releases of foreign films. I've handled several laser-subtitled prints of foreign films which were pretty close to lab-mint/never-been-on-a-platter condition, so it's certainly possible to have a mint-condition laser-subtitled print...

Posted by timothy johnson (Member # 83) on 06-13-2000, 09:36 PM:

I had my own movie (six days in roswell 35mm print) etched my titra laser, they charge a whopping $100 per reel, and it is very very hard to read on anything bright, I just could not afford doing it the proper way, so for an indie film I see it as a cost effective way when you only have a few prints. Overall it worked well. One of the reels did have some dust left on it.

Posted by Joshua Lott (Member # 240) on 06-14-2000, 09:32 AM:

The print of Erin B. that I got was actually in the best condition that I have seen an open caption print. We are actually getting an open caption each week this summer. Just an extra movie to build/break for four shows. But it is for a good cause even if only 10 people show up.

On the terms of print condition the worst print I have ever seen is Pound Puppies that we played last year for our summer kids free film series. It had 92 splices and I don't think there was a frame of film that didn't have at least 2 or 3 different scratches.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-14-2000, 04:22 PM:

I have to agree that Erin B was the best OC'd print I have ever played. Maybe you got my print, Josh. We did FilmGuard it for the 4 shows it played.

Every other OC'd print is pure hell. It is like they only make 2 of them and they take the worst ones they can get to begin with!

Oh well, when all else fails, just blame John Pytlak.

Posted by Joseph Pandolfi (Member # 223) on 06-14-2000, 05:55 PM:

I screened "The Next Best Thing" and and reported that some of the letters were yellow and out of focus.

Posted by Sean M. Grimes (Member # 445) on 06-14-2000, 08:34 PM:

right now I am showing the open caption of MI-2 and it was in better shape then the technicolor print. Just a quick rant - if they give you a twenty four hour number to call the least they could do is put someone slightly knowledgeable on the other end? At least they kiss ass well. grrrrr.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-15-2000, 05:45 AM:

Joe P. :

Yellow-fringed laser subtitle letters usually are a sign that the laser power level wasn't sufficient to completely burn away the emulsion. On print film, the bottom image dye layer is the yellow, so it is the last to go. Getting the laser power exactly right to completely burn away the emulsion but not char or melt the base is tricky. Titra usually does a pretty good job.

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 06-16-2000, 07:23 AM:

John Pytlak says:
''Chemical etch and laser subtitles can be put on used prints, such as "rejuvenated" US
prints that find their way overseas''

My question is:
Does the prints get ''treated'' or cleaned up in any way before the subtitles are put on the prints?

After all there will always be some dirt and lines etc. on some of the prints, as not all cinemas have FG, right?

------------------
It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 06-16-2000, 07:54 AM:

Well i guess "rejuvenated" and ''treated'' is the same!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-16-2000, 08:25 AM:

"Rejuvenation" usually involves inspecting used prints by viewing them on a rewind inspection device, and choosing the best reels for reuse. New ultrasonic splices and minor perf repairs are made if necessary. The print is cleaned and minor emulsion-side scratches healed by reprocessing and drying the film in a aqueous "rewash" process like Kodak RW-1: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/operating7.shtml#rewashing )

Media, PTR, solvent or ultrasonic cleaning techniques may also be used.

Base-side scratches are "healed" by coating with a lacquer or UV-cured polymer (e.g., 3M Scotchgard Film Protector or Dacar ImageGard): http://www.3m.com/market/consumer/photogard/ http://www.dacarprod.com/www/ndatesh

Oils, silicones, and other materials (e.g., FilmGuard) on the surface of used prints can contaminate the rewash, UV-coating, or wax-etch subtitling processes.

Posted by Joshua Lott (Member # 240) on 06-19-2000, 12:50 PM:

Joe R.

I got print #5, I also ran it with Film Guard for the 4 shows it played. What print did you get?