Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Carbon Arcs

This is topic Carbon Arcs in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-23-2000, 09:50 AM:

I hope I'm not bothering anyone, maybe you've all discussed this to death. What I find interesting, and especially with the talk about the drive-in recently that was switching to 3K Xenon, is that many of you seem to prefer the old arc lamps. One fellow recently mentioned that he wasn't sure whether a particularly great presentation he saw was the high quality of the print or not. This was the first time he'd seen a film lit with carbons, and thought that might be the reason for the "warmth" of the light. I completely understand the economics now, but as a "hobbyist", I'm curious as hell to spark up some carbon! My lamps were running 13.6mm, but you could buy kits for 11, 10, and even 9. Does anyone know what kind of amps/ output for the 9's and 10's? Or where I might find a chart? What are the comparitive light outputs between these old girls and Xenon? My manual only lists the two larger sizes. And hey, if anyone has any interesting stories, fire away!

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Dave Bird

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 06-23-2000, 10:00 AM:

Oi, old memories...
If the lamphouse manuals don't specify it, it seems like the boxes of carbons themselves listed a typical current.
Carbons can produce a very different color of light, depending on their operating current, arc gap and even their relationship to the f1 point of the reflector.

Pat

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-23-2000, 10:06 AM:

There is a nice table of carbon sizes and amperage ratings in the SMPTE projectionist book. Someone told me that this is now out of print, but I was able to order a copy a couple of years ago. Perhaps it's been reprinted since then?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-23-2000, 02:44 PM:

Prints were color-timed for carbon arc for many years after xenon was in widespread use. I think they are being timed for xenon now.

While I really do like the look of carbon arc, let me assure you it was a job to run them. You were always cleaning, tweeking, and cleaning some more. Ash in the lamphousing, on the reflector, up the stack; all of this had to be cleaned away (the fire police inspector would stick their hand way up the stack to check.) Silver polishing the carbon jaws, scraping the melted copper away (sometimes off of the reflector- be careful!), certain kinds of oil (regular, graphite, etc.) had to be used in certain places. The carbon feed speeds would vary during the day depending on the local line voltage, so you would have to check it. The booth would get hot. The carbon end would sometimes break off, so the light would look weird until a new crater got burned in (about 3-4 min.) The ability to guess at how long a stub would last varied from one operator to another- sometimes with a melted silver jaw as a result (an Ashcraft 13.5mm negative jaw cost $260 in 1978.)

No, thank you.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-23-2000, 03:02 PM:

John's points are valid. I started a little more than two years ago in a single-screen with 6000' reels and xenons and have since been the fill-in guy at a single-screen with small reels and carbons and a 10-screen automated multiplex with platters, start timers, etc.

Of these three different arrangements, I'd say that the single-screen with carbons required the most actual work, but that the multiplex required the most knowledge (not only projectors, but also platters, automation systems, fancy sound systems, etc.). I've enjoyed all three environments, but for different reasons; all of them have been interesting experiences.

If I were building a new single-screen theatre or renovating an old one, though, I'd definitely go with 6000' reels (or at least the capability to run 6000' reels) and xenons. It would be pretty silly to install rebuilt carbon arc equipment today (except maybe for followspot use), although I agree that it does look beautiful onscreen.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-23-2000, 03:25 PM:

Agreed, I wouldn't install them either to run a "real" theatre. But my initial plan is to learn how to run these suckers (probably thrown to the side of my barn). I knew when I took these lamps that I really had little chance of ever lighting them, though I would've liked to, for the experience. And you gotta admit, for sheer "wow" appeal to patrons or folks who don't have to deal with them everyday, the carbons
are pretty cool. That being said, my dream drive-in features 3 screens with completely modern booth upstairs, but for screen 1, an additional glass-enclosed (visible to patrons) old-time changeover-carbon setup for when the boss felt like stepping back in time. Neat idea? I think so. Realistic? Probably not, course building a drive-in probably isn't either. But I'm having fun with that equipment. Thanks guys.

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Dave Bird

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 06-23-2000, 04:17 PM:

Check out the NATIONAL CARBON BULLETINS (Union Carbide) on the manuals page. It will give you quite a bit of info on carbon arc.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-23-2000, 10:47 PM:

I'll tell you one thing carbon arcs were good for; keeping annoying managers out of the booth.

One guy came in and started in with the usual, "Think I'll learn projection...easy job, get extra money.." I said sure- do this.... and lit up this big Ashcraft we had. "BuzzzitttfittiFIZZIIIITTTT!!!!!" Sounds like a shitload of really pissed-off bees. Of course, I kept the rods apart so the feed motors whined like crazy to stabilize.

He actually took a slight step backwards. Really made my day.--

Posted by David Johnson (Member # 173) on 06-24-2000, 01:44 AM:

If I read you correctly you intend to convert a 13.6mm arc to a 10mm. Remember that the 13.3mm was not copper coated, but 9 & 10mm were,I think I recall a 11mm that was not copper coated but we never used them. The difference being that the copper coated used the copper as a conductor, but the uncoated used the silver contacts as close as possible to the flame to stop spindling. In a past life I used to make replacement jaws for the Ashcrafts, I found that solid silver was not necessary, brass blocks with water channels and a silver inlay around 2mm thick lasted as long as the solid silver and could be resilvered when they wore out. All told I made around 200 like this. I also converted a a few Cinemcannica lamphouses to 13.6mm for drivein use.
David

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 06-24-2000, 07:21 AM:

They were a lot of work. Dirty, constantly waiting for you to leave the booth so they could play up etc. but no one can take away their excellent heating properties. Where else could you put the freshly cooked hot dog during intermission at the drive in and still have it hot after the slides finished.

Mmmmmmmmmm...carbon heated hot dogs....

YUMMY!!!!!

------------------
"I could never be a woman. I'd just sit at home and play with my breasts all day."

Steve Martin - L.A. Story

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 06-24-2000, 09:47 AM:

Here in the states carbons were available uncoated in 9,10,11,and 13.6mm sizes. The length was 20 inches although there were 18 inchers made in the 11 and 13.6mm sizes for some of the Ashcraft lamps. There were also joinable 13.6mm carbons made for awhile. I think these were 12 or 14 inches long. They also made a 16mm positive for special high current applications.

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Bob Throop

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-24-2000, 02:31 PM:

Joinable 13.6mm carbons (no stubs- you just fit the end of one into the front of another) were made by Union Carbide. I think the trade name was "Lorraine."

Where I worked, they were too cheap, and bought Marble "Double Eagle" brand.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-24-2000, 03:06 PM:

Lorraine was is a french carbon company
The joinable 13.6mm carbon was a product of union carbide canada
The other carbon companies were
Morganite (UK)
Diamnond (Ringsdorf Germany)
Double Eagle (Marble Co. Japan)
Sunny (Ibagawa Japan)
Seagull (china)

Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 06-24-2000, 09:44 PM:

Carbon Arcs? No thanks, friends. John is right. What a load of work cleaning and making sure that these things were working properly. Breaking during a show, sputtering and causing fluctuating light.

I started in 1968 in a single house with two Century C projectors and soundheads. The lamps were Peerless MagnArc. Great at the time but they can't even begin to compare with the Xenon lamps of today.
Operating a booth today (even a multiplex) is a far cry from the so called "good old days", believe me. Xenons, platters and automation have made running a modern booth nearly trouble free if they are cared for properly by caring people. I don;t mean to sound a like an old fart but you young projectionist have no idea how easy you have it today.

The bygone days can stay that way as far as I'm concerned. Enough ranting now from me.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-25-2000, 09:17 AM:

Lorraines were from France (Fronce!), and were imported by Carbons, Inc. UCAR made "Nationals".

I think they're ALL bulk-purchased from Lorraine now, anyway... even the Marble brand. Everyone just puts their individual stamps on. The ones I liked the best, Union Carbide, curtailed projector carbon manufacture years ago. Then, they would make a big run about once a year, to fill accumulated orders. Before long, even that was discontinued.

Yes, carbon arc operation... I loved it! It was when the job was a CRAFT.

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Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 06-25-2000, 01:09 PM:

I love carbon arc! I always liked "tinkering" and making them just right!
Carbon arc light makes the color (and picture) just seem to jump out at you. Run a cartoon on carbon arc and then run that same cartoon on xenon and you'll see a difference. Carbon arc is BETTER!

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 06-25-2000, 01:57 PM:

A couple of years ago a local performing arts center decided to start showing films again after a 20 year hiatus. The manager remarked that he wished they could afford xenon. My reply? "We don't need no steenking xenon".

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Bob Throop

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-25-2000, 06:51 PM:

Carl I have fought long and hard to keep the carbon arc questions on the projectionist license exams in ontario since we actually still have a lot of them
Several review room I deal with specify carbon arc for dailies as well

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-25-2000, 07:25 PM:

For those scoring at home, this seems to be about even at the moment. I have it about 4 to 4 for and against (though I'm not sure where to put the "carbon hot dogs" reply).
Suppose that depends on how tasty they were!

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Dave Bird

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-25-2000, 09:07 PM:

The Massachusetts projectionist license exam still has a couple of carbon-arc questions. One of them is something like this: true/false--when carbons are burning in a lamphouse, the distance between the positive and negative tips is maintained by an automatic feed.

Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 06-27-2000, 02:24 AM:

carbons worked good to light your cigarettes

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 06-27-2000, 08:50 AM:

A couple of people have mentioned projectionist license exam's. I know I am probably a lot newer than many of you, but I have never heard of such a thing where i'm at. I have only been in the business for just over 5 years, but still I would have thought I would have heard of such a thing. Does anyone know of one around Kansas City, hell I would even travel for a test like that.

------------------
Dave Cutler
15/70 projectionist &
Booth Manager at a 24-plex
Kansas City, MO

"Do or do not, there is no try."

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-27-2000, 11:06 AM:

Heating food in a carbon arc lamphouse might have been convenient, but I worry about the long-term health effects. Issue #10 of the National Projector Carbon bulletin gave the ingredients in arc carbons:

"In general, their principal ingredients are: petroleum coke derived from the refining process, lamp black, graphite, and rare-earth compounds that provide the special qualities of the light. Pitch materials are used to bond the particles together."

Those proprietary "rare-earth compounds" probably included several "heavy metal" chemicals. Carbons come from a day when lead paint, mercury thermometers, arsenic insecticide, DDT, and asbestos insulation were considered safe.

If you use carbon arcs, be sure you have the proper ventilation, use a respirator when cleaning the ash, and NEVER cook or heat food in the lamphouse.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-27-2000, 11:24 AM:

Don't you all miss the days when 4 out of 5 doctor's smoked menthols and fried food was "healthful"? Speaking of asbestos though, I was wondering what the old braided white electrical wire insulator was made of???

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Dave Bird

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-27-2000, 11:51 AM:

Dave:

The white, fiberous insulation used on wires exposed to heat was often asbestos. Likewise, the gray-colored material used on heat baffles and dowsers often contained asbestos.

Asbestos left by itself is usually not a hazard. Breathing the airborne particles is hazardous. Disposal of asbestos-containing equipment and materials must be done properly, and is often regulated. How many old theatres still have asbestos curtains?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-27-2000, 12:59 PM:

John P. wrote:
"If you use carbon arcs, be sure you have the proper ventilation, use a respirator when cleaning the ash, and NEVER cook or heat food in the lamphouse."

Uh-oh. I failed two of the three above...!

Regarding Dave C. question;

Obviously, in the nitrate days there had to be some testing to insure projectionists knew what they were doing. Even after safety film was introduced, there was still the possibility of getting an older nitrate print. But after many years, most every nitrate print had been "purged" from theaters and film exchanges. (Now, in Connecticut, you can't run nitrate even if the booth was equipped to run it.) Also, xenon lamps and automation further reduced the need for "real" projectionists. And with theaters struggling to survive, any labor cost reduction (regardless of how it is done) is perceived as "a good thing." Which not only pushes legislation their way, but also encourages equipment manufacturers to provide even more automated features. (Did you ever think 20 years ago that anyone would want an ethernet network connection to a sound processor!?)

Connecticut has just stopped requiring projectionist licenses. The test had become a joke, anyway, with only 10 true/false lame questions.

When I took it, there were 100 questions; 90 multiple choice, 10 "write-in." Then a guy went with you to a booth and would create violations, and you would have to find them before 'starting' (the theater would not really be open.) Sometimes, he would 'psych' you out by doing nothing. There were 'carbon arc' licensees and 'xenon' licensees (a xenon license meant you couldn't work in a carbon arc booth.)

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-27-2000, 01:34 PM:

John Walsh said:

"If you use carbon arcs, be sure you have the proper ventilation, use a respirator when cleaning the ash, and
NEVER cook or heat food in the lamphouse."

Uh-oh. I failed two of the three above...!

So, which one did you pass? Answer quickly, the ambulance is coming for you.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-27-2000, 10:03 PM:

The Massachusetts license is more or less a joke. It's a 50 question true/false exam, covering common sense and nitrate-era laws. It's administered by the Department of Public Safety and seems to serve mostly as a method for revenue generation for the state (er, Commonwealth).

The test itself is pretty straightforward (but has a number of spelling and grammatical errors). Stuff like fire extinguishers, the purpose of a rectifier, the maximum legal allowable temperature at the film gate, the amount of flammable liquids that may be legally kept in a booth, etc. Basically, anyone who has any degree of common sense and who has seen the inside of a projection booth and pays $50 to the state can pass it.

Posted by David Johnson (Member # 173) on 06-28-2000, 04:22 AM:

It has been mentioned that non copper coated carbons were availiable in dia less than 11mm What lamphouses used them? all lamphouses that I have seen that used 10mm or smaller had a V rest, clearly the non coated carbons could not work here.
David

Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 06-28-2000, 09:52 AM:

The first arc lamp I ever used was a small Strong Low Intensity lamp powered by a pair of Tungar bulbs and if I remember correctly they were about a 6 and 7mm trim without the copper cladding. It was a protable system without much light, but what the hell, it was a Movie!

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-28-2000, 10:23 AM:

Jeepers, Bill, how old ARE you?

David, Strong Mighty 90s used 10mm rotating positives, as well as 11mm. I think Futuras would go down to 10mm, too. There are probably others I'm missing, but those come to mind.

I don't recall ever seeing a 10mm copper-coated... 9mm was the largest (positive) copper-coated I know of.

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Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 06-28-2000, 12:35 PM:

Tim, Futura 2 manual lists part numbers for conversion to 11, 10, and 9mm. Mine were using 13.6. Mustn't have been common to use the smaller two, as amperage charts only listed for upper two. I've looked and looked and can't find much different in the conversion kits except the hole size where the sticks went through (damn, I was trying to sound smart, but that's what it looks like to me!).

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Dave Bird

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 06-28-2000, 01:14 PM:

All of the manufacturers of high intensity lamps using rotating positives were available for 9,10,11 and 13.6mm carbons.
These included Ashcraft, Strong and Motiograph-Hall. I personally ran Ashcraft Super Highs with 10mm positives at 90-95 amps. I also ran Strong mighty 90's with 9mm positives at about 75 amps. I also ran Strongs with 10mm carbons.

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Bob Throop

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-28-2000, 01:46 PM:

John P wrote:
"....which one did you pass? Answer quickly, the ambulance is coming for you."

Let's just say that I hate wearing protective gear, and I like to eat too much!

The old-timer who trained me was always reminding me to check the lamp exhaust flues, make sure the exhaust fan belt was in good shape, grease the fan bearings, clean caked on carbon dust off of the fan blades, etc. etc. His dad (also a projectionist) has died of 'lung complications' and always made ventlation a priority.

I'm really glad I got to work with that guy- he was like a projection-technology time machine. His projection career started in about 1925, when (at age 10) his dad brought him to work to hand-rewind reels.

Posted by David Johnson (Member # 173) on 06-29-2000, 01:41 AM:

All Ashcrafts that we used had 13.6 rotating positives, I seem to recall that the MGM circuit (Leows) used a few 11mm rotating positives. All 10mm that I have seen were copper coated, they were quite common and the Cinemacannica Zenith 450 lamphouses used these. When you get into low intensity lamp houses that is different thing, I have see some vertical lamphouses which used 20mm, you had to grind them on an angle before you fitted them, come to think of it this is what the "Brentograph" used.
David

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 06-30-2000, 03:17 AM:

quote:
how many old theatres still have asbestos curtains?

(Sheesh, what a chore to copy n'paste.
What, disable the Backspace Key function next?)

Almost all old theaters with asbestos fire curtains still have them.

If you don't move them, the asbestos particles are not dislodged.

So theaters are saying they don't move them. Unfortunately, that means they're not testing the fire curtains if they're not moving them. Or, they're testing them, & not telling anyone.

Some lucky historic theaters will occasionally get huge grants & use part of the money to seal an old fire curtain. They're certainly in the lucky minority, though.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-30-2000, 08:13 AM:

An older guy I know once owned a small theater (in Stamford, CT, now called "The State.")

He said in the late 1950's the fire inspector made him "test" the fire curtian by cutting the rope and letting it go. It made a huge "BANG" when the bottom of it hit the stage. Dust went everywhere, probably asbestos dust. He said there was a really nice pattern printed on the fire curtian.

He and the inspector pulled on the rope to roll it back up. But with the two of them, they could only get it about 1/4 of the way back up. It was getting near showtime, and he finally ran out to the street and gave free passes to 3 more guys to help. The 5 of them finally got it back up.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 06-30-2000, 07:02 PM:

The state of Victoria, Australia had a projectionist licence and exam for about 60 years.

A two year part-time course was held by the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology that was conducted in addition to full-time work as an assistant projectionist.

The exam was a full day! It included Projection Technology, Optics, AC, DC, Sound and practicle which included a spool of film full of out-of-frames, c/s and w/s backwards leaders etc. You encountered situations and had to deal with them whilst maintaining good presentation!

The government axed this licence in the late 1980's and the course was aboandoned at that time. We are now looking to emulate it in-house.

Yes, and it did contain questions on Carbons! I always had good performance from Westrex 14, Ashcraft Super Cinex and Corelite and Strong Futura 11.

David

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 07-03-2000, 12:51 AM:

quote:
He and the inspector pulled on the rope to roll it back up. But with the two of them, they could only get it about 1/4 of the way back up. It was getting near showtime, and he finally ran out to the street and gave free passes to 3 more guys to help. The 5 of them finally got it back up

The ones hung with the rope chopped with an axe were "dead hung" without counterweights. Pulling it back up is just like lifting, umm, a 40x20 or more slab of asbestos straight up.

I say test the thing. Remember the Iroquois.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 07-05-2000, 11:34 PM:

Been using carbons for 14 yrs. Marbles work quite well and are a little less expensive.
Nationals are still being made but not by Union Carbide, they are owned by a British company. Parts for our Magnarcs have been no problem. Eastern Cinema Supply in Hanson Mass. has had everything I've needed. His prices are very good too.

Posted by John T. Mellor (Member # 468) on 08-18-2000, 06:56 PM:

Carbons For the light and color its the best thing for the dust dirt and work well enough said . I ran all types of corbons from peerless tp ashcraft Strong brenkert but the one I liked the best was the Peerless model 15 condencer arc 13.6 positive ,1/2 inch negative at 190 amps these were not the conventional burner at the back with a reflector but the arc was at the front with two condencers collecting the light there was apicture of one in an old Kodak broshure and I think its at Kodak. John P. help me on this one . Anyhow I ran it at the Mt . Penn drive in in Reading Pa. and at one time they were used at Radio City Music Hall. They are easy to recognise at the projector they are high sloping back to the rear If anyone knows were I can find two I would like to get a pair .

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-18-2000, 08:45 PM:

There is a waiting list for any peerless hycandescents. They are still the most popular lamp for process projection at studios

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-19-2000, 09:43 AM:

I got dibs on the Hy-Candescents!

BTW, Gord, if you ever find that manual, don't forget me!

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Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-19-2000, 11:18 AM:

Tim spent the last 2 days in the shop basement area cleaning up after a sprinkler pipe burst. Not fun
So while climbing around I dug out the manual email where to mail to copy to and I will get it out to you next week (after i get the hip waders off)

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-20-2000, 06:55 AM:

Thank you very much! Stay dry.

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Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 08-20-2000, 09:21 AM:

I always pictured some third-world factory still ripping off clones of some of this obsolete equipment, kind of like they still make old VW beetles in Mexico. Who was the last to produce carbon lamps and where?

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Dave Bird

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-20-2000, 09:49 AM:

Strong was probably the last since the strong 1K and the futura were the lamps on the back of a super trouper and gladiator followspot
I believe the magnArc was still available new into the early 70's
Pat could probably tell us more about that
In India Monee still has a magnarc knockoff available

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-21-2000, 06:24 AM:

John Mellor:

Check out the National Projector Carbon Bulletins that are in the Film-Tech Manuals section. Lots of discussion and photos of condenser type lamphouses.

Posted by Rob Brooks (Member # 186) on 08-24-2000, 10:09 PM:

Just about every booth I was in (in the old days) had a big bucket of carbon drippings. The regular projectionist always had a story about how he was gonna be rich from selling the drippings. Did anyone in these booths actually sell the drippings? Or did they just get demolished when the building was condemned or turned in multi/mega-plex?

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Rob

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 08-25-2000, 07:08 AM:

The theater was supposed to cash in the copper, then donate the money to Will Rodgers. But, I'm sure you will not be surprised when tell you that many times, that did not happen.

An older guy I worked with was *nuts* about getting and selling copper. He would actually keep track of stubs, and many times would declare a 6" length "used-up." I would work on little electric "booth-projects" and he was always asking; "Are you going to use that peice of wire... it's too short for anything..I can have it, OK..?" He would sit there with a pen knife, peeling away. Then, he would just thread-up; never washed his hands until he went home.

Sorry, but it drove me nuts, as you can see....!

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 08-25-2000, 06:46 PM:

National Carbons are still manufactured and sold in the US by National Specialty Carbon Co. They use the trade name 'National' This division was split off of Union Crbide many years ago. The theatre projection end is not as busy as their medical and printing divisions, they make carbons for X-ray & photo exposure lamps, Printing plate exposure, and other uses as well as searchlite carbons. National is alive and well! I still sell several cases a year to
a select few customers! They are still more stable and emit less shrapnel than Marble or
lesser brands!!!

Posted by Bill Carter (Member # 156) on 08-25-2000, 06:58 PM:

Unfortunately, the current National doesn't make anything smaller than 8mm. I'm in desperate need of some 6mm pos. and 5.5mm neg. Pearlex to run in my 16mm Victor model 1600.

Does anybody know if Marble, or anybody else makes anything that small? Even if I can't find the Pearlex, I'd settle for anything in the correct size.

No, I don't really run the Victor that often, but when I need it... it's the only thing that does the job. It's great for the occasional outdoor party. I probably have more FUN running it than anything else (except a AA-II).

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-26-2000, 08:32 AM:

According to Lorraine in france they OEM most of national's carbons for them

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 08-26-2000, 09:10 PM:

I still have access to a number of tubes of NOS National Pearlex 5.5 & 6mm paired sticks in the round tube. Email me for details.