Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Sony causing trouble

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Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 08-09-2000, 11:50 AM:

First of all I am sorry I have to post this in the forum, but it's the only way I know of contacting this person.

I got a call last night from my Managing Director. Seems that someone from Sony read a comment that I made about SDDS and called corporate office on me, saying that I was damaging the <theatre chain>-Sony relationship. What a bunch of crap.

What I say, is MY OPINION, and I am intitled to it. Sorry Sony, but you will have to learn to live with it.

I was kinda flattered that this person thought that my opinion carried such weight in my theatre chain. The reality is, to them I am just a peon. I do NOT make company wide decisions. I don't work for Corporate office, I am not on salary, heck I am not even a manager. Although I am a member of the management team so I call myself the booth manager so as to not confuse people (that's what my business cards say atleast).

Atleast I am out here posting WITH MY REAL NAME, not just lurking around trying to get people into trouble because I make a crappy product and have nothing better to do. I challenge whomever called my corporate office to post a reply and defend themselves and their petty actions.

In fairness to Sony, not all of there employees are like this. Bill Mead has written me personally to rebut comments I have made about SDDS. He even convinced me on a few points, even if I still prefer DTS or SRD.

There is also the little matter of the disclaimer that one must view and agree to before even entering the forum now. I like that Brad, it was a good idea.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-09-2000, 02:40 PM:

Well, that's just another reason NOT to purchase Sony products. Any company that goes to that much trouble should be spending their time making a product better so no one will complain in the first place.

Still I urge the people at Sony to spend a little bit of their time checking the law and not to harass people or throw scare tactics at them in an attempt to keep them quiet so no one finds out about the problems associated with their machines. Perhaps it is time for Joe to review the 3000 series SDDS machine? I've heard nothing but bad things about it and wonder how it would stand up to Joe's real life testing.

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 08-09-2000, 02:59 PM:

I too can speak from personal experience that its seems that the entire Sony compnay and sub companies are afraid of people's personal opinions. From the hush men seen here, even to the extent of losing employment because of opinions stated in a public forum. Sony and their net-nazi's need to get off thier high horses and realize that people are entitled to opinions based on thier experiences.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-09-2000, 06:52 PM:

Well, I've said it somewhere else before, but if a company goes behind your back and tries to get you in trouble over something you said on the forum that they didn't like, then that very company is admitting that they are extreme cowards. They should at least come out and challenge the views publicly. I guess that will never happen with ompanies that only employ cowards, though.

I challenge Sony to get me in trouble!

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-09-2000, 08:03 PM:

When I worked for a major retail chain doing home repair services on TV's etc. I drove a van with an 800 number on the back for comments on my driving.

Over the 4 years that I was there, I supposedly:

Drove 60 mph down a twisting mountain road (with 20 mph curves)

Tailgated a "customer" for 15 miles blowing the horn and flashing the lights...

Ran down a cat while laughing madly...

Gave someone the finger.

Sure. Give someone the finger when you are driving a truck with their name and number plastered all over it.

All this did was get me in trouble and there was nothing I could do because the people that called were anonymous. When I left the company, I demanded a copy of my employee records. These driving infractions were there!!! I'm here to tell you that I did not do any of them. I DID get a speeding ticket (in a speed trap) ONCE and I told my supervisor the next morning when I arrived for work.

Dave: I know that you feel kinda helpless since you have no idea who pulled this crap on you, but rest assured, SONY is just being the assholes that they have become in business. I will never own another Sony product. They are all fancy looking on the outside, and flimsey on the inside.

I recently had to buy a remote for a VCR that cost over $100. One week after it arrived, I found the same remote at a discount house for $14.

Come after me, Sony. I'm not in a theater, and I am NOT afraid of you either.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-09-2000, 11:36 PM:

Seriously, most Sony products are crap! Sure, they're innovative, but they don't last. Take the PlayStation for example. Those things burn out left and right! Plus, the graphics are all jaggy, bendy and the system can't even draw a straight line. I've also had a few MiniDisc units go out on me, as well as camcorders and other equipment. The stuff goes out usually right after the warranty expires. Not so with the crap I own that's made by JVC, Canon (really cool folks), Kenwood, and others.

Don't buy Sony.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-10-2000, 12:53 AM:

How about an official film-tech boycott of Sony

Posted by Russ Kress (Member # 461) on 08-10-2000, 01:01 AM:

I "convinced" my child to go with the Nintendo-64 after hearing Play Station horror stories!

One of his cousins is still using a Play Station that will only operate correctly when situated up-side down on the table.

Come and get me Sony!! I have seen it first hand! I have pictures!!

Granted, I don't operate any SDDS systems, but the Play Station experience isn't exactly making me scream for one.

Besides, Lonny and Ken could make a way cooler video game if they wanted to!!!

If a manufacturer is gonna sell stuff to the public, then they have to deal with the reviews that they receive.

Were I to buy one, it would become mine. I could say whatever I wanted to about the way it did, or did not work.

There is a lawyer loose somewhere in this thread!! Let's catch him!!!! (LOL)

Russ

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 08-10-2000, 09:53 AM:

I have heard many stories from my friends about their Sony audio/video components having problems and needing repairs, but I must say that my Sony Trinitron XBR 32" TV, bought in 1993 has been fantastic. I'd definitely consider buying another one of their high-end TVs, but doubt that I'd buy their other A/V components.

Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 08-10-2000, 11:01 AM:

I think SONY tv's must be made by a different division that actually cares as they seem to work pretty well.

I have a HI-8 Sony Camcorder that I had to have repaired twice to the tune of $300. Both times, the problem was bad soldering. I also had a SONY car radio that had bad soldering problems and had to be repaired. Both units suffered intermittent problems due to poor soldering on surface mount components. I was told by the service shop ( a very reputable place) that soldering problems are TYPICAL and very common on SONY products.

On the other hand my wife has a SONY component stereo system that has never needed repair.

But back to the topic, it is definitely bad that someone would try to get you in trouble for expressing your opinion. As a representative of SMART Devices, I have made it clear in this forum that I am willing to listen and respond to your comments about SMART equipment even when it hurts. I have not promised to always be able to solve every problem or please everyone. But I believe it is important for manufacturers to at least LISTEN to what is being said about them and to respond APPROPRIATELY.

Best regards,

------------------
Oscar Neundorfer
Chief Engineer
SMART Devices, Inc.

oscar@smartdev.com

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-10-2000, 11:04 AM:

Sony's TV's are usually very good. I would buy another one. I forgot about the camcorders and car stereos that I own that are made by Sony that have also needed extensive repairs.

Posted by Kevin Crawford (Member # 469) on 08-10-2000, 12:23 PM:

Let all of us be thankful that Christie doesn't go after us. I think even Joe might be in trouble for his thoughts on the product.

But Sony is not the only one that has tried this scare tactic. I heard a story about DTS trying to get someone fired for speaking their mind about their product. This was several years ago. The way I heard it, this guy talked to DTS because there were no discs provided with a print. Then later that week he was bitching about it in a newsgroup. Someone from DTS put 2 and 2 together and called the home office and wanted him fired.

First of all, I defend that person's right to say what they feel. But he should not blame DTS for not having discs with all prints. It is not their fault. They make a great product, minus the Toshiba drives, and they have great support as well.

But back to Sony. I have not been fortunate enough, or unfortunate as the case may be, to work with one on a day to day basis. But dealing with service calls because of problems, they are a pain in the a$@! I would not suggest to anyone that they should buy one. Go with DTS or Dolby.

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 08-10-2000, 12:40 PM:

Sony does have a good side which is there broadcast equiptment, it's the worlds best: professionel cameras, monitors, mixers etc.

I do not like there consumer products either, that's why i have one of Sony's professional 20 inch. monitors in my living room to wacth TV on!

------------------
You'll find a slight squeeze on the hooter an excellent safety precaution, Miss Scrumptious! - CCBB

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-10-2000, 12:55 PM:

Hi Martin,
I personally hate Sony Broadcast equipment. I actually like the SDDS system better. I ahve a broadcast background and I have had to repair too much of it. The stuff's not rock solid like really well built broadcast equipment is. Personally I'd go with Ikegami, or BTL(Phillips)or an old RCA camera any day over Sony.
Mark

Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 08-10-2000, 01:06 PM:

SONY WHO!?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-10-2000, 09:09 PM:

Oscar, you impress me more and more with every day that passes with SMART's attitude and support of their products.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-11-2000, 01:12 PM:

Oscar
Poor Soldering is the number one reason for most equipment failing.
There used to be a guy up here who made a fortune just going around teaching courses at some of the hitech companies up here on how to solder and wave solder properley and consitantly
Nothing is better than the weakest link and electronics it is usually a solder point
Also I must always commend Dolby and Smart for the level of customer and technical support. All it ever takes is a phone call to either Lonny or Oscar to get advice and I have never heard "it isn't our equipments fault, or it can't happen" but a list of sujestions and places to look for the solutions
Keep up the good work

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-11-2000, 03:22 PM:

The Sony products that have caused me the most grief are the ones that are built in Malaysia.

My WebTV system is running on a 1995 Sony 27" Trinitron that has not conked out in over a year. It died 4 times before I got all of the solder problems repaired. For a time, I could flex the chassis and make the set do odd things. The first time it died, it was just after the warranty went away. I replaced a load of parts in the power supply after a "cascade failure" One circuit opened due to bad soldering and killed a bunch of diodes, transistors, etc.
I almost trashed it then, but, I had sunk a load of loot into it, and HAD to attempt repairs. The other 27" is a 1993 XBR that was dropped before I got it. I fixed the cracks in the circuit boards 5 years ago, and have had no problems since. It's a better set than the '95 model will ever be. I think it will last. I still dont think I will buy another one, though.

All consumer goods are getting cheaply made and designed to last a few (years) then die. THEN they make another sale. I could tell you about my 50 year old 'fridge that has outlasted 2 "replacement" 'fridges, but I won't.

(Thank the maker that he stopped talking)

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 08-14-2000, 04:38 PM:

On the SDDS cards I've also noticed that they seem to have problems not only with soldering but also the circut printing, I've recieved a number of "new" SDDS board that have had to have jumper wires installed because the printed circut failed.

The Triniton tube is about the only good thing that Sony makes. I have to say, that they're pretty reliable and have a pretty darn good picture. Sounds like Sony needs to clone the VP thats over the Triniton division and put them elsewhere within the company, then they MIGHT start to make a decent product.

Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 08-21-2000, 12:19 AM:

Okay, there are a few things that need to be considered here. Sony has actually done very well with the real estate that they have on the film. The edges take quite a bit of abuse. They have also been fairly innovative with all the channels included in SDDS (and i thought i read about a cieling channel in a film magazine but i can't remember). Sony had no right whatsoever to do what they did. I really dont understand this whole deal anyway. If you were a company, would you call your customer with a threat? Hell no, thats not good business, especially when there is good competition. It sounds so damn fishy, you ever think it could be someone playing a trick on you? I do agree that sony needs to put more effort into the quality of their products. The only sony product i work with right now is an older SDDS unit that i bypass(im not even sure if it works).

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 08-21-2000, 01:58 PM:

"It sounds so damn fishy, you ever think it could be someone playing a trick on you?"

Pretty sure it's not a joke. I have now been suspended while the situation is looked into by my company. I am not laughing, and neither is my lawyer.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-21-2000, 03:03 PM:

This is absolutely the most chicken shit and pathetic thing I've ever seen from a manufacturer. If Sony would concentrate their efforts on improving their products instead of getting back at people who dare to speak the truth, perhaps there wouldn't be anything negative to say about their products in the first place. Oh wait, no. That would make sense. My mistake.

Dave, fight it! This is a free country.

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 08-21-2000, 06:32 PM:

Dave, for ALL of us Sony victims, fight it!!

Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 08-25-2000, 03:33 AM:

Hell yeah! You'll get millions from a law suit.... er... I just hope your theatre isn't one of those thats in mega debt : P

Posted by Paul Cunningham (Member # 501) on 09-11-2000, 05:56 PM:

Dave

Whats the latest, do you still have a job?

Paul

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 09-11-2000, 06:53 PM:

Well, yes and no.

AMC asked me to return to work after a week of suspension. I guess they figure out that they were wrong. I told them I had to think about it, basically I wasn't sure I wanted to work for AMC anymore. I had been looking for a reason to leave, but didn't want to since I love projection work so much.

Anyway, in the mean time I was scoping out the other local theatres to see if they needed a part-time projectionist (I have a full-time job, AMC was on the side).

The lawyer I was talking to told me that there is nothing that I could do to AMC, because I was a part-time employee and they reserve the right to fire you for any or no reason. End of the story from that angle.

I found a part-time position at another theatre and told BarryWoods I would not be returning.

Botom line. I quit a shitty job that I wasn't really happy at anymore, and got in with a better company that is paying me more. What's wrong with that picture? At BarryWoods I was in charge of the booth, yet now I get paid more just being a projectionist? Fine by me.

The only people that lost in the whole deal are BarryWoods. I am better off, and what the hell would AMC Corporate care about one employee. Not very much, judging by their actions. I also made sure that in my AMC record I offically chose to leave the company and was not fired or anything like that, so no foul their Sony, too bad.

Oh yeah, I am not going to tell you where I work. I figure if I did the ASSHOLES at SONY would call the home office and complain about me again, because the still make a SHITTY product. So sorry SONY get your thumb out of your ASS and get a life.

I don't know at this point if I can do anything against Sony. I haven't been able to find a lawyer that wants to try. Oh well, at this point I really don't give a shit anymore. It was almost a blessing in disguise.

What does everyone think? Keep trying or let it drop?

(There are people who participate in the forums that know where I work now, please don't post that information, thanx )

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 09-11-2000, 06:59 PM:

Personally, I think you should let it drop. Not that you're wrong, just that their lawyers will tie things up for so long that you would never get anywhere.

Besides, they are going out of biz, lost a good employee; you got a nicer job with more pay. I'd say you won!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-11-2000, 08:15 PM:

Sometimes it's better to forget about stuff like that.

You could keep persuing it but they'll try to turn YOU into the bad guy!

Better to cut your losses and get on with life! (Unless you want to be a guest on "Jerry Springer" or something

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-12-2000, 01:34 AM:

Clearly the fine folks at Sony are snooping around here. No one I know likes their product and no one I know has anything positive to say about the quality or reliability of it either. It is SONY who should learn something from this. Surely they won't continue to do this, so I'd just say they ended up doing you a favor and let it go. However, if they should continue with such horseshit tactics to anyone else here, there are plenty of damn good lawyers who would have a field day with it.

Glad you got a better job in the end.

Posted by Paul Cunningham (Member # 501) on 09-12-2000, 02:13 AM:

I am glad it turned out OK for you Dave, it seems that better pay, less responsibility and a better place to work are all bonuses. I think that you would be wasting a lot of time, money and stress to try and take it further. Just let it slide.

Paul

Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 09-12-2000, 06:22 AM:

Dave,

There's a Kenny Rogers song that says something like this:

"You gotta know when to hold 'em,
Know when to fold 'em.
Know when to walk away, and
Know when to run."

Sounds to me like you walked away the winner.

------------------
Oscar Neundorfer
Chief Engineer
SMART Devices, Inc.

oscar@smartdev.com

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 09-12-2000, 10:51 AM:

I figure I made out better so why bother. I still have my 'real' job (the one that pays the bills) at a Large Format theatre. Now, instead of stressing about my second job more than my main job, I can go to the 35mm theatre and enjoy it again.

The new theatre doesn't have any SDDS, I love it. It's all either DTS or SRD, with a few analog only houses. Although it has the Christie package, so now I get to learn first hand what everyone says about Christie. I think it will be fun.

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 09-12-2000, 05:17 PM:

"What does everyone think? Keep trying or let it drop?"

Get em

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 03-02-2002, 10:04 AM:

Bumped back up top for an update:

Sony plays hardball with a man in Southern California.

Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 03-02-2002, 10:45 PM:

Write Sony a nice note about how, thanks to their efforts you now have a better paying job.

Also include the fact that at least 1 cinema will now NOT include SDDS in its upgrade.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 03-03-2002, 01:49 PM:

Thanks Kevin for mentioning my story before I noticed this thread, since this immediately reminded me of that event- basically on a Usenet group I posted a message titled "DTS SUCKS!", which I admit was not the best choice of words, but that was sort of an inside joke directed towards someone else I was working with who insisted that DTS had the best sound out of the 3 competing formats. (I certainly wouldn't use that kind of tone on a forum like this- Usenet on the other hand I've always seen as just a bunch of "geeks", myself included

) What happened was a somewhat major release had a sneak preview showing the Saturday before it opened, and the DTS discs didn't come with it. I called DTS and was informed that the discs hadn't even been MANUFACTURED yet! Since I'd already had several other movies show up without discs and forced to play in analog, I was pretty mad about this. The point of my Usenet post was to say that IN MY OPINION, DTS was not a viable system because too many times I had gotten prints without discs, and now we'd gotten a film for which discs hadn't even been MADE yet, while there was a Dolby Digital track on the film all ready to go if we'd had the equipment to play it. I mentioned the name of the movie in my post, but not the name or location of the theater and explicitly stated that what I had posted was only MY OPINION, NOT that of the company I worked for. I also stated that I had NOTHING against DTS as a company, in fact I was impressed that they had gotten back to me on a holiday, but that I was completely frustrated with it as a FORMAT, as the very nature of how it worked was a big setback in situations like this. The mistake I made was probably the statement "DTS sucks" was taken that I thought that about the company itself, which was not my intention.
I never heard the exact story of what happened next, but basically my manager asked me what I'd posted that made someone so upset. He didn't say exactly who was mad at me, but sounded like it was either someone from DTS who didn't like me badmouthing their product, or the studio which might not have wanted it known that their sneaks were being shown without DTS discs. I saw a faxed printout of my post in the office later with handwritten comments saying "I think this person works at such-and-such-theater". I had to call the district manager and explain everything to him; I didn't get in any trouble but was told not to post any more comments like that in the future.
Here's the kicker though- the Friday the movie in question opened, the discs STILL were not there. I had to do some more calling around, and they didn't arrive til 2 days later. I found it very telling that someone apparently had enough time to get me in trouble for speaking my mind about this, but didn't have time to make sure this problem was SOLVED! Since then I've gotten to work with Dolby Digital equipment and while that format is not perfect either, at least you can depend on the soundtrack being there since it's printed right on the film. Some argue that DTS still sounds better, but I have better than average hearing and am hard-pressed to tell the difference.
As for SDDS, I've never gotten to work with or hear a properly set-up system so the jury is out on that, I do think however it's a waste to have it installed if you're not going to use the full 8 channels. Most theaters don't have the extra front left and right channels installed. My luck with Sony consumer products has been hit-or-miss; I had horrible luck with a Sony CD changer 10 years ago that had been serviced 5 times and was never actually fixed; right now though I have a Sony Beta VCR that still works fine and a Sony sound system that at the time I bought was the lowest-priced system that had both home DTS and Dolby Digital decoding built-in, and I've been pretty satisfied with it. In fact, I WILL say that I prefer DTS's home sound format to Dolby's most of the time. DTS had the better 5.1 system on laserdisc than Dolby as they used the PCM audio track space on the discs while Dolby crammed it all onto the space of one analog track and requires an external demodulator on most systems to work. DTS multi-channel music CDs are great too.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-03-2002, 02:05 PM:

Dolby Digital isn't **always** there either. I've run critics' previews using prints originally struck for trade screenings that were analog-only while the release prints were SR-D with one or more of the other digital tracks as well. This is a studio issue, not the digital sound provider's. If the DTS mix existed at the time of your screening (and obviously your print was timecoded or you wouldn't have mentioned DTS) then the studio could have gotten it to you on CD/R's if they'd been so inclined.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-03-2002, 02:16 PM:

Very often, films are test-screened before the final product is really finished. Work on a major release can happen right up until one week before the film's opening date. Editorial changes can be made and there are a lot of instances where the final sound mix is not finished until right up at deadline. It is really kind of a crime in just how little time many sound designers are given in getting a 5.1/7.1 mix totally finished.

It takes a certain amount of time to get film prints ordered, and it takes a certain amount of time for DTS to get a CD-ROM replication order made. Whatever disc pressing facility they use has to make glass and stamper master sets for those CDs and then do the replication job. So that extra time will likely negate DTS discs from making it to a premiere or test screening engagement.

However, if DTS makes it a policy to supply some CD-R discs for such screenings then things could be easier. I know for art-house films that use DTS, CD-R discs are made instead of regular mass produced CD-ROMs. There's no reason to spend $2,000 to $4,000 on glass/stamper masters if the print order is only going to be a few prints.

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 03-03-2002, 02:17 PM:

Hmmm,

Sounds to me like Sony should take some lessons in customer relations from a large theater corporation (which will remain nameless ) "We don't give a crap what the customers think, we are big, bad, and have lots of money!"

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-05-2002, 07:22 AM:

There is something fishy about the story posted by Scott. This guy bought a very expensive piece of consumer electronics by Sony which he found to be totally unreliable. So after all that fighting to get it repaired under warranty, what does he do? He goes and buys another one. This makes no sense. When I have a piece of equipment fail on me without an acceptable reason, I have a simple rule in life - don't buy anything from that manufacturer again.

Example: Several years ago I bought a Seagate hard disc to upgrade my PC. When it was only a month out of warranty it suffered a fatal head crash and replacing it blew quite a hole in my budget (I was a postgrad student at the time and money was tight). As a result I have never, ever purchased a Seagate product since, and nor do I intend to (in fact the last time I bought a hard disc, I paid an extra £15 not to have a Seagate, and I suspect I know why it was cheaper than its Maxtor, Western Digital and IBM alternatives - you get what you pay for!). I do not need a court order against me to make this happen!

So why did this person keep on buying products he was so dissatisfied with? Either he was monumentally stupid or there is something more to this than meets the eye. Not wishing to be sued myself, the speculation stops here...

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-05-2002, 09:21 AM:

Good point Leo! My old man bought a Land Rover Discovery last year. It was his third Discovery, and god knows how many Land Rovers we'd had before these. Anyway this one was a dog! After a battle with the dealer it went back for a full refund. He'll never buy another Land Rover car again. There's more to that Sony story than the article tells us I think.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-05-2002, 09:47 AM:

Failure of 1 Seagate drive proves nothing. Nor does it prove anything that the [Maxtor/WD/IBM] replacement did not fail. In any large sample of a company's products, someone is going to get a lemon on occasion. I can list many many well-known manufacturers who I have had equipment failures or functional problems with. HP, Dell, Compaq, Seagate, Maxtor, Sony, etc. If I swore off a manufacturer every time there was a problem with one of their products, I wouldn't be able to buy anything at all.

Having said that, I will admit that Seagate drives historically have seemed less reliable than drives from other manufacturers. Though even that generalization may not apply to the current generation of Seagate products.

------------------
- dave
Look at this! His chin strap has been cut!

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-05-2002, 11:20 AM:

Point taken - there can be exceptions which prove a rule, and no mass-produced consumer electronics product can be infallible. That example sticks in my mind because (i) I really resented the money it cost me to replace the drive, and (ii) thanks to having not been as backup-conscious as I should have been, I lost a chapter of a dissertation which had taken me the previous month to write up.

But I do think instinct often turns out to be correct. The other computer component I've had fail was a 3Com ISA modem. I didn't blame 3Com on that occasion because I'd stupidly left it connected to the 'phone line during a thunderstorm, and so presumed that it had been 'nuked' by a power surge caused by the lightning. But about a year later, I was asked by a friend to look at her computer, which she said was having trouble connecting to the Internet (saying no dial tone when the line was fine). Having exhausted the usual software possibilities (this being Windows 98, the first thing I looked for was an IRQ conflict), I opened up the case and what do you think I found? Exactly the same model of 3Com modem card.

Score another one for the blacklist!

But this guy... we're not talking about a relatively minor component costing a hundred quid/bucks or so, but a very expensive telly which costs more than most people pay for their cars. And when it turned out to be no good he just bought another of the same! Like I said, fishy...

Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 03-05-2002, 12:56 PM:

I find it interesting that the guy bought the extended warranty and then, from the way the article tells the story, the retailer and/or manufacturer didn't really want to have anything to do with it.

Whenever I get the sales pitch on an extended warranty, they tell me that, despite what they said five minutes ago about this product being the greatest thing you can get, it's still likely to need some kind of service within the next couple of years. (And then, five years later, I realize that it actually doesn't need the head adjustment or color gun re-alignment or whatever other strange thing they used as an example. Remember when they'd show you the VCR with a clear top and try to point out all the little things inside which could break?)

They get really pushy about those warranties and they say things like, "If there's any problem at all, we'll fix it. And it we can't fix it we'll gladly give you the newest version of this product as a free replacement."

So... if they keep saying those things to customers then they have to accept that some customers are going to try their patience. There are no disclaimers in the sales pitch despite what might be in the fine print of the receipt.

So... the guy in California had problems and, eventually, the retailer refused to let him get the extended warranty again. Wow! I'd like to get that put on my permanent record: "When you sell something to Greg, don't even mention the warranty he doesn't need."

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-05-2002, 01:35 PM:

Among some very rabid home theater enthusiasts, who have money to burn, it is not uncommon for them to buy a new display every time a new model comes out. They will find some fault with the current model that they can't live with, new model is released, gets great reviews, so user upgrades, then finds out the new model has either the same issue or different issues from the previous model that make it unacceptable.

I happen to have a Sony 53" HDTV-capable set (not 16:9) which was very highly rated by The Perfect Vision magazine, and received initially very favorable user reviews. So I bought it. Later, users started noticing the set has problems rendering black levels correctly, i.e. the gray scale is bad. I can confirm that. And many of these sets had a serious problem right out of the box: It wouldn't turn on (specifically, it would not display a picture, only sound)! You had to turn it on, wait a few seconds, turn it off, then turn it on again. My set was like that, and it's documented that many other users had the same problem. Sony did eventually fix it, required replacing a board.

So based on this experience I should swear off Sony products. I probably won't though, as in general I've had very good luck with them. I will be more discriminating in my choices in the future though (I say that with complete false confidence).

Posted by Owen Shave (Member # 1156) on 03-06-2002, 07:27 PM:

One of the areas of consumer electronics I find incredibly amusing is that sometimes the boards/chips inside the expensive products are exactly the same as those in other lesser known brand models. You would hope by opting for the more expensive one, even although it is much the same, would give you more security... the weight of a large blue chip company behind it. Unfortunately as this story points out, that backup can fail to be there.
As for Sony, I don't own much of their gear due to the prices but I do have a story to tell that would incline me to think that they can be reliable. One time I was living in the Chicago area for the summer and my house burned down. Yep, to the ground.. belongings and all while I was at work. Now I had a Sony MiniDisc player which was in my rucksack *in the fire*. I found my rucksack while raking through the charred embers of my stuff and it was melted way badly. I cringed as I remembered my 200 UKP minidisc was inside it but as it had gone past tragic and become funny I decided to take a look inside. Pulling it out, I was astonished to hear Eddie Vedder singing faintly through the headphones.
Yes, my old Sony MZ-R50 was in a fire that destroyed A HOUSE, melted the surrounding bag, burned all my stuff and it STILL WORKS. This was 2 years ago and its still going strong. Hooray for Sony.

Owen
p.s. you haven't lived until you've been standing in a foreign country, 6000 miles from home with nothing but the clothes on your back Fortunately there was a McDonalds nearby and as I tucked into a Double Quarterpounder w/cheese I reflected on how lucky i'd been..

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-07-2002, 05:05 AM:

A friend of mine was in the Hatfield train crash. She was very lucky not to have been seriously hurt or killed, as she was originally seated in one of the carriages that got totally mangled (and in which one of the deaths occured). She'd left her seat to have a fag in the smoking carriage (which remained upright and in which no-one was seriously injured) when it derailed. A few days later the Police returned her briefcase which had been thrown off a luggage rack with some considerable force. It contained a laptop and a mobile 'phone (she never told me which brands), both of which worked fine.

So the moral of the story is, smoking saves lives!