Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: A 16mm KODAK question...

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 09-15-2000, 03:53 PM:

I am running a 1947 black and white PRC feature at the Asheville Film Convention here in November. The print is on Kodak Positive stock, and the date code is the square and the +. It is either a 1952 or 1972 print. How can I tell which it is? I got it in 1974, and it was well-worn and splicy then. It is still worn, but it got a coat of FilmGuard the other day and has never run more quietly.

The question is, oh great film gurus, when did Kodak stop using the Kodak name on 16mm release prints?

If it helps, which I doubt, the print has a density audio track.

I am suspecting it to be a 1952 print. It had no academy on the head or tails when I got it, and was on 4 reels. It runs 61 minutes, and has been on a 2300' reel since 1974.

The previous owner had a fetish for changeovers in 16mm. I dont.

I'd like to be able to provide some history on the print before the show starts, if I can.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-18-2000, 04:44 AM:

Bruce:

You are correct that the "square" and "plus" date code could be for either 1952 or 1972, as prior to 1982, they repeated on a twenty year cycle:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/h1/identification.shtml#code

Remember, the edgecode on a B&W print film will be black letters against a clear background. Edgecode printed through from the negative will be clear letters against a dark background.

I agree with your suspicion that the well worn 16 mm print is likely from 1952, owing to it's condition. As far as the Kodak name on the edge, that was usually the case, but someone may have left it off the "stencil" used to print the edgeprint during the slitting operation one year. An old variable density track negative could have been used, so that is no help in verifying the age of the print.

Of course, most current 35 mm print films from Kodak have much more complete edgeprinting, including full date information and batch number.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 09-18-2000, 08:10 AM:

Good morning John!

We all know that 16mm is toy-gauge, and nobody would seriously look at 16 for information

Thanks for your input. I want to be accurate with what I tell the viewers --right down to the duped footage with a new soundtrack that I had made in 1976--of a part of the film that broke every time that I ran it-- I'll just say that I suspect it to be a 1952 print with a short 1976 insert. The soundtrack on this ol' VD print is surprisingly decent with good bass and treble response. The re-recorded part is OK, too.

Thanks again!

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 09-18-2000, 11:31 PM:

John, I made a mistake with my questions earlier. I made you think that there was no Kodak printed on the film. There is. However, the word KODAK was printed much larger on the film than it was in, say, 1975. I was wondering if that had anything to do with the age of the print.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-19-2000, 05:34 AM:

The photographic "stencils" (AFAIK, made on KodaLith lithographic film) that were used to print the edgeprint were updated on a yearly basis in those days. The size and style of the letters used may have simply depended upon what was available. Today, many of the slitters and perforators use LED or scanned laser printers, so the "message" can be changed instantly.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-22-2000, 06:43 AM:

quote:
I am running a 1947 black and white PRC feature

So, Bruce... Lash LaRue or Buster Crabbe?

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Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 09-22-2000, 08:38 AM:

Sorry Tim. Its not a big budget blockbuster.

The star is Darryl Hickman, and the lady coming to the convention is Noreen Nash. I hope that she doesn't go screamng out of the theatre when she sees the print.

It will look really good. All the other films that are running will be on machines with halogen/tungsten lamps using internal speakers.

I'm using my xenon Eiki and a speaker below the 10' screen. The film has a great contrast that will really shine with that lamp. I ran it the other night just to see...

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-23-2000, 11:12 AM:

Aw, shucks! I was hoping it was a B-Western. PRC did a lot of them. There's a pretty big western film gathering in Asheville, if I remember correctly.

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Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 09-23-2000, 09:34 PM:

Tim:
I love the PRC potboilers. I have a 1939 PRC called "Buried Alive" The print survived a theater fire in 1954. Its warped, and filmGuard was no help, but it does run. Dont try to count the splices.

The story is about people in a prison that are being sent to the electric chair. One is innocent. Unknown stars, but a fun little film. Leave it to PRC to leave no storyline untold!

The Asheville convention should be fun this year. The only reason they are running my film is because Miss Nash will be there. I've never worked with them before. I only have to drive 4 miles to get there, too!

Maybe I will meet some Film-Tech'ers there. I'll be the one that looks like an old geek.