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Posted by Doug Fields (Member # 589) on 09-15-2000, 12:26 AM:
Heya guys and gals!A quick question here. Can you tell me if your company has a standardized time for make and breaks. To be more specific, how long are you given to make a movie, and how long are you given to break a movie? It seems that 5 hours to make and break 3 movies and change the new NCN head ends in 5 theaters is plenty here. 
Let me know what you think. Thanks as always. 
------------------
Doug Fields
Union Manager/Operator/Projectionist
Madison Cinema 4
Madison, New Jersey
Posted by Zach McQuaid (Member # 613) on 09-15-2000, 12:44 AM:
Hi, Doug, nice to meet you. At the 17 screen I work at there are two of us working during make/breaks. One to make/break, the other to tend the 17 screens. Generally speaking, we are alloted I'd say an average of 2 - 2 1/2 hours time for breakdowns, (regardless of how many) and about 3 - 3 1/2 hours for a buildup (including screening time). Both always seem to be just the right amount of time. We breakdown on Thursday nights, and buildup Friday mornings, so It's not straight-time anyway.
Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 09-15-2000, 12:54 AM:
where I work i am really not "Allowed" any amount of time it usually takes me about 30 minutes to assemble one print (Trailers to Last Reel) and 15-20 to Break one down.
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-15-2000, 01:46 AM:
I don't think you can be too prescriptive about the time it takes to make up a print - in my experience it depends on what state the print is in, and also the equipment being used to do the job.Example - the Cinemeccanica platters in my current workplace wind at about half the speed of the Kinotons at my previous one, and that makes a reel difference.
A new or nearly new print which arrives in good condition with all the reels head out is going to be dealt with a lot more quickly than a knackered one which has hundreds of joins needing to be remade, is head out and being made up for changeovers (hence the need to wind each reel twice) and which arrives without leaders and tails in the correct cans. Being at an arthouse cinema, I get those on a regular basis and 4-5 hours to make up a print is not uncommon if it's really long and really bad.
It often strikes me that the distributors are effectively getting a print repair service for free out of projectionists. Why should my employers be paying for those 4-5 hours when they are also paying the distributor to hire the film?
As with the computer software industry (e.g. all the bugs in Windows 98), it seems to be an accepted fact of life that distributors can supply defective goods to their customers without any form of redress (on the rare occasions when I reject a print and it is actually replaced, we even have to pay for the transport). Now if there were a couple of high profile court cases...
Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 09-15-2000, 03:10 AM:
At my theater I allow however long it takes to get it done and get it done right. Thursday nights involve myself, an Assistant, and an Usher-B. No one leaves until all the movies are built, screened, and torn down (sometimes as late as 6 am - rarely before 3.) Why would one put a time limit on this?
Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 09-15-2000, 06:02 AM:
At a multiplex I used to work, they gave us the time it took, and no questions asked. And in all honesty, it didn't take that long; normally, we'd build the new prints during the late shows and break the old ones in an hour, maybe an hour and a half. Later, they set a maximum time, which was about 2 or 3 hours after closing time, about 2 a.m.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-15-2000, 06:52 AM:
I agree that the important jobs of print inspection, make-up and break-down should NOT be given an arbitrary time limit. You should be given as long as it takes to do a good job, which will depend on factors like the incoming print/reel quality, orientation on the reels, etc. Pre-screening to evaluate picture and sound of the entire film is highly recommended. Again, this might be an opportunity to offer free admission for a pre-screening to a few tech-minded film buffs in return for their written evaluation on an evaluation form.------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 09-15-2000, 09:18 AM:
Sean, how can you build up in 30 minutes?It usually takes between 90 - 120 minutes for proper inspection and careful build up.
TearDown usually is about 5-7 minutes a reel.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 09-15-2000, 11:47 AM:
I also dislike giving a time limit; making up a print can be different, depending on things like print condition, cueing required, type of equipment, etc.I really like to make shows up at a regular rewind table. I think it's much faster and I can get a good look at the flim as it goes by. I make up the first hour on a reel. Then while that reel is paying on the platter, I make up the second hour.
A place I know of does not have a regular rewind table; only the make up table that came with the platter (it can only rewind a 2000ft reel.) It takes them much longer to assemble a show.
Posted by Doug Fields (Member # 589) on 09-15-2000, 12:25 PM:
Thanks for the replies everyone. 
It seems tat payroll has become a HUGE issue all of a sudden at our company. While I understand the need to control all expenses, I think that only allowing 5 hours for a 3 in 3 out Thursday with NCN changes in all theaters is a little unreasonable. Oh, I forgot to mention. In those 5 hours there is also the downstairs duties also. As a Manager/Operator, I a responsible for Inventory, Marquee changes, Poster changes, Concession delivery... etc., etc. So, I guess more to te point is they are giving me 5 hours to completely change over a Theater on a Thursday night. I was talking to a member in my local Union, and he said that the standard is 2 hours for a make up, and 1 for a breakdown. That seems reasonable to me. It would actually even out when you take into account that you could build up a 5 reel print faster than 2 hours, but you may have a 9 reel print to break down with crappy reels from technicolor. I really don't mean to rant, but I feel as though I am being scolded for doing my best, and they feel that I am padding the payroll hours.------------------
Doug Fields
Union Manager/Operator/Projectionist
Madison Cinema 4
Madison, New Jersey
Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 09-15-2000, 07:35 PM:
At the 18 plex I work at I usually run all the shows in the morning while I build all the prints. After getting the reel long trailer pack done the print goes up quickly between starts. The projectionist at night does the tear downs and moves (ETS prints don't need to be broken down that night). I do trailer changes and break down the rest of the rings usually that next morning. The most i've gotten done on a thursday morning was 4.5 prints and 1 tear down. If you use your time effectively you should never have a problem.
Posted by German Marin (Member # 918) on 02-17-2002, 10:04 PM:
At El Recreo Multiplex (7 screens) we used to make up an avg. 6 reels movie between 25 and 35 minutes (we have Christie's MARS and autowind, I prefer MARS 'cause the reel lies horizontaly, in my country the films are delivered on cores and into a individuals ship cans per reel). Break down a 5 reel's movie take me 20 minutes. Lord of the rings was the longest: 50 minutes 
many reels, heavy weight, less MUT speed to pull film out of platter. When I get a dirty, scratched even full of oil film I really wouldn't like make up the movie, but I must to do it and take me an hour and half. (Sometimes the print comes from little theaters leds by "film done how I want" and old school projectionist).
Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 02-18-2002, 08:22 AM:
30 minutes to build a print from trailer to last reel?
How? I'llbet you don't catch many print problems before they hit the screen.
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-18-2002, 10:33 AM:
Doug said: >I really don't mean to rant, but I feel as though I am being scolded for doing my best, and they feel that I am padding the payroll hours.<That is a terrible way to work. Suggest to your boss that he come up to the booth and observe a typical makeup and/or breakdown. Most don't have a clue of all that goes on up in the booth. After he watches you through a typical session, you can ask if he has any suggestions on how to shave off some time from the operation. Suggest that you appreciate his expertise in time management and would like his input. Try to avoid placing the word dumbass in front of the words "suggestions," "expertise" or "input."
Usually management gets into this mindset of "how can it take two hours just to makeup a print?" only because they have never done it themselves so there is no way for them to appreciate the work that you do. Best way to beat that is to show them.
Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 02-18-2002, 12:44 PM:
Ha ha, that reminds me of the general manager at the Regal I worked at (who had been in the business less time than I had) who once told me I needed to "get my speed up" building prints. I would've had a good comeback for that, but I was so stunned I couldn't say anything!
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-18-2002, 12:54 PM:
There is no standard time set in our company, but the length of the task can vary from booth to booth. Here are seven factors that should be considered: 1. Operator experience.
2. Work area lighting.
3. How many previews are being added.
4. How many reels.
5. Number of reels that have to be rewound.
6. Type of platter systems being used.
7. Condition of the equipment.
I am sure there are many more some others can list.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 02-18-2002, 03:15 PM:
It usually takes me around 2 hours from the first trailer to the last reel, depending on how many reels need to be rewound first. I build 3 reels (or trailers and 2 reels) at a time onto 6k reels, and then those go onto the platters. So naturally, buildup is much faster if the entire print is tails out (which rarely happens) so that the 6k's don't need to be rewound once built. At my last theater, I had a Strong MUT standing by to rewind the 6k so that I could continue to use my rewind bench to build my next 6k without having to wait for the first one to rewind. That was very nice. Don't have that luxury now. Oh well.30 minutes for buildup? How!??!?? One of the managers at my current theater said it usually takes him an hour. I saw him build a print one time: Built straight onto the platter, at top speed, not checking for lab splices or any damage, etc.... That is not the way to build a print. Unless you take pride in Film Done Wrong.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-18-2002, 03:43 PM:
IMHO, a full inspection would include gently feeling the edges of the print as it unwinds, and spot checking for scratches, heat damage, or perf damage. The fastest I would dare do this is about 2X projection speed. Even a brand new print entails a slight risk of having hidden damage if not fully inspected. Not fully inspecting a used print is simply foolish. 
So a two hour show should take at least 60 minutes, PLUS the time of loading reels, removing and storing leaders, and splicing.
I do favor doing the inspection on a rewind bench, rather than while loading the platter. The lighting is usually better, and speed and inertia easier to control if you find a problem.
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 585-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 585-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-18-2002, 04:07 PM:
I totally agree with John. This type of inspection was required in the military theaters, whether it was a carbon-arc booth or whatever.
Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 02-18-2002, 04:25 PM:
I agree with Paul Thompson and John Pytlak. Never doubt the value of bench inspection, even with new releases. Just this past week I caught damage at the beginning of one of our Return to Neverland prints and had to cut out three frames.Building a print properly requires care. It's not a race. You only win with a good presentation. I generally build most of the prints at our thirteen screen complex, but when one of my staff does it, I put them under no time constraints.
Posted by Paul Harnden (Member # 1034) on 02-18-2002, 06:47 PM:
Another agreement to add here.
I knew a projectionist who once told myself and my manager that he could build an entire print in 30 minutes, needless to say he didn't build after that
Time limits to me ensure missed factory splices and whatnot, so my vote is againts 'em.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-18-2002, 07:31 PM:
It is impossible to properly inspect and document a average 6 reeler and do the trailors etc in under 60min and I usually allow about 90 per print when I am judgeing my time
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 02-18-2002, 10:10 PM:
I agree fully with John. I forgot to mention that I do gently hold the edges of the film between my thum and first two fingers, allowing me to feel for splices and sprocket hole damage. I probablly go betwen 2 and 3X projection speed, but the time it takes to splice and change shipping reels and rewind the 6k's easily acount for the 2 hours it usually takes me. Plus the trailers take forever! To me that is the most anoying part of building a print.
Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 02-20-2002, 12:28 PM:
My personal rule of thumb is to allow 1/2 hour per screen for trailer work.Feature inspection and platter mounting takes me roughly the running time of the feature, a 120 minute print will take 2 hours. A brand new print might take a little less time. A used and splicy print will take much longer. So I would budget 2-2.5 hours for a new 120 minute print with trailers.
Shipping out a print takes me about 1/2 the running time of the print.
Also note that this is for dedicated print work. If I'm running a booth in addition to inspecting prints then it takes longer.
Posted by Craig Hanham (Member # 1010) on 02-20-2002, 04:55 PM:
I usually allow 2 hours for a normal Bollywood movie (9-11 reels). Since I am making up for changeover i usually have to rewind twice (off cores then onto reels for head out print) preparation means checking and re-doing splicecs and checking cue marks.
Quite often I am doing the last couple of reels while showing the first few.
So if you can do a thorough make up in less than an hour I should come vist you to see how. Obviously I am doing something wrong. 
But then i dont show as many prints as most of you.
Posted by Eli Blasingame (Member # 1052) on 02-22-2002, 02:14 AM:
I would say 120 min or more would give you a good showing and about 50 mins to put it back in the can.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 02-22-2002, 10:37 AM:
Well at least I don't feel so bad now about the fact that my GM thinks I take too long to build prints.
Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 02-22-2002, 10:51 AM:
Ken, i would remind your GM that it takes you some time to build the prints because you are taking the time to do it properly. Also remind him that sloppy building and no inspection can lead to breaks and other problems, which would result in more time to repair said problem and (most importantly to your GM) lost $$$. As the clichéd old saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.