Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Technicolor Screw-up of the Week

This is topic Technicolor Screw-up of the Week - The Sequel in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-15-2000, 01:29 PM:

Excuse me for not dredging up the Old topic on this, but the Search link is busted along with the "all active topics" link.

Anyway....the movie: THE PATRIOT.

The film did not show up as of our "window" on Thursday, so I called in. The customer service person said that print is a "self circuit" from a theatre in Livingston....220 miles from me. I am supposed to make pickup or delivery arrangements myself.

I called my booker...he called Sony...within 10 minutes Technicolor called me back "to schedule delivery of 'The Patriot' for 10:00 AM on Friday." OK, fine.

Noon Friday....no film. I called in again. The Tech "rep" said "We have a little problem and have to reschedule your delivery for 6:00 PM." Which is one hour before my show time. She assures me it's the best they can do. (Funny....it takes over 18 hours to move a film 220 miles? Maybe in California, but not in Montana!)

6:00..... no film. At 6:05, I call Technicolor again. The rep says "I'll transfer this to the logistics department and they will call you back immediately."

6:15....no call-back. People start walking in to the lobby.

6:25 ...no film, no call. I call again and basically start ranting; do I sell tickets or not?? They inform me that they are waiting for the driver to answer his "page." What, these people never heard of cell phones???????

6:35 ... no film, no call. I call in again and basically tell them I'm not hanging up until I have some kind of answer. At that moment, the driver pulls up in front of the theatre.

So we were only about 20 minutes late getting on screen, and thank God there were no problems with the film, other than every single reel falling apart, having broken flanges, etc. We gave out free refills on popcorn and soda and everyone was happy.

Still no clue as to whose fault the whole thing was....the driver claimed he got a call at 5:00 saying he had to deliver the film from Billings (100 miles from us). So he had to haul ass to get here when he did.

IS ANYBODY FROM THE STUDIOS READING THIS FORUM?? TECHNICOLOR IS SCREWING UP YOUR BUSINESS!

[Rant mode off, until next week anyway]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-15-2000, 02:40 PM:

Technicolor Entertainment Services is a monopoly. They don't see any reason to change since we are all FORCED to use them. Why should they care? This is the attitude that they have given us. Mr. Tim Mauer of Technicolor has given me this attitude directly. Unless the studios themselves do anything, they will just keep screwing up stuff like that and continue to cut revenue from films on opening weekends when the profit margin is at its highest.

I guess the studios don't care too much, either. After all, it's only money.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 07-15-2000, 03:04 PM:

The Government is supposed to actively seek out and destroy Monopolies like Microsoft.

Go get Technicolor! Sick-um fido!

Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 07-15-2000, 08:17 PM:

i have to order my own trailers. that sux. so every time i had to order trailers or other stuff through technicolor, they havve always told me that they did not have any or they were on backorder or my personal favorite, the studio does not wish for you to recieve a certain amount of something so you cat get it. so i called all of the studios and talked with their exhibitor relations people, explained the situation to them, and pretty much all of them were upset. One i can remember said and i quote. "gaw those stupid people at technicolor, that pisses me off! no we have plenty of those trailers they are just too lazy to process the order. im sorry technicolor does have a bad reputation with lying! what theater are you again? im going to call them right now and fix this problem!" i got every trailer i orderd the next day.

another thing that is kind of annoying, we lsot three movies last wekk so of coourse we are staying late to have them broken down for friday pick up, no one shows. two days later, i get a call saying that they want to pick them up i say "yeah they were ready as of friday morning" they say ok well be out there in 2 days. a week goes by they call again wondering if it was ok if they came and picked up the same prints that they still have not picked up a week before. i said yes. 2 days later (today) they call again wondering if it yet again is it ok to pick up the same three prints that they were asking about a week and a half ago. this time frustrated i said yes you can pick those up i told you this last week 2 times already!"

i agree i think that they are a monopoly but even worse one that does not care whatsoever about prints. when will they ever learn?

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 07-15-2000, 08:39 PM:

Thats IT!!!! When my film opens up sometime next year... Im a doin my OWN distribution. Screw technicolor...

Im sure I can handle three thousand prints out of my basement.. maybe brad can help...

dave

------------------
"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-16-2000, 04:24 AM:

Three thousand? Are you making the next big blockbuster or something?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-16-2000, 10:35 AM:

A gruesome Technicolor screwup from the UK... A print of THE LAND GIRLD we showed for a week in a screen with Dolby Digital sounded fine. Then, because of a special one-day show, we moved it into another screen which only has SR. Reel 5 was badly out of sync. When I looked at the leader, the sound start mark (the one that should have been on the track alongside the pic start frame) was 19 frames AHEAD of the pic start frame! Therefore the analogue track was almost two seconds out.

The moral of the story? Check all the sound formats on a print you are likely to need.

------------------

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-17-2000, 12:08 AM:

Yes, I know you folks disagree with me but I still say that your first run-through screening should be in analog/optical sound.

If one of your digital tracks crap-out, you can switch to another one. Fail that, you can fall-back to analog. Your digital processors will do that automaticaly, anyhow.

The digital tracks can be as messed up as they want but if your analog track is messed up you're screwed!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-17-2000, 12:41 AM:

We have Christie basement Dolby Digital readers. So therefore we generally have no choice but to listen to the optical track since the readers do not track well. Unfortunately we can't always switch to "another" digital player since many projectors only are capable of one format or another.

I like to listen in digital mainly to set volume levels. I want to see the movie as the customer sees it. If the optical track is screwed up, we will move the print so it can play elsewhere in digital. I've never known of a bad optical track at my theatre, but I'm sure it has happened.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 07-17-2000, 02:04 AM:

Yes Joe I hope so!!! The project has attracted the attention of an overseas investor who has major big bucks! If he puts up I say SCREW TECHNICOLOR YEAH BABY YEAH!!!!!

------------------
"If it's not worth doing, I have allready been there and done it"

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-17-2000, 12:32 PM:

Has anybody ever written a complaint letter about Technicolor to anyone? Film companies? Movie directors? "Parent" companies of film companies?

If so, has anyone gotten any kind of response?

What about NATO? Last year they collected comments on Technicolor...anything ever come of that?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-17-2000, 03:13 PM:

Last year I sent a packet (and I do mean a PACKET) of printouts from the forum here as well as other notes concerning the pathetic service and care provided by TES to NATO. Nothing happened and there was no response.

Why even bother keeping such organizations going if they cannot take care of problems? TES is indeed a MAJOR problem.

Posted by Christopher Barahona (Member # 516) on 07-18-2000, 11:22 AM:

Remember when reels didn't fall apart while putting the film on the make-up table? You could almost use some of the reels they sent back when I was running change-overs with carbon arcs.
There seemed to me to be a lot less lab splices that needed repair. You have to wonder how much those lab technicians are making over at technicolor and how many expert technicians have retired or been forced retirement in the last 10-15 yrs.
They have gone way past the point of pissing me off.
A few cans they should have thrown away yrs ago, heads-tail-heads-heads-tail, 14 lab splices to a picture,rotten delivery info,lousy customer service,plastic reels that remind me of Rubiks Cubes after they fall apart...etc.
Dismal.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-18-2000, 11:27 AM:

I found a lab splice in a trailer last night. But there were none in our print of Perfect Storm except one in the end-credits. Nice!

Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 07-18-2000, 12:17 PM:

Does anyone else have those same white specs on Perfect Storm near the end? I heard that other prints had the same white specs at the same exact scene.

------------------
--"That's my story and i'm sticking to it!"--

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-18-2000, 12:24 PM:

Kodak usually supplies film to the big labs as 6000-foot rolls. Smaller labs use 4000-foot, 3000-foot or even 2000-foot lengths. The ultrasonic "lab splices" are made on the unexposed raw stock, under darkroom "safelight" conditions. On average, about one reel in three may have a lab splice.

"Lab Splices" are an economic necessity, as few reels are exact multiples of the 6000-foot raw stock length. Without lab splices, the labs would have to discard unprinted "short ends". Raw stock color print film costs about $0.09 (9 cents) a foot. Labs offer splice-free "show prints" at a premium price.

Trailers are often printed from a "looped" negative. Lab splices are used to reduce "short end" waste.

Since lab splices are made in the dark on unprocessed film, before an image is even printed, they may contain unprocessed emulsion in the ultrasonic weld, and may not always be on the frameline. Unreliable or unsightly lab splices should be remade at the theatre.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 07-18-2000, 01:25 PM:

Anyone ever get a lab tape splice? I have seen a few, but none recently. They were realy nice 8-perf splices, wish they would do that more often. Probably too expensive though. Lab ultrasonic splices wouldn't be so bad if they would just stay on the frameline and not plague the print with discoloration (sometimes for several feet).

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 07-18-2000, 01:33 PM:

John:
Then how come I've seen two lab splice in a reel before?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-18-2000, 02:12 PM:

The occasional discoloration around lab splices is due to fog from the darkroom lighting used to illuminate the splicing area. Sometimes an operator has to remake a splice, or takes a few seconds longer than normal to make a splice, exposing the unprocessed film to extra light. Typically 589 nm low pressure sodium vapor, amber LEDs or Series 8 safelights are used to illuminate the work areas, so any fog is usually blue or cyan. A red light would cause cyan fog. "White" room light or daylight produces yellow or brownish fog on print film.

Reels returned for serious fogging are usually replaced without question, and the lab tries to fix the root cause. Information about darkroom lighting is at:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/illumination.shtml

Raw stock tape splices are sometimes still used. But the tape covers up the undeveloped emulsion during processing, so you will lose at least two frames when you remove the splice.

Reels with more than one splice may have encountered a problem during printing or processing. They should be rare.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-18-2000, 08:57 PM:

John,

What would it take to get the labs to use the "end of rolls" for trailer stock? I could put up with splices within trailers, but I cannot stand having anything marring the feature.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-18-2000, 10:49 PM:

Just finished building up our print of In Crowd and it had two lab splices in the whole print. Both of them were repaired by somebody in the lab. The were darned near perfect, too!

Okay, so the print came from Warner Brothers, via Kally Express. (E.T.S.)
In my experience, WB usually always puts out a quality product. (Film wise, that is. )

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 07-18-2000, 10:59 PM:

I love WB!! Their reels are great, never warping or falling apart. Their reels are always heads up. And most important, we've never had QC problems with their film.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-19-2000, 02:21 AM:

John,

If those disgusting, unprofessional pieces of crap that we call "lab splices" are an economic necessity, then why did they used to be so rare? Did labs used to just say "screw the leftover amount!" and toss it away? Maybe Kodak is part of the cause by only offering rolls of 6,000 feet? It's always good economy to buy in bulk anyway. Lab splices really reduce presentation quality by a very high degree, especially when the film gets discolored and the Dolby Digital track gets messed up for the rest of the reel. It happens way too often. And there really is no excuse for it! There has got to be a better way of doing things, but Kodak and the labs just can't seem to figure it out. The standards of the labs do not meet the standards of exhibition. I'm sure you've read my Deluxe Hollywood review.

What's next? Lab splices in my Kodak EktaCrap 24 exposure 35mm still camera film?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-19-2000, 06:49 AM:

A 6000-foot roll of raw stock is about as big as a person can handle in a darkroom environment. So increasing the roll size is not an option today.

Replacing even the worst ultrasonic lab splice means losing only two frames of film.
Extensive discoloration (fogging) and disruption of the digital tracks are not the norm, and a replacement reel should be requested.

When prints were made one reel at a time, "short ends" were spliced together "off line" and used for trailers or short reels. At 9 cents a foot for raw stock, throwing away short ends would dramatically increase print prices.

Posted by Joseph Pandolfi (Member # 223) on 07-19-2000, 07:32 PM:

DUSTIN: Received Pokemon 2000 on Tuesday (yes, you heard right) night from a local distributor. The reels are better and the quality is better. Only found one lab splice in R5 --(I thought were we shortchanged on film in R6, only a quarter of the reel was full) By the way whatever happened to those huge 6000' blue plastic reels WB would send out?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-20-2000, 01:17 AM:

How about THIS one...

Just built a print of Children of Heaven received from Technicolor. (Print #10)

It had the old "Integrity Inspected" stickers on it and everything. When I screened it, I found about 2 EXTRA minutes of film! The last scene from the end of reel #1 REPEATED at the beginning of reel #2!

Talk about Deja' Vous!

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 07-20-2000, 03:36 AM:

I'm gonna come to Technicolor's defense here - they've got one thing going for them - their screen slide advertising program. On a scale of 1-10, I give them an 8 (as opposed to a 5 for NCN)

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-20-2000, 04:13 AM:

I had the same thing happen on Saving Private Ryan when the movie first opened to sold-out crowds. The last scene on reel #1 repeated after a brief dropout in sound. This was discovered by me on the Friday night it opened. The reel was actually printed this way. Nobody had prescreened the print, as it was against company policy. We were able to get a replacement reel in that very night and it was fine for the next day.

After that incident, prescreening movies was not only OK with my company, but recommended.

We use Val Morgan for our slide program. They really suck ass.

Posted by Michael McGillion (Member # 493) on 07-20-2000, 07:02 AM:

Val Morgan is in the US too? I thought they were only in Australia...

Incidentally, did you know that "Val Morgan is making olympic history by being the first cinema advertising company to be a sponsor of the olympic games"?

I knew you'd be thrilled. But out of curiosity, why does Val Morgan suck in the States? We don't seem to have too many problems with them (I work for Hoyts) at my location, apart from the very occasional wrong slide sent.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 07-20-2000, 08:29 AM:

my mistake - I said "screen slide" I meant "rolling stock"

Posted by Paul Cunningham (Member # 501) on 07-20-2000, 08:57 AM:

The Val Morgan Olympic advertising is starting to wear thin with me, if it was so good to be sponsoring the Olympics then why has it taken 100 years for a cinema advertising company to do it, why hasn't anyone done it before?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-20-2000, 10:30 AM:

I had that "repeating scene" problem with "The World Is Not Enough." I forget the reel number, but about 90 seconds was repeated. The extra footage was spliced in, not printed in.

Is this a Technicolor problem or what? Or are projectionists splicing the film in the wrong place, and then mixing the reels up?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-20-2000, 01:50 PM:

Joe Pandolfi wrote: "By the way whatever happened to those huge 6000' blue plastic reels WB would send out?"

The Extended Length Reels (ELR) were supported mainly by Warner Bros. and New Line. ETS depots have the equipment for handling and storing the larger reels and cases. The May 1997 issue of Boxoffice had an article about the ELR project:
http://boxoff.com/may97story2.html

Unfortunately, momentum for the conversion to ELR has been lost, due to the retirement of Barry Reardon of WB, and the untimely death of Al Shapiro of New Line. Barry and Al had the vision to see the advantages of ELR, despite some initial design problems, and led the industry support. Hopefully, other distribution leaders will get this project moving again.

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 07-20-2000, 02:10 PM:

I didn't really like the 6000' reel that Warner was sending out. Why? You still had lab splices, and lab splices means possible discoloration among other problems. I also thought it was silly that they were still printing the reel change marks as if they were on 2000' reels.

My question is, if Kodak sells film in 6000' reels and Warner was having prints shipped on 6000' reels why were there any splices at all? In the cases were there was extra film, just use it for trailers.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-20-2000, 02:20 PM:

Dave - if I remember correctly, prints that were distributed on ELRs were actually printed in the same way as normal prints, but were spliced together either at the lab or the depot and the extra leaders were discarded, hence the splices and cue marks at the normal reel breaks.

I've never actually had to deal with ELRs, since they were apparently used only for a few mainstream releases and I've spent most of my time in theatres at art houses. Maybe I'm lucky, if the reports of the ELR implementation diasasters are correct.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-20-2000, 02:47 PM:

Very few printers are currently capable of handling 6000-foot picture and sound negatives. Capability would develop if ELR was widely adopted.

ELR design issues and logistical problems were being addressed.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-21-2000, 04:15 AM:

None of the ELRs I ever got had any splices at the reel changes. They just had a guaranteed lab splice somewhere within. Still, I'd much rather get prints in on those and have 2 lab splices per print than get 6 separate reels where commonly there are 3-4 splices total.

Posted by Chris Erwin (Member # 176) on 07-21-2000, 11:22 AM:

Brad,

To you know of anyone from TES coming to the web site? I mean,if they did,I looks like they'd have something to say about it.

(an I'm sorry would be a start!)

--Chris

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-21-2000, 12:40 PM:

According to stats I've payed attention to in the past, yes there are people from TES "lurking" here. I guess rather than registering so they can answer questions and help out, they just want to see how many people are complaining about their service.

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 07-21-2000, 04:06 PM:

What service?

You call for trailers, "Sorry it's not in stock." They call wanting to pick up a print on Thursday night, but it HAS to be a specific print number. I know you can just switch the cans, but I still don't like that. I have even had times when they would come pickup a print on Friday morning and demand a different print. That's retarded, just make sure it's the right MOVIE and don't worry about the print number.

TES really needs a good quick kick in the...

Posted by Curtis Barnes (Member # 471) on 07-21-2000, 04:45 PM:

We don't need no stinkin service!

Anyone know how to build a bomb?