Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: House light levels during show?

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 10-01-2000, 02:07 AM:

I have heard that lawyers for certain theater companies advise keeping the house lights at rather high levels to avoid lawsuits, and was wondering if anyone could comment on whether or not they have to keep theirs at certain levels for safety reasons? I guess you can't argue with a lawyer, but I'm used to theaters being dark; is that becoming a thing of the past?

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 10-01-2000, 02:15 AM:

Ours stay off and that's pretty much how we do things out here...up to 1/3 for credits.

We have designated aisle lighting which must be operational, though.

Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-01-2000, 05:03 AM:

Our cinemas stay off throughout the film, and come back onto a preset level around the start of the credits.

Our newer cinemas use four stage dimmers so that we can have on preset for the ads and trailers and then a slightly darker preset for the credits. In operation though, we only seem to use one of the presets.

Jesse, you weren't asking about the level for trailers, you were asking about feature film levels? Is this correct.

I am wondering if anyone drops the house lights out completely during trailers. This was a practice in one theatre, and the effect was great - trailers how they are meant to be seen

Frank

Frank.

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 10-01-2000, 06:48 AM:

This is one of those "can't have everything" issues. Lawyers and patrons that are looking for some excuse to sue are, hopefully, the very rare exception. Doesn't seem like it, sometimes, but that's another subject.

If ambient light levels are too high, contrast within the cinema can be greatly reduced and the reason I'm there -- to watch the movie -- suffers. If I'm late and kick my knee on the back of a chair because it's dark, that's my fault. I'd rather watch the movie in the atmosphere of the cinema anyway, much more enjoyable.

Aisle lights, special directional lighting and such can address the safety issues while still allowing the presentation quality we want.

One of those "compromises" we all have to make might be mid-level lighting during trailers in front of the main feature, and during the credits when 85% of the audience starts to leave anyway. These things I accept and agree with, but for the feature I'd like it dark. The trailers and such might be okay, but I am there for the movie when all is said and done.

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-01-2000, 04:19 PM:

At the annual Göteborg Film Festival, we have strict orders to have the house lights off until the end of the end credits (not counting aisle lights and the like, for safety reasons). Most of the patrons are die-hard cineasts and movie buffs, so they'd never leave a show until it's really over anyway. The downside is that it takes time to get these people out afterwards, and there just doesn't seem to be enough of that between shows.

Normally, the house lights stay off until the end credits start, when I turn the sides up to about 60%. The adjusting of light levels is completely manual so I can do it any way I like, as slowly or as fast as I want, and to just about any level in the range.

When we still were a commercial theatre, I used to run trailers in an almost dark auditorium, or gradually darken the theatre during the first theatre, so slowly that nobody noticed the actual dimming of the lights which was pretty cool if done with enough patience.

Posted by Wayne Cope (Member # 437) on 10-02-2000, 01:52 AM:

During the feature, I turn the overhead lighting down to where the bulbs are barely glowing. The theory I have on this is that it provides a sort of frame of reference for those cases when a patron gets up in the darkened auditorium. It is easy to feel a little disoriented when getting up in a darkened room. (That probably won't ever happen to you or me because we work in darkened rooms and are very familiar with our auditoriums.) This is more important at my cinema than some, because we have a riser, or as some people call it, stadium seating.

Unfortunately, my theory was put to the test. Someone used to work here that insisted on turning the overhead lights all the way off. Several people fell. The first two were young people. The last one was an elderly patron, and wouldn't you know, this guy finally realized he had a bad idea.

I've never heard of a patron falling when I've run a show, with the lights at a mild glow - much less light, by the way, than the typical multiplex. I think lights in most cinemas are way too high.

I use a higher light level during previews. Credits light level is all the way up unless there are images in the credits.

Another important issue is the amount of stray light hitting the screen, reducing color saturation. I corrected aisle lights at my cinema that were throwing light onto the screen - and turning off the overheads isn't going to help that situation! But that's a topic for another thread.

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-02-2000, 05:00 PM:

If I paid to see a film in a theatre and the house lights were still on when the feature started, I'd go out in a hurry and either have them turn the lights off during the show or get my money back. On second thought, I'd probably want my money back anyway since I shouldn't have to go out from the auditorium in the first place.

Now, I respect that some of my colleagues might have different ideas about this, but I would never be a part of it, never. If it was company policy, I'd probably quit. Well, either that, or the house lights would malfunction during every single show. There's something very wrong with an auditorium that requires the house lights to be on during a show. Aisle lights and such should be enough, if properly designed.

I can stand lights when I watch TV, with compensations such as peanuts and a fridge with a six-pack, or a remote to fast forward the boring parts. But in a theatre, never.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-03-2000, 10:55 AM:

Auditorium lights shining on the screen are a notorious "Contrast Killer":
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/december99/pytlak.shtml

If you can cast a distinct shadow on the unlit screen, the lights are too bright.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-03-2000, 08:15 PM:

Our company recently lost a lawsuit over the auditorium lighting. We had a theater we twined, where the balcony was turned into one theater and the orchestra level was another. (The balcony has steps for each row of seats.) An elderly couple were leaving at the end of a film. The woman tripped on the steps, put her hands out, and broke one of her wrists. There were a total of 12 people in the theater (it holds 170.)

The end credits were running, but the ceiling lights were down (at the level as when running a show.) All asile lights were working (a light on the seat standard shines on the steps; one on the left, another on the right, as you walk up.) In other words, the lighting was exactly the same as if we were running a show.

The film was a basically true story; "The Newton Boys" (about bank robbers in the 1930's.) While the credits are running, they show an interview with one of the real Newton Boys on the Johnny Carson TV show.

The operator had waited until the interview finished- then placed the light cues on because he noticed people staying to watch the interview.

So, why did we lose when the lights were the same as during a show? After all, if she tripped during the show, it would have been the same, right?

No. Because their sharpie laywer asked for a copy of our own policy manual that simply stated; ".... put 'lights up' cues on when the credits start.."

Although we did put cues on, the laywer said we violated our own policy. (He said) the policy didn't say anything about action going on on screen; The policy manual said to put cues on, which we did not do properly. (They were on too late.) He also said that we should have known to bring the lights up right away when "large masses of people" leave an auditorium.

So the jury awarded them some money (not much; less than $20,000.) The jury probably thought they were making theaters safer by handing this verdict, but this is what will really happen:

1. Turn on every light in the auditorium at the first credit. This is what we now do, because if we don't, (and someone else sues us) this case provides a "prior precedent" meaning it will be even easier to get money from us. Normal customers lose out seeing a nicer show.

2. Never write a policy manual, or issue a memo about operating procedure. No one can hold you to a standard if there isn't one.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 10-04-2000, 01:43 AM:

So when should the lights come up if you're showing "Man on the Moon"?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-04-2000, 04:09 PM:

Ha! Good point!

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 10-07-2000, 12:20 AM:

First. we kill all the lawyers

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-07-2000, 12:26 AM:

Yep; It was true in the Baird's day and it's still true now...

Posted by Ben Stephenson (Member # 741) on 01-22-2001, 05:15 PM:

We used to run the trailers first and then the ads before the film itself, the house lights would go to half on the trailers and off for the ads and back to half on the credits of the film but now we have to run the ads first and have to have the house lights out from the begining of the support. The secondary lighting ( which I think is too bright ) is on constantly. Another cinema which I have been to have dimming secondary lighting so when the film is on the lights dim very low and come back up again on the credits and will light instantly if there is a problem ( power cut, fire etc ). We have never had a problem with people putting in insurance claims and it all looks better in the dark.

Posted by Chris Wootten (Member # 283) on 01-23-2001, 05:18 AM:

I run an "outdoor" cinema on a military Base, and the lights are fully dimmed for the entire feature. 7/8 dimmed for the ads and trailers. I have a BIG problem with ambient light coming from security & street lighting close by. Passing cars can white-out the screen. Im glad the "sue" craze hasnt hit OZ just quite yet......

Keep smiling all.....

------------------
"I luv the smell of napalm in tha mornin !"

Keep Smiling......Chris

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-23-2001, 05:33 AM:

Chris:

Regarding the high level of stray light on your outdoor screen: Can you work with your security and lighting people to put shields on the lights, so they don't shine directly on the screen? Many times, a simple baffle lets the light shine only where it's needed, and not on the screen.

The same applies to EXIT signs in an indoor theatre. Safety regulations often mandate the location and brightness of the signs, but a simple shield would keep the light off the screen without compromising safety. Unfortunately, I've seen too many theatres where the edge of the screen is bathed in light from the EXIT signs.

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 01-23-2001, 12:49 PM:

John, about the exit signs....try to picture this. In the front of the autitorium is obviously the screen and directly next to it on the right side is an emergency exit door with a exit light on the top. My problem is that if you put a shield on the exit light it will actually stick out a little in from of the screen. Right now the light from the exit light is glaring on the screen (this really drives me crazy). I was considering using a partial Screen or a smaller screen but from testing and putting a piece of cardboard on the side of the sign I relialized it didn't help. Our building inpector is insisting the sign stay exactly where it is....Any idea? We also have a similiar problem where in another auditorium, there is two sets of stairs below the screen and per the building inspector we have to have the stairs lit....of course this causes our same old problem on the screen....YIPEE...and ideas for solutions would be greatly appreciated!

About the theater lighting...in my opinion it highly depends on the movies...During adult movies I keep the house lights on very low and during kids movies I usually keep them up a bit high because we tend to have kids running around in the theater. The kids and parents usually don't notice or mind the lights being a little higher, I've actually gotten compliments on keeping them higher for the saftey of the children.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-23-2001, 01:35 PM:

Rachel:

Some of the newer EXIT signs that actually form the letters with strings of LEDs are fairly directional, shining most of their light directly forward, rather than in all directions. Some new directional fiber optic technology is also coming onto the market.

Also, the technology used to make directional traffic signal lights might be applicable. Not sure, but either a fresnel lens or a fiber optic faceplate is used. I'm sure you've seen the traffic lights that are only visible from one lane, to avoid confusing drivers in the other lanes.

What about just masking the edges of the screen so it doesn't reach right out to the side wall? Then you could use a black baffle to shield the screen from the sign, without casting a shadow on the image.

Of course for stairs, the tiny LED path lights usually satisfy the inspectors for outlining the tripping hazard, yet don't throw much light into the auditorium or on the screen. Use the minimum brightness that still maintains safety.

Here are a few links:
http://www.amt4led.com/
http://www.micalighting.com/
http://www.multimediaLED.com/
http://www.schult.com/main.html
http://www.sunnywell.com/
http://www.techni-lite.com/

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-23-2001, 05:10 PM:

All of our NEW buindings at Cinemark are now using self-illuminating "tritium-phosphorus" exit signs.

There are little tubes of green stuff inside them that spell out the word "EXIT". They don't use any electricity or batteries. You don't have to test them and they are supposed to last for 100 years or something like that. (Actually whatever the half life of tritium is, I guess. )

The only, "very minor", thing is that they are radioactive. There are warning lables all over that back of them that say you have to dispose of them in an "approved" landfill.
Just don't open them up, I guess.

Posted by Greg Pauley (Member # 503) on 01-23-2001, 08:32 PM:

Like Randy, we choose to use the self-illuminating exit signs on all exits around the screen area and LED signs in all other exitways in the auditorium. The self-illuminating exit signs are more expensive, but well worth the money.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-23-2001, 09:10 PM:

Rachel, take sever layers of plain white paper and sandwich them between the red or green color gel in the exit sign and the outer part of the sign. Experiment with different amounts of layers until you get enough light to see the exit sign in the dark without any visibly annoying ligh on the screen. Another idea is to use the smallest wattage bulbs you can find, however even that is not enough, so the paper trick will work in that scenario too.

Aaron

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 01-23-2001, 09:31 PM:

Thanks everyone for the help.

Just to let you guys know...I already have the lowest watt bulbs I can find in the exit signs and use the LED track lights on the stair ways. I was there watching a movie tonight (on my day off) in the theater with the lighted stair problem....I DROVE ME CRAZY!! I need to find a solution for that one.

But really, thanks guys!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-23-2001, 09:38 PM:

Go to an office supply store and buy a few of those green or red (depending on the color of your exit signs) transparent book report covers. Take the front cover off of the sign as if you are changing the light and use it as a template. Cut the book report covers to fit and sandwich them inside. Each layer will darken them just a bit, but so long as they are visible during a movie, you should be fine and the solution is very cheap.

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 01-24-2001, 12:17 AM:

Regarding exit signs...there is a little known exception to the rule in the uniform fire code! In a theatrical situation where an exit sign meeting standard illumination requirements either distracts from or disturbs the stage, screen, or performance, it may be illuminated by 50% of rated output. This may be difficult to get the building inspector or fire marshall to accept, but it is in the code book and if they are diligent, they will find it and allow the exit sign to be 1/2 brilliancy. The new 'glow' type radiant type signs comply with this, but the LED types are WAY too bright! The easiest thing to do in an incandescent type sign is to wire the two existing bulbs in series, thus effectivly cutting output in half and giving a lifetime of service to the bulbs,(you should NEVER change the wattage or types of bulbs, as this WILL violate the code!) the thing to stress to the officials is that the 'emergency' section of the exit sign (if equipped) is still at full brilliancy! Thus no light is lost in case of power failure.

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 01-24-2001, 12:41 AM:

Just so no one thinks I'm "Breaking the law", the building inspector accepted the lower wattage of the bulb

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-24-2001, 04:43 AM:

Yes, the LED signs and stair path lighting are quite bright "out of the box". But they can be run at lower power levels too, as long as they are bright enough to conform to code.

Kodak and film labs use LED path lighting in many of their darkroom areas --- paths and tripping hazards are easily outlined, with minimal light to fog the unexposed film. And most commercial aircraft now use LED path lighting to guide people to exits in the event of an emergency.

Does anyone know if the codes allow maintaining EXIT signs and path lighting in theatres at a very low level during the show, and automatically raising it to a bright level during a fire alarm? EXIT signs must be bright enough to be easily seen, even through smoke.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 01-24-2001, 05:30 AM:

Chris,

Can't one of the F-18's based at Tindal use the security lights for night-time target practise?

Just be glad your outdoor is not at Amberly, then you would have something to complain about with all those F-111 dump and burns causing the screen to glow red!

Only way to run a movie is with all house lights off. We have even dimmed our aisle lights in some theatres as the light fell on the screen. On my trips to NYC at no time has any theatre I've visited completly extinguished the house lights.

David

Posted by Joseph Pandolfi (Member # 223) on 01-25-2001, 05:47 PM:

The first thing that hits our screen which is required the state fire marshall and run on our National Amusements screens is our exit policy trailer which show a still frame of the front of the screen and the two exit signs on each side with a dialog that states "LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IN THE UNLIKELY EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY THE EXITS ARE CLEARLY LOCATED AT THE FRONT AND REAR OF THE AUDITORIUM. THANK YOU.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 01-25-2001, 10:34 PM:

Just for perspective, the typical 20s-30s movie palace with 3-circuit/3-color lighting usually had an *additional* circuit called "dim circuit" which kept a few low-wattage bulbs burning at all times in various light fixtures behind globes, glass, or some sconces. Usually a "dim circuit" used yellow bulbs, but I think I remember someone mentioning an older house with red bulbs in the dim circuit.

Even in non-palace silent-era theaters (not nickelodeons), there was often a light circuit of bulbs left on at all times in sconces, chandeliers, or coves.

I think when houses were that large (small non-palace theaters were larger than most multiplex auditoriums today) it was not so distracting to leave wall sconces 'way over there at half, or rows of those old-fashioned hooded aisle lights with 10 watt incandescents shining straight down. I like the looks of the old incandescent aisle lights, but they sure would be unneccesarily bright & distracting in tighter modern theater designs. But that's about what the light level was in theaters of typical size during the roadshow heyday, in the 50s, 60s, & early 70s.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-25-2001, 10:41 PM:

Well, when I set the levels, I have always left the sconces up to the point to where they are just barely aglow.

I feel that it helps define the perimeter of the room and helps keep people from bumping into the walls, if you know what I mean. Especially in those theatres where the Soundfold is a dark color.

A lot of people go right along behind me and turn them all the way down again, but I STILL think my way is better.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-26-2001, 05:10 AM:

The important thing is to keep the light off the screen. If you can cast a distinct shadow on the dark screen, the light is too bright, or needs to be shielded.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-26-2001, 12:40 PM:

No, there is no shadow. The filiaments are just visible and they aren't burning "hot" enough to give off any real light. It's just enough for people to spot in the dark so they don't run into the wall. (Which I have actually seen happen.

)

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-26-2001, 12:55 PM:

I have no problem with very dim lights along the walls, or the aisle/stair guide lights, as long as they are not in the "line of sight" when viewing the screen, and don't shine on the screen. Some theatres can even run with the ceiling lights on very dim to provide extra safety/security, as long as the lights are completely shielded from hitting the screen. Again, you simply should not be able to cast a distinct shadow on the dark screen from any light source in the auditorium.
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/december99/pytlak.shtml

(I personally like a tiny bit of light over the seats, as it adds to the "group" feeling of the audience).

An interesting anecdote is that I once worked at a theatre that had an illuminated clock just to the left of the screen. It was great when you were keeping track of the time watching a bad movie, but was a constant distraction to the audience during a good movie, ruining the "magic" of the silver screen.

-------------------------------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-26-2001, 05:08 PM:

Egad, a clock! That's about the craziest thing I've ever heard of.

On the ceiling lights, I really do not like to leave them on even at a "glow". They must be fairly bright to begin with to make any real difference in the illumination of the auditorium and for people like me who wear glasses, if there is a tiny smudge on them, the light catches it and is an incredible distraction. Ceiling lights should go all the way off. Side lighting is fine.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-26-2001, 05:11 PM:

When I bought my theatre in '79, there was one of those illuminated clocks...believe it or not, it extended OVER the screen a few inches! Needless to say, removing it was one of the first improvements we made.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-26-2001, 07:33 PM:

Brad: You're right about the overhead lights and eyeglasses. I tend to forget about those fogged lenses coming in from the cold, and about the flare and catchlights, since I've been happily wearing contacts for over 15 years. But I do like being part of an appreciative audience during a movie, which a bit of light helps.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-26-2001, 10:45 PM:

A friend of mine collects neon clocks. He has several that came from theaters. The ones from theaters all have a red neon tube around the face, but with a shield, so you are viewing the reflected light- not the tube itself.

They don't seem too bad. The red light keeps your pupils dilated, and the low light does not seem too distracting. Probably another example of where the old-timers knew how to do something better.

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 01-27-2001, 08:07 PM:

At Famous Players, the sconces and recessed lights are hooked up together. TOO BAD!

At the theatre I plan to open, the curtains will be kept shut until showtime. When showtime comes, the lights will dim down 3/4 and the curtain will rise. The lights will stay on 3/4 until the trailers are done. As soon as the actual movie starts, the lights will be right off. At the end of the show, the lights won't rise until it says "CAST" on the screen. The curtain will finally lower after the film has run out of the projector!

We will also introduce shows with a spotlight on the bottom center of the screen. An usher will come up at 5 minutes to and say welcome to this theatre, blah blah blah!

As for Famous Players,
The lights are soo low when you enter SilverCity St. VBital's auditorium that seriously, there's no point in even having the lights on!

A women tripped inbetween the aisles at some SilverCity in ontario in 1999 and broke a rib or something !
Famous Players had travellers insurance so, the old couple couldn't sue, but now they leave the lights on until the actual movie! It sux!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-27-2001, 09:36 PM:

Andrew, I must disagree with your light up placement. Since there is no standard AND the fact that most people who stay to watch part of the credits are specifically looking for the cast list, it just looks like the projectionist is a doof and can't place the cue in the proper location and/or it is a manual booth and the operator wasn't on the ball. Also, when the lights are brought up partway through the end credits, it is a subtle way of saying "get the hell out", which I as a credit watcher do not appreciate. House lights should rise at the first credit or not come on until the credits are completely over.

On the curtains, the traditional manner is for the screen to never be "blank". Waiting until the film has ran out of the projector defeats the purpose. They should completely close the screen on the last frame of credits.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-27-2001, 10:01 PM:

I'm with Brad on this--the curtains should just start to be opening when the first frame of film hits the screen and should just finish closing when the changeover closes. If you figure out how long it takes the curtain to close and convert that to a number of feet of film, you can add a "curtain cue" to the lower-right hand corner of the frame (one frame only, please) with a Clint Phare cue marker. Then, you just need to watch for the cue and hit the curtain switch/button to ensure that the curtains will finish closing at the right time. (You don't _always_ need to mark the film if there's something else in the frame that can be used to identify the right time to hit the curtain switch). Of course, if you have automation, there are other ways of doing this. (I'm assuming "traveler" curtains here...I've never worked in a theatre with "waterfall" curtains.)

As for lights, I generally like to start shows this way: fade non-sync music to 0%; then, house lights to 30%; then, dim footlights (one color at a time if you have multiple colors) to 0%; then, start film/open curtain. Run trailers. Close curtain on end of last trailer and bring house lights to 0%, re-open curtain on "Dolby" logo (if a Dolby film or run digital sound format logo if in a digital format) or main title.

For the end of the show, my preference is to keep the house lights down until the end of the credit crawl as the curtains are closing. If necessary for safety reasons, it looks OK to bring the house lights to 30% or so at the start of the credit crawl (I usually wait until the first line is about half-way up the screen before starting to bring the lights up).

Obviously this all assumes a single-screen with manual booth. If you have automation, you're sort of stuck with whatever happens when the timer hits "0" and the show starts. Hopefully it will lower the house lights to something reasonable and then you'll have another cue at the start of the feature to lower the house lights to 0% and one at the start or end of the credits to bring the house lights to 100% (slowly). Sound format cues should also be added as appropriate.

I say that I like "30%" for house lights when there is a picture of any type on the screen; this will vary by theatre...some theatres are very bright at 30% and others are very dim; it depends on the audience and auditorium, but I'd say that 75% is almost certainly too bright...

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-28-2001, 06:02 PM:

Gee, Theatre clocks were kinda the "grand-daddy" of theatre ads!

They were typically neon lit, as someone else noted. The one we have at our shop has a violet tube in it. Around the face of the clock would be some form of advertisment. In our case, it is for what was a local pharmacy.

They typically augmented an Art Deco's decor.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-28-2001, 09:56 PM:

The friend I mentioned had a clock with; "RKO THEATER TIME" on it. He ran the place when it was a 1400 seat house- the clock was above an exit door on the right side of the stage. Later, RKO tripled the theater. When they were done, the clock was in what became an exit hallway, with no one to see it! It stayed there (running) for another 4-5 years, so he took it.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 01-28-2001, 10:34 PM:

quote:
An interesting anecdote is that I once worked at a theatre that had an illuminated clock just to the left of the screen.

Clocks seem to have been common installations at smaller & "neighborhood" houses from the teens up through the 50's (& of course often left there if the theater survived past that time).

You can sort of see why they'd put a clock up there - so people wouldn't stay too long & not forget to leave! With continuous, grindhouse performances, people would be coming in & staying an indefinite time. The clock would make sure you didn't lose track of time & left, the sooner the better for the theater. Hey, after you've bought your ticket, from a business standpoint, the next thing you need to do is leave.

I read a wonderful reminiscence of early silent-era theaters written in longhand by a senior citizen who recalled that during the summers of her childhood, the place to go was to the movies, & as the day progressed the houses would fill up with children. At one house, every now & then, the manager would come down front at about the time the evening crowd usually began to arrive & shout "Would all the kids who have been here since two o'clock please GO HOME!"

There are some pictures of silent-era front ends at
http://members.nbci.com/saenger.1/foh/foh.htm

You can see clocks at Woodley's Optic Theatre & the Savoy Theatre.

And one that I've gotten tired of cleaning up, but here it is all rough anyway, there's a clock at the Family Theatre

As you can see, there were worse things than sitting behind a post back in the day.
You could be sitting behind a tree.

Posted by Michael Hunt (Member # 772) on 02-26-2001, 01:03 PM:

When I opened my cinema back in '88 the Building Inspector insisted that I have four 25W secondary lights in the ceiling, as well as two exit signs (the cinema is about 8m wide, 9m long and 6m high and a flat floor).

Two of these lights were about 1m from the top of the screen, and would have made screenings awful, if the inspector hadn't agreed that these could be shaded - so I did, with four hand crafted large painted drinks cans! these saw stirling service for about ten years, when a new Inspector wasn't happy with the level of illumination, and insisted that these fittings be removed completely, and be replaced with a new secondary lighting fitting on the back wall of the auditorium, that would only come on in a power failure - he happened to dislike going into lit cinemas himself, and was happy that the two exit signs over the doors at the back of the auditorium gave enough light to find ones way out under normal circumstances.

He did however insist on extra fittings being put in in our other auditorium, one of which was going to be above a door on the stage that lives behing the screen when we screen films in there - after it was pointed out that this would prevent film shows in this auditorium, he permitted this fitting to be one that we could turn off when we didn't want it on, which is of course most of the time

I also ended up with two fittings on a balcony which isn't used for films, as its at the same level as the projectors, and people would manage to get in the way of the picture, these were illuminating the screen a treat until I placed some Neutral density lighting gel in them (Lee Filters 210) which reduced the light level a treat, and so far hasn't received comment from the inspector...

As to leaving the houselights on during a feature - the only time I had to do this was for a screening of 'The Nightmare Before Christmas' which had been organised by Film Education, an organisation over here that arrange film shows for schools, with back up information, anyway I had a cinema full of seven to eight year olds, some of which were scared by the movie, and wouldn't watch it without the lights on (although at about 30%).

Normally I show trailers with the houselights off, and leave then off until the cast list has finished, when I'll bring them up to 25% for the rest of the credits, then fading to full, with tab warmers as the tabs close

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 02-26-2001, 01:31 PM:

A month ago, Brad wrote:

>>On the curtains, the traditional manner is for the screen to never be "blank". Waiting until the film has ran out of the projector defeats the purpose. They should completely close the screen on the last frame of credits.<<

Just saw this and had to comment. I agree that there's no point in waiting until the film is out of the projector before closing the curtain, but neither do I like closing the curtain too early.

For me, the perfect closing of the curtains is to have them _almost_ touch the last of the screen credits while the curtain spotlights light up the last lines or the company logo (or whatever that is last) and--of course--the piece of the screen that is still visible. The effect must be that the spots fade out the film exactly at the same moment when the curtains close on the credits.

I hate those smallish left- or right-aligned end credits, especially when the feature is in Scope, because having a large curtain "cover" them too early is ugly as hell and pretty much destroys the last of the film for whatever audience that is still watching the film.

Our curtains take about 28 seconds to close, btw.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-26-2001, 04:12 PM:

Andrew wrote"At Famous Players, the sconces and recessed lights are hooked up together. TOO BAD!"
They are not hooked up togather there are 2 dimmers installed the problem is the CineQ automation can't control them seperatly

Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 02-26-2001, 08:18 PM:

I too, had always been trained that the curtain shall part just as the first frame hits the screen, and be completely closed just as the last picture or credits dissapear. I was told it was a cardinal sin to let the audience see a bare screen, thus destroying for them, the illusionary magic of the motion picture.

Festival screening rules, however, are somewhat different. The curtain is to be completely open (and all lights off) by the time the first picture appears, and the last projectable frame must clear the screen before the curtain starts to close. They also take a dim view (pardon the pun) of bringing up the house lights at all, during the credits.

There is an interesting effect to dimming the lights then opening the curtain, from an audience point of view. Squeaky rollers on the curtain tracks make the audience wonder if a large number of mice have been spooked, and are about to start stampeeding toward the back of the auditorium.

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 02-28-2001, 02:25 PM:

Yeah, our festival has the same rules... I ignore the part about showing the complete image until the last credit has disappeared, though. I do my usual curtains routine to make a show out of it. It looks absolutely ridiculous, it looks like if I made a mistake, if I don't.

The end credits must be showed in a dark auditorium, according to the festival rules, though, and I respect that rule as long as the city officials say it's OK. Most of the patrons stay through the credits, in any case, and nobody's yet broken anything as a result.

Well, as far as I know, at least.