Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Managers in the Booth!?!

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Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 06-26-2000, 03:29 PM:

I was curious to find out if anyone else had to put up with training managers in their booths? Actually training managers isn't my problem, it's when one of them is put up in my booth and I HAVEN'T trained them.

This recently happened to me (if you hadn't guessed) and now I have 11 scratched prints. That's 11 out of 24 screens that now look like crap!! I just can't get over 11 scratched prints.

I talked to the Managing Director and was told that since this manager had been to the AMC approved booth school that they would be able to run a booth. For those that haven't worked for AMC, the AMC booth school for managers isn't even about threading a running projectors mostly. It teaches them how to communicate with projectionists (oh wait that's a bad word at AMC, Booth Ushers) when there is something wrong. Now that's all fine and dandy (actually I like that alot), but they need proper training to run the booth and you can't learn that at a company wide training, every booth is different. You can learn the basics that way, but should learn your theatres specifics from it's Booth Manager.

OK, well now that I have vented. Does anyone else have to deal with this? Let me know.

Also this poses a question I have wondered about. Which theatre companies are the best to work for? i.e. Who treats projectionists the best? I work for AMC, but would love to get back with Dickinson Theatres (smaller midwest chain). I have also worked for United Artists in Coloado and Michigan, that was OK, but still we weren't considered projectionists, really.

Sorry about the book long topic.

------------------
Dave Cutler
15/70 projectionist &
Booth Manager at a 24-plex
Kansas City, MO

"Do or do not, there is no try."

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 06-26-2000, 09:18 PM:

Yes, my manager runs the booth on days I'm off and I usually have to fix a few of his mistakes (make-ups especially). Now in his defense, he is pretty good, BUT he certainly is not the "Film God" he thinks he is. We disagree about some things, but we mostly respect each other's work. I can get away with a lot of things that others can't because I have more senoirity than him and he usually listens to my suggestions. I guess I'm lucky he DOES care about the film, equipment, and other things. I know some of you other guys have it a lot worse.

Posted by Michael Cunningham (Member # 210) on 06-26-2000, 11:35 PM:

I too have managers in my booth. The entire company requires this, hell I have to call myself a manager now just to stay in the booth! Luckily, all the managers who work my booth are personally trained by me first. I have a very technically oriented General Manager who is big on good presentation.

-Mike

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-26-2000, 11:43 PM:

All I can tell you is to sort of stand back and watch the fireworks. Yeah, a lot of film is going to get damaged but that's the only way, sometimes.

If you're always stepping in and fixing his screw ups HE won't get credit for them and YOU won't get credit for fixing them. It'll just look like he doesn't make mistakes becasue you keep saving his ass.

Next time he brainwraps a projector let him come and ask YOU for help. That'll humble his sorry ass. (He won't admit it but he'll know.) If you confront him, he'll just get defensive and try to make YOU the bad guy.

When it comes down to it, people will (evenually) notice that when you run the booth EVERYTHING runs perfectly and NO film gets F***ed up on your watch.

Posted by Bryan Fournier (Member # 264) on 06-27-2000, 09:21 PM:

From a 6 month formal apprenticeship before you could even project film in a "real life" situation, when I started TO a 3 day - 1 week booth school. Where did we go wrong?

Posted by Neil Hunter (Member # 1005) on 10-24-2001, 03:27 PM:

I hate it when mamagers try to run the booth. Here's my story:

A few months I got called in on an opening shift to my 16 screen multiplex when the opening projectionist called in sick at the last minute. The booth manager at the time(a 20 year old chick who thought she was hot stuff) decided that she was going to thread all 16 and start the whole first set instead of waiting for me to get there. Her threading skills are less than up to par, and it showed on this day. She started movies out of frame, and not knowing how to use a framing knob, let them play this way. Right after I got there, she came to me and quite frantically said that #5 had stopped. It had barely made it through the first Tech. ad before it had completely shut down. I did a once over on it, and realized that she had threaded the last roller before the film goes to the take up platter on our SPECO platters around the keeper roller! I started laughing out loud, fixed the problem in a matter of seconds, and restarted. She has since been ddemoted from booth manager.

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 10-24-2001, 08:02 PM:

I work for AMC and have never heard of this "booth school."

Is it just an booth orientation class that is part of the management based training?

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 10-25-2001, 02:14 AM:

When I was with Projectionist Local Union 279 in Houston, the manager and theater owners would never walk into the booth, I had a owner talk to me from outside the booth door, I told him to come in but he refuse, said the union told him no owner or managers in the booth at anytime.....whoooaaa weeee those were the days, but after 6,8 screens theaters started to comeing around, things changed, manager/operator was a common thing.....but I remember the old timers (projectionist) did not like that, I said...Hey this is the 80's it's time we change before we are all out of the booth.....well we were, the union didn't what to give in !!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-25-2001, 03:35 AM:

I think it would be a bit absurd that an owner couldn't walk into his own booth. What moron made up that rule? Oh well, I'm sure that individual is long dead and decomposing right now. I'm also sure no one misses him.

With all of the power that the union had, they should have conquered the world while they had the chance. Well, they did purchase the rights to the word "projectionist". It most theaters it is illegal for anyone to even mention that word. God forbid.

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 10-25-2001, 03:42 AM:

Yea, Joe, I totally agree, If I owned the theatre & even sign a contract, that my equipment, I'm paying the notes, I'll go start the damn thing if I wanted too !! But back in the 60's, 70', & early 80's, that wasn't the case at some theatres, I had it happen twice at different theatres where I work the swing shifts, I always felt it's your theatre, you sign my check, You can eat some of those chickens I'm cooking in the lamphouse, if you want !!! But yes it did happen, at one time the Houston local was as strong as New York, & Chicago...

Posted by Frank Rapisardi (Member # 435) on 10-25-2001, 06:57 AM:

When I started many years ago;the operator(projectionist) was in charge of the booth.He or she (mostly he) even had the right to exclude whomever he wanted from the booth(including managers). As far as training I sat and just watched.Then after weeks was allowed to rewind film reels.Then learned how to operate the projection equipment.Boy have times changed!

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Posted by Kristin Wahlund (Member # 922) on 10-25-2001, 03:30 PM:

At Marcus Theatres, I was in the both doing my job (Head Projectionist/Booth manager) ect, and our city manager shows up with some new guy the guy, who later becomes our GM, asks me why do you use yellow splicing tape? And other various dumb questions, so I made a book on how to be a projectioist at our theatre. He used it a lot. When I quit because he is a jerk, I took it with me. He had lots of problems.

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 10-25-2001, 04:02 PM:

Yellow splicing tape???

NO!!!!!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-25-2001, 04:21 PM:

Uh, oh. Yellow splicing tape??? Kristin you better run!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-25-2001, 06:02 PM:

I prefer the white splicing tape with the four dots on it. The kind you can't peel off without leaving horrible residue. That stuff kicks ass.

Quality sucks! J/K

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 10-25-2001, 07:51 PM:

I'm sure you just used that yellow tape that one time, when you unexpectedly ran out of clear tape, right? That's got to be the case, right?

Posted by Paul Harnden (Member # 1034) on 10-25-2001, 08:09 PM:

In my opinion it matters on the manager.

Working up in Washington for Regal Cinemas, I've had to deal with numerous GM's. Some were very intelligent and professional and took on very quickly, while others were cocky and did more harm than good.

To me the M/O position is sort of a double-edged sword. On one hand it's nice to have someone around who can take a shift over in case of emergencies, yet on the other hand it's quite frustrating training someone whose believes he/she knows what they're doing yet later will mess something up.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-25-2001, 08:29 PM:

Kristin: "Film Done Right" means the audience never seeing or hearing the splices. Can't do that with yellow tape. Maybe it's all you were given. But you're forgiven.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-25-2001, 08:35 PM:

Joe said: "I prefer the white splicing tape with the four dots on it."

Are any labs still using that type of splice? AFAIK, that kind of tape splice is now only sometimes used on the rare occasion that the process machine operator fears the normal ultrasonic splice was made improperly, and will break in the processing machine unless remade. Normal lab splices on polyester print film are now almost always ultrasonic splices. (Now if we could always just get them to be on the frameline )

Posted by Kristin Wahlund (Member # 922) on 10-26-2001, 11:53 PM:

We used the yellow tape for marking reel changes for breakdown... It was a two dollar house anyhow..

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 10-27-2001, 12:13 AM:

Kristen, I run the booth in at $2.00 house. We NEVER EVER use splicing tape or anything else that interferes with the quality of the presentation. It is your attitude that is screwing up this business for the rest of us who give a damn. If you are now out of the projection room it is good riddance.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-27-2001, 12:47 AM:

Bill, please read the last paragraph in the FAQ before posting further.

Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 10-27-2001, 01:21 AM:

I wish we could vent our frustrations on splicing-tape manufacturers, to shame them into dropping the opaque stuff from their offerings and enlighten users on Zebra tape at the very least.

Count another vote here for opaque tape--any color--being the work of the Devil.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-27-2001, 01:39 AM:

I would be hesitant to start blaming PEOPLE who use yellow splicing tape, etc. Some people may not know that other, better tape exists. Most people only know what they have been taught by others (which is the basis of my "religion" argument). If one has tried using clear tape and still knowingly uses opaque tape instead, then yes, they are making a very bad choice and should be taught otherwise.

If you go around yelling at people who have only so much experience, they will only get defensive about it. They will not get a desire to improve. Why should they? They would see you as an aggressor with an attitude and they would do anything NOT to be like you. Mistakes will be made, and we should do our best to teach others to do things right instead of just bitching.

Yelling at a company who makes a lousy product or who offers poor service in ENTIRELY different!

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 10-27-2001, 01:43 AM:

Whoooaaaa weeeeee I guess I better not tell everyone that I use to use white shoe polish in the film to mark the reels...

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 10-27-2001, 01:50 AM:

Hey Bill, another way to look at it is, when the projectionist tells the theatre manager the parts or supplies they need, the manager orders it....if you ask for splicing tape you get whatever the supply company send, & you used it....yellow, white, clear, whatever !!

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 10-27-2001, 02:27 AM:

Kristin,

I used to work at a $1.50 house where we used zebra tape (the clear stuff with the yellow dashes thru the middle). For presentation quality it is much better because you don't loose any of the soundtrack and much less of the picture then the yellow or white tape while still making it easy to find the reels while breaking down.

While it is always better to use the clear tape some companys insist on using the yellow or white tape but will agree on the zebra tape at the projectionists request. Unfortunatly at my husbands theater the owner refuses to buy the zebra tape incase he ever has to break down one of the films , they use the yellow crap!

I too admit that I used to use white china marker, OH THE HORROR!!!! I learned my lesson.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-27-2001, 03:02 PM:

Well I tend to agree with Bill on this one, though maybe not with the bluntness. It is one thing to say my boss insists or it is company policy and as such an employee does not have a choice but to say well it is a discount house who cares.
That is the attitude that I equate with the E cinema argument that "it is good enough."
Film done right has to be a ingrained mental attitude as well, and that is at all levels of the industry
end of rant

Posted by Paul Harnden (Member # 1034) on 10-27-2001, 05:01 PM:

I agree with Rachael on the zebra tape. The head projectionist would order it because of the way it helped the presentation. We used clear tape when out of zebra or for mid-reel splices, but working with zebra tape was kinda nice.

Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 10-27-2001, 06:05 PM:

I can understand everyones view here, but when I first started as a Projectionist at UA, All my manager would give me to work with in the booth was Solid Yellow or Solid white splicing tape. He told me we had to use all of it up first before he would order Zebra tape. I personally think that sucked, but I would feel really bad if that were the posistion that Kristin is in here then having to get Blasted like that. May not be her attitude at all but the attidtude of those above her. Alot of companies that do run discount houses treat the place as such. It is an attitude from management that Oh Well the folks are only pay 1.50 to get in the door here, so who cares is the appreture plate is slightly off in the big auditorium, or the Stereo sound like crud. They only paid a buck to get in. It is that attitude in corporations that is ruining the industry as well. Food for Thought.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-27-2001, 06:47 PM:

If you read her original post"At Marcus Theatres, I was in the both doing my job (Head Projectionist/Booth manager) ect, and our city manager shows up with some new guy the guy, who later becomes our GM, asks me why do you use yellow splicing tape? And other various dumb questions, so I made a book on how to be a projectioist at our theatre. He used it a lot. When I quit because he is a jerk, I took it with me. He had lots of problems." She does say she wrote a book on how to be a projectionist and considered it a dumb question as to why use yellow tape. I would probably in that GM position would consider it a intelligent question since and quality oriented GM would wonder why anyone would use opaque tape

Posted by Wes Hughes (Member # 981) on 10-27-2001, 10:26 PM:

GEEZ! Give opaque tape a break! It has its place, and it REALLY doesn't take away any "quality." ...unless you are a zealot projectionist

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-27-2001, 10:43 PM:

Opaque tape has only one place and that is on magfilm as it impossiblity to remove holds diagonal splices better.
Bottom line No professional projectionist uses opaque tape

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 10-28-2001, 02:17 PM:

Wes

I'm not a zealot projectionist by any means (I'm just a manager/projectionist at a discount theater). But I can't understand why anyone would use the opaque tape when they have the choice between that and clear or even zebra.

Do you use opaque tape? Look at the screen when a reel change is going through its obvious that the picture is cut and the sound is noticeably messed up. Maybe if I was just a normal customer that didn't know the difference between just a plain old movie and good film presentation I wouldn't give a care in the world. But I can't understand why anyone in this business would knowingly use the opaque tape if they had a choice. I believe in giving my customers the most enjoyable experience that I can possibly give them and alot of times its the little things that count the most.

Posted by John Lasher (Member # 968) on 10-28-2001, 05:21 PM:

One of our local theaters chrges $3.50 for matinees.

I went to see "Chocolat" on their smallest screen. Excellent presentation quality except for the fact that they used opaque tape. At the reel changes there was a noticable dropout in the soundtrack and picture.

(This theater runs all shows in mono, they have 3 screens but frequently have 4 or 5 movies running during the day)

Posted by Wes Hughes (Member # 981) on 10-28-2001, 06:04 PM:

I don't use opaque tape...I use yellow splicemark or clear...but our largest theatre (mine) has only 5 screens. If I had 10 screens or more at one location I would most likely use opaque.

I was union trained, so I know why this offends some of you...I just think it is one of those things that can annoy a professional...one of those things that 99% of the general public doesn't notice and could care less about.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 10-28-2001, 06:30 PM:

Take it from someone who was legally blind w/o glasses prior to Lasik--there is no excuse for using oblique tape and white shoe polish to mark splices!

I always have a flashlight at hand to help out. I also take a little piece of the masking tape off the tail and gently lay it next to the splice as a temp marker. No, the tape does not get stuck in the print--I lay it on very gently so that it comes off with a flick of the finger. Oblique tape is terrible! Generally speaking, oblique tape and white shoe polish was mostly common on used low serial number studio prints that I got on a regular basis!

Film Guard and Film Guard Media Pad material or lense tissue is very effective at removing white shoe polish. This is a very, very gentle and time consuing procedure!

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 10-28-2001, 08:25 PM:

John,
You lookin' at me???

Wes,
Take in mind that most theaters with 10 screens or more would have 2 projectionists working on any given thursday night. For a 10 screen theater thats like working on a 5 screen each. I work in a 7 screener and when needed we have a 2nd projectionist come in to help (he only works on thursdays), when we only have a small change he doesn't come in. That or the like seems to be common practice with theaters with 7+ screens. Why would they need to use opaque tape? Clear tape is very easy to find, use your eyes, your fingers, and a flashlight and there you go.

Posted by Christopher Santapaola (Member # 1015) on 10-28-2001, 09:15 PM:

I would have to agree with my friend Rachel. What few movies I have put together (typicly at her husbands theatre) I had to use yellow tape. It was nice for taking apart the movie but you could definatly notice the splice when it was on the screen. The best shows I have seen (in regards to the quality of the actual print) all had clear tape or at least zebra tape. I personaly never noticed the zebra tape but a few of my friends say they can. As for china markers I just found them to be unprofessional and on one case anoying when on one section of the print it cuts across the screen, I imagine the hand slipped but that could happen to anyone using that technique.

Thats my opinion any way.

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 10-28-2001, 09:35 PM:

Oh yes, why not yellow tape? No one would ever notice. who cares about the audience anyway, or quality? Perhaps to speed things further, we should just leave the heads and tails on and splice the whole mess together, breaking down a print would be simple quick and easy.

Seriously though, I know a lot of people that aren't zealot projectionists, zealots, or projectionists that do notice, and they do feel that the black flashes take away from the presentation of the film. When a print is going to be shown several times over a week (at a minimum, usually) there is no reason to use the opaque tape. How much extra time will it take to break down a print with clear tape? It can't be that much.

I think that even if someone doesn't specifically notice the things that make up poor presentation, they all get digested in some way. If we want to keep people in the theaters, the best possible presentation is integral. The poorer the presentation, the better the argument for staying home and watching a DVD.

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 10-28-2001, 10:01 PM:

My Comment: Just Splice The Damn Thing !!! :P

Posted by Bob Healey (Member # 1003) on 10-28-2001, 10:28 PM:

Since we have a policy of not letting a print go out with more than one piece of tape, and our projectors do not take kindly to multiple layers of tape, i often have to spend half an our or more peeling of tape. if its zebra or clear it comes of easily, but if its opaque, it takes forever and a day and i can never get it all off. do the next guy a favor

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 10-29-2001, 12:38 AM:

CHRIS!!!!! AWESOME TO SEE YOU ON THE FORUM!!!

I agree with Rachel, Chris, Gord, Brad, Joe and everyone else. I prefer clear tape (but will begrungingly use Zebra) I have never had trouble breaking a print with clear tape and I tend to run the MUT a little too fast too, which in my own opinion is not good practice for me to do, but I have never missed a splice I can feel them with my finger quite easily. IMO There is no need for yellow white red or even poka-doted splicing tape.

------------------
--Sean McKinnon
Manager
Loews Cineplex Entertainment
Liberty Tree Mall 20
Danvers, Mass
www.enjoytheshow.com

Posted by Craig Hanham (Member # 1010) on 10-29-2001, 01:32 AM:

As a c/o operator who gets prints way down the line and often for film classes for University courses I dont really care what colour tape is used, unless its a mid reel splice.
I too care about presentation even if I dont have a paying audience, i still have the Theatre Hirer and the presentation is even more important when they take their money elsewhere. Excuses that some idiot messed up the print dont go that far.
But I really object to 5 layers of tape on 7 frames cut at a head or tail covered in dirty fingers , dust , hair and pizza leftovers (dont snigger i've seen it). And all that polish, white out and

is just a pain when it gets all aver the print

Anyway back to the Thread.
I have yet to get my Line Manager into the booth when I'm showing a film. It would be really good to show them what a messed up print looks like and why it can take up to a couple of hours to set up, and why i cant burn a carbon down to the last inch (and why 18min of carbon wont do 19 min of reel).
If the person who has the responsibility for the building and the profitability of the business wants to know whats going on by all means thay should be encouraged. However it doesnt mean they should be allowed to touch. Good manners and a little common sense application of demarcation can go a long way. If all else fails make it look harder than it is.

"If you cant dazzle em with brilliance. Bafffle em with Bull."

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-29-2001, 02:12 AM:

People still use carbons? Aren't those about as healthy as smoking? I hear that the light is very good, but with Christie xenons the light is awesome plus it burns for 8,000 hours (depending on the bulb, of course) and it doesn't give you lung cancer.

Posted by Craig Hanham (Member # 1010) on 10-29-2001, 03:34 AM:

Yes Joe some of us still use carbon

No it dont cause lung cancer, well not to the operator, as all the exhaust gas is vented outside with a fan via the exhaust flues.And with the high temp you get complete burning.
Oh yeah the light is good, actually the colour temp. is hot around the 4600K to 5300K mark.
When you get a good print it looks great; much better than some of those penny pinching multi-plexes who dont run their xenons at high power.(made Episode 1 something awesome to look at)

And yes it can be a lot of work.

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 10-29-2001, 08:25 AM:

Speaking from a non technical position, if I were to be given my druthers, I would opted to watch a film being projected with a carbon arc projector and not xenon.

The colors seem richer and more vibrant when viewed projected using the carbons.

Of course on the other side. it is a lot easier to carry a xenon lamp up through the mezzanine, loge and balcony then up a ladder into the booth, than carrying a box of positive and negative carbons.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-29-2001, 09:01 AM:

One theory as to why some people prefer the "look" of film projected with a carbon arc is that the spectral output of a High Intensity carbon arc is much "smoother" than xenon arc, with fewer "spikes" of spectral output (even though they both have similar color temperature). It's much the same reason many people feel fluorescent lighting (mercury vapor discharge excited phosphors) has poorer color rendition than daylight or tungsten lighting, even when the phosphors are chosen to have a "high color rendering index".

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-29-2001, 09:32 AM:

I hate the opaque tape. A couple of years ago, at the first theatre where I worked, we were using large reels with changeovers. I threw out a large package of white tape and bought (yes, out of my own pocket) clear tape instead. As others have mentioned, the white tape is difficult to peel (it usually leaves goo on the film) and looks and sounds terrible.

I find splices by feel, so I really don't think that white or zebra tape makes breakdowns any easier than clear (and the difficulty of peeling makes it harder, actually). The only time I would even want zebra tape in the booth is for dealing with old, splicy prints, where the zebra stripes can be used to distinguish between repair splices and reel-break splices. Otherwise, I want clear tape only.

As for carbons--yes, some theatres still use them. I prefer the look of carbon _if_ the projectionist is competent. Poorly maintained or run carbon-arc setups are a disaster, with color temperature varying all over the place. In addition to theatres, there are other applications for carbon-arc lighting; many theatres, arenas, convention centers, etc. have carbon-arc spotlights (usually Strong Super Troupers), which use a screw-feed mechanism which is kind of similiar to (but simpler than) a carbon-arc lamp for a film projector.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-29-2001, 12:42 PM:

You should take all of your opaque tape down to the box office and put it in the Scotch tape dispensers and buy yourself some decent tape. Personally, I don't have a problem with Zebra tape as long as you're careful not to get any of the yellow on the soundtrack and keep the crossbar right ON the frame line. Better yet, don't use the crossbar part. No matter... Clear tape is better.

I don't see what the problem is using carbons. Yeah, I can understand how lazy people would let them get out of whack but anybody with half a brain can learn to use them. It only took me about a DAY to learn the basics and probably a week to start getting used to them. By the end of that week I was even starting to make adjustments without even using the arc-scope. (Ashcraft Super Cinex) There were times when I was making adjustments almost instinctively... You just KNOW when it's time to check the trim. It's like ESP or something.

I just think the whole arguement, whether it be tape or carbons or anything else, comes down to one common denominator: LAZY PEOPLE!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-29-2001, 02:24 PM:

When I used zebra tape (the good Neumade kind, not the horrible dim yellow kind with the three "dashes" across it) I never put the crossbar on the print. We spliced the clear part in the frame and two yellow bars would be on the very edge of the film (SDDS track). You can peel the Neumade tape off... you can't peel that other stuff off. That other stuff should absolutely be outlawed.

That was a long time ago. It's been awhile since I used zebra tape.

So if I prefer xenons that means I am lazy?

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 10-29-2001, 02:27 PM:

Yes, carbons are excellent and I do agree about light quality!

I had heard several rumors about the EPA making it illegal to use carbons indoors. The carbon manufacturers told me that this is a false industry rumor intended to promote xenon. Whereas xenon emits ozone, yes carbons do emit soot and ash. But this is not a problem with proper ventalation according to building codes.

Tucson Parks and Recreation had some Strong Carbon Arc Super Trouper Follow Spots that were installed and used in the Tucson Convention Center for years. They were removed and are now used for special outdoor events. The last time I saw them, they were spotless and in imaculate condition--they looked new!

Some of the complaints that I hear about carbons on a regular basis is that they go bad due to improper storage. As long as they are stored in a warm dry place laying down they should be ok. If they are to be stored for a long time individually vacume wraping a negative and positive as a set may be a good option?

Also, shame, shame to anyone who would run a film with multiple layers of splicing tape! Bad for the film and the projection equipment!

Yes, that oblique crap tape is a real pain to remove and does leave a nasty residue! That clear splicing tape from the UK (the name escapes me--brain dump) is excellent!

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-29-2001, 06:16 PM:

I, too, would never use opaque tape. Why is it even made??? I have no problem with zebra tape, and I do put the line across the frame line. I have never seen it on screen.

Isn't this topic about managers in the booth???? Here's my take. I am a manager, because like many, my company does not have "projectionists." I love working shifts on the floor just as much as I do in the booth. But in general, I think the m/o idea is a really bad one if you force every manager to also work projection, and everyone who works projection to also work on the floor. Someone who is great with customer service or paper work or counting money may suck as a projectionist. I have found this to be the case many times. Most of the managers I have worked with do not truly care about "Film Done Right." (I could probably write an essay on the little things I have seen done wrong that totally bug the out of me.) However, I don't mind the idea of m/o's if a manager who is truly interested in film done right wants to learn projection. But it has to be the ones who really care, and most of them don't.

Posted by Craig Hanham (Member # 1010) on 10-29-2001, 06:27 PM:

Good Call Ken.
What does it matter the job title Film Done Right is the WHOLE point!!!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-29-2001, 08:02 PM:

Joe, the inside of your lamphouses are probably so clean you could cook a chicken inside them.

Prefering one technology over another doesn't make you lazy. Being lazy makes you prefer one technology over another because it LETS you be lazy if you are that kind of person.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-29-2001, 09:16 PM:

But I LIKE being lazy!

Posted by Daniel Boisson (Member # 1027) on 10-29-2001, 10:08 PM:

we use yellow tape. only because the head projectionist is starting to get old, and so its just easier to him. i personally cant stand it when i see a movie.

i can see why managers should know how to start movies, but if they are only managers, they really don't need to be trained to do everything. i don't like it, it feels like my job is being undermined.

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...My brain's always wrapped...

Posted by Nicole Malfa (Member # 1017) on 10-30-2001, 11:52 AM:

I understand your problem completely. I am a supervisor/projectionist where i work and we just hired a new manager. The guy claims he went to school for projecting and he can handle it on his own. So we all let him go up to the booth and 10 minutes later we had a brainwrap and two movies that just stopped because he didn't thread the projectors correctly. Then the guy instead of learning from his mistakes runs out of the theater and is never heard from again.

Posted by Paul Harnden (Member # 1034) on 10-30-2001, 04:04 PM:

I've had almost similar incidents like Nicole's where managers come up on there first times and screw things up and then walk away, leaving me to deal with it.
When I was starting out a fellow manager snuck some of his friends into the booth to give them a tour and to generally look all intelligent. Well as luck should have it, one of the films brainwrapped, and I walked in to find him, surrounded by his friends, with film going every which way from the CFU. He asked for my help and about 5-10 minutes later I had it all untangled and fixed.
I have little problem with managers in the booth, as long as they're willing to put the time and effort that is needed to learn and operate the projectors properly. Sure, some might screw things up, but as long as they're willing to own up and try to fix it, then I'm fine with that also.

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 10-30-2001, 04:27 PM:

This is where I usually come to the defense of managers whenever there is a thread bashing them. However, I am going to be sightly different and state that NO ONE, no matter what their position or title, belongs in the booth unless they are properly trained. If you have some new guy who claims to have been trained somewhere else, than you watch them to be sure that they really know what they are doing. Everybody has different standards and many times different projectors. Learning how to run one type of projector or even platter system dosn't mean that they can jump right on to another with minimal training. Lastly although I am all for people learning things the hard way (Harsh lessons are usually hard to forget), the booth is a major exception. Film is very delicate. The slighest little error or misthread and the mistake is there for life. With apologies to Brad, I have yet to see anything including FilmGuard fix a scratched print.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-30-2001, 05:05 PM:

"Then the guy instead of learning from his mistakes runs out of the
theater and is never heard from again."

Actually, Nicole, the guy did you a favor!

As the equipment gets more automated, the bean-counters will think projectionists are less necessary. That's the way it goes, I guess.

Regarding carbon-arc; Really, it's better off gone. It was just too much work. I agree that the colors look better, etc. but improvment did not outweigh the disadvantages. Besides, can you imagine the average multiplex usher running carbon-arcs? I'd be happy if the building didn't burn down, never mind the print condition.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 10-30-2001, 05:47 PM:

Well John:

Carbon arc being too much work...your going to have to explain that one. But you are right in that carbon arc would not be approperiate for a large multiplex and would not be suitable with platters as carbons only last for a few reels.

As far as fires resulting from carbons. Once again you are going to have to explain that one. Remember the following.

Projection carbons are different from welding carbons! Welding carbons are a no no--and I have seen inexperienced operators try to use them!

It is imperative that carbons be properly stored--or they can be ruined.

When using carbons, do have the fire shield glass installed on the projector. This is really really critical with nitrate film!

Never, Never attempt to look at the arc directly--whether carbon or xenon! Actually I have been exposed to arc flash during arc welding twice. Once from a fluke defect in the welding mask and once from someone elses horseplay! Arcflash is not fun and can permanently blind you in a split second!

Whether working with xenon or carbon arc, always wear proper protective clothing to prevent injury.

Many of you probably destroy your used xenon bulbs in a garbage dumpster or the like? With carbons, always, always deposite used carbons in a sealed metal hazmat can with kitty litter. You might even cool them with a little water. Toss them away everynight in the garbage dumpster ONLY AFTER THEY HAVE THOURGHLY COOLED!

As long as the carbon arc lamphouse is properly sealed, is well maintained and cleaned, and is properly vented along with the projector fireshield hood glass, there should be no danger of a fire.

Am I missing anything, anyone?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-30-2001, 06:42 PM:

Will said: "...always deposite used carbons in a sealed metal hazmat can with kitty litter."

I assume you mean NON-FLAMMABLE (clay-based) kitty litter. Actually, when I worked with carbon lamps, we put the hot carbon ends directly into the fire-proof cans without any sand or litter (rattle-rattle). Just be sure NOT to use the cans as a trash can for flammable materials.

We collected the copper drippings for the Will Rogers fund.

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 10-30-2001, 08:44 PM:

Now there is a memory. Copper drippings for the Will Rogers fund. Let's not forget the "Silver" jaws.

Posted by Craig Hanham (Member # 1010) on 10-30-2001, 10:35 PM:

"Carbons too much work"
How tired can you be. If the lamp is running properly there isnt that muc work.
But i agree not appropiate for platter and only just for 6000' reels.
For a low use house c/o they are fine, and relatively easy to use but hard enough to stop fiddlers.
Anyway nuff said I would love to change to Xenon and 6000' reels and sell a projector but cant justify the cost.

Doesnt matter who comes to my booth as long as they follow MY rules.

Dont touch or I cut your fingers off.
You touch you leave without touching the stairs.
If i think you have touched you never come back.
If you upset me just piss off.

See simple rules even a 3 year old understands. my dog certainly does. As for the bean counters put it in their language; ie you touch and that requires callout from technician which blows out the maintenance budget and requires more capital cost.
they seem to understand that if not refer above.
Did I mention I am a manager

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-30-2001, 11:01 PM:

Will;

Like anything I say, it's really just my own opinion, based on my past experience.

When I ran carbons, it was non-stop work. By the time the lamp was cleaned, I had washed up, previous reel was rewound, the next reel was threaded .... it was time to make the c/o and do it all over again. I never had to rush; there was plenty of time to do everything. But I couldn't do nothing, either. We were not allowed to leave right after the last reel ended. We had to wait until the lamp cooled down enough to clean off the silver jaws to prevent permanent tarnishing.

My comment about fire is from dust up the stack. This was heavily stressed by older operators, and by the state police at the time of my test for an operators license (the state police regulate projectionists in Connecticut.) At one place that did not have a regularly-scheduled operator, all the temporary operators thought, "The regular guy must be cleaning the stack; I won't bother." There wasn't a fire, but it was close.

While this is going on, the arc on the operating projector has to be checked and tweeked. In two places I worked at, the electric AC voltage was not regulated that well- you could not rely on the self-feed. The lamp wouldn't go out, but it wouldn't keep the crater centered in the mirror focal point. When I worked in the open plains of middle New Jersey, the strong winds blowing outside during fall would sometimes blow down the stack, and put out the arc. You knew right away, because the feed motor would go full speed ... "BUZZZZZZZ....!"

In one place, there was no air conditioning in the booth (it was in the theater auditorium, though!) Nothing like being in a small booth with a small window on a hot summer day hefting 70mm reels every 20 min. (for 8-10 hours) while running Ashcraft 150's. In Connecticut, you had to have real fire trap rollers on the projectors, not the simple things in use now. Fire trap rollers will easily scratch film (especially 70mm) if they don't roll, so regular cleaning is needed there, too.

We simply dropped stubs in a deep tray. The tray had a notch filed on the edge. Any stub shorter than the notch was too short to use. The first person in for the day would just throw the stubs away in the regular garbage, since the stub had all night to cool.

I'm happy to report that 99% of the shows I ran were uneventful. But like anyone who has run carbons for awhile, I can tell stories of things like; forgetting to tighten the collet on the carbon rod, or watching arc water-cooling hoses jump because of no water flow, guessing wrong on how long a carbon stub would last (silver jaws weren't cheap even then), cheap carbon-savers that (because of heat) would let go of the carbon stub, being forced to use cheap carbon rods after UC discontinued their line, fans that died and by the time you find out - your mirror is cracked, carbon ends that drop off and burn funny until a clean end is burned (with people yelling about the poor light the whole time).

Carbon arcs are like those old restored, Model-T Ford fire engines you see. They are really cool, love to see them operate during the firehouse "open house", hope they never go away, but sure don't want to depend on them for my livelihood!

Sadly, as far as the copper dripping were concerned, the lead operator had his own fund.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-31-2001, 10:16 AM:

Copper dripping went to the projectionist's beer fund

I ran carbons for years with no major complaints other than it was more work

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 10-31-2001, 02:38 PM:

Thanks John Pytlak for clearifying my "kitty litter" useage. I got into the habit of using this as a generic term. One thing that I do not remember being discussed on Film-Tech is OSHA standards and MSDS books/standards.

John Walsh: As far as the fire pinch rollers--I too have heard about them damaging film. But please keep in mind that those were one of the fire prevention standards for use with nitrate film. They can be eliminated when only using safety film, but i believe that the holders are needed in order to mount magazines if they are used. I also know what you are speaking of regarding hot unventilated booths running changeovers with a toilet right behind the projectors!

Fire prevention devices for use with non safety film as mandated by law included much of the following:

Booth being totally sealed from auditorium with metal shields over each port window connected by chain to a shaft with fusable links. Each projector and booth exit had an emerengcy handle to drop these shields over the booth windows in case of fire.

Enclosed magazines.

Fire loop shoe on projector that would trip and drop projector fire shutter in case of film breakage.

Projector fire shield glass

Fire pinch rollers

Already discussed metal cans for spent carbons.

Sealed metal storage bin for each reel of the print being shown

Isolated print storage room

Another isolated storage area for flamable booth supplies

The Tucson Fox Theater--a 1929 movie palace now being restored and due to reopen in 2003 had much of this stuff. It also had a posted metal sign in the booth regarding safety measures.

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 10-31-2001, 08:10 PM:

Hey Will, When I first started as a projectionist in 1971, about my 3rd. month into the job, at a theatre that had everything you said above, a fire inspector came into the booth & wanted to see my operators permit, I said I didn't know anything about a permit, the inspector told me that it was a law that all theatres operators had a permit or I would be fined, possible go to jail & the theatre would be shut down !!!

I was so scared being 17 & my first real job, I called our local union rep. he said that the theatres use safety film now, it's an old law on the books, he said to have the inspector call the union office....two days later the inspector returned, pissed off, just hoping to take me to jail

, when I told him what was said to me, he said he will call the union, talk to the city attorney, will be back tomorrow with an answer on which they will pursue....he returned the next day, apologize, said it was an old outdated law :O ....whooaa weeee, I slept better that night... :P:

Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 11-01-2001, 03:08 PM:

Yellow splicing tape? Well, yes there are all kinds of tape on the market. I think now that most of us use the clear stuff. If that is what Kristen's theatre was supplying then that is what she had to use. No sense dumping on her < Bill.

In my booth I use clear splicing tape but place a small grease pencil line on the joint and then cover it with the tape. This keeps it from getting on the print or equipment ana makes the join easy to see when tearing down. The line is hidden by the shutter so no one sees it.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 11-02-2001, 11:31 AM:

Hi Don

Thanks for bringing that up about the permit. I had also been told by projectionists of yesteryear that their Union Cards and Licenses were posted in the box office--by law and not kept in their wallets. The purpose for this I was told was to be able to ID the projectionist in case of cremation due to a nitrate fire!

Posted by Brian Hogan (Member # 940) on 02-05-2002, 02:59 PM:

so i recently transfered to the local 24 plex from an 18. i would frequently watch movies at the 18 after my closing manager shifts because i wouldnt be able to watch them any other time. thanks to my few years as a projectionist prior to when i became manager, i always threaded and started the movie myself. never a problem.

a couple weeks ago in the 24 i came in to watch brotherhood of the wolf with some friends (who all work projection at another theatre) who had not seen the movie yet. they hepled me move the print and, afetr i examined the different platter stack, threaded the movie and started it. i saw the closing projectionist and felt i should inform him that i moved and started a print so he wouldnt freak out when he saw it playing.

"that sort of activity is frowned upon here.", he said to me. "i know you are the manager and you have the final say, but next time have a projectionist do that for you."

i guess its a good thing to take ownership of the booth so that things are done right, but i am the manager. if i scratch the film or blow up the projector, thats my ass... not the projectionist's. he doesnt seem to grasp that notion.

so now, i go in often for after hours screenings, even though it seems to be frowned upon by the master of the booth

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-05-2002, 04:43 PM:

Sorry Brian. I have to agree with the projectionist. Unless you are up there regularly you might not be aware of idiosyncracies or problems. As a manager/operator I would run film for myself. As a manager or DM, NEVER.

You also undermine pride in the projectionist and his pride of presentation when you "share" like this. I've know good projectionists who would as soon share their girlfriends as the booth.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 02-05-2002, 07:11 PM:

I agree with Jerry!

I have seen a g.m. who would go for months w/o stepping foot in a booth. A few times the person tried to thread up machines and the projectionist preempted possible aw !

Sure, if you make a mistake and damage film/equipment it is your ass.....but what about the patrons who paid good $$ to see a quality presentation....do they deserve to be subjected to damaged prints? As John P. would say.....FILM DONE RIGHT !

Generally speaking, if we did after hours screenings it had a purpose. Used studio prints that were first run features for inspection prior to opening day, prints that may have been difficult to build up, etc, etc...remember that the theater is a business and not your private screening room....what you do costs the theater $$.
Unlike IATSE, I only wish that I got paid for dry runs...especially for films I did not care much about watching.... !

Posted by Miguel Angel Martorell (Member # 1110) on 02-05-2002, 07:36 PM:

In one of the multicinemas I work for, the office of the manager is INSIDE!! of the booth but he never touches a projector or tell us how to do our work and I´m sure he can thread a projector but it isn´t his job. In the other cinemas I work, the managers usually doesn´t know the difference between a projector and a microwave oven so usually don´t visit us.

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Posted by Brian Hogan (Member # 940) on 02-05-2002, 11:27 PM:

ah, yes... each booth is different, this is very true. but i see i failed to mention that the same guru of projection that got pissed at me failed to remove a glue splice out of a film when the maintenance manager told him about it. and wouldnt you know it, the very next day that film had an interruption caused by the very glue splice he was well aware of and failed to remove. all this because he felt the maintenance manager had no idea what he was talking about.

Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 02-06-2002, 12:12 AM:

Glue splice?

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--"That's my story and i'm sticking to it!"--

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 02-06-2002, 02:51 AM:

Cement splices are not used anymore. They don't work on polyester film.

Ultrasonic splices (some people call 'em "lab splices") can last longer then tape splices if they are properly made. There is no reason to assume that just because there's an ultrasonic splice in a film that it's going to break. Unless your projectors eat film (a rectifiable situation) or you're psychic.

As for the private screenings, every time a film is run it is put at risk of damage. Therefore, films should not be run more than necessary.

Personally, if I want to see a show, I either screen it on Thursday night or watch a public show. If I can't work that into my schedule, I either don't watch it or rent it on DVD. I rent a lot of DVDs.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-06-2002, 04:07 AM:

I've got to agree strongly with Jerry on this one too. (And no this has nothing to do with your current picture.) While you are most probably the exception, the cold hard fact is that when *most* managers who have not threaded in weeks, months, or several years cover for a projectionist and thread, *most* of the prints get damaged. A very valid point was also made about projectionist's pride in their presentation. I feel pretty strongly about that and if I was running a theater and a manager came in after hours and decided to run a film and one of the regular projectionists threaded it up...it's "no problem, just press start, enjoy the show, I'm leaving". If the manager goes in and threads it, there WILL be tension because managers do not thread every day and are usually a bit *out of practice*, plus all it takes is one performance to completely ruin a print and that would reflect poorly on ME! Not cool. Not one bit. Also moving a print to a "preferred" theater is out of the question. Prints should never be moved if not necessary. Your moving the print for an after hours screening means that the chances of it throwing or something going wrong are multiplied because #1 there is no operator in the booth checking over things randomly during the show and #2 the print was just moved, meaning it will have a better tendency to slide around on the deck.

Not trying to be an ass here, but really do consider the position you are putting that projectionist in. I think you will find if you ask the regular operators to thread it up in the same auditorium it is currently residing in and all you have to do is press "start" you won't get any slack about it in return.

On another note Adam is absolutely correct, polyester prints can only be "lab spliced" ultrasonically...and those do not break unless there is something seriously wrong with the equipment, or the film was threaded incorrectly, resulting in stress on the splice that weakened it. I assemble ALL of my prints with an ultrasonic splicer and they do not break.

Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 02-06-2002, 04:50 AM:

In reply to you all regarding management in the booth and yellow splicing tape.
Unfortunately in our ten-plex in Seattle we, meaning our union, has given up 3 shifts per week to management. They are trained, and I mean trained, by us, the union projectionists. We do not let them go solo until we, the union projectionists, feel they are qualified to run the booth. Until recently the only functions the management people were to perform were to thread, start, focus, frame and splice in case of a break. Now I hear they can move prints if that becomes necessary, which in most cases it does not. We've got them trained so if anything goes wrong on any of their shifts they are to let us know. I guess this covers our ass in case they do some print damage. We have been very lucky in that the management people do have some sense of a good presentation and we have few problems.
My partner in crime and I do all the print builds. We using nothing but what we call Tiger Tape from Neumade. So far, in the past ten years, we've had no problems with it. It's easy to peel when breaking down and it's not noticeable on-screen.
We never use yellow or white tape and probably never will.

Posted by Bob Koch (Member # 1062) on 02-06-2002, 08:36 PM:

When I see some of these posts I really feel fortunate that I lived in the best of times. A manager in the booth was unheard of unless, it was of a personal nature or he was bored and you allowed him in there. He certainly did`nt belong there. The union protected us from these offal and I hope some of you don`t entertain the thought ,that, just because we were union members we did not posses technical skills. After my time in the booth I worked for RCA,Altec , Dolby and Lucasfilm TAP and no one said I was a dullard because I had an IATSE card in my back pocket. The xenon arc, the platter played in to the Arabian type exhibitors hands and now you have the complete rodent fornication that allows interplay between the popcorn and the projection room and the alleged manager. I just don`t understand how you can think anything about presentation when you are looking at 6 or seven screens with less than 300 chairs in the auditoriums. There must be something here I`m not seeing. I know from this site there must be many of you who are dedicated, but it must very difficult for you to be rewarded, not only financially, but with praise for your efforts with the niggardly,bean-counting circuits we have today. I`m glad I worked in the time frame I did. Good, promotional managers, who could have cared less about the booth if you were doing your job arc lamps and large auditoriums to work to and circuit offices many miles away that had not as yet come onto the brainstorm of picking people off the street or from the Greyhound Depot to install in the projection room. .

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 02-06-2002, 09:14 PM:

Peter, why did you have to give up 3 shifts per week, and train these jokers? I sure hope you were well compensated for passing on your knowledge!

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 02-06-2002, 09:42 PM:

Bob, Seen any good movies lately? Umm, never mind, on second thought that seems pretty unlikely.

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 02-06-2002, 10:37 PM:

Ok, not to get on anyone's bad side here but I feel bad that Brian is left all alone on this one. I have to side with him...

It's true that many managers don't know a projector from a microwave , but those are the ones who are usually not in the booth in the first place.

I agree that the projectionist runs the booth, but what happens if the projectionist has to train someone? Why not train the manager so if something happens to the projectionist they can cover for them instead of being left out in the cold to mess up the booth. There are many circumstances where both sides of this argument could be correct. It just depends on where you are, how your booth is run, and what your manager is like. (I know, some of the managers don't want to be taught and maybe think they know it all...I understand complaining about people like that)

As a manager who tries my best (I'm the first to admit I'm not a natural) in the booth and knows many MANY others who do the same, downing on all managers in the booth just isn't fair. Certain instances (naming no names) I know a manager who is actually better then the projectionist in the booth...what about him? Should he not go in the booth of the building he is running just because there are union guys up there?

We run the building, if anything goes wrong in the booth (depending on the theater) we are the ones who have to take the heat from either the owners or the upper management. Saying that a manager should not run a show in my opinion is not fair. If you really think your managers are that bad, why don't you try to help them instead of complaining about them? (Please forgive me if you have tried to help them or teach them, I only know from the theaters I have worked at and every one of them had managers that cared about film presentation as much as the projectionists...in some cases the managers were the projectionists) It just seems like the projectionists do not give us a chance....TEACH US!!!

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Brad, you're pretty darn Chipper yourself!!!

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 02-07-2002, 01:23 AM:

OK, Im gonna keep this more restrained than I really Want to. I am not going to give my opinion of the IATSE, I really really want to but for legal reasons I cant right now, But boy do I want to. I could tell you things that would make everyone on this forum cry. IMHO Managers are responsible for thier building. If anyone told me I shouldnt or couldnt be somewhere in MY building. That would be the end of that. I am a projectionist as well as a manager. I was a full time projectionist before my management career and can run a better booth than a lot of poeple I know who do that soley. Anyone who says that because someone is a manager they cant run a booth is stupid, and ignorant. Oh BTW Thank you Rachel.

Posted by Jacob Huber (Member # 1138) on 02-07-2002, 02:26 AM:

At my theatre, all of the male and one of the female managers that I know started as floorstaff and worked their way up through the ranks, including a long stint as projectionist, before becoming managers, so they pretty much know as much, if not more than even the head projectionit(s). This being said, if one of us doesn't know the answer to a question, the manager on duty usually does, since s/he has probably been in the same boat at one time or another. And if all esle fails, we ring our 24 hour tech support guy, who also was a projectionist before becoming a manager before becoming tech support guy.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 02-07-2002, 02:42 AM:

Assume that we all know that there are managers who know the projection booth and then there are managers who think they know the booth.

Now, since we're talking about a situation where a manager is new to a theater, we can assume that the projectionist doesn't really know if the manager is as good in the booth as he says he is.

For that matter, let's just drop the manager designation all together. If you were in charge of this large booth, would you just set someone (manager, DM, projectionist) free to move prints and run films on their own without working with that person a little bit and getting to know that person and their abilities?

What would the response be if the manager walked into the office to find the projectionist closing out the box office out of the blue?

At least he was polite about a stranger playing with his baby.

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 02-07-2002, 03:41 AM:

But, not to sound like I'm pulling rank or ignorant. The manager runs the whole building (including booth)...the projectionist just runs the booth, there has to be some sort of compromise. The manager and projectionist have to learn to work together. I let my projectionist run the booth completly but if something happens while its my shift (no matter who is up there), I take the blame.

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Brad, you're pretty darn Chipper yourself!!!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-07-2002, 03:52 AM:

I agree with BOTH sides here, but in a theater you've got THE manager, and then some assistant managers below that person and then supervisors under them and so forth and so on. The manager can not actually run the entire theater, otherwise there would be no need for staff. Thus, the manager has to delegate the jobs to people and what is trying to be said here is that many projectionists take their jobs VERY seriously. Heck, I've heard there are even entire web sites dedicated to "film done right"!!! Can you believe that craziness?

So what I think the guys are trying to say is that when a theater has a *good* projectionist who takes his job very seriously and feels his presentation is a personal reflection on him (like me and a lot of others here), when a manager (who has every right in the world to come up into the booth and do whatever he/she wants) decides to run a movie and basically walks right by the projectionist, moves a print to his "preferred" auditorium and then threads it up and runs it, that IS being rude and it definitely shows off as arrogance. Sorry, but it is.

Now on the flip side, what about the theaters with *decent* projectionists where the managers are actually much better operators? Simple. Those *decent* projectionists aren't going to give a flip about what happens! They are just there for weekend beer money. Sure there will be some projectionists who aren't as good of an operator as the manager, but the way I feel about it, the manager should think back to the last time something went wrong with the shows and had to hand out passes. Has it been awhile? How about the prints? Are they clean and scratch-free? Basically, if the presentation is very good or better, LET the projectionist be an arrogant little shit...because he is giving you a great presentation! Now if the presentation isn't too swinging, push him out of the way and let him storm off and quit. Then you can get someone GOOD in there.

I think Mrs.Chipper said it best though. The manager and projectionist HAVE to learn to work together. Show the projectionist a bit of respect and odds are that projectionist will show you respect in return.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-07-2002, 11:02 AM:

If you are a manager and your projectionist isn't close to or above the quality projectionist you are, you have problems. Those problems are best handled by training and instilling a sense of pride, not by running your own shows.

Brad hit on a key point, delegation of duties. Many circuits load stuff on a manager and reduce staff until the manager gets the attitude that he is a jack of all trades. Stepping into an employee's job may seem normal, but it is not.

I can't envision most of the folks here deciding an auditorium isn't clean enough, and going in and cleaning it themselves after hours when there is a janitor on the payroll. Admit it, being able to run projectors has a fun and cool factor which sometimes seems more important than respecting the person whose job it is to run them.

Yeah, as a manager you are responsible for the entire building. It does NOT give carte blance to do whatever you want. There are rules and guidelines set up by corporate or owners because -guess what- THEY are ALSO responsible for the entire building.

I was a DM long enough to learn that shit runs downhill, and if a manager or assistant screwed a print, somehow it got blamed on the guy "we trained in the booth, but fired last week."

I wonder if some of the managers moving prints and doing their own showings are doing it because they want confrontation with the projectionist. Of course, every situation is different, so that brush might be a little broad.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 02-07-2002, 11:19 AM:

Thank you, Brad. I meant to make that point about THE manager and the rest of the management team. I strongly agree about the two areas working together and make it a point to show up every week for the Tuesday managers' meeting.

And if you've got a link to that film-done-right thing, I'd love to have a look!

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 02-07-2002, 02:39 PM:

Anything but clear splicing tape should be outlawed.

Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 02-07-2002, 06:13 PM:

Even Ultra sonic splicers?

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--"That's my story and i'm sticking to it!"--

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 02-07-2002, 10:51 PM:

Jerry said, "If you are a manager and your projectionist isn't close to or above the quality projectionist you are, you have problems."

Most managers I know started off as floor staff and most of them made their way to projectionist before becoming a manager.

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Brad, you're pretty darn Chipper yourself!!!

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-08-2002, 12:10 AM:

Yep. Very true, Chipper. If you are a manager and know more than the fellows and gals in the booth, you need to be sharing that knowledge. If the booth people can't or won't learn, they need to leave. Ideally, each generation should know more than the preceeding generation. In most theatres that isn't realistic, but making sure standards are set and retained is possible. Training is different than running shows for yourself. Training is an investment that should pay dividends. Running the show yourself is lost time that can't be reclaimed.

Posted by Brian Hogan (Member # 940) on 02-08-2002, 12:44 AM:

the only reason i moved the print is because it was on the platter stack of one of our four biggest houses. i moved the print to a smaller house so that i could utilize a lower wattage xenon bulb and not waste the limited hours off of the higher wattage bulb in the big house.

geez... cant believe 2½ pages were added to this thread from my original post. thats awesome.

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 02-08-2002, 01:54 AM:

Jerry,
You say something to the effect that if the projectionist(s) can't or won't learn then they need to leave. As much as I agree with you there I'm sure you know as well as I do how hard it is to find someone willing to do the job adequately for what the exhibitors are willing to pay.

My current projectionist is great and although he enjoys his job he really can't afford to keep working there. He does make just under what an assistant makes at that theatre, it's still not enough for someone as skilled as he is. From what I understand the previous projectionist had that title by default.

I would hazard a guess that there are managers who don't know what quality presentation really looks/sounds like and they may think their half-assed projectionist is doing a great job - a "booth god" even - only because he can come in and turn on the center channel amp when they forget and wonder why they can't hear the dialogue. Or come in on his day off and open the curtains when the picture looks all folded and blue.

My real home is in the booth and I'm transferring to a single screen theatre and I won't have a projectionist there. Fortunately my new assisstant is booth-savvy as well.

Please don't trash me for being a manager/operator as that's just how things are where I'm at. If this were 1954 I know I'd be adjusting carbons eight hours a day rather than running up and down the stairs threading film, tearing tickets, selling popcorn, unclogging toilets, counting money, adjusting sound, greeting customers, cleaning gates, displacing anger, filing reports, arranging shipments, ordering concessions, building up prints, leading meetings, etc. etc. etc...

That's not to say that with a good audience, a fabulous staff and upper-management with a sincere appreciation of quality presentation (with respect to a limited-sometimes-teetering-on-bankruptcy budget)the job is by any means miserable... I really can't get over some of you who apparently work in deplorable conditions. I guess if and when you do get that 'perfect job' you'll have a reason to say "it could be worse!".

I think I wandered off...Now what was this thread about?

By the way, Kerchinsky, good to see you on the site! Thanks for all you taught me in Seattle!

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-08-2002, 08:26 AM:

Mathew, I've been a manager/operator myself (at singles, twins, six and eight plexes). I've nothing against manager/operators. My point was that if the booth is large enough to require a dedicated projectionist, the booth should be his or her territory. What comes with that territory is a responsibility to learn the job.

I know how hard it can be to get quality staff. I used to be amazed at some of the employment applications that came in to theatres. That doesn't mean that finding someone good in the booth is impossible if you check the right places. A high-school counselor might know of a mechanically inclined student needing work-study. A retiring auto mechanic might want to pick up a few hours. There are alternative places to look for employees.

The concept I'm trying to promote is that people who are treated like line workers will act like line workers. People who are treated like they have responsibility and standards to uphold will often act appropriately. Those that don't need to move to a situation where they can be treated like line workers.

The concept isn't new. It is even used in concession and other positions. An employee is given the lead position, a set of guidelines and told to take charge of the trainees and less capable workers. The person learns to lead, the trainees are trained, and the manager is freed to do other duties.

Some people want to go through life being told what to do, working as little as possible and soaking up the maximum amount of television and beer. Dump 'em.

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 02-10-2002, 08:29 PM:

Just to make all of the projectionists happy that have participated in this forum, I have to tell a story.

Tonight, while counting the stock room (which is in the projection booth) I stopped and threaded a film in our theatre #7 for practice and to help my projectionist. On my way downstairs he was heading back upstairs after his break and I warned him to check the projector before running it (I never trust myself if someone else is starting the film). He called me downstairs and told me that my loops were off a bit but other then that it was fine. We weren't all that busy so when the next show let out I headed back upstairs to do the same thing....Same outcome, my loops were not sufficiant for him....grrr But he did say they were better. Next show, the same thing....this time he stayed with me while I was threading, he pointed out a couple to tricks to make threading easier and I got the loops right (or at least he said that to make me happy ). I hate threading....I hate doing the booth....but I do want to know how to run it the way my projectionist runs it so I do not mess up his way of doing things.

If you are a manager it doesn't take much to ask the projectionist for help and to show you how s/he runs the booth. It may take a couple minutes a day but will be worth it to make the projectionist happy and to maybe even teach you a couple of new things. No one knows everything, no matter how long you've been doing it.

*I do have experiance running projectors at 2 other theaters where I was the mng/proj but this equiptment is quite different and teaching an old dog new tricks can be difficult.

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Brad, you're pretty darn Chipper yourself!!!

Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 02-11-2002, 04:38 AM:

First of all hello to Matt. Good to hear from you again. We miss you in Seattle.
Second of all, I agree with everything you all have to say about this management/booth topic. There are, of course, pros an cons, but it seems to be working well here in the Emerald City with Landmark, except of course with our 10-plex. We've got a bunch of really good people working with us and as Matt can tell you, they are GOOD theater people.
Good night all.

Posted by Roy Claflin (Member # 1113) on 02-13-2002, 02:12 AM:

In our building, only one manager really does anything in the booth, and only on Thursdays. At least it used to be that way.

About two weeks ago, the booth manager started taking one shift a week in the booth. This happens to be on a slow night, when not all of the shows will run. I find myself wondering if he's staying in practice with that one shift. I mean, even if I tried to tell him about all of the idiosyncracies with our 22 projectors, I know I'd leave something out. And it bothers me. The rest of the week is divided between myself and another projectionist. So we know everything that's going on. Also, the management relies on me to fix anything that could go wrong, to the point of calling me at home on my days off. And those guys just aren't practicing enough. I take a lot of pride in my presentation, and I don't mind changing Xenon lamps or cleaning lenses and such. But I hate to hear a print got scratched or Dolby Digital track won't play because of excessive wear. So if I had my way, I'd keep my managers down on the floor where they're needed, and they can focus on what they already have time for, and leave the booth to me and my much older co-worker, regardless of policy.

On a side note, I was running low on clear tape and asked my booth manager to order some more. Three weeks later, he finally got around to it, but I ran out of the clear stuff just as I was starting a print of "A Beautiful Mind'. I had to build the rest of it using that God-awful yellow stuff. Afterwards, I found every roll of opaque tape in the booth, chucked them into the nearby woods, and announced we no longer had any opaque tape, either. Now, I'm well-stocked on the clear stuff, and I hope my booth manager never reads this.