Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Green Bands on Trailers

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Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 07-05-2000, 12:35 PM:

Do you leave them on or do you cut them off?

I work for AMC so unfortunately I have to cut them off. I have also worked for UA and Dickinson who leave them on.

Personally I would rather leave them on. Some people say they are "unprofessional," but I disagree for one main point. What about trailers with audio during the green band? Paramount seems to like to do this, and specifically the "Bringing Out the Dead" trailer had atleast a line and a half of dialogue. I had to cut it off so my guests had to suffer through it. What are everyone elses feelings?

I have thought about just leaving them on anyway, despite AMC policies. I have also considered leaving them on for just those trailers that have audio during the green band (it's not hard to look at tell). Oh, and I have to leave red bands on, go figure.

------------------
Dave Cutler

"Do or do not, there is no try."

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-05-2000, 12:43 PM:

IMHO, the rating tags should be left on, especially if removing them would cut off some of the soundtrack. Maybe a compromise would be to shorten the screen time to only a few seconds.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-05-2000, 01:31 PM:

Leave 'em on. That way when someone comes to a manager "that trailer is just not appropriate for this film", you can stick the MPAA's "approved for all audiences" back at them.

I leave them on personally to show off how clean the prints are. That was Cinemark's reason for cutting them off years ago. Someone told me AMC had the same reasoning, but I'm not completely sure.

Posted by Christopher K. Williams (Member # 418) on 07-05-2000, 01:43 PM:

We have to cut green bands off at our theater, and for the most part, I agree with that policy. They are repetitive and waste screen time. Whenever I watch a film at a theater that leaves them on, the audience starts groaning and getting impatient by the fifth green band. Also, the majority of the trailers we get have no audio on them before the actual trailer begins.

I do agree, though, that it would be better presentation to have the option to run green bands that do have audio, maybe cutting the silent part off.

As for red bands, we're not even allowed to put those trailers on screen, even on R-rated films.

Chris Williams
Regal Bella Bottega 11 Cinemas

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-05-2000, 02:10 PM:

Leave them on. It's good to have a pause for a few seconds between trailers, rather than having them shown in a rapid-fire sequence. More importantly, as others have mentioned, it's very tacky to cut off the opening part of the trailer's soundtrack and it would be inconsistant to mix and match trailers which have and don't have the band (and/or trailers with red bands and trailers with no bands). Of course, trailers that aren't rated won't have the bands, but those are rare in a mainstream multiplex environment.

What irks me more than missing rating bands, though, is theatres that cut off the tail of a trailer before the final fadeout. This almost always cuts off part of the soundtrack and looks generally tacky. Are people too lazy to measure out a foot of black film and cut on the frameline?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-05-2000, 02:24 PM:

I think your audience is groaning not because of the greenbands, but because you put so many damn trailers on your prints. I bet you have a lot of ads before the trailers as well, right?

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 07-05-2000, 02:30 PM:

If AMC's reason is to 'hide' dirt, I think I may just start showing them anyway. What a stupid reason. If they are dirty, THROW THEM AWAY!! If they can't be cleaned that is. I have more trailers than I could possible show. I typically (for a big release) have 10 or 12 copies of a trailer, in each format!! I think I can replace it easily enough.

I think it looks unprofessional not to show the ratings bands, and agree there should be a break between trailers. Who wants to jump from a high action trailer into a romantic comedy or a kids flick, there should be a break.

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 07-05-2000, 02:33 PM:

In defense of people cutting before final fadeout...

Regular practice (you are correct) should be to leave a bit or black film at the end of each trailers. Except when...

There are those nasty white bars on the side of the image. Hate 'em, gotta cut 'em off. Even after cutting them off you usually have plenty of black still, ocassionally not, but it looks better than white bars along the side of the screen.

Or if there is a sound pop at the end of the trailer. I usually find this with attatched trailers. During the 'credits' of the trailer there is a small (2 perf?) section that is missing the analog soundtrack. This just irks me, so I have to remove it. Even though I run 99% of all trailers in digital sound there is always a chance of having to run analog, in which case I want the best sound I can get.

Posted by Mitchell Cope (Member # 32) on 07-05-2000, 04:27 PM:

Where exactly is the last frame on a trailer that should be projected? Is there an applicable SMPTE standard that should be applied here? And what are those nasty white bars on the side of the image before the finish frame is reached?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-05-2000, 05:18 PM:

Dave,

In my experience those "nasty white bars" are always after the sound, picture, and everything has faded away on the trailers.

I used to cut the bands off but now I leave them on, due to the audio being in the band.

How many trailers do you all run? I try to put on no more than four, or five for a big hit movie.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-05-2000, 05:27 PM:

We run about the same amount of trailers at my theatre, but without any ads right now (kick ass!) Unfortunately that will change.

I hate the white bars. What are their purpose?

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 07-05-2000, 07:36 PM:

The Green or Red bands should be left on if you ask me. It gives you enough time to cleanse your pallette between trailers... otherwise, one action trailer would run into another and you'd never be able to tell them apart.

And there should NEVER be more than 10 minutes of trailers before ANY movie... jeesh. We put 4 trailers on a New Release and 2 or 3 on a move-over, and sometimes 4 is too many.

I remember when UA started putting 4 on in "Major Markets only" --- to believe that people are putting on FIVE?!?!

YIKES.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 07-06-2000, 12:10 AM:

Scott, I am REQUIRED to put on 5. I don't mind putting 5 on Disney flciks (no ads) but on non-Disney's...

I don't understand cutting trailers tails short. They always gvie you a cutting line anyway.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-06-2000, 02:22 AM:

Why is it that 90% of trailers today have to have some stupid one liner at the end that is supposed to be "funny"? Usually this is after the title of the movie is revealed, but before the creditd appear.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-06-2000, 03:41 AM:

What I want to know is why the MPAA cannot seem to get their act together and come up with ONE green band that looks FANTASTIC and make all the studios use THAT negative. I cannot stand the green bands that look like the xenon is not focused properly, have faded color, or that are printed out of frame!!!

Those side white "frame line marks" should be banned. They are incredibly annoying. What I do is find the first frame of black and cut 4 perforations over from that frameline. That ensures I get all the black leader possible (typically about 1-3 seconds which is just right) between trailers. The extra leader also protects the first frame of the green band. Theaters that cut right on a frame of the green band typically suffer from seeing the tape lines on the picture and a vertical jump, which looks very unprofessional in my book. I agree wholeheartedly with Scott that cutting the fade out of the last credit screen is just pathetic.

Posted by Tom Ferreira (Member # 70) on 07-06-2000, 08:02 AM:

It would be helpful if there were some kind of frame line at the end of trailers. It's kind of tough relying on guesswork in dim light to figure out where the frame lines are. Is this too difficult of a request? The studios seem to have no problem requesting trailer placement.
Speaking of green band, what's the deal with the Space Cowboys trailer that came with Perfect Storm? It seems to be grey band, going into black and white at the beginning of the trailer.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 07-06-2000, 08:31 AM:

Tom, all the trialers I get have framemarks os some sort at the end. Wether its the 4 little circles (one for each perf), the white side marks (I think you're supposed to cut these off, I cut them like Brad does), or sometimes (on Disney trailers I've noticed this) its an orange coloered frame. Cut the trailers just before these marks and you'll have the perfect amount of black.

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 07-06-2000, 08:43 AM:

It seems that there are three kinds of references that I use when cutting the end of the trailer.

1. |oooo| 4 circles at the tail. I usually cut right before the 4 circles start.

2. ^----^----^ Usually about 6-8 frames of notches with the white bar on the side. Cut before the start of this sequence.

3. Tail with varying, but frame(s) length brown. Find a single frame of brown or clear, cut it, then if you have a neumade splicer, just turn it around in the splicer and place almost a entire length in the splicer and cut, a perfect 8 frame cut.

I do this to preserve as much black leader at the tail as possible so that the transition is smooth. I can't stand sloppy work with ads or anything that people can't take the time to preserve black. They find the first visible frame and cut it.

Sorry for 2 sentence rant.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-06-2000, 11:00 AM:

Is there any pattern to the type of head and tail leader attached to trailers, either by distributor, laboratory, or trailer vendor? Many different labs print trailers, and their practices may vary, including the type and length of leader they attach to the negative for printing. Leader type may also be specified by the company producing the trailers.

For trailers not attached to features, how do you prefer to receive them?:

Heads or tails out?
Emulsion-in or emulsion-out?
No core, small 1-inch (25 mm) core, larger core?
Packaging? (loose, bags, boxes, cans)
Length of head leader?
Length of tail leader?
Leader type? (all black, framelines, "oooo" circles, clear)
Identification?
Other "wants"?

"Standardization" of trailers will be difficult, but there is a precedent in the work being done by the TASA committee regarding trailer sound levels.

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 07-06-2000, 11:09 AM:

How's this for pathetic. Currently I have on Perfect Storm...

NCN - Shell, Air Force and Nike
Movietickets.com ad
Coke ad
Preview Snipe
7 trailers!! (I hate that, 4 is plenty)
Silence is Golden Snipe
Feature Presentation Snipe

All in all it's almost 20 minutes, it makes me sick.

In my opinion there should be 4 trailers and only 4 trailers. No more, no less. NO ADVERTISEMENTS, my screen is not a big TV. If people wanted to see commercials they would have stayed at home.

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 07-06-2000, 11:23 AM:

John,

I have found that trailers of the same company will be pretty similar to each other except for headup and tailup.

IMHO, trailers should ship as follows...

1. Heads UP
2. Emulsion? Not a big deal with me. Out I guess since that's how my prints sit.
3. Small cores are just fine. Again not a big deal
4. Packaging is a null point as well (to me)
5. No more than 5 feet of head or tail. Why do we need a countdown on a trailer?
6. Clear leader with a clearly marked frame line to cut by. Not a hazy line but a well defined solid line.
7. Identification - I like that some studios have a 'personal' label, easier to tell them apart. But give me the company, title, aspect, version and sound formats on the label, and on the head. Why do I need a short description and who stars in it?
8. Shipped with a nice bow attatched would be great.

If only we could get a standard that all labs followed, man would I be in heaven. Sometimes in a hurry I will grab a used trailer just because I know that it is heads up with the emulsion out, everytime, no hassel.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-06-2000, 11:36 AM:

I'd be delighted to see some standardization with respect to trailer shipment. It would very helpful if all (or nearly all) new trailers were shipped in some consistant way; this would save quite a bit of time and grief while making up trailer reels.

My own preferences: heads out-emulsion out, large core (2" at least, 3" or 4" preferred, though it's not going to happen...), packaging-not a big deal, as long as the film is tightly wound and the core is solid, full countdown on head leader (very useful for reel-to-reel houses), at least 2-3 feet of tail leader with framelines, readable labels with title of film/format/release date/runtime/distributor and good handwritten identification printed on the film itself.

Posted by Jason R. Weinsteiger (Member # 456) on 07-06-2000, 11:59 AM:

What we do in our theater is start the trailers early so that the feature starts on time. For instance, if we have 8 minutes of trailers on out 7PM show, we'll start it at 6:52 so that the feature goes on exactly at 7PM. Does anyone else do this?

jasoN

------------------
"That's what life is - a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of muppets." -Dante Hicks

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-06-2000, 02:11 PM:

Minimum 3 feet of pure BLACK (not this "almost black" nonsense) before the green band AND after the final "coming soon" tag.

Should have framelines on the black.

Should be NO defects on the analog track during the black.

Fade ups mandatory for all green bands.

None of this nonsense on matted trailers where you can see the difference in black shading in advance of the trailer starting, identifying that the trailer to follow will be matted.

NO useless "tv" cue marks in the black!!!

Always, no matter what, heads up/emulsion out. Tails up forces a rewind and emulsion in does not run steadily for a day or two.

I can live with the current small cores *if* they are shipped in padded envelopes/boxes. Let's get rid of the "trailer baggie" please.

Big rant time on attached trailers to follow:

On attached trailers, there should be a minimum of 6 feet of pure black (no defects in soundtrack) between the trailer and start of the feature. Let's get rid of this practice where the sound for the feature starts in the end of the attached trailer. Whenever I see that, it means I must chop the fade out of the attached trailer to prevent the start of the feature's soundtrack from playing (we MUST insert our policy trailer there) so the trailers absolutely positively go IN THE TRASH when that happens! If I've got another copy of that trailer on the shelf, I'll play that one. If I don't, then forget it...I'll play something else. I'm not going to lower my presentation just because the studios think they are creating a forced method to prevent people from cutting off their attached trailers.

Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 07-06-2000, 05:20 PM:

ahhh! I didnt get a chance to answer the questions from earlier.

I too leave all of my greenbands on. I too like to show off my steady and clean picture. lets just face it. its just more professional. I use to work at a cinemark 20-plex and we were forced to cut off all green bands and i just always found it so cheesy. oh yeah they alo didnt cover the trailer back up with an leader of any sort, they just rewound it and put a piece of draft tape to hole the heads on the trailer and label it with. making the heads and tails extremely dirty.

I hate those stupid trailers that leave about 5 frames of black right at the credits. and i also hate the ones that have that noise at the tails so you hear this nice hum between trailers (in digital) but if you cut too much off then you lose a lot of film. that sux.

Has anyone ever had a mislabeled trailer from the studios before?

my preferences...

3 ft of pure black (this means no light shining through) on heads and tails with frame lines. I cant stand it when there arent any whatsoever. ie disney. no writing in the analog trax when there is still sound.

heads up, emulsion out.

oh yeah on the blackleader, make sure that there is no defects. I cant stand it when i can see white specks btween trailers or even disloration between to diffent black leaders on two different trailers.

leave enough room so you cna play the full trailer with sound and the intro to the movie with all of the sound with neither of the two clashing into each other. do they not know that some theaters play policy trailers if not that then digital trailers?

The small cores will do but, they sometimes are not durable enough through the handling. i have recieved some before where the cores have cracked.

i like boxes but the padded baggies work. (except when you try and open them barehanded to show off your strength)

------------------
--"That's my story and i'm sticking to it!"--

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 07-06-2000, 10:28 PM:

Tails out. Reason being is when I build the trailer reeel I do it last trailer to leader. That way its already heads up, no need for rewinding before putting it on the platter.

Emulsion out of course.

Always have a core. Small or large doesn't matter to me.

I like the new way Fox and Screenvision are sending out their trailers (boxes). The padded pouch is fine too though. The UPS bags are unacceptable though.

Since I run platters I really only need enough heads and tail to wrap around the trailers twice.

No preference on leader type. I do prefer the oooo and ^----^ over the Disney way though.

The trailer should identify aspect ratio. I like the ones that are green for flat and yellow for scope. You can tell at a glance what you got. Also, studio name, feature title (duh), green or red band, rating (if its been rated yet), targeted demographic (ie kiddie, adolescent, college, etc.), and category (ie comedy, drama, action, etc. This should all be printed on the label of the trailer.

Posted by Tom Ferreira (Member # 70) on 07-07-2000, 07:45 AM:

I much prefer a heads up trailer on the larger core, but it usually doesn't end up that way. I too have never understood why Fox feels the need to put a synopsis on their trailer bands-just the title would be fine.
One thing that's been bugging me for a long time-why does Warner Bros. feel the need to put so much black in between their attached trailers and the start of the feature? A few seconds is OK, but it seems like sometimes there's about fifteen seconds of black.
Another thing that really puzzles me is the current trend of studios to enclose every other studio's trailers loose in the can with no regards to genre or appropriateness. At one time, the only trailers enclosed with a print were from the same studio for their upcoming releases. Why would they want to advertise the competetion? It's like NBC buying commercial time on ABC. I smell a conspiracy....

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-08-2000, 12:09 PM:

Tom F.:

The reason for the "gray band" on the Space Cowboys trailer is, the beginning of the trailer is in Black-&-White. Any B&W trailers will always have the gray band. They're using it as an attention getting device.

Posted by Bob Peticolas (Member # 328) on 07-08-2000, 08:28 PM:

I always cut the green bands off. They are just redundant. I only run two trailers (or ab most three) before a feature. We provide a calendar flyer at the boxoffice (and by mail to our regular patrons) that describes each feature that is upcomming for the next two months. If anyone is worred about a feature, they can read all about it. (Also on our web site.)

The trailer is to give the patrons a sense of the look and feel of a feature so that they can decide for themselves if they want to see it. I don't feel that we need a "band" on the trailer to decide for them.

I'll also second the comments about frame lines on the black before and after the trailer. What's so hard about printing frame lines? For platter houses, countdowns are useless, yet they still get printed (although I've seen some that start at "3"), why not frame lines?

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 07-09-2000, 02:31 AM:

I prefer mine tails out as I prep all my trailers before they make it to the storage shelf. That way, when I'm busy building a trailer reel, it's already cut in frame and start out for the platter.

Is there any way of identifying where the buzz in the dolby digital track is? If not, that would be my wish Mr. Pytlak.

Those white lines on the side really are annoying. We had Fox tags on features with audio for the fanfare starting in the white lined area. Result? Bye Bye Fox Tag...

They must have woken up to that one though as I've not seen it recently...

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 07-09-2000, 11:43 PM:

Honest question here, why does everyone prefer heads out?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-10-2000, 12:15 AM:

Many trailer changes are done right on the platter, making heads out FAR more convenient. Also, it only takes a minute to rewind an entire reel of trailers if they all started heads out. Big deal. If an operator can't spare a minute to do that, he needs more help.

Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 07-10-2000, 12:34 AM:

I think the green bands should definately be left on.

a) I didn't put the green bands on there. My theatre company didn't put them on there... what gives us the right to take them off?

b) They offer great focus guides (and framing guides if for some odd reason you didn't check your framing while threading).

c) They seperate the trailors... not all people like their peas and potatoes mixed.

d) Some audio does start on the green band... also it gives you a silence period to further more reasure you this is a differennt trailor.

e) Easier to break down trailors.

f) it seems to look more professional. Without them its kinda like running a movie without credits.

g) you can tell how clean your film is and how bright teh bulb is.

i could go on but im sure all of you know this already. Unfortunatly i have to cut them off now : ( But its not the end of the world. I have plenty of other things to bitch about. : /

Posted by Tom Ferreira (Member # 70) on 07-10-2000, 08:34 AM:

The previous 'manager' at the theatre I currently operate loved to cut off the green bands. I believe it looked unprofessional and tacky. The only situation where it could possibly be justified would be an art house where most trailers probably aren't submitted to the MPAA anyway. It even annoys me that my lobby tape has no green MPAA approved to divide them. Most commercial tapes have the green on their trailers.
I should specify earlier remarks in this thread; what I would like is well defined frame markings at the heads and tails of all trailers. The four circles works for this purpose, but there are still some studios(I'm thinking of Sony, I believe), that have no markings at all. Still, this situation is improving. What really annoys me is Screenvision ads-why can't they take the extra time to put frame lines on these, especially with the quick turnover on some of them? Of course, the total elimination of them altogether would be OK, too.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-10-2000, 09:39 AM:

Well I wish they would get rid of the green bands all togather.
Outside of the US the MPPA has no standing and in most other country's there are film review or censor boards that have there own rating system.
As such in example Ontario it is an offense under the theatres act to show other rateings since Ontario has its own different rateing as do other provinces or countries.
The removal of the green bands does cause a very unprofessional drop in sound.
I really do feel that since non US film grosses are usually higher than the domestic grosses they should print trailors with that inmind. ie since they make more money overseas then at least print the things so they are profesional there as well
Just my 2 cents worth (that equals 1.2cents US)

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 09-13-2000, 10:43 PM:

So has anyone ever gotten in trouble for leaving the green bands ON when someone asks that they be cut off? I haven't seen anyone get in trouble for running outdated trailers (like the "Bedazzled" trailer that says "August" on it) or leaving too much black at the end til you see and hear stuff that's not supposed to be onscreen!

Posted by Zach McQuaid (Member # 613) on 09-14-2000, 12:09 AM:

Green Bands look bad. They sucked when they were required. If you KNOW what your doing and have ever actually used the cob-web covered frame counter in YOUR booth then you'd not have a problem finding where the frame(s) starts. I would suggest not splicing into the trailEr where you see the soundtrack for starters. As far as monitoring your cleanliness of film...w-w-w-w-what? You running that print across the floor or what? How dirty is your booth, that that is a problem? I don't like green trailErs anyhow.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 04-14-2008, 09:49 PM:

It has been 2769 days since the last post.

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 04-14-2008, 09:49 PM:

Since the take over from Pacific Theatres to Reading Cinemas, I figured I would do a search with regards to Green Bands on Trailers (whether to leave them on or not, etc.) Well, it's been a interesting read with various opinions. Reading Cinemas doesn't have any policy with regards to Green Bands, at least that is what I am told.

So, in my booth, I've made it policy to leave all Green Bands on during movie builds and trailer swaps. To me, it makes sense since, during my movie builds while employed with Pacific Theatres, I would notice a lot of trailers would have the soundtrack beginning in the Green Band section, but, had to cut that part off due to their policy.

Now, since Reading Cinemas is now in town, I instituted the new policy at the Gaslamp Stadium 15. [Big Grin]

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 04-14-2008, 10:42 PM:

So, I haven't posted in a really, really long time. I don't even lurk that often anymore, but I find it hilarious that on a day I log in to look up something I find that a thread I started nearly 8 years ago was resurrected by the Soup Nazi on the same day. [Big Grin]

Reading my posts from 2000 I am amazed at how angry I was back then. These days I could really care less if a trailer is head or tail out, it'll be correct by the time I get it on the platter. The things I worried about when I was 22......... crazy.

I would still like a nice pretty bow however. HA!

Posted by Thomas Pitt (Member # 4322) on 04-15-2008, 06:16 PM:

As the first UK person to post in this thread, I'll say what we have in the way of trailers. We don't have MPAA green 'bands' (I just can't bring myself to call them bands, they're green screens of information). Instead, we have a screen showing the BBFC certificate for the trailer coming up, and the word TRAILER below it.

These are usually shown on a black background, so framing errors aren't apparent until the actual trailer starts. But like the MPAA green bands, sound is sometimes recorded on the film while the screen is still showing the certificate - since the sound is read further along the film.

Many cinemas in the UK cut these BBFC certificate cards out and just have the trailers running back to back. I remember one for Surf's Up where a small amount of dialogue was muted at the beginning because the certificate was cut out.

Also, in all my years of going to cinemas, I have never once seen a scope trailer - they're always flat. The only scope advert I've ever seen was the Orange Gold Spot, which is used at certain cinemas.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-15-2008, 08:23 PM:

quote: Thomas Pitt
Also, in all my years of going to cinemas, I have never once seen a scope trailer - they're always flat. The only scope advert I've ever seen was the Orange Gold Spot, which is used at certain cinemas.

That's bizarre to me. Every scope movie we have that's supposed to have trailers has scope ones. In fact, I've had pretty decent success with getting the trailers we were expected/required to play coming with the movie itself (and rarely getting a trailer in the wrong format but it happens).

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-16-2008, 12:22 AM:

Different countries are different. And of course, because of ratings, there is very little movement of trailers between national markets.

--jhawk

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-16-2008, 12:37 AM:

I'm well aware that "different countries are different." I thought it was clear that I was simply saying what I've experienced here as a comparison to what he's experienced.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 04-16-2008, 01:26 AM:

When I first started working in The Movies, there were very few scope trailers. Most trailers were flat, and required a lens change for the scope feature. I find it interesting it's still this way in the UK.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-16-2008, 02:26 AM:

Glancing through our trailer inventory database (which doesn't consistently have years of titles), it looks like scope trailers became prevalent around 1989, though the oldest one I ran across is for Barbarella (1968).

One imagines that before platters, there was every reason to run all trailers in flat (for the trailer reel) and there was no reason to have scope trailers.

--jhawk

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-16-2008, 04:45 AM:

We remain change-over to this day (and on three screens too), and so we are able to retain that old protocol of always changing from the Attraction Reel to a wider screen for the Features, even when running only 1.85 or believe it or not, 1.66 flat Features -- when we do allot of.

When scope trailers first showed up, I remember saying, "How useless is this!" The whole sacrosanct concept of going from a smaller screen for attractions (1.37) to a wider screen was part and parcel of the whole deal, with a curtain and mask move in between. A scope trailer just screws up the whole works -- so much so that we've axed scope trailers when we couldn't get a flat replacement. For certain old-style protocols like ours, they are just really annoying.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-16-2008, 05:26 AM:

quote: John Hawkinson
One imagines that before platters, there was every reason to run all trailers in flat (for the trailer reel) and there was no reason to have scope trailers.

Unless the theatre has top masking for scope, which I have seen in several 1950s conversions. Obviously, no one would want to see the screen get smaller for the feature....

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-16-2008, 10:57 AM:

That didn't stop Cinemark in the late 80s. Believe me, LOTS of people would come out of the auditoriums angry because "the curtains fell and are covering up half of the image" along with similar complaints. Nobody knew technically why it was happening, they just knew they didn't like it.

Posted by Thomas Pitt (Member # 4322) on 04-16-2008, 03:19 PM:

And that doesn't stop UK cinemas from having top masking, even today! The Leeds Light cinema still uses fixed-width screens with top masking, meaning the image shrinks significantly when changing over to scope!

I've seen it many times, the ads and trailers in flat and then the screen shrinking for the movie. In fact, before going to see a movie there, I like to check on Film-Tech's Feature Info forum to see if it's a flat or scope film. If it's scope, I sit slightly lower than I would normally so that when the screen 'falls down', it's more centered to my vision [Smile]

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-16-2008, 03:22 PM:

I stopped playing flat trailers on scope movies that were in our smaller houses (which had top moveable masking) for that very reason. We had some studios call to complain, but we told them we were getting frequent complaints from our customers (which we were), and if they could send me a scope version, I'll be glad to put it on. When complaining to me didn't work, the studios would complain to our corporate office, and then we would get a rash of shit for it. But our GM was well aware of the problem and he was ok with what we were doing. He was tired of the customer complaints too.

After several months of calling every studio on Friday morning and saying "if you want your trailer on this movie, you'll send me a scope version" we started getting scope trailers on a more and more regular basis.

This was around 1990 or 1991.

[ 04-16-2008, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Mark J. Marshall ]

Posted by Patrick Dunn (Member # 3333) on 04-21-2008, 11:27 PM:

I hate sitting in a theater that has the masking that falls from the ceiling for scope. Just about every auditorium in the cinimark near me has one and some of the ones in the regal by my house have them. After the first look crap we have to sit through and the movie is about to start the top curtain starts falling, than the screen looks like it is too low for the theater.

And at my theater we don't cut off the green band, but my boss said only leave about 10 frames of black at most in between trailers since if you leave all of the black in people trying to find a seat will have as much light as possible, even though the lights are left up high enough during trailers. I usually count in a few frames from the tail so no sound from the previous trailer is carrying into the green band of the next, and cut in a few frames away from the green band on the next trailer.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-21-2008, 11:53 PM:

quote: Patrick Dunn
my boss said only leave about 10 frames of black at most in between trailers since if you leave all of the black in people trying to find a seat will have as much light as possible, even though the lights are left up high enough during trailers.

10 frames is less than half a second. Boss notwithstanding, that's not good showmanship. You need a break between the trailers. You're not running a TV station. I like to leave in as much black as possible, so there's a good 2 - 4 seconds from the fadeout of one trailer to the green band of the next.

Posted by Robert LaValley (Member # 4319) on 04-22-2008, 12:17 AM:

I totally agree on doing at least a two second fade between trailers. The theatre I am at now has an odd policy to have me just leave the first trailers green band on and cut the second and third trailer green bands off. We never run more then three trailers per show, still though I found this an odd practice but too each his own.

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 04-22-2008, 02:16 AM:

The company I work for now has a policy of no Green bands or Blue Bands ever to see the screen. I like it and think that the trailers flow better and has a better presention. It also looks more "neat"

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-22-2008, 02:31 AM:

What I do also - leave the green on the 1st trailer, then whack off the green on the others and leave the black at the end.. agree - makes the pak flow smoother and it seems to hasten the trailer time as well.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-22-2008, 11:52 AM:

As hectic and fast as trailers are cut together lately, inparticular the way some trailers these days end and then show more clips, followed by the next one starting and going for awhile before the studio logo pops up, I feel the green bands are a good dividing marker and help the pacing of the trailers. I don't like them all slammed up together like television commercials (no green bands).

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-22-2008, 11:57 AM:

quote: Kurt Zupin
The company I work for now has a policy of no Green bands or Blue Bands ever to see the screen. I like it and think that the trailers flow better and has a better presention. It also looks more "neat"

It's one thing to say it "flows better" but come on; better presentation!? That's a pretty dubious statement at best.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-22-2008, 02:45 PM:

quote: Kurt Zupin
It also looks more "neat"

It might look "neat" but it sure won't sound neat if you're cutting off the first second or two of sound when you cut those green bands off.

Posted by Thomas Pitt (Member # 4322) on 04-22-2008, 03:22 PM:

If you have no black at all between the trailers, you'll often see a noticeable splice mark on the screen - plus the sound cut-off problem that Mike Blakesley mentioned. I've seen it happen in a few cinemas; they actually cut off the tail of the trailer before it's started to fade out and go straight onto the next one (minus BBFC card)!

TV networks in the UK used to have a few frames of black between each commercial during the breaks. This has now been eliminated - whether due to technological advances or management decisions I don't know, but it often makes it hard to distinguish where one commercial ends and the next one starts! I can imagine how that would look to a cinema audience... like a 6-minute trailer!

Posted by Patrick Dunn (Member # 3333) on 04-22-2008, 09:03 PM:

quote: Kurt Zupin
The company I work for now has a policy of no Green bands or Blue Bands ever to see the screen. I like it and think that the trailers flow better and has a better presention. It also looks more "neat

This may seem "neat" for some trailers, but one of the last times I went to cinimark one of the trailers came on, and I think it was a teaser, so it seemed like the wrong movie had started in reel 3. So I don't think any theater should cut off the green band since some trailers are a scene from the movie they are advertising.

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 04-22-2008, 09:57 PM:

No Chris I think its my opinion on it, nothing you have to agree with just what I think.

I'm not going to argue the right or wrong of the policy. I have built hundreds of trailer packs this way and have yet to have a problem. If there is sound in the greenband then it's the very first trailer so I can use the greenband as leader/not lose the sound. I think it flows better with out the greenband between each trailer, and anyone who thinks it doesn't is more then welcome to come down and watch anyone of the movies I have and tell me where it doesn't flow well.

I guess I give more credit to my customer base than being mindless peons who can't tell the difference between one trailer and the next. I really can't see how someone's going to think the teaser for Wanted is the movie that they are there to watch and get confused...maybe that's just me.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-23-2008, 01:33 AM:

If one cuts the green right at where the green and black meet, the soundtrack usually doesn't begin until a few frames down the run. Thus, there shouldn't be and sound problems...as long as the trailer before was cut at the very end before the "kodak girl" imagery that exists on some of the tail leads of the trailer.

Then we know that the soundtrack is completely done at the end of the trailer.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-23-2008, 02:41 AM:

Most times we are running 3 or 4 trailers and almost always they are G rated so it becomes really questionable why that has to be stated before EACH and every one. IMHO, it is just repetitious and kind of inconsiderate of the audience. I mean, if you were running six trailers, you mean the audience would have to watch that thing six times? They are always much to long anyway, like the MPAA thinks everyone is sitting there actually reading each and every word of each and every green band. So in our place, CHOP goes the green band and we leave (or put in where necessary) 4 seconds of black -- that's more than enuf to break up the trailers so the audience makes no mistaking one trailer from the next. Besides, they almost always end with that worthless jumble of squeezed lettering in which half a dozen credits are crammed which no one can read or even wants to. Anyone who watches movies knows when they see that, it's the end of the trailer. And yes, we always keep the green band on the FIRST trailer so eveyone knows that they are watching G rated material.

I once proposed that we design our own green band snipe -- make it look exactly like the MPAA frame, but in bigger lettering say: THE FOLLOWING TRAILERS (plural) ARE RATED G FOR GENERAL AUDIENCES. Our Finance guy said, "What, are you out of your freakin mind?" Custom snipes are expensive, true that, and he said it was way to extravagant a solution for something that wasn't a problem.

As for the overlaping sound problem, in the few cases where it does exist, I do what Robert does -- put that trailer first, leaving the green band intact. If I happen to be unlucky and get more than one trailer with the sound advancing before the frame is out, naturally, I have no choice but to leave the green band, but I make sure to cut it so that it is much shorter, but not so short as to make it feel like a mistake -- just like a three-count is plenty for them to get the idea.

As for the blue bands, the ones that they stick on the FRONT of the feature are just unequivically worthless, idotic and a pile of elephant dung. It totally ruins the opening protocol -- you have the grand curtain opening on what, not the start of the film, but on some crappy ad for the MPAA? Not in my theatre. The blue band is just an excuse for the MPAA to get some free screen time. If they want to advertise their website, they can pay me for screen time just like any other merchant.

The ones they stick on the END of the feature are even sillier --they've already WATCHED the movie. Who cares after the fact?

As I have said before on this hallowed forum, when the audience has already purchased their tickets and have plunked their fat asses down in the seats, that is NOT the time to tell them what's the MPAA rating of the picture they are about to see. If they gave a flying sheet about the rating to begin with, they would have already found out what it is -- by the rating that is posted in the newspaper ad, or by the rating that is given on the phone hot-line or by the rating that is posted at the box office, or by the rating that is on every 1-sheet for the film hanging in the lobby, or by the rating that is displayed on the freakin MARQUEE! What does the MPAA expect, that they walked willy-nilly into the theatre, bought their ticket, never noticing what the rating was, and then what? when they are in their seats, they see the blue band, jump up and say, "Holy geez, I didn't know this is a PG-13 movie....I gotta leave and get my money back." It's ludicrous. And I don't want my curtains opening or even closing on an MPAA ad.

The green band, I'll admit is pretty much a matter of aesthetics, some like them, some don't myself included; but the blue band is something else althogther -- the blue band before the feature or after it is for idiots with the aesthetic acumen of a toilet seat and the IQ of a rhododendron.

[ 04-23-2008, 04:41 AM: Message edited by: Frank Angel ]

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 04-23-2008, 03:30 AM:

quote: Frank Angel
idiots with the aesthetic acumen of a toilet seat and the IQ of a rhododendron.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 04-23-2008, 03:58 AM:

quote:
I once proposed that we design our own green band snipe -- make it look exactly like the MPAA frame, but in bigger lettering say: THE FOLLOWING TRAILERS ARE RATED G FOR GENERAL AUDIENCES.

Some of the UK chains have made equivalent snipes, and Jack Roe make a generic version.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-27-2008, 03:30 AM:

I feel the green bands should be left on. Perhaps they are a bit annoying for projectionists and others who watch a lot of movies. However, that 2-3 seconds is insignificant. And the purpose of the green bands is to provide information for those who are interested in the information. I think it's especially important if the green band actually displays the film's rating rather than just the generic "This film has been approved for all audiences".

Since the studios are starting to ship red band trailers again, I think it becomes increasingly important to maintain the green band. And if the MPAA ever decides to do a yellow band (basically PG-13), then the green band becomes even more significant.

As a theatre manager who has dealt with parental complaints over a variety of issues related to the ratings, I think the few extra seconds added by the green bands is insignificant - especially if it mitigates even one complaint. And from a presentation standpoint, I think it provides a nice transition from one trailer to the next.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-27-2008, 04:27 AM:

But they are not just run 2-3 seconds -- they can be much longer. But I do agree, I only object when the ratings are all the same for 3 or 4 trailers in a row. I would only eliminate those that are repetitive -- if a trailer shows a rating different than the trailers that preceded it, then, yes, that does impart information about the film and I would run it. As far as a smooth transition, I still say the credit frame followed by black is a pleasing separation between trailers. But again, use them or not, it's not a big deal or about a right or wrong way, just individual taste and in the case of chains, I suppose corporate policy and so the projectionist doesn't get much choice how it is done.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-27-2008, 05:04 AM:

I have downloaded many trailers from the internet since I don't get to see many on real film anymore, and all of the digital trailers have green bands. There are no sites that specialize in hosting the same trailers with the greenbands edited out. Many amateur videomakers put fake greenbands on their little previews. What is the reasoning for all of this? It's simple. Greenbands rock your world. Leave 'em on... they're part of culture now.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 04-27-2008, 07:16 AM:

Joe,

You missed the point. It's all about CONTROL! There is very little that the booth personnel can do to influence the actual content of the show, EXCEPT things like editing trailers.

So, if you need to become an editor, then at least do it with enough smarts to look where the soundtrack modulation begins and include that portion of the green band in your presentation.

We have a drawer full of little clips that were inserted into the trailers in the time long ago. These little inserts were "Coming Soon", "Starts Friday", "Double Feature" and "Midnight Show". The drawer is labeled "DATERS". The really irritating ones had sound on them so there was a burst of music and then the next trailer. Of course the sound track offset made this even more annoying.

KEN

[uhoh]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-27-2008, 12:27 PM:

I have missed no point. I demand everyone leave them on! [evil]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-28-2008, 02:36 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
Greenbands rock your world. Leave 'em on... they're part of culture now.

My nature in the very core of by being is counter-culture. And the truth is, Joe, that deep down yours is too and you know it. Give in to your true inner self!

Besides, when have you ever been an MPAA lover? You may not want to admit it, but you and I both KNOW that giving them free screen time because they command that you do it will just eat way at your Powers. Let them get their way and it will suck away your strength. Your Superhero powers will be inexorably eroded way....THEN what will we do? Don't let it happen, Joe....DON'T! We need you!!

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-28-2008, 03:43 PM:

quote: Kurt Zupin
I guess I give more credit to my customer base than being mindless peons who can't tell the difference between one trailer and the next.

Someone saying "I think the green bands separate the trailers out easier for everyone" in no way means "I think my customers are idiots who can't tell the difference."

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but you say you don't want to argue then make a statement that completely mischaracterises "the other side of the argument."

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-28-2008, 03:46 PM:

Since when aren't most customers idiots???

"The THX isn't on."
"Rewind the movie for me. I ran projectors in high school and I KNOW you can."
"What time does the midnight movie start?"

[Razz]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-28-2008, 05:38 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
My nature in the very core of by being is counter-culture. And the truth is, Joe, that deep down yours is too and you know it.

Very true, however I think of it as a culture I helped create instead of one I am obeying.

quote: Frank Angel
Besides, when have you ever been an MPAA lover? You may not want to admit it, but you and I both KNOW that giving them free screen time because they command that you do it will just eat way at your Powers.

Never! Good greenbands show off my hero powers more than they hurt it. How? By having an evenly lit screen without any noticeable hot spots. Without flicker. Without jitteryness from the projector. Without edges from an underfiled aperture showing. Proper masking. Proper framing. In focus. Bright and sharp. Granted, some of these things still need to be worked out at the theater where I am currently helping out. But until they are my name won't be advertised on the marquee like usual.

[Razz]

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 04-28-2008, 07:02 PM:

Let's go back to this style. It was cooler. (I made this, btw. It's not a frame grab.)

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-28-2008, 07:11 PM:

I do like that style.

I just wish the green bands would adhere to two things.

#1 CENTER the damn text!!! Many people use it as a framing reference. Likewise ALL "flat" green bands should be hard matted, even if the trailer content is not.

#2 Add the "texture" to the green background like we discussed years ago to help aid on focusing.