This is topic the quality continues to decline in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by timothy johnson (Member # 83) on 09-20-2000, 04:38 PM:
I have said this before, and I say it again, I go to the movies less and less because of poor presentation. Well I dared to venture out to a movie at a "chain theater" for the first time in a long time at the Har Mar General Cinema here in Maplewood Minnesota to see "Almost Famous" and sure enough I get hard to hear dialogue volume, off center bulb, soft focus, and to the audience's delight a GC policy trailer upside down with audio in reverse. Intermittent hum in the audio, And the icing on the cake was reel three misframmed at the splice point, and who gets up to complain about the framing?, no one but me. And I forgot to complain about the fact this was a grand auditorium that was triplexed in the 80's, I saw Star Wars here in 1977 and remember this huge picture that made me want to see it five times on that big screen, now it's like sitting in a tunnel and watching a picure way undersized to the distance you sit at. I know people on this site reading this don't make these mistakes because you are all here because you care, but if the rest of the theater chains are to bring the audience back time and time again with a "wow" experience, these things will continue to keep the DVD generation at home where the sound and picture are at their control. We are a spoiled society with more gidgets and gadgets that have to keep out doing each other, so theaters need to put to showmanship back into the cinema.
Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 09-20-2000, 06:32 PM:
Timothy,This problem is going to get worse if the major companies dont have a training scheme put in place.You can't blame the young people who are working in the booth, as they are only taught the very basics like threading and how to make up film fast which only leads to poor presentation.I have a couple of young people who work in the booth with me and are doing well, as I always pass my knowlege and tips on to them and they are always asking questions which is good.The company I work for are at the moment putting a training scheme together which will see trainees are trained well.My previous employer which is the one of the biggest here in Australia has a very good traing scheme in place and works very well.But it dosent matter how well the training is you always get the ones who are not interested in projection as its to much hard work and boreing and therefore dont give a dame about presentation,these people dont last long anyway but are there long enough to give a bad reputation to the company they work for and their collegues,but the majority are hard workers who care and take pride in their work.After 30 years in projection I have seen some good and bad projectionist including some old timers.So its all down to the companies to provide a good traning scheme and selection process to give these young people a fair go to which they deserve.
I have no problem with younger people learning (both male and female)as we all had to learn at some stage, as long as they are taught well. 
Stephen
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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 09-21-2000, 12:15 AM:
I simply don't go to theaters that have been "plexed". I'm sure I've bitched enough about the late 60's Century dome theaters here that are now twinned- even though they have added more screens to that site I will not go there JUST because of the 4 bad ones (which should be 2 good ones!) I've said it before, and I'll say it again, they are going to have to bring back the BIG screens to compete with home theater, and all these chopped-up theaters that are still out there could convert back to the way they were and score big.
I assume you stayed through the ENTIRE movie, and know how to properly register a complaint about this movie (unless they cut that off!) I got to pre-screen "Almost Famous" last week and it was great except for being slightly misframed (nobody wanted to run back up to fix it!) and a hum in the sound system that disappeared when I did get back upstairs. Can I call PHONE-THX to complain about that presentation? 
I have the DTS laserdisc of "Strange Days" which has the PHONE-THX message intact as it was done as part of the end credits (not tacked on at the end like on Dreamworks movies) and I always laugh to myself when that comes on, seeing how my HOME presentation kicks ass! (Guess I could complain about those parts where it changes disc sides, or that I need a bigger screen!)
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-21-2000, 01:23 AM:
Jesse,You should definitely complain to THX about that Strange Days! I have a pretty good feeling you were robbed resolution on your presentation and above everything else...the movie should NEVER stop! Perhaps Steve Guttag can give some pointers on how to keep those laserdiscs running with a slick changeover. 
Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 09-21-2000, 08:29 AM:
You could do slick laserdisc changeovers, but you must have two laserdisc players and two copies of the movie. I have two laserdisc players, but only have one copy of each movie. I sometimes wish that movies that span two physical discs were printed with side 1 and 3 on disc one and 2 and 4 on disc 2 so that a changeover could be done. With it printed with sides one and two on disc one and three and four on disc two, you can't unless you have two copies.This thought comes up every time I have "Star Wars" nights at my house. The only other problem with my changeover idea is that only one of my players has Dolby Digital out. If I did changeovers on a movie with a DD soundtrack, the sound would switch from Dolby Pro-Logic to Dolby Digital AC-3 or vice versa at each changeover. If the movie were DTS, there would be no problem.
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 09-21-2000, 09:25 AM:
Maybe with a DVD "burner", you could copy these to 20 minute discs and somehow reproduce the changeover cues .
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-24-2000, 01:13 PM:
In fact, I do actually have two identical laserdisc/DVD players (Pioneer DVL-700).:-)I also have some mulitple copies of some titles, but they are not identical, sometimes I bought a newer better transfer of the film...for instance, I have the Pan and Scan/time compressed STAR WARS and EMPIRE copies when they were all that was available...When the trilogy came out, I got them in letterbox.
But I have not, in fact, ever made a Laserdisc or DVD changeover though I guess I have the equipment to do it and on some titles I could somewhat pull it off.
Unlike others, I have never proclaimed that the home experience is superior to a properly run changeover movie theatre. ;-) Though I do use JBL speakers (including the JBL B-460 18" subwoofer) and Dolby Digital on the Laser and DVDs.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-24-2000, 02:14 PM:
Tim,
Lets hope for more decline in the overall quality in the large chains! That will only send more people back the the independents which in most cases do a far better job in the first place.
Mark
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-24-2000, 08:57 PM:
Steve,
Do you run change over on the two DVD's? Should be easy to cue them up with the accuracy of the displays.
Mark
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-25-2000, 01:36 AM:
Steve's gonna need a digital time base corrector in order to do flawless changeovers. Otherwise he'll get a vertical jump/roll when he flips the switch...about as annoying as showing one frame of black leader on a changeover.
Posted by Phil Connolly (Member # 465) on 09-26-2000, 09:27 AM:
Unless you use two video projectors, then you can really pretend its a proper change-over.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-26-2000, 02:59 PM:
Only if you had some sort of physical douser. The lamps tend to take a minute or two to warm up.
Posted by Bill Carter (Member # 156) on 09-26-2000, 04:16 PM:
Hmmm... Do you think a Zipper will be standard on DLP projectors?
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-26-2000, 05:45 PM:
A Zipper in a DLP projector? Man I'd like to see what happens inside a DLP projector when a Zipper fries out!
Mark
Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 09-27-2000, 04:15 PM:
Well, it isn't all bad. Two days ago I took my wife to see "Chicken Run". This was in a Seattle theatre called the "Metro" which when it was built about 10 years ago had the largest screen count (10) of any theatre in town. Our presentation was delightful. The picture was bright and very clean and very steady. Being an animated film with all its blocks of solid color, dirt would have been obvious, but there was none----not even around the splices.How come? Well, all the projectors are Simplex XLs rebuilt (10 years ago) by a fine projector mechanic in Portland, named Dick Prather. Some are over SH-1000s and some are over RCA 9030s. The consoles are early CFS (you can't have everything) with Christie platters. The lenses are Schneider. Then there are the projectionists----real ones. All evening shows are run by one of the two genuine IATSE projectionists, each with well over 20 years experience. I am not saying that others don't or can't do as well, but it sure doesn't happen often enough.
By the way, the print I saw was the same print that has been run 3 or 4 show a day since JUNE! It can be done, and with 35mm film.
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Bill Purdy
Component Engineering
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-28-2000, 05:00 AM:
Although "Chicken Run" was shot on Fuji negative film (due to some specific requirements in the stop motion photography), it was printed on Kodak VISION Color Print Film. The conductive antistatic backing layer greatly reduces the attaction of dirt to the print, so prints stay much cleaner, even after hundreds of runs.------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Posted by Wayne Kingston (Member # 611) on 09-30-2000, 01:50 AM:
I Agree, Standards have slipped with the introduction of multiplexes also now herein the UK megaplexes. But this is not to generalise all cinema chains, I have seen horrific film presentation in independents as well as 'plexes. The standard when I first started was basically if you can get it as good as the Odeon Leicester Square london then you are on the right track. This I have seen in many multiplexes up and down the country. Automation can be used effectively, but should never be relied on. All Projectionists I feel should be able to perform a faultless manual show, and doing so at regular times. After all what would they do at film premires? It is upto us to pass on all that we can in regards to knowledge and a "projectionists way of thinking" not the big cinema chains way of thinking. The customer comes first at all times not the shareholders!! Maybe this is why the presentation standard slip, because many of the cinema chains have lost sight of the fact that customers go to the cinema to watch the films, not to eat the concessions or play the arcade machines.
Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 09-30-2000, 03:05 AM:
I agree with Stephen jones in regard to good presentation. It all comes down to the training and awareness of the staff. Many of the newer staff in the industry may not have been properly trained or are only working in projection to pay for their schooling.I have found that finding dedicated staff who are willing to commit to a full time position do a better job. Throw in your own personal commitment to train them in the finer points of film handling and the great thing some may have forgotten - showmanship - and the results will speak for themselves!
It's not always the multiplexs fault, and independent cinemas don't always do it better, it all comes down to who is in charge of the projection room and where their priorities lie. If it is not on what is going through the port glasses onto the screen or down the wires and out of the speakers then it is in the wrong place!!! If you watch a presentation that is substandard, write in to the theatre and let them know about it.
Frank.