Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Trailers

This is topic Trailers in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Richard Quesnelle (Member # 391) on 08-09-2000, 10:16 PM:

I have been making up the majority of the films at the theatre lately. I read on a past post about leaving some black leader between trailers to give a smoother look rather than a shooting spree of trailers one after another.

My problem is that I don't know what's the best way to leave some black leader and still know where the frame line is. I noticed that for at the beginning, they scratch part of the emulsion to let you know but there is no such line at the tail.

What is the best method for this?

Thanks
Richard

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-09-2000, 10:24 PM:

Could someone with a digistal camera take some pictures to make it easier to show where to cut? A picture is worth a thousand words. But I will try to explain.

At the end, at least on US trailers, there are a variety of ways to mark where to cut. Some use four circles one the edge of the last frame:

oooo

I usually cut right before that. Others use lines on the frames (numbers only represent sprockets, not film markings):
1234
l l

And still others just seem to end without warning. Well, not totaly without warning. These trailers-Disney and Dreamworks-have as they're only clue a discoloered frame. At the very end of the black, their will be one frame that is orangish. Cut as close to that as you can.

If anyone with more experience see's a problem with anything I said, tell me, always willing to learn. However this seems to give me just the right amount of black between trailers.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-10-2000, 02:12 AM:

I'll try and make it a point to come up with a detailed page on where to cut trailers showing the various leaders currently used. Pictures are really THE best way to do it.

Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 08-10-2000, 08:38 PM:

When in doubt, always use your frame counter. You can't go wrong that way.

Posted by Rudy Bergman (Member # 576) on 08-17-2000, 01:27 AM:

since our theatre is too cheap to buy us a frame counter... we tape a piece of leader to the build table. we line up the last visible frame of the trailer on the leader and mark the cut line according to the frame lines along the leader. to leave a longer black strip you just repeat the process using the cut mark as a frame line, lining it up with the leader's frame lines.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 08-18-2000, 05:10 AM:

...or if you don't want to lay your film on the bench...get an old sprocket and mark out with liquid paper every four sprockets. Then you can just put the film on the sprocket where there's a frame line and roll it along with your fingers until you find the area you want to splice it at.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-18-2000, 09:37 AM:

John Wilson:

Sorry, but I can't endorse this practice. Using "Liquid Paper" as a marking ink on film (even leader) is not good practice, as it tends to leave flaky debris on the film and projector.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-18-2000, 03:37 PM:

A Sharpie marker works well though.

However, if the print is a multi track print, you should put little dots in between the non-soundtrack sprocket holes so as not to disturb the next theater which may need one of those digital tracks.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-18-2000, 07:51 PM:

John P:

I don't think that John W. was talking about using Liquid paper to mark anything onto the film itself. I have seen many of these makeshift framing aids in many a theatre's bench drawer, its a 16 tooth sprocket with a white mark painted on it every 4 teeth and across its width, (what John W. was trying to explain that he wanted to do with the Liquid Paper) then attached to a wooden or plastic handle with a screw.... Most of the ones I have seen were attached to a carbon arc hand dowser handle.

Aaron

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 08-19-2000, 12:42 AM:

We discussed this in another thread but here is what I remember.

1. |oooo - Frame line followed by 4 circles. Cut right after 4 circles.

2. ^----^---- - Usually there are about 6 - 10 frames of the ^----. Cut right before the sequence starts.

3. 2 frames brown, clear, 1 frame brown. Cut on the frame line of the brown frame. Now use clear leader or turn trailer around in splicer and lay a full length from blade to 2? sprockets short of edge. This will take off 8 frames.

I know there are more, but these are the common ones.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 08-19-2000, 02:29 AM:

John P. wrote: >>Sorry, but I can't endorse this practice. Using "Liquid Paper" as a marking ink on film (even leader) is not good practice, as it tends to leave flaky debris on the film and projector.<<

Not the film... ...on the sprocket.

Liquid paper on the film...blech!!!

John...I'm surprised you would think I was capable of such a crime.

PS: Thanks for coming to my aid, Aaron.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-20-2000, 06:08 AM:

John: Sorry, I completely misunderstood what you were doing.

I thought you were putting a load of Liquid Paper onto the sprocket every four teeth, and then running film on it to transfer the still wet Liquid Paper to the film to mark the film. Why are you using Liquid Paper to mark the sprocket, rather than something more permanent like paint or a scribed mark?

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 08-20-2000, 06:22 AM:

It's quick to do and it's nice and white so it makes it easy to see.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-21-2000, 05:46 AM:

Detailed descriptions and pictures of the ideal spots to cut trailers are now on the "links" page.

John Pytlak, any chance of pitching the idea of standardizing the leaders used for trailers? New Line's are the best.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-21-2000, 07:09 AM:

I will bring the subject of standardizing trailer leaders and packaging up at the Inter-Society meeting and SMPTE Theatrical Projection Committee meetings at ShowEast. I've already informed our Hollywood lab contacts about the flare that you sometimes see on the black head leader that is supposed to proceed the picture, and can't be cut off because of the 21 frames of sound it contains.

Posted by Mitchell Cope (Member # 32) on 08-21-2000, 11:21 AM:

I think Brad meant to say, "Detailed descriptions and pictures of the ideal spots to cut trailers are now on the "Tips" page."

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-21-2000, 02:53 PM:

Mitchell, oops you are correct. Oh well, everyone here is smart enough to figure out what I meant.

John, can you pitch to them to get completely rid of that "tv cue mark" just before the green band starts? Also, I would like to see a total elimination of those "clear edge marks" that the Deluxe lab is so proud of.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-21-2000, 03:17 PM:

Brad:

Could you send me actual trailers with the undesirable flare on the black head leader, and with the unnecessary TV cues? Also, examples of bad packaging. Showing actual film examples to these committees is much more effective than describing them, or just showing photos.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-21-2000, 03:30 PM:

Certainly. I'll start a collection. When do you need them by?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-21-2000, 04:37 PM:

Brad -- nice job with the "how to deal with trailers" page.

Does anyone actually use the box method or the floor method of handling trailers? I'd like to think that those pictures were attempts at humor, but I've seen enough trailers that look like they were actually treated this way to wonder about this...

Posted by Dave Cutler (Member # 515) on 08-21-2000, 04:50 PM:

When I was first trained, the 'box method' was the way that I was shown, so it does indeed happen. I stopped using that method years ago, at the time I just thought it was too tedious. It is much easier, and better, to just hang the trailer on the autostop roller and pull it onto a core. I don't know how many people I have shown that to. They always think I am a some kind of genius, but it seems like common sense to me.

I have another way to breakdown an entire center ring. We take a center ring (ring and all) and mount it onto a large split reel. (These had to be drilled for the center ring pins) and then rewind the trailers onto cores using the buildup table. This way there is no chance of the film becoming tangled and ending up on the floor. Of course if we are just removing a single trailer from a preshow you have to use the method Brad described.

I also know another way of breaking down entire center rings using only the MUT.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-21-2000, 05:07 PM:

Using the stop roller or a core on the other shaft of the rewind bench just seems like common sense to me, too. Regardless of how gentle (or not) it is on the film, the box method just looks like more trouble than it's worth, and the floor method just looks like something a preschool student would come up with.

Maybe it's just because I'm more familiar with reel-to-reel booths than platters, but the fastest way for me to break down an entire centre ring is just to rewind it onto a reel (using the makeup table) and then break it down at the rewind bench just like I would do in a reel-to-reel booth...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-21-2000, 10:16 PM:

Nope, neither of those methods were a joke. In fact, I've personally worked in booths where the projectionists was using those techniques and in both instances, thought that was THE best way to do it. Some people are just too damned hard headed to be shown a better way to do things. Oh well.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-22-2000, 07:03 AM:

Brad:

I just need the trailers with examples of poor leader/packaging practice by the end of September, in plenty of time to show to the Inter-Society and SMPTE committees at ShowEast in October.

I will also show copies of the trailer handling/splicing "Tips" now on Film-Tech.