This is topic The Novice File! in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-14-2000, 02:19 PM:
Hi, I'm new and just began my cinematic career yeaterday by re-assembling two Simplex XL's. Interesting. You really do learn something new everyday. I learned that the bottom inner mount on the pedestal is a real pain in the butt to align with an
SH-1020 sound mechanism. I also learned why you should be very careful when doing this and subsequently how to, while kneeling, save the sound mech from smashing with fully outstretched left hand! Also learned what happens when you overfill the oil bath. I wonder, is there anywhere that would show me how to thread these things with film? When are the books out Tim? Was Simplex oil the proper oil to fill with? I see now they talk about SAE 40. Is that what I think it is? Motor oil? Thank you.------------------
Dave Bird
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-14-2000, 02:34 PM:
Before you continue, you should download the XL manual from the site. That will answer most of your questions and assist you in not making a "mistake".
Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 06-14-2000, 02:47 PM:
It is my understanding that SAE 40 should only be used in soundheads equiped with their own oil fills. I do know for a fact that if you are using a thin grade motor oil in the sound head, it must be DETERGENT FREE (anymore these days most motor oils are). I agree with Brad, however, that you should download some manuals before a costly "mistake" is made 
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-14-2000, 03:28 PM:
Yes, I have downloaded the XL manual. I just
can't get my printer to give me very clear shots of the pictures, and threading. Also, I suppose because XL's were prodcuced for many years, there are a few differences. My machines were set up for upward throws (and the oil bath works fine), however the oil sight is in the front (not back as they say). So as I topped it up (through the flip
lid on the sight?????), I wasn't sure on the level. So I've had some drip out the plastic
sprocket out at the side. I assuming I filled too full. But I did use Simplex oil. The fellow I bought them from said they no longer made it, and that I'd have to use motor oil when I run out of Simplex. Thanks for your replies. This is exactly why I bought them, to learn. ------------------
Dave Bird
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 06-14-2000, 03:48 PM:
Try downloading both the Simplex XL (1960 printing) and the Simplex 35 PR-1014 (the latest version of an XL) manuals.
You can get Simplex projector and Simplex soundhead oil from any theatre equipment dealer such as Entertainment Equipment in Toronto (1-800-448-1656).
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-14-2000, 05:38 PM:
The 1960 printing of the X-L manual came from my collection; I'd be happy to send xerox copies to you if the scans aren't good enough for your purposes. Just send me your physical address and I'll send out the manual in return for the cost of shipping or a trade of xeroxes of some other manuals that I don't have.
There are several different versions of the X-L; the early ones are black in color and the new ones are sort of light grey. Apparently there was a blue-green color in between there somewhere as well.
Simplex oil is fine...be sure to use projector oil for the picture head and soundhead oil for the soundhead (duh). You can get this from your local theatre supplier.
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-14-2000, 06:25 PM:
They are the black ones. I'm afraid that I don't have much in the way of manuals, except a couple for the Strong Futura II carbon arc lamphouses. Yes, I used projector oil (though I'm afraid I did put a squirt each in the little side-valve on the soundhead). The ability to download all those manuals is fabulous, a wonderful resource, it's just my inkjet printer really "blacks-out" much of the pictures. Even if I could get an e-mail scan of proper threading for the XL / SH-1020 . My previous experience is on 8mm!!! And please let me know if anyone wants a copy of those
Futura II manuals. I had wanted to fire those old girls up, but I'm out of luck without 3-phase power. Their manuals show parameters for using the smaller carbons at lower AMPS, but it must be a "catch-all" manual for their other Strong models at that time. Thanks again.------------------
Dave Bird
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-15-2000, 07:02 AM:
Dave, I'm emailing you a picture of the rear oil sight ass'y. It will be interesting to find out if you can still get this kit from Strong. I can't imagine why your machines don't have them, since they already have the "drive-in" oil intake.At any rate, you only need enough oil to just cover the intake filter. You can look down into the gear side of the machine to determine this, if you have to.
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Better Projection Pays!
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-15-2000, 10:20 AM:
Tim, by "drive-in oil intake", do you mean the little flip top on the glass tube. Yes, they're definately at the front, and I definately did put too much oil in! Down through the little storage cabinet drip-drip-drip! What will the intake filter look like. Sorry for these basic questions, I just want to be doubly sure I don't ruin these. I did see the oil baths operate at the theatre. The machines were throwing just slightly up (5-7 degrees by my crude measurements) as the drive-in sloped downward to the screen. Thanks. What have I learned today? Remember that old theory about water (or oil) seeking it's own level?
Proof is on the garage floor. Thanks Tim, for the specs. If you had a threading diagram like this, I'd buy all your books!
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Dave Bird
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-15-2000, 02:10 PM:
Thank you Ken, I printed off the new XL (1014) manual. It's a much easier read and dang, if they aren't the same machine even today. The pictures printed much clearer too. Now I can oil 'er up and shred some film! (Trailer for Woods/Mike J. Fox in
"The Hard Way" could be my first victim!)
Shutting up now.------------------
Dave Bird
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-15-2000, 05:36 PM:
The XL projector should use SAE 10 non detergent the sound head is SAE40
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-16-2000, 01:47 PM:
Dave, I'm actually referring to the sump. It has a little fine-mesh brass screen filter at the end, sits in the oil reservoir, and is connected by a small metal tube to the oil pump. It resembles a small flat cylinder, about 1/2" in diameter.As you face the gear compartment, it should be located inside, at the bottom on the right (the intake on an indoor version would be on the left). The oil level should just cover the top of the filter.
Short of checking it visually, drain everything out, put in a few ounces of fresh oil, and turn the motor on. If the oil begins spraying pretty good and consistently on the glass, you've got enough oil in it. If it fails to spray (don't let it run more than 7 or 8 seconds with no spray), turn it off and add more until it does. Then add a l-i-t-t-l-e bit more for a margin of safety.
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Better Projection Pays!
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-17-2000, 05:53 AM:
As near as I can tell, the oil intakes are on the left. The oil pump is there and the tube goes down to a closed-top disk (the intake?) which seems to be a little bigger than 1/2 inch. The oil nearly gets over this and I'm assuming brass filter is below where I can't see it. The outdoor these machines were from sloped dramatically down from back to front, so I'm estimating the projection angle was only a few degrees upward. My manuals say that for "extreme" upward throws, the drive-in conversion kit may be necessary. Perhaps they didn't need it. The oil runs very well. What is the "whipping" noise? Is that the oil slinger?
Very cool to see it working! I'm going to download the parts manuals next, that will tell me better what I'm looking at. Thank you.------------------
Dave Bird
Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 06-17-2000, 07:22 AM:
Dave;
Sounds like you're having fun and congratulations on your efforts.
I do feel a bit of sensitivity on oil -- the proper oil for a Simplex Projector is a Capella type -- it's actually more of a hydraulic fluid and lubricant. It was specified long ago because it's thin (easy to pump), and the word from Howard Straight (Mr. Simplex) was that its molecule size allowed it to run between the mated surfaces of the star and cam in the intermittent. Other oil types can't get in that space to lubricate. Regular motor oil of any kind is used only in a pinch, 10Wt NON-DETERGENT only. I've found it gums up the intermittent after a long period of time.
That said, I have had very good luck with the synthetic oils, Mobil One or similar -- again, the lightest weight you can find and always NON-DETERGENT. Howard liked that stuff very much -- a good enough recommendation for me.
If you have down-angled projection very little oil is required in the mechanism's sump, just enough to cover the intake tube in the screen when running. The pick-up should be in the front of the machine, of course.
I'm not sure of the "whipping" noise. If this is an older Simplex, there's a governor on top of the vertical shaft that also splashes the oil around. If the governor and fire shutter have been removed, there is just an impeller up there to move oil. You might look at the little drip tube that drops oil into the intermittent, right next to the flywheel. If it's slightly mis-aligned it might run against the flywheel and make some noise not common to the machine. And if you're worried about a "whipping noise", you've got a very quiet machine and did a great job getting them together. So, how's the picture?
Best of luck...
Pat
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-17-2000, 12:42 PM:
Dave, sounds like they didn't need the drive-in conversion. You will need it, though, if you're going to have a negative projection angle of more than a few degress.Pat, is the drive-in oil "kit" still available for this machine?
Tim
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Better Projection Pays!
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-17-2000, 12:50 PM:
Thanks Pat. A nice compliment, but I wonder if my "great job" of putting them together is due to the fact they were only really apart for a few days. I figured that would be the best way to keep them in good shape, by being able to run them. But, yes, it's a lot of fun working with them (my wife laugh's when I say I'm going out to the "booth" - they're set up pointing out my workshop door to nowhere). Picture? I wish I knew. I have lamps I can't light (3-phase carbons). And no screen. These machines are currently mounted to a 5 degree upward throw. My wish is single-phase smaller carbon lamps (these were running in all their glory at a drive-in with 2000' magazines and Futura II arcs). That way, I learn the right way. But, it may remain just a wish, they'll be hard to find. So for now, get 'em running, work on threading, getting the sound working, and I've told my wife that I want lamps for my birthday (well, she asked!). Thanks again.------------------
Dave Bird
Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 06-17-2000, 03:13 PM:
Welcome, Dave, and good luck. Come on, wife... Although if she lets you have projectors you're doing better than me.
Tim, I don't think the "drive-in" kit is available anymore per se but I'd have to check. I think we still have the oil guages and such, just not sure about the required tubing, etc. The pickup is easily reversed in the machine for operation -- just getting an oil level reading is the harder part.
I can't remember the last time I had an up-angle installation with new machines, though...Pat
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 06-17-2000, 04:14 PM:
Check with the Edward H. Wolk Company in Chicago for the Drivein oil kit (www.edwolk.com).
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-17-2000, 05:59 PM:
The "Drive-In" kit Simplex number G-4350 (Strong Bin number 52-60057) is still listed in the parts price sheet and carries a list price of $65.00.The kit does not include the oil guage itself (you take it from the front). If your oil system does not have the manfold for moving the oil pick-up to the rear, then you will need to update that as well.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-17-2000, 09:05 PM:
Steve, do you have a listing for the manifold, bracket and such?Thanks!
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Better Projection Pays!
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-18-2000, 09:29 AM:
AHA! Best thing I've done yet is to print off the parts catalogue. I see what I need (or may need) if I ever raise angle further.
It's all that stuff coming out of the oil pump to a 3-way junction. So, who's my local Strong Int'l dealer? Is it Gordon McLeod? (Who by the way, I believe worked on the machines I have for years, there's the guy who kept them in such good shape.)
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Dave Bird
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-19-2000, 06:55 AM:
Anybody know much of the "Strong Super 135"
carbon lamphouses? Last night, dad got treated to the drive-in and taking a tour of the booth, spotted two very nice examples. The originals of the same model are rusting in the rain, but these look almost perfect. This theatre runs single phase (he says 3000W Xenon) and always has. Could I light these lamps single-phase? If not, how did they do it?------------------
Dave Bird
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-19-2000, 08:26 PM:
Dave, you can run YOUR lamps single-phase, with the right power supply and the right carbon trim.------------------
Better Projection Pays!
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-19-2000, 08:32 PM:
BTW, every lamp could run on several sizes of carbons, to tailor it to the specific installation... the lamps don't really care WHAT size you run, as long as:- the proper size carbon holders are available for that model and,
- the ammeter's big enough to read the current range.
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Better Projection Pays!
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-19-2000, 09:19 PM:
OK! Thanks Tim. I think the source of the most confusion for "newbies" like myself is in lamping, Xenon or otherwise. I'll still persue those 135's though, because they were spotless (and very cool looking) and perhaps he does have the power source I need. But on to my next topic - the TALE OF 2 PROJECTORS: I just returned from "the booth" (I have some pictures if anyone wants a good laugh of the drive-in booth to nowhere!) Number 2 runs a nice constant oil splash on the glass, with an even drip - drip - drip to the intermittent flywheel. It's the one that makes the "whipping" noise. Do it all night if I left it on.
But Number 1, positively GUSHES on the glass and flywheel and then drops volume to what I thought was normal and then more or less quits spraying. The whole process lasts for approximately 40 seconds and I'm too afraid to let them run for more than a few seconds after that. As it dries up, oil seems to be thrown fairly hard toward the oil intake. This machine is whisper-quiet.
Sound familiar to anyone? I'm hoping maybe it's just a matter of installing the upward-angle kit, although these ran at current up-angle as I mentioned before.
Lastly, what is maximum wattage Xenon on single-phase? I've talked to many drive-in owners locally who say they're in the 2500-3000 range. Thank you.
PS- For what it's worth, you fly those ad banners Brad. They're not the annoying ones anyway and this site is just a fabulous resource, you folks are lucky to have it. I wish we had one in my "real" business. And thanks again to all for humouring this newbie. Free carload pass for you all will be waiting at the box!
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Dave Bird