Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Your Favourite Projector and Booth

This is topic Your Favourite Projector and Booth in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-01-2000, 05:14 AM:

I know that this may be a repeat of an old topic, but here goes.

My favourite projector is a Kinoton FP30. Next comes a Cinemecannica Vic 5.
Although you can't get them new anymore, Bauer come in at third.

There are no others that make it into contention

What do you all think???

Frank.

Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 10-01-2000, 06:59 AM:

Frank I believe that you can still buy the cinemeccanica vic 5.They are my least favourite projector,my favourites are Kinoton's, the FP50D being my first choice followed by the FP30 second the Bauer U3,and third Century projectors.
Do you work for Village by any chance?

Stephen.

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 10-01-2000, 01:52 PM:

Century Projectors, Potts Platters, and Strong lamphouses are my favorite equipment

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 10-01-2000, 03:18 PM:

Mine would be the the Philips DP70 (simply the best built projector ever built!) and today the Kinoton FP30, other favourites would be the Westrex 5000 and the Westar/Century projector.

They both out perform in picture steadiness than those Cinemeccancia's!

Why anyone would like to name their favourite projector the Cinemeccancia V5?.

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-01-2000, 03:54 PM:

The Cinemeccanica V5 should be any tech's favorite... It keeps them busy.

As for my favorite projector, it's the Favorit70, of course. Simply the best and most elegant machine ever built. Next is the Philips trio of FP5/56/6, but I like the Bauer U3 as well. And yes; I guess I should at least mention the DP70...

My favorite booth is the one I work in. I've worked at many booths in my time but the Draken remains the best by far.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-01-2000, 08:24 PM:

Well, I know everyone is going to let out a groan when I say the this, but I still like Cinemecannica V8's.

But for the "best at everything" I'd say a Norelco AA-II.

Frank P; If you like a V5, then you would have loved a V9. They both are about the same size, but the V9 had an oil bath and gear train (rather then the V5's belt.) Easy to clean, clean design, etc. V9's are no longer made, however.

Posted by Serge Bosschaerts (Member # 298) on 10-01-2000, 11:18 PM:

My all time favourite projectors :

Difficult choice but I would like to nominate Bauer B12 for 35mm and Philips DP70/Norelco AAII for 70mm/35mm as top of the bill.

Sorry for you guys who like the Italian projectors but German & Dutch projectors beat them on image steadiness every time !

Posted by Nick Perry (Member # 361) on 10-01-2000, 11:27 PM:

My fave projector would be the Kinoton FP30D followed closely by the Bauer U3 (The sound head is still un-beaten). I would put the good old Cinemeccanica Vic 5 at 3rd. They are good if you know how to sort out those minor problems when they arise. Once you get to know them they are very easy and predictable to maintain. I mean come on, how can anyone pick on a Vic 5 if they like a Christie??

Best platter. Cinemeccanica CNR-35N.

Sound Processor. Dolby CP-500.

Best digital format. SDDS.

Nick

Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-02-2000, 06:58 AM:

I have a love for the vic 5's as they were the first machine I worked on alot and I guess my fingers feel at their most natural when threading a 'meccanica.

Is there something about the machine that you first work on in depth. The very first 35mm I threaded ever was a pair of Bauer B11. Thoes two machines are still about here in Melbourne, and I see them from time to time.

I have worked with the Christie's. From what I have seen they have more problems than a Cinemeccanica, even after you are aware of all of the danger points. Then again, the service from the Christie guys was second to none - a credit to them. Then again, when you need to replace the heart of the machine so often you would hope that the service is good. Christie's come in fourth.

Stephen, I'm not telling who I work for, but it is one of the larger companies in Melbourne, it aint Hoyts, it aint GU and it (as you know) aint Readings. Naturally, anything I say is my own personal opinion and not that of the company bla bla bla...

Frank.

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-02-2000, 05:52 PM:

Nick wrote:
>>My fave projector would be the Kinoton FP30D followed closely by the Bauer U3 (The sound head is still un-beaten). <<

Nick, are you referring to the optical sound head or the mag ditto? 'cause the U3 was a fine projector in its day (noisy as hell but still a good one if cared for properly) but the original optical sound was an absolute disaster. Anything above 4kHz couldn't possibly pass through any of those, and if you put in a stereo cell, the cross-talk would be indistinguishable from the actual track.

If you threw out the original optical sound head, all of it, and installed a Dolby stereo cell and Cinemeccanica optics (V5, actually; it was entirely possible with a little patience), the results got a lot better. You could finally make use of that expensive Dolby processor.

The mag head was fine, though, and performed flawlessly every time Ihad the chance to run 35 mag or 70.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 10-03-2000, 12:36 AM:

Ok, here goes.

Projector:

Kinoton FP 20 or FP 30

Philips DP 70 (AAII)

Cinemeccanica Vic 10 or 8

Philips DP75

Century

Super Standards (or Super 75's)

Platter:

There is only one, Kinoton.

Favorite booth.......

Melbourne Forum Vic 10, 70mm.

David

Posted by Nick Perry (Member # 361) on 10-03-2000, 01:15 AM:

Ari, must be a Dolby cell! I have never had one with a freq response only till 4kHz. Anyway, the stability and easy of threading is what I was refering to as it's finer qualities.

Nick

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-03-2000, 03:46 AM:

Yeah, I agree. I always did like threading the Bauer U3. I could do it real fast, too. We had threading championships on that one (I never won; there was a guy who was simply incredible when it came to the U3).

So sad that there are none left in Sweden. I hear they pulled the last pair out from a ferry(!) just a couple of months ago.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 10-03-2000, 05:15 AM:

Ari,

No U3's in all of Sweden?

We have over 40 alone on our circuit here in Australia along with over 20,000 individual new parts for Bauer. The Army and Air Force use them in many of their bases across the country as well (did you see the F1-11 with the flame out the back at the Olympics Closing ceremony?)

David

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-03-2000, 06:12 AM:

Nope, no U3s left. The large theatre chains are all running V5 and Kinoton projectors, with a couple of DP70s here and there. The smaller chains and independents have a mix of mostly older brands, and then there's of course my Favorit70 pair.

It's sad. There are no U2s either. The only Bauer projectors I know of are B12 machines, but there could be others.

Yup, I saw the grand finale of the Olympics. Beautifully done, and that includes all of the games. You all have something to be very proud of.

Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 10-03-2000, 06:43 AM:

Frank I used to work for the same company a couple of years ago David was my boss also.The B11's that you mentioned,would you know where they came from?as I worked on a pair of B11's in Hobart at a single screen back in the late 80's.When theatre was closed they were removed and sent to Melbourne I wonder if they are the same projectors.They were very good to work with and very reliable.

Stephen

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Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-04-2000, 03:16 AM:

Stephen,
Yeah, I think they were the machine from Hobart. They went on a Tour of Duty of the Head Office screening room until they where finally replaced with a pair of FP30's. when you had them did they have the Orcon lamphouses with internal rectifiers? That is a seriously cool design(...no doubt pitched at the home cinema market

)

It seems that people generally have an aversion to the Cinemecannicas. Forgive my ignorance, but I've found them to be quite good. What are the things that you don't like? What would you change on them if you could???

Frank.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-04-2000, 06:15 AM:

I think that, as others have said, we tend to have a preference for whatever equipment we started using. Thus, I have a distinct preference for Centurys (C and SA). My only experience with Cinemeccanicas is with V5s, which a lot of people seem to dislike.

Problems with the V5: it just feels "cheap" all over; Centurys feel solid. Threading takes longer on the V5s, while Centurys are easier/faster because the pad rollers pretty much set the loop sizes for you, making it harder to screw up. Similarly, it's easier to get the soundhead tension perfect on Centurys. The belts in the V5 aren't exactly the strongest things in the world and it's easy to screw up the shutter timing when replacing them. The V5's focus knob isn't exactly in the most convenient place, either. The Centurys that I've used also give a steadier picture than the V5s. The V5 changeover design is pretty weak and I've seen a couple of that often fail to open/close properly. The threading lamp is better on Centurys and it's possible to thread them in an otherwise totally dark booth; not so with the V5. Cinemeccanica parts are expensive in the US, while Century parts are generally cheap.

Good things about the V5: easy to clean, easy to keep oiled (but you need to open the gear side in order to find out if it needs oil...), lens turret is nice if you only need two formats, etc.

Perhaps the V8 and other Cinemeccanica models are better, but they're not common in the US. Century and Simplex seem to be the most popular machines here.

Note that I'm referring to pre-1970s (or so) Centurys here...I haven't worked with the later models, but apparently they went through a rough period at one time in the recent past.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-04-2000, 01:00 PM:

Best overall package in terms of reliability, performance, cost and not taking up more space than a stretch limo...

Century JJ (rock steady picture, very easy threading, very forgiving on poor threads, dual format 35/70, won't crack the foundatino and easy to move as well as service)

Christie SLC lamphouse (these babies crank light out, are extremely reliable and have a knack for getting extraordinary life span out of a Christie lamp. Alignment is also first rate without a hot spot.)

Christie AW3 platter (The new MUT leaves much to be desired, but the old MUTs are great. Some reliability issues over the last several years in terms of leds and motor drive wheels, etc, but all have since been rectified by Christie. Still the best overall platter without breaking the pocketbook.)

Dolby CP200 with Aux rack (A damn shame these are not still being made!)

Dolby DA20/DTS 6-d (Both are very reliable, although DTS has had some major problems with the Toshiba drives. SDDS is very harsh sounding thanks to their "digital eq" and the reliability issues with the format are pathetic. <vomits> )

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 10-04-2000, 04:15 PM:

Yay DP70
Favorite booth? My basement

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 10-04-2000, 06:09 PM:

Frank,when I had them they had a bauer carbon arc lamp house on them which matched the projector it was a very good combination.The B11 is a very good projector,rock steady picture easy to maintain.In the time they were in Tasmania they never had the back of them and ran like a swiss watch.The only parts I replaced were the sprockets and gate runnners and changed the oil regularly.Do you know where they are now?
As far as the Vic 5 goes my main areas of concern were the belt drive which kept breaking after a very short time even though
they were installed as instructed by the manual.They always went during the show.Remember once when a esp 3 was on in the bio one went and it took him 5 min to get back up an running I only showed him how to replace them the day before he did a good job as sometimes it can take longer!The other concerns were the position of the cell and the sound drum but i believe this has been addresed on later models and I believe there is retro fit available for earlier models.The main problem I wasn't happy with was the unsteady image on the screen,this seems to a problem with this projector as mentioned by other film techers.I dont know if this problem has been rectified as its been a couple of years since ive used a Vic 5.As for the cinemccanica platters I find them good but they dont come anywhere near the Kinoton platters I am useing now.

Stephen.

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Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-05-2000, 12:52 AM:

Some great replies there, thanks guys.

Brad I agree that the Christie lamphouses are pretty good. One thing that was missing from the manual when I used them was the placement of the exhaust cuttout switch. I lost the flap one morning and couldn't get my xenon going...eventually replaced it with a bit of Coke can!

Stephen, yeah I know where the B11 are, but that will remain a mystery for now, give me a call and I'll tell you all about them.

I have worked with Centurys in only a limited capacity. I'm not sure what model they are (David can you help on that one), but I found them harder to thread and frame. I agree about the location of the focus knob on both, and the Cinemeccanica lens turrets have one flaw, using a 240volt turret motor (at least here in Aus.) I think that the belts are easier to change than the central shaft should it break!!!

Vic 8's are a great machine and have that solid feel that you say the Century's have.

The meccanica's are heaps easier to clean!

Platters, Christies are pretty good to. An interesting theory was put to me the other day that the Christie platter have less film wraps because they lift the film up prior to entering the payout module, and gravity does a fine job of seperating the film layers.

Ari, what are the Favorit70's??? I've never heard of them. Is there a picture somewhere or info I could find?

Frank.

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-05-2000, 06:57 AM:

Frank,

Favorit70 or rather, Zeiss, Favorit70, are license-built Prevost P70 machines (for both 35 and 70mm). They're great machines, very reliable and user-friendly.

You can find a couple of images of our booth at http://www1.tripnet.se/~adler/draken/teknik.html.

Posted by Chris Erwin (Member # 176) on 10-05-2000, 10:12 AM:

I'm a die-hard Simplex man myself. Century is great, but I started with a PR1014, and found if I build my own place, a PR1014 it is. EZ thread,EZ clean,built like a tank.

Lamphouse,I like Strong. Old X-60. I've been subjected to ORC (yuk). I thought it was cool until I learned better.

Sound,Smart MOD's are nice. I want to run a MODII DIT in my drive-in (when and if the time comes)

Chris

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-05-2000, 10:27 AM:

For "sound on a budget" I'll cast my vote for an upgraded CP-50. They are difficult to modify for six-channel use, so they're available relatively cheaply, yet can be made to sound just as good as the current processors if most of the cards are upgraded (108C preamp, 150E or F matrix, 160 subwoofer, 64B EQ cards, etc.).

The CP-65 is nice, but it really doesn't have much of an advantage over the CP-50 for analog sound. It is, however, much easier to upgrade to 5.1 digital and interface it with automation systems. The CP-500 seems to have a lot more potential for stuff to go wrong. I haven't personally had the chance to do an A/B comparison with CP-65, but I can believe the digital EQ doesn't sound as good. As I understand it, the main selling point of the CP-500 is that it's the cheapest way to install a Dolby Digital system from scratch (vs. a CP-65 and DA-20).

I've never worked with the CP-200, but it does appear to be the "gold standard" for anyone who needs to support 70mm.

I don't know much about Smart. The Cape Cinema has one of their relatively recent processors (Mod VI, perhaps? I don't remember offhand) which has some sort of SR-emulation, and it sounds decent. My reservations about it would be that it feels less "solid" than the Dolby equipment and that Dolby parts are more widely available on the secondhand market.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-05-2000, 10:47 AM:

If I wanted to say what my favorite machine was it'd have to be a Norelco AAII.

As far as the booths I've seen in my area it'd have to be the 5-screen in the Randolph Mall in Asheboro, NC.

It's got Xetron lamps, IREM rectifiers and a mix of old Century and Simplex. The platters are Christie Miniwinds. All of them have RCA sound heads and 4 out of 5 of the houses are mono. The big house has DTS, though. USL processor. The big house even has reel arms for for reel-to-reel. You could run shorts and stuff if you wanted to.
The automations were home-built by some guy in his garage. All simple relay and switch jobs.

Yeah, It's small, old and dingy-looking but I almost never have problams with that booth. If I do get a call, usually they really mean it. This stuff just works.

This is probaly the closest thing to a REAL 'projectionist's' booth in my whole area. There are one or two other booths in my area that are pretty nice but this one is my favorite.

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-06-2000, 12:36 AM:

>> The CP-500 seems to have a lot more potential for stuff to go wrong. I haven't personally had the chance to do an A/B comparison with CP-65, but I can believe the digital EQ doesn't sound as good. As I understand it, the main selling point of the CP-500 is that it's the cheapest way to install a Dolby Digital system from scratch (vs. a CP-65 and DA-20). <<

The cheapest way to set up SRD from scratch is the CP650, I believe. CP500 comes second.

We've had the CP500 for ten months now, so far without any major problems. Not many minor problems either, BTW. Not that I've done an A-B comparison myself, so I can't really say if it sounds better or worse than an equivalent CP65 installation, but subjectively speaking, our installation sounds great! I've been very happy with it.

Posted by Philippe Laude (Member # 79) on 10-06-2000, 01:50 AM:

Serge,
you lucky guy! You just own the projectors you love.

Philippe

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-06-2000, 02:38 AM:

Here goes. You all have to know that I had a running list of favorite projectors hanging on my office wall for along time.......this sometimes changed monthly.

Favorite projectors: 35/70, Phillips DP-70
35mm, Century SA/R-3

Favorite processor: Dolby CP-65, CP-200

Favorite Platter: Older AW-3's, Kinoton

Favorite Booth I service: Hindsale Theater, Hinsdale, Illinios: Had pair of imacculate DP-70's, one Hortson and one Prevost 16mm and a Strong Gladiator followspot. Booth was also very small. I had to leave my tools outside the door most of the time.

Brad,
Since when are JJ's forgiving of threading?? I don't know how many 70mm prints were trashed in Chicago on them by careless operators making the loops too big!!
Steady , Yes! But not forgiving of loop size at all.
Mark

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-06-2000, 05:46 AM:

Perhaps "forgiving" isn't the best term here. To me, an operator misthreading two sprocket holes off of the optimum size that I train is grounds for dismissal. One frame off is ok, but I train so the loops are exactly the same every time to the sprocket hole. Heck, I've got two 17 year old kids in high school who can do it right now perfectly. It's not that hard to learn, but in their training there MUST be some absolute method for sizing loops. Trainers who just say "make a loop here and make a loop there" and never elaborate are pretty lousy trainers and their students never really know precisely the optimum size.

On a Century in general (particularly the 35mm only SA model) you've got quite a bit of "forgiveness" there. On the JJ running 70mm I will agree that it doesn't quite give you as much leeway, but hey...what's that moron doing running 70mm anyway?

One MAJOR problem with 70mm I've found is the switch from acetate magnetic to polyester DTS. You absolutely can NOT thread them the same. The polyester loops will shake violently and cause substantial scratching from a loop that was ideal for older acetate 70mm prints. Just to be safe, I remove the 35mm pad roller from the upper loop when running these newer 70mm prints and make sure everyone threads the lower loop very small. The studios should send out a letter in those prints as a reminder.

Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-07-2000, 12:22 AM:

Hey Scott, I've worked wth CP65's and CP500's a fair bit. I've also worked with CP45's and CP55's and have seen a CP200 in action. The 200's are nice if you have the rack space!

From what I have heard between the CP65's analogue EQ and the CP500's digital EQ I think that they both do the job pretty well.

Personally, I think that the EQ's in a processor can best be used when they are under utilised - that is to say more is less. Having better speakers, amps, cabling and good acoustic design goes much further than trying to compensate for room ineffiencies by EQing the crap out the signal - regardless of which EQ you are using (Digital or Analogue).

The quality of the digital EQ is very good. I would challenge anyone to sit in a theatre watching a film and be able to say if it had been set up using digital or analogue EQ's without already knowing it. Please feel free to say that you can, but I will call you a liar

A bigger problem with the 500's is their general stability. They just love to do strange things!!! I'm sure we can all share 500 mysteries around the campfire one day...

Ari, thank for the info, I'll look it up.

Frank.

Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 10-09-2000, 04:32 PM:

Favorite booth? A toolshed with a Simplex
1014 & 5 star soundhead I have in my
backyard. I am using a Telex slide projector
as a lamphouse. The 6-plex nearby closed
down with zilch electricity. Have to use
a flashlight to obtain from it the Simplex
parts i need.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 10-10-2000, 12:28 AM:

Frank,

The Century's you speak of are DAW. That means in Century speak: D = Drive-in shutter (since modified for indoor use, A = A series projector, W = water cooled head for big lamps at drive-ins or indoor.

These machines were used to re-equip our drive-in circuit (40 strong back then)when Bauer went out of business in the late 1970's. The Centurys from new were not without there problems from the New York factory. Several drive shaft failures and one movement seized under warranty! The good ones have not skipped a beat in 20 years.

They are indeed difficult to frame, but so are most others that have there basic design dating back around 50 years, C & W, Super Standard, Simplex etc.

David

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-10-2000, 06:29 PM:

" The Century's you speak of are DAW. That means in Century speak: D = Drive-in shutter (since
modified for indoor use, A = A series projector, W = water cooled head for big lamps at drive-ins or
indoor."
The D stands for double shutter
ie a DAW is a double shutter model a with water cell
a SAW is a single shutter model A with a water cell

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-11-2000, 03:00 AM:

>>The quality of the digital EQ is very good. I would challenge anyone to sit in a theatre watching a film and be able to say if it had been set up using digital or analogue EQ's without already knowing it. Please feel free to say that you can, but I will call you a liar <<

I wouldn't dream of doing that. I'm very happy with our CP500 EQs. but to bring up a related subject: how about the digital SR and A NR in a CP650? How are they when compared to the "real thing"? Does anyone have any comments or first-hand experience?

Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-11-2000, 05:59 AM:

Ari,

I believe that the 500 is still the cheapest way to get Dolby Digital, but the 650 is the cheapest way to get EX.

It is typical of Dolby to bring out a new processor that incorporates their latest product. CP65 incorporated SR, CP500's have SRD and now 650 has EX. What will be next? Inner left and right like SDDS? Ceiling channels? Subs in the seats?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-11-2000, 08:08 AM:

I happen to agree with Ari on the CP-500 eq. I think Dolby did a remarkable job for a first generation digital processor. I have to agree that if anyone can tell the difference between it and the CP-65 on a blindfold test listening to very high quality sound track material then I'll treat them to dinner. I have installed countless CP-500's and have never had an edgy, harsh, or shrill top end out of them like other techs here have claimed. Yes, the 500 does have its problems and limitations but overall performs as well, or better than any 35mm processor out there. I have also had an alomst 0 failure rate with them out of well over 200 I have installed. I have to really think hard on this but I'd like to say that I have had to replace 6 or 7 cards out of the bunch. Thats pretty darn good IMHO.
Mark

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-11-2000, 10:07 AM:

Our tech says his experience is rather similar to yours, Mark. He did replace one processor soon after installation, though, after first trying to replace cards a couple of times. As I understand it was the first time he had to replace the whole processor.

Frank, nothing would make me happier in regard to Dolby processor development if they reintroduced the left and right extra channels. I'd recommend our management to upgrade, without doubt.

Hey Dolby, how about that AUX rack to the CP500?

Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-12-2000, 02:54 AM:

Ari, as good as it would be, I don't think the current information comression/encryption allows enough room to upgrade to have inner left and inner right - they could do aother EX and have a matrix decoding between left and centre and right and centre. I think that the lack of information space is why EX is an analogue matrix of the left and right surrounds - I mean if you have the abilty to have six descreet channels, wouldn't you have seven if you could? Maybee we will see the Double D logo appearing on both sides of the film in the future??????

Mark, I am curious as to whether the units you've installed have internal or external crossovers? I think the CAT 683 card has caused us more problems than any other card. We also have a few power supplys blow.

Are there any quirks that are inherent with the CP650's? How common are they these days?

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-12-2000, 07:21 AM:

We have the 683 crossover card and it's performed flawlessly so far.

The only quirks we have with the CP500 are the usual ones with the LCD display and the event logging. Nothing that affects the actual operation.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-12-2000, 05:10 PM:

I have only installed CP-500's with the 683 x-over in about 20 booths. I have had good luck with the 683 card and it does work flawlesly with JBL 4675's and 4670D's. I have not used it on any other speakers. I think I may have had one CP500 loose a supply, one lost a non-sync card, and several lost video cards. Thats about it. The other stories I have heard form other techs having bizarre problems are certainly entertaining to hear but I have never experienced any funky things with any 500's. The only glitch and one they(Dolby)can not solve is the subwoofer level indicator problem on the LCD. It will sometimes jump up and down and if you reset the unit it goes away till.....next time. Its a computer after all. But a darn good one.
Mark

Posted by David M. Huskinson (Member # 608) on 10-12-2000, 05:44 PM:

I guess because I learned on them, I would have to say Simplex XL's on SH 1,000's (?) with Strong Futura II Lamphouses. The Theatre was the Thunderbird Drive-in in Northern California. A single screen with an asphalt lot and almost 1800 speakers. PVC connectors on the base of poles so the lot always looked perfect. You could fix a 'down' pole in just under 5 minutes. The port glass ran almost the length of the booth and the view in the summertime was phenomenal. Changeovers on 2,000 foot reels made this a real dream job.

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 10-12-2000, 08:34 PM:

I have to digress further than old Dave...
Gloss black Super Simplex on RCA 9030s with
Peerless type E lamps...they ran so quiet,
I didn't know the #2 machine was on one night while running Sound Of Music to a full house
at Lake Tahoe! When the old 'can't scratch' reel end alarm went off, I only had 1 minute
to unload, rewind & reload the #2 machine!
Needless to say, we had a dark screen for about 45 seconds!!! Oh Well!

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-13-2000, 04:11 PM:

Mark,

As I heard it, the reason why Dolby can't solve that annoying subwoofer level indicator problem is simply that the (damned good) computer is rather old by now. It doesn't have enough memory or computing power to have a subsequent software release fix the problem. Simply put, there's not enough room. That's what our tech says, anyway.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-13-2000, 04:44 PM:

Arri, Your tech is absolutely right. The 500 is at its software digesting limits. Then subwoofer thing doesn't really matter anyway, its kind of amusing.
Mark

Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 10-14-2000, 01:51 AM:

Well, as I have only worked in three different booths, I have not been exposed to working with the variety of equipement that a vast number of my fellow film-techers have.

When I worked for H---- I didn't pay as much attention to what kinds of machines I worked with...

First theater I was at had Christie P35GPs (not 100% certain on that detail), Christie AW3R platters, XeTron XCN consoles.
All in all, things ran pretty well there.

Second theater I was at had the same types platters & lamphouses as the first, but instead had Century projectors. I'm not sure which model, they did 35mm only, and were nothing but a big headache for me. Oily, greasy, gear driven machines with an affinity for wrapping and fusing film to the soundheads, and in general, munching on the film.

The both I am in now has Christie AW3R platters, ORC lamphouses, two Century JJ2 projectors and eight Christie P35C projectors.
Very few problems.

Given what I was trained on, and have worked with, I prefer the Christie projectors. I don't even have to think when I thread, my fingers know what they are doing. I could probably thread one of those things blindfolded!

If there were some certain ammenities that I feel are lacking in the booth I am in now, it would be my favorite booth, given how well I know the quirks of the equipment and how to outfox them to avoid problems. I just have to keep my hopes up that one day the booth fairy godmother will appear and grant some of my wishes...

~The Purple-Tressed Booth B*tch

------------------
In some cultures, what I do is considered normal.

Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-14-2000, 06:20 AM:

Hey Gracia,

You right about being able to thread the machine you learn on blindfolded. I was taking a group of people through my first projection room and while showing off, I was blindfolded and threaded the projector...got it in frame too! (believe it or not)

Mmm, I've only worked with a few centurys (and a few Monee's - cheap Indian copy of a Century). Mmm, Oily, greasy - its all coming back to me now...

Sounds like most of you guys over there have Christies and Centurys everywhere (sucks to be you guys ) Is that a consious effort to support the local economy? Is it because spare parts are easier to get? Is it because other machines (such as Kinoton or Cinemcannica) are more expensive to import? Or is it because in your oppinion they are better machines?

Posted by Larry Shaw (Member # 388) on 10-16-2000, 04:34 PM:

An more revealing topic might be:

1. What equipment have you personally run for a significant length of time?

2. Which amongst those is your favorite?

Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-16-2000, 09:02 PM:

Larry,

I've mostly run Cinemecannicas and Kinotons here in Aus and Christies in other parts of the world.

I've also ran Bauers and Centurys, but in smaller amounts.

I've had the very recent pleasure of moving some Kalee heads around, man they are heavy!!!

I still think that Kinoton, Cinemecannica and Bauer projectors rank in my top three. What I've seen with Century, Monee and Christie has not been overly bad, infact, I have had generally good experiences with these machines, but only after I worked out the inticate quirk

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-17-2000, 12:14 PM:

1. Projectors: Zeiss Favorit70; Philips FP5, FP6; Bauer U3; Cinemeccanica Victoria 5; Philips DP70; Bauer Selecton II O

Sound processors: CP50; CP100; CP55; CP65; CP500

2. Projectors: Favorit70; Philips FP5

Processors: CP50, CP100 (yeah, I'm a bit sick, why?), CP500

Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 10-17-2000, 12:47 PM:

I love my Cinemeccanica V-8. And those who don't like Cinemeccanica,

...

Would not mind to get my hand on a DP70...sometime...my friend Per has two in his booth, but never runs c/o's??

For sound i like the Dolby CP65 with cat. 350 SR cards. Sound head is upgraded to redlight. For lenses i like Isco HD studio.
No digital in my room, at least not now, i think i am going for SRD at the moment.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-17-2000, 01:31 PM:

I have to admit that the V-8 is an impressive looking machine

, and it does handle 70mm pretty well, but the 35mm end of it is lacking abit on side weave plus it does not handle old, splicy, 35mm stuff very well. The V-8's however are built very well and run for years and years. Just too expensive for parts these days. Still can't figure out why the DP-70's were pulled from the Collesium in Oslo and replaced with V-8's. Pretty strange indeed. I once met some guys from Switzerland at THX school that hated DP-70's. They prefered US built machines over the DP-70.
Mark

Posted by Ari Nordström (Member # 288) on 10-17-2000, 01:46 PM:

The DP70 is impressive-looking, too.

But why anyone would prefer it to the Favorit70 is beyond me.

Posted by Florian Pausch (Member # 708) on 10-17-2000, 04:01 PM:

Favorite projectors:
70:
Bauer U 2
35:
all the Bauers I know and have worked with(M5, M7, B8b, B11, B14),
Philips/Kinoton FP 20,
Ernemann I, II, VII B "left handed"
16:
Hortson "G" with HI-lamp for the worst prints of 16 mm,
Kinoton FP 18 for best picture and sound quality in 16 mm
35/16:
Friedl-Chaloupka ZP 16, a viennese construction with both formats in the same optical axis, a forerunner of Ernemann´s solution
Favorite booth:
my current workplace, the box of Filmarchiv Austria´s "Imperial Kino", built 1912, projector genealogy: 1912: 1 Ernemann I, 1929: 2 Western Electric "Universal", 1938: 2 Ernemann VII B "left/right", 1988: 2 Philips FP 20/Dolby Stereo, Nov.2000: 2 Bauer U2.
NO platter, no tower, the only luxuries are a Kinoton Matrix and the famous HASSO-rewinder.

------------------
Florian Pausch
projectionist and technician
Filmarchiv Austria,Vienna
www.filmarchiv.at
fpausch@aon.at

Posted by Frank Prete (Member # 627) on 10-18-2000, 05:47 AM:

Mark, I don't know much about the DP70's but they may have been replaced with Vic 8's to allow for easier use of turrets and aperture changes.

Ari, who are the Favourit70's sold through? Until you mentioned them, I'd never heard of them, and there aren't any dealers that I know of that supply them here in Australia.

Martin, have you seen the new Schneider variable prime lenses? We have them in one of our theatres that we recently upgraded. They are simply fantastic.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-18-2000, 10:41 AM:

The favorite 70 is made by prevost
originally they were made by prevost for ernaman (zies Ikon) along with the 16b machine
The difference was mainly the motor
They are still available through any prevost agent

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-14-2000, 12:38 AM:

A while back I mentioned about one of my favorite booths and the platters they have. They are Christie Mini-Winds.

I know a lot of people don't like them. One of the problems they have is that they throw prints pretty easily. Well, I thought this solution was interesting.

... and a closer view...

Appearently, one of the guys who worked there years ago decided enough was enough and went to town on the platters. It may look like hell but it worked. They haven't thrown a print in years. The only drawback is that you can't put as much film on them because of the hardware and the holes. That's rarely a problem, though. If a print is that big, they would probably split it in two anyway.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-14-2000, 01:31 AM:

That was an awesome idea to make that outer ring to retain the print in the event it got squirrely!

I like the MW3 platter as long as it is not one of the 'single board' models that are prone to failures that usually result in the mainboard catching fire, destroying it, and they [the single board MW3's] are no longer supported by Christie and the replacement mainboard is no longer available. The newer model MW3's have a modular chassis design like their big brother AW3 eliminating the mainboard and if something caught fire on the newer one just the part(s) that actually flamed out would have to be replaced.

Aaron

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-14-2000, 06:05 AM:

The idea of using a retaining ring around the print to prevent "platter fling" is discussed in my article "Platter Patter" in the September 1999 issue of Film Notes for Reel People:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/september99/pointers.shtml

A retaining ring could be made out of flexible PVC pipe or heavy garden hose formed into a ring, and adjustable for various diameters around the film roll. Be sure to attach it to the platter surface, or use Stick-a-poos or "Bevan-poos" to keep it in place.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Jon Bartow (Member # 241) on 12-14-2000, 08:38 PM:

One of my theaters uses an aluminum ring similar to the one pictured above (except on a AW-3R) except that instead of drilling holes in the platter the ring is held on with eight very short shock cords with hooks on the end. Works well!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-15-2000, 12:11 AM:

I still wish the Brenkert was made - to the same specs as they were in the 40's. My favorite of the Brenkerts was the BX-80. The latest model of the Brenkert was the BX-100, and I think the last BX-100 was built in 1952. Maybe Brad knows. But since I am an old carbon arc man, my favorites are Brenkert, Simplex E-7, and Simplex XL.

Sound heads? RCA MI-9030 and the Simplex SH-1000 were the best! (if you add a drop of oil now and then to the gear box).

Speaking of which----when you check the oil levels of the gearbox in the RCA's and SH-1000's and SH-1004's, please make sure you break the vacuum lock when you do it. Especially the RCA's. Then let the oil settle to it's true level and add oil as necessary. Then let it settle again....and again...I usually force feed them. If they become too full, all you will have is a mess on the floor the next morning. It is much better than a stripped gear and bearings that feel like someone poured Poly-Grip into them...

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-15-2000, 12:17 AM:

I made those platter rings about 7 years ago and used them. They worked beautiful. I made mine out of an aluminum band. I regret I did not patent them, as that costed money I did not have, not to mention the red tape and hoops that I would have to jump through to get them patented. The ones I made are still in use today.

Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 12-15-2000, 05:41 AM:

Paul, I really like my Brenkert BX-40's. I used to run a pair in the carbon arc days of the '60's. I'm sure they aren't as steady as top of the line modern equipment, but they are indeed rugged, perfect for home theater, and will still be working long after I'm gone!

BTW No carbon arcs at home.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-15-2000, 07:06 AM:

Some good testimonials for the use of platter rings to restrain the film roll to prevent "platter fling". Might be something the platter manufacturers would like to offer as an option. Pat? Bevan? Gene? Or maybe Kelmar? Teco?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-15-2000, 08:34 AM:

Jeff,
You will probably find that your BX-40's are steadier than most modern new projectors. New Kinoton and Century being the exception here.
Best,
Mark

Posted by Peter Martin (Member # 649) on 12-16-2000, 06:48 AM:

Kinoton and Cinemeccanica are probably the best projectors overall. Ugly as sin, but mechanically sound, simple, very reliable and usually provide a good steady picture. US-made projectors all seem to suffer from annoying little problems that, considering how long they have been around, should have been ironed out years ago. Like how long did it take Christie to get around to trying to fix the basement digital soundhead problems? And they're still not right!

As for sound, we have installed quite a number of CP500s and probably 50% have had some kind of fault either on installation or shortly thereafter. However I am not surprised to hear other techs say they have not had any problems. Many of the CP500 problems are intermittent and therefore not apparent all the time and tend to get overlooked, or are not noticed, by projectionists and technicians because they do not get the opportunity to stay in the auditorium for very long at a time. It is the poor suffering audiences that have to cope with the annoying glitches.

Unlike analogue processors, the CP500 suffers from really weird stuff - like in one cinema the sound kept going to a delayed echo effect. When we took a closer listen, the centre was staying constant but the left and right screen channels would start to emit dialogue about 20mS delayed behind the centre. This would come and go throughout the movie. Really annoying. Maybe Dolby just send all their crap to Australia.

It is great shame that Panastereo is not widely available in the USA. Now THAT is a beautiful sounding cinema processor, but probably a bit too expensive for most el cheapo cinema chains in the USA. Also I think they are distributed in the US by Smart who would have to make the crappiest cinema processors since the Eprad. Not a good marketing move on Panastereo's part.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-16-2000, 04:39 PM:

Jeff, those BX-40's you have are a very good machine. But man, those things weigh a ton! I think they were cast iron cases, where the BX-60, BX-62, BX-80, and BX-100 were cast aluminum. But, all of those Brenkerts are fondly loved in the drive-in theaters. No matter how rottin' the film was, they passed through the old Brenkerts almost perfectly. I once made a loop and literally cut out one side of the film's sprocket perfs (about 6 inches worth) and it went right through a BX-80 successfully for 18 passes before it finally broke. Try that with a Century or a Simplex. You'll be lucky if you got one pass out of it.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-16-2000, 04:47 PM:

Actually the Motiograph AAA could run film that had very little left to it flawlessly

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-16-2000, 08:07 PM:

Once I was running some trailers as a test for the bosses and once I was done I went to break them down. I put it on the rewinder and about half way through the reel, the film snapped. I thought, "What the F***!" Upon examination I found that earlier on I had just taped the film together "temporarily" and put it away to be broken down later. I grabbed that reel for the test and just played it without thinking. It stayed in frame and everything.

It was in a Simplex PR-1003. I never even thought about it until after I was done running it! Probably a one-in-a-million shot, though.

Actually, I tell people that this proves that my CRAPPY work is better than some people's GOOD work!

Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 12-17-2000, 06:13 AM:

Paul, You're absolutely right, these Brenkerts weigh a ton and a half. Just ask my poor wife (aka "workhorse) who helped me move these minsters around during refurbishing and reassambly onto the soundheads!!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-18-2000, 06:14 PM:

Jeff, if you dropped a Brenkert BX-40, it would not stop until it reached China

Anyway, last time I looked in my storage shed, I had a bunch of carbons. How good they are - I don't know. You pay the postage, I'll probably give them to you. (maybe) Ain't I nasty?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-18-2000, 06:20 PM:

Gordon, those old MOCHEES were nobody's fool. There are still several in operation that I know of here in Washington State. And, they are running great! Personally, I really don't care for them too much, as they are a ***** to work on. I understand parts for those things are very scarce now, unless Wolk still supports them.

There is one machine that is REALLY a pile of garbage - and those were the old military surplus Devry's. I can't recall the model No., but supposedly, was a "portable". All you needed was a pedistal to set it on and a lamphouse. Probably the reason they were portable is so the operator could carry them to the dumpster - That's where they belong! And, I think that's where they probably all are - in landfills. The last one I saw was about 10 years ago.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-18-2000, 08:57 PM:

I felt that V8's handled damaged film well, because of the larger sprockets and the "no tension" soundhead.

Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 12-19-2000, 05:26 AM:

Paul, thanks for the offer of the carbons. However, I've been out of that loop for about 40 years! I'll bet someone on this forum is still buring them and can use them.

Jeff

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 12-22-2000, 09:56 PM:

Well, I have worked with various types of equipment. I have used the following.

Century
pro 35's
westar
simplex

I currently use the simplex 1050's with five star soundheads. speco platter systems and cfs consoles. (yes I work for Cinemark). I definitly like the simplex projectors. Platters run great. Consoles run good but I know they could be better. I use the older type consoles 11 years old so they don't have as many problems as the others. Here is a piece of advice for all of you who use these consoles. If your lead wires for the diodes still have the red and blue sleeves over them get rid of them. All they are doing is causing heat to build up on the diodes causing them to short out. This could greatly reduce your diode changes. Also if you are in the habbit of changing the power tap settings as the bulb ages try leaving it at one setting and stop moving it. We have found that it stresses the diodes among other problems.

Well, this is my first post. Hope I didn't ramble on to long.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-23-2000, 01:28 PM:

Hi Paul,
I agree those old BX Brenkerts were amazing. I used to ahve an old print of 2001 that was mag optical and had bad vinegar syndrome. No other machine could run the print. I used to overhaul allot of these machines. That are darn amazing!
Mark

Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 08-03-2002, 10:44 AM:

While I have only had the privelage of working a few projection booths, I can solidly say that the Strong Platters, Lamphouses, Projector Heads, have all been my preferred choice. A couple theaters around Boston have Century heads and while they seem to run fine they are a bit older and thus more cramped than the Strongs I have in Danvers. I have pretty big hands, so the convenience is a big issue with me. Where it would take me 60-80 seconds to thread my Strongs, it would take 3 minutes to thread a Century. I also haven't run into anything wrong presentation wise. A lot of our app. plates need recutting, and some of our lenses have been the wrong size from when the theater opened in '98 (both projectionists and technicians have complained, the company has still done nothing about it. I am unhappy with the changeover though, often we have them slipping down and cutting the picture off right after they open to start the trailers.

I have had a lot of people look at me like I have three heads for saying I love the Strong MUTs and Platters, but they are faster for print work than any others I've used by about 50% and I haven't had major problems with them breaking down on me. The only complaint we had was the film would occasionally jump the guide rollers on the brains and cause a wrap, but we solved that by putting elastics around the rollers that would not obstruct the film path. Strong could solve this just by adding a couple inches to the roller height.

------------------
"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."

Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-03-2002, 01:23 PM:

Century, Ballantyne, and Simplex projectors are all made by Strong now and carry the Strong logo. Which machines are you comparing to [pre-Strong] Centurys?

I do agree with you on Strong lamps and platters though.

I have also discovered Kniesley can be as good as Strong for light output

-Aaron

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-03-2002, 02:44 PM:

Speed is generally more of a negative thing than a positive thing in a booth where people care about presentation. I could understand the point if a piece of equipment just ran way too slow, but Strongs have way too much speed capability. Those operators who use the high end of their capability are not putting too much care into the film and usually just want to go home early.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 08-03-2002, 03:42 PM:

Hey, Brad,

Did you ever work a carbon light, Simplex XL, reel house where the schedule called for a slide intro to the spotlighted organ overture followed by a reel of trailers (flat) A scope short and "The Crunch Bird" cartoon (flat) followed by the feature in Scope? You might have a new appreciation for speed in loading and a fair knowledge of Chess is also helpful.

This was the booth we took all of our wannabee operators to visit before signing them on for training.

KEN

The "Crunch Bird" is 60 seconds long. Not much film on that reel!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-03-2002, 05:58 PM:

Kenneth,

I don't see where a Simplex XL is a harder machine to thread than others, but yes I have worked in "sort of" a similar situation. In college I ran a theater that did not have a splicer. The bottom line was we had to run each trailer INDIVIDUALLY with a changeover in between each one. We also ran a cartoon before the feature and had to operate a manual light board. We had to be very fast and when we had to run a 30 second teaser, it HAD to be the first trailer shown. We did also frequently run 60 second reels. Your scenario is nothing new to me.

However Kenneth, your points are off of the main point I was trying to make. My point was directly in relation to Strong's platter loading and unloading too fast to be safe for the film. This has nothing to do with being speedy in the booth in general, as the points were associated with platters.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 08-03-2002, 09:22 PM:

OUCH!
Barry Martin Said
"I have pretty big hands, so the convenience is a big issue with me. Where it would take me 60-80 seconds to thread my Strongs, it would take 3 minutes to thread a Century."

Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 08-04-2002, 03:21 AM:

As for the speed issue, I can both agree and disagree. I have seen scratches come up due to excessive speed used on platters. I myself always used a lubricant on the rollers of the MUT and made sure to set the rollers a little above the platter and never had any problems. As for getting home early, I would have milked it for every minute I could get, but I was corporate trained and corporate training means you are "efficient" and not "proficient".

Once I started hearing about inspecting film while building/breaking down I tried to implement it but the manager wouldn't go for it. This was when we had 2 people working each shift on Thursday (AM and PM) plus someone extra on midday for "print work". Shortly before the unionization we were cut down to 3 people on Thursday and only given a certain number of hours allowed to complete the work (12-8, the midday basically took care of builds, the closer generally took care of breakdowns (me)).

So as far as preferring quality over quantity, I am with you. Unfortunately, the company that paid me (and I'm guessing most) are not. I am killing myself here because I cannot recall the exact model of Centurys used in the theaters I worked, because I only did a day or two here and there. It's on the tip of my tongue, but it's just been too long. Will check with some other guys to see if they remember. If anyone worked the Fresh Pond or Assembly Square theaters, those are the ones I am referring to.

------------------
"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."

Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 08-05-2002, 04:26 AM:

They are Century SA's and Assembly has one JJ (35/70).

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-05-2002, 06:04 AM:

15 minutes to break down a typical length feature is plenty, but there are only two platters on the market that can do it to my knowledge without causing damage, the Christies and SPECOs. Other platters require manual human tensioning and going any speed at all does damage the print to some degree. Also, the scratches I am speaking of are not caused by rollers or dragging across the edge of the deck. They are "cinch marks" (which almost look like specs of dirt, but they are scratches) caused by improper and/or uneven tension, which are aggravated by high speeds and platters that require human backtension on breakdown (which can never be even).

Unfortunately, most people think I am overreacting on this issue, as these marks will generally go unseen at *typical* theaters that do not run cleaners with FilmGuard, because even with daily cleaning with dry media or PTRs, the film WILL have projected dirt on it and the cinch marks tend to get hidden in the dirt. The brighter the screen illumination, the more obvious this becomes too. Unfortunately most theaters cannot even hit 16 footlamberts of light on the screen, further hiding the cinch scratches. But it IS there.

As far as breakdown inspection...what??? If the theater is ran properly and the films are fully hand inspected on buildup, there should be no reason to even consider doing this.

Be forewarned, many platter rollers are designed to NOT have a lubricant added. If you are doing so, you could be hurting the performance of the equipment.

Posted by Alan Plester (Member # 852) on 08-05-2002, 10:23 AM:

westar/century and the built like a tank mechs of B T H

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 08-05-2002, 10:36 AM:

If speed of lacing is a criteria for a good projector, I'd like to nominate the Kalee 11. I worked with a guy who could lace up between the cue dots !

Did someone really nominate the DP75 as a favorite ? Does this lead to a debate on drug use in the booth ?!

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 08-05-2002, 04:33 PM:

No one (so far) has not mention the Ross GC3 or Fedi Solo or Friesecke & Hoepfner 35/70mm Projector

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 08-06-2002, 11:46 PM:

Ben -

You are correct - nobody HAS mentioned the Ross GC3. You must have misread the topic of this forum - it's "favorite projector and booth". By definition the forum would have to exclude the word "Ross" !

How's Odius ?

Peter

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-07-2002, 08:41 AM:

what is a Friesecke & Hoepfner 35/70mm Projector never heard of that one

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-07-2002, 09:43 AM:

I sold the Italian Fedi projectors which came out of the Jacey, Leicester Square, to a cinema in Africa.

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 08-07-2002, 03:49 PM:

[quote: You are correct - nobody HAS mentioned the Ross GC3. You must have misread the topic of this forum - it's "favorite projector and booth".By definition the forum would have to exclude the word "Ross" !

How's Odius? [/quote

Peter,
Can you belive that there are people out there, who likes the Ross projectors, but that's not me!

Odius is fine

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 08-07-2002, 03:53 PM:

The Friesecke & Hoepfner 35/70mm Projector is a German make, as a pair (I belive)one would be left handed mech and the one I looked at had a clear perspex door, will see if I still have some photos of them.

Posted by Les Brock (Member # 1041) on 08-10-2002, 04:16 PM:

Favourite Projector Phillps FP7's that were in the Granada Harrow.

Favourite Booth. Odeon Leicester Square. Also Nigel makes a mean cup of tea !!!!

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-10-2002, 06:29 PM:

I will try and submit a picture of the Philips FP7s.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-11-2002, 03:05 AM:

Philips FP7 projectors. Granada, Rugby 1960. Picture kindly supplied by Harry Rigby.

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 08-11-2002, 06:36 AM:

Projector: Century (also like Simplex)
Lamphouse: Christie
Platter: Potts

I can also stand the all hated ORC big butt orange 5-deck platter that I learned on and I can't stand any Christie. I think it just makes a big difference on what equiptment you were taught on.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-11-2002, 10:47 AM:

Were Magnarcs also produced in other countries or all USA origin?

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 08-11-2002, 11:41 AM:

My favouire projector is the Westrex Westar 2001. Just goes on and on and on and on! Of all the booths I've worked, screen 1 in the Cameo, Edinburgh will always be the one that's 'home' for me. I worked there for five years, had a lot of fun and made a lot of good friends, many of which are still friends now.

I think magnarcs were made in Glasgow, Scotland.

Fedi Solo? Are you guys serious? I have the misfortune to service what I believe to be the last remaining Fedi still running in the UK, and what a clunker it is!

Lancaster got rid of theirs yonks ago, as did Edinburgh Filmhouse, replacing them with DP70's.

Never actually used a DP75. Only worked on them. They seem to be pretty well made to me, but those little plastic things that serve as pas rollers! Dreadful if like me you've got sizeable hands.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-11-2002, 03:31 PM:

quote:
Were Magnarcs also produced in other countries or all USA origin?

They were also made in Glasgow, by Kelvin Somebody else and Bottomley, not certain of the third name, I should be, I've seen it often enough. Later became part of Smiths Industries. Also part of the same setup as Kelvin Hughes who make radar, and other marine navigation equipment.

Most of the ones over here were made in Glasgow, but you do find the odd American one, as well. They look very similar.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-11-2002, 03:42 PM:

quote:
Fedi Solo? Are you guys serious? I have the misfortune to service what I believe to be the last remaining Fedi still running in the UK, and what a clunker it is!

Where is that? It's somewhere in Cumbria, isn't it? I'm sure we saw it on our CTA visit, but I can't remember where.

The Only other Fedi I've ever seen is at Bletchley Park, quite different, it's an automated thing with two huge spools on the base.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-11-2002, 05:00 PM:

quote:
The bottom line was we had to run each trailer INDIVIDUALLY with a changeover in between each one. We also ran a cartoon before the feature and had to operate a manual light board. We had to be very fast and when we had to run a 30 second teaser, it HAD to be the first trailer shown. We did also frequently run 60 second reels. Your scenario is nothing new to me.

Brad, I don't think anyone will be able to beat 60 second reels, but some of the reels of 'The Jazz Singer' were very short, not much more than five minutes I think. The sections with sycronised sound were on separate reels to those with just music.

This film was on nitrate, of course, so it could not be kept in the projection room, at least not in England, I assume American regulations also required film not actually on a projector to be in a separate rewind room or film vault. After a changeover the old reel would have to be taken out to the rewind room, the next reel brought in, checked, the gate cleaned, the fim laced up, the carbons changed, the needle changed, the disk changed or turned over, the needle placed at the start mark on the disk, the machine inched down to the correct point for the changeover. All in about five minutes for some reels.

It might be fun to try it just once, but I wouldn't want to do it very often. One of my lecturers when I was at college had been a projectionist as a young man in those days, and had run sound on disk, but I didn't think to ask him how many operators they had to do it.

I don't suppose there is anybody here who is old enough to remember those days, is there? Dr. Zhivago is now just about half as old as the Jazz Singer, it's amasinng how much things changed between the two.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 08-11-2002, 05:09 PM:

Yup, Alhambra Penrith is still running a 35/70 Fedi XT. Playhouse Perth was running a pair of them with RCA Photophone sound system until 3 years back.

The one with the huge spools underneath is the Solo, or 'Monster' as it was known, much beloved of ABC/Cannon/MGM whateveryouwannacallthem, as it reduced staffing needs, supposedly. In reality it just chewed up film in my experience. I think the Bletchley set up is the only remaining such beast.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-11-2002, 08:46 PM:

Stephen, that would indeed be a BUSY shift! I wonder, does anyone know if back in the early days of sound (Jazz Singer) if there was 2 operators on duty?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-11-2002, 08:54 PM:

We had many of the phillips FPSuper7 machines over here
The Magnarc like century was built in many places in the world but none as well as the originator. Wven strong didn't build it as well

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-12-2002, 12:52 AM:

quote:
Stephen, that would indeed be a BUSY shift! I wonder, does anyone know if back in the early days of sound (Jazz Singer) if there was 2 operators on duty?

I would guess a lot more than two; well after sound on disk days A Chief, two operators and a rewind boy was quite normal. At least one more than this would seem propable if disks were being used, but I don't know for sure.

In many places, it was a requirement of the regulations to have at least two operators if nitrate was being run.

Some photographs I have seen of a large cinema, probably from the early '60s show at least three operators, all wearing white lab coats, I know one old chief who still wears one today. Apart from film projectors, most large cinemas had at least two follow spots, and quite often slide lantens and Brenographs as well. All this stuff needed operators to run it. Into the '60s Cinerama needed four or five operators, Bradford now does it with one.

Even today, two operators are often used for a complex show, e.g. where numerous clips are being shown during an on-stage interview, using several different gauges and formats of film, or where very old, shrunken, warped film is being used, which needs careful watching, and a projector cannot be left for even a moment while it is running.

Sound on disk was new technology in its day. New technology in its early days may well need extra staff to look after it. I have seen DLP twice, each time there were several people gathered around the projector.

In some ways things have changed greatly, but in others, are they really that different? Most projectionists no longer operate follow spots and Brenographs, but they now have to cope with automation systems, platters, digital sound systems, and even digital projectors, which the old ones did not. I would have absolutely no idea how to set up a platter (anybody in the London area care to show me?)

There may have been four operators to a single screen, but if that screen had four thousand seats, and most shows were sold out, that is only one operator to each thousand tickets sold. If one operator now runs ten screens, the biggest of which only seats a few hundred, and many of which are far from sold out, then the ratio of ticket sales to staff employed isn't so different to what it was.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-12-2002, 06:26 AM:

quote:
Stephen, that would indeed be a BUSY shift! I wonder, does anyone know if back in the early days of sound (Jazz Singer) if there was 2 operators on duty?

There's a picture somewhere, Cinema Technology ? of two operators at the Plaza, London West End in 1929, one operator is threading, and the other one is setting up the disc. I would think that it was extremely likely that there was a third operator looking after the other running projector.

Up until 1960 there was always at least two operators running a show.
Most of the large cinemas had three on each shift. After this period single manning was slowly introduced. ABC Cinemas were one of the first in the UK to install an emergency projector shutdown device named A.C.O.P!

Sound-on-Disc days must have been a grind. I've run 2 projector 3D, but that wasn't too bad with 5,000' spools. To name three, the Odeon, Marble Arch. Davis, Croydon. Warner, Leicester Square - all had four projectors and changeovers for 3D. And the Warner ran 3D "House Of Wax" with stereo sound on seperate interlocked soundheads.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-12-2002, 07:48 AM:

quote:
In many places, it was a requirement of the regulations to have at least two operators if nitrate was being run.

Still is... or at least, it still was in 1992, which was when I last projected a nitrate print to a paying audience.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-12-2002, 08:13 AM:

I once saw an old advertisment from a company supporting the sound on film side. One advantage they claimed for their system was that [unlike disk] it did not require extra staff. I interpret this as meaning that extra staff were required to handle disks, but that no extra staff were required to look after the amplifier etc. which would be needed for either system. However, if you had a sound person anyway, I suspect he would look after the amplifier, rather than one of the projectionists. Based on this, my guess would be 2 operators, one for each machine, one sound operator, who would fetch each disk as required, and who probably set it up on the start mark, changed the needles and monitored and adjusted the sound as well, one rewind boy, who as well as rewinding would bring each reel in from the rewind room as required, and take it out when finished with, and one chief to oversee all the others, but, at least in smaller theatres, the chief may have doubled as one of the operators, so four or five in total.

This is only a guess, anyone know for sure?

Can you imagine running a twenty screen multiplex with sound on disk? Interlocking could be rather interesting, how about a turntable with several pickup arms, each playing at a different place on the disk at the same time!

Come to think of it, how do you do interlocking with DTS? do you need a second set of disks?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-12-2002, 10:01 AM:

Yes, you would need a second set of disks to do an interlock between two DTS houses if you wanted both to play in digital. You could burn this yourself (it's just an ISO9660 data CD) or salvage a set from another print of the same film playing in another (non-DTS) auditorium. Even easier would be just to include only one DTS house in the interlock.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-12-2002, 05:50 PM:

Gordon wrote,

Morganite made a lamphouse called the autoarc that used a set of rollers to advance the copper coated carbons through the jaws and supported longer carbons. It also autostruck and used a thermostat styled position sensor like the mighty90/futuraII
I always wanted to get a pair of those if any are kicking around cheap

Les Brock wrote,

Favourite Booth. Odeon Leicester Square. Also Nigel makes a mean cup of tea !!!!

Here is the Odeon, Leicester Square in the days of the Victoria Xs and
Elidophor television projector. The Auto-Arcs having been converted to xenon. One of the Victoria X 35/70mm machines has been installed in the projection room of the Projected Picture Trust's Enigma cinema at Bletchley Park.
www.ppttrust.org

Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 08-12-2002, 07:54 PM:

My favorite booth (other than our home theater booth) is the only one in which I worked regularly, so I have no practical comparison. The Colonial Theater in Lebanon, Pa. It was equipped with Simplex E-7's and Simplex optical soundheads. There were mag heads (and the multichannel amp) but I can't remember the manufacturer. The booth was still equipped for dual-projection 3-D as well.

This was what it looked like the last time I saw it, about four years ago. Talk about heartbroken. The owners hadn't repaired a hole in the roof, and in the years since I worked there in the early 1980's, this is the result.

The theater was demolished in 2000. Actually, the city finished what nature and neglect had begun.

[ 05-17-2006, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Hillary Charles ]

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 08-12-2002, 11:15 PM:

what a sad discusting picture

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 08-13-2002, 12:10 AM:

Mr Tonks,
did you work at the Odeon Marble Arch in the early 80s? Seeing "Return of the Jedi" in that theater on the first weekend (in the summer of 1983?) was one of the greatest movie-going experiences I ever had. In spite of the Ewoks. Most likely 70mm, even though at that time I wasn`t aware of the technical background I recall very clearly that the sound was by far the best I had ever heard in a cinema until that time. And the screen seemed enormously big. How big was it? I haven`t been to London in over ten years, somebody told me that unfortunately, the auditorium was shoeboxed in the 90s.
Michael

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-13-2002, 02:47 AM:

Michael,

I never worked at the Odeon, Marble Arch, so I can’t help you as to the size of the deep curved D 150 screen, which was later removed for the normal slightly curved type. Yes, unfortunately it is now carved into 5 screens.

I did work in the West End as chief projectionist at the Carlton Theatre, Haymarket 1968 – 1972. After which I did a freelance spell for 9 months at the Columbia, Shaftsbury Avenue, Philips DP70 projectors.

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 08-13-2002, 04:27 AM:

Fedi's installed in the University of Kent in Cantebury, two with BB conversions and changeovers. They also have two spare machines (ex Mr Youngs Preview Rooms screen 2) for spares..

Leo - surely you could list York as a contender for favorite booth ? Air conditioned, carpet, CCTV view of the pretty young things on the floor plus a historic river view !

My favorite is the Bridgeway Auckland NZ - sits under the harbour bridge, booth opens up to the top of the canopy - perfect for a post-changeover bottle of the managers' home brew, watching the boats sail by and the sun set..

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-13-2002, 04:51 AM:

Peter - yes, the air conditioning at York was great, though for overall working environment I'd have to vote for Exeter out of the City Screen booths. There was enough space to work comfortably, even if you had lots of prints in there, but having everything in one booth made it possible to get to either screen very quickly, which was a real help for tight turnarounds. One of those split units would have made it perfect! The only drawback with York was having to take a made-up print on a collar to screen 3, along a corridor crammed with queueing customers, turn the show round and get back again in time to catch screen 1 three minutes later.

I think my favourite booth would have to be MOMI as was (now NFT3), for the sheer range of equipment in there, the variety of films we got to show and the general atmosphere at the South Bank before BFI political correctness made it all go nasty. Its only quirk was that (in those days), there was no motorised masking - you had to go down and adjust it with a pulley. As there were never any ads or trailers with NFT shows, this didn't really matter though.

Least favourite booth - the one behind a lecture theatre at Exeter University out of which the film society operated. It was about the size of two lavatory cubicles and contained two GK-37s, rectifiers, sound rack and a Westrex tower. The temperature would easily hit 35 degrees in there during a show (the lamphouses were ventilated, but the projectionist wasn't). Enough said.

Posted by Jamie Sanson (Member # 1161) on 08-13-2002, 05:37 AM:

HI Frank . MY list is cinemecannica Vic 9 mount on a stand ,5 mount on a console , GB Kaylee 21 all time favourite

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-13-2002, 05:39 AM:

Leo, when were you at MOMI? I have just looked at your photo, and I think I remember seeing you there.

I like NFT1, and will be sorry when it goes, I haven't heard anything about the new BFI centre recently, and there was certainly no sign of any construction taking place the last time I walked past the site. NFT2 is another matter, Just one asile down one side makes it difficult to get in and out, the front rows are too close to the screen, the screen is also too high from those rows, if you are sitting at the back, the ceiling is very low, due to the projection box jutting out into the auditorium, giving it a rather claustrophobic feel. The auditorium is rather long and narrow, but at least that is useful for showing 3D.

Then there is the projection box, because of way it's positiond inside the auditorium, the throw is short, it's not too bad with the 35mm machines, being in the centre, but with that platform on the right with the video gear etc, the 16mm machines have to be way off axis, it's equal to having six machines in that short a throw, the keystoning from the left-hand one, both vertical and horizontal is terrible, this machine is also very close to the left wall of the box, which, as it's a left-handed machine, must make access to it rather difficult. When I visited the box I couldn't believe the crazy angle this machine is at. Sadly most of the material I see at the NFT is in 2, and in the past a lot of it was on 16mm, today it's more likely to be on video.

What are the windows high up on the right-hand wall of the auditorium?

MOMI (now NFT3) is not bad, 70mm in there looked good, only having one 16mm and one sound follower did limit it somewhat, compared to the other two. It was the only one of the three to later have 1" C format installed. I'm not sure if it's still there, but I did see it used quite a few times.

Before MOMI closed there was a still from 'The Smallest Show on Earth' on the windows of the projection box. The acient projectos shown, I think they were Kalee 8s or 11s, or something similar, were probably about 35 years old when the film was made, younger than the DP70s which were then in use in MOMI.

I saw the Kalee 20s when they were still in place, but out of use, for the old NFT3, complete with mechanical interlock (metal bar) for 3D, they later went to Bletchley Park, but I never saw the auditorium, it had been converted to an office then. it must have been very small, how many did it seat?

It's a pity the gold shutters, I can't call them a curtain, in NFT1 are no longer used, they were rather noisy, but they were unique to the place. Whenever you see old photographs on intervies taking place on the stage those shutters are always there, and you know at once where it is.

The loss of the bookshop is also to be regretted. The NFT is not what it was, I am renewing my membersip this year, but this may be the last time, I am thinking about moving to North Yorkshire, in the not too distant future.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-13-2002, 07:15 AM:

My time at MOMI was 91-92. The windows in NFT2 are the commentary box. When a foreign-language film is shown without subtitles, an interpreter sits in there hearing the soundtrack through headphones. [S]he then speaks a translation into a microphone which is played through headphones which are stored between the arm rests of each seat when not in use.

It was a pain in the bum having those 'EC' shows - we had to play pink noise and test every single pair to check that they worked. Thankfully I never had to do that for all 552 seats in NFT1...

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 08-13-2002, 10:41 AM:

Wow there are 3 known Fedi's in use in the UK! Are these the 35/70 XT Peter?

The Alhambra Penrith has a mech or three for spares, and there's also stacks of Fedi stuff backstage in Perth. They were taken out a couple of years back but nobody could be bothered shifting the spares collection. The pedestals alone need about 4 bodies to move.

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 08-13-2002, 01:08 PM:

Pete N -

HI - the Mr Young machines were 35mm only, and whilst I remember the Cantebury machines with disused Penthouses I can't remember if there were any 70mm bits on them. Too busy mopping up the oil and trying to figure out the 10000 motor wires ! Picture is steady and they run quietly. Was quite an install - virtually untouched since installation from new in the 1960s. Billy Bell converted them from three to two terminal lamps about 10 years ago, and we put in a "state of the art" CP50 three years ago - prior to that everything was original, down to the cool RCA motorised faders and sound system.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 08-13-2002, 02:21 PM:

The ones at Perth were quite something. Full 35/70mm RCA Photophone mag set-up. Every little thing was still there, even the engineers log books going back as far as 1948. Both at Perth had Xenon Magnarcs on, the original Fedi lamps and the later fitted Strong Jetarcs are recumbant in what was once a film store room. The Perth Fedi's and the Penrith one are anything but quiet! They tend to leak oil if you don't get the back sealed up right (I Find blue hylomar is excellent), and yes the wiring is a little on the interesting side! It's beatifully loomed in the machines but not the simplest of systems.

Until it's refurbishment the Playhouse, Perth was still using the RAC speakers and crossovers. I a moment of genius/foolishness we ran the amp outputs from the Dolby rack into the crossovers in the RCA racks. Didn't sound too bad really.

When the refurb was complete, the chief was kind enough to give me the RCA stage microhpone, which is a huge ribbon affair. Never wired it up to see if it works, it sits doing sterling service propping up some manuals.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 09-21-2005, 11:42 AM:

It has been 1134 days since the last post.

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 09-21-2005, 11:42 AM:

quote:
Stephen, that would indeed be a BUSY shift! I wonder, does anyone know if back in the early days of sound (Jazz Singer) if there was 2 operators on duty?

.
When the Jazz Singer played at the Avon theatre in Utica, NY they had a 3 man booth.
Bob

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-21-2005, 12:09 PM:

That's interesting Robert; those three men must have been kept pretty busy.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-21-2005, 01:23 PM:

probably was so due to the firecode requirements in running nitrate. And some of those booths had more than two machines.

I saw an old picture of a theatre's booth (silent era) in NY that had 5 machines, film cabinets in another room (once again due to nitrate and fire safety), sand buckets by each machine, lounge chairs and looking like a living room.

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 09-21-2005, 02:43 PM:

Here are my favourites (out of what I've worked with):

Century (CC) projectors and Xebex (Hi-Beam and Supersol) lamphouses.

I don't like any of the platters I've worked with.

My second choice for projector would be the Cinemeccanica V8.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 09-21-2005, 02:45 PM:

In Los Angeles during that time. As per the contracts between the theatre chain and the union. You had to have two operators per shift if the theatre seated 1000 and over people. Over the years under performing theatres that the seating was very close to the 1000 seat cap, would remove so many seats to bring them under 1000. The first run & Roadshow theatres during the 30's thru the early 60's always were two man booths.

My favorite booths were the Warner Beverly Hills Theatre. It had alot of room and was equipped with 2 DP-70s and 2 XL's. The Hollywood Pacific Theatre (former Warner Hollywood). It was converted to a tri-plex. Main house 2 Century JJ and a AW-3, the twin upstairs had a Century JJ and the other a XL both with AW-3s. Other great and fun booths were the Cinerama Dome and the main Chinese booth and the Egyptian Theatre with the D-150 screen, before the new convertion.

[ 09-22-2005, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Bill Gabel ]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-22-2005, 12:38 AM:

Have to agree - CINE V8's were the best machines that I've ever played with (and most tekkies hated that machine with a passion..).

Most impressie booth that I've ever seen was the Centre Theatre in SLC. Booth was spacious - about 35 ft long and a good 15 ft wide. One half was the ususal setup - Bauer U2's with STRONG Futura 2's, burning 13.6mm positives. Sound was the Dolby CP-65 setup for the 6ch mag when running 70mm. Film came upstairs via the floorstaff personnel.

Later on, they added a third machine to the left of the Bauers to run film from platter since the carbon arc rod prices were getting sky high, the demand for 70mm really dropped, and the union was kicked out for "booth clown" operations towards the end of the life of this theatre.

The other side of the booth was an actual living room. Big picture window with fancy curtains and woodgrain valance across the top. Overstuffed sofas with end tables and side chairs. Coffee table in the middle the room. Stove, double sink and fridge to the oppositie side of the room, and the restroom to the side (even with SHOWER!!), and a console TV set off in the corner. Padded carpet covered this part of the room, with linoleum on the floor where kitchen part of this room was.

The projectionists definitely lived up there (union booth) since they had to stay up there for the entire day.

-Monte

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-22-2005, 01:49 AM:

Oh don't tease us Andrew. What platters HAVE you worked with that you hated? That can be more educational than knowing the ones you liked! [Smile]

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 09-22-2005, 12:22 PM:

Brad, I've only worked with the CFS and Strong Alpha platters that have the selector switch.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-22-2005, 12:55 PM:

Andrew, you have the A-3 Alpha platters then. They're not that bad if you let them work for you and take care of them. Granted, I love the AW3R's and miss them dearly, but confined with all of these STRONG A-3's and AP-3 platters now and have to make the best of it.

In fact, I haven't had a problem for quite a long time with any of these STRONG platters.

Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 09-22-2005, 01:51 PM:

I have the same Strong platters. I change out the brain switches before they start to go (Once a year for the number of shows we run) and put rubber bands around the outside posts on the brain so the film can't jump a post and cause a wrap. Remember to change out the rubber bands regularly before they break.

Once I started doing both of those things, I haven't had any problems with the Strong Platters.

Platters I've worked with in order of preference:

Christie AW3 with removable brains
Strong ALPHA platter
Christie AW3 without removable brains
SPECO LP 270

these all sucked:
ORC
Super Platter
Nuemade

[ 09-22-2005, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Matt Fields ]

Posted by Don Furr (Member # 1469) on 09-22-2005, 02:57 PM:

Monte....I'm with you on the CINE V8's/V16's. When we were putting together twins and triplexes, I found a boat-load of V8's. I NEVER had a problem with those projectors. I've worked with every platter built up through the straight AW-3's (my favorite) but I've got to say most of our stuff were Balco's. Several of my 3 deckers had mods installed by Bill Ship of Eastern Federal that worked perfectly as a brain wrap fail safe. It was simply rollers that slid on a rail with a micro switch at the bottom. Any extra pressure, down with the roller, down with the switch and the automation would shut the whole damn thing down. Saved a lot of brain wraps!!

Posted by Thomas Dieter (Member # 2507) on 09-23-2005, 01:40 AM:

I have to say from the platters that I've worked with CFS Super Platters, Potts Alpha Platters, and Christie AW3R Platters, I would say that the Chrisites are the best so far. I'd like to work with the MiT Platter that resembles the AW3. Anything to say about these?

For projection units, I've worked with Century SA, Cinnemacanica V4, Simplex XL, Baylntine Pro35, Cennicita I will say I really like the Century's the best. Very Clean Machines, and quite. Never really had a problem with shedding or oil leaks.

When it comes to the lamphouse, i've worked with 4. The ORC Stand Along, the CFS Lamphouse in the Reviews, Strong Lume XL, and the New Strong Stand Alone. I can't remember the exact name of the Strong Lamp House, but I like them the best.

Posted by Andy Summers (Member # 3207) on 09-25-2005, 08:02 AM:

The booth was a twin projection room, when entering the room there’s just a few steps to walk up, and placed to the left and right is screen 5 and 6 these where the main larger screens at UCI Tower Park, and screen with screens 1and 2, 3and 4, 7and 8, and lastly 9and 10 being the smallest screens each looking similar except one is on the right and the other is on the left, all had Dolby A and SR, the amplification, I can’t remember the name, the loudspeakers where “EV” “Christie cake plates.”

Cinemeccanica Vic “V” was my first projector I worked on and I like the flexibility with it’s ease of use, she was a welcoming site every time I saw her, though there was no automatic lens rotating mechanism, I didn’t mind switching from flat lens from advertisements for some scope trailers and back to flat and then for some main features in scope 2.35:1, it was all about entreating the public….

Oh and setting it to Dolby SR type with the fader set to “7” cool…..

The seating was sub standard and was not as good as the “EMPIRE” in London, including the sound and laser show, Tower Park was part of the fleet, but the “EMPIRE” was the flagship and still is to this day……….

Posted by Dan Harris (Member # 1759) on 09-25-2005, 11:42 AM:

Platter wise, I've worked with the Christie AW3R, Cinemeccanica CNR3-35N and Philips-Kinoton ST200. Neither the Philips or Cinemeccanica come anywhere near the AW3R in terms of sheer reliability and ease of use. I always found the Cinemeccanica to be flimsily built and awkward to calibrate.

Projector wise, I've worked with Philips-Kinoton FP20's and 30's, and Cinemeccanica Vic 4's, 5's, 8's and 9's. I still prefer the Vic 8 over all of them, even though I've been working with 5's for the last five years. I do have to say that I've never had any major problems with any of our Vic 5's or Cinemeccanica console and lamphouses. Five of them are now 11 years old.

As for booth design, the best I worked in was a 13-plex, straight "corridor booth", 8 machines on one side, 5 on the other with benches, desk and all staff facilities right in the middle. My current booth is pretty similar, an 8-plex with four machines on each side and benches, desks and automation PC in the middle, but it loses marks as one machine is 550mm off floor level, and two others are 300mm off floor level.

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 09-30-2005, 01:49 PM:

Centuries are my favorite, by far. I love the C for how quiet and steady it runs. The SA gates are a snap to clean, too. I've come to prefer the R3 soundheads for their ease of threading, with fewer notched-rollers than the R5. But either sets of machines provide for simple, straight-line threading when mated.

I think it's a lot easier to learn threading fundamentals on XL's, though. You have a lot more gate to align with during framing, and loop-sizing fundamentals are more upfront with the Simplex heads.

Give somebody a Norelco AAII head and that'll teach them how to turn over a motor. [Smile]

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 05-05-2006, 02:33 PM:

Well, I have worked with the Christie AW3R and the Strong Platters and would have to say that the Christie AW3R's are my favorite. I would, one day, like to try out the Kinoton Platters, Big Sky Industries Platters and the Cinemeccanica's as well. Out of the two I have used, the Christie Projector and Simplex 35 & Milleniums, I happen to like the Simplex 35. Of course, again, I would be willing to try out the Kinoton Projectors & Cinemeccanica's as well. So far, I've heard really good things about the Kinoton Projectors. [Big Grin]

Posted by Chris Wootten (Member # 283) on 05-14-2006, 06:05 AM:

I personally prefer the Bauer U3 and U4, but I do have a soft spot for the Cinemecannica KLANKERS! [beer]

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 05-14-2006, 02:22 PM:

Without a doubt the best non rewind has to be the Kinoton ST200. VERY reliable, easy to maintain.... as in virtually no maintainance. Unique feature is that the non rewind switches off when the projector stops so film cannot wrap around module when projector is not running. Plates cannot speed up out of control. It does have more control gear than other non rewinds but it's design was and still is a classic.

Best projector would be the Vic 8 with the Vic 5 close. Robust and easily adapted to the needs of today. Consumable parts, sprokets and runners etc, last for ever which makes it a very economical projector to run. I'm no fan of the over complicated electronics of the Kinoton series of projectors.

Automation would be Component Engineerings TA10. Basically because it is inexpensive, reliable and simple to use..... and excellent after sales service which you cannot place a value on.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-15-2006, 01:46 AM:

quote: Matt Fields
these all sucked:
ORC

Can't say that I have a favorite. Over the years, Brenkert, Simplex E7 & XL and Century... even the Wenzel Ace have been very good to me. I've seen very good performance from Motiographs, even recently. I wouldn't go out of my way to put a chain around a Pro35, even if it IS heavy enough to be re-purposed as a boat anchor for a medium-sized yacht (and it is). Some of you speak highly of models I haven't had the opportunity to try.

But the comment about ORC platters sucking... that was probably the ONLY thing they made that really did work well, at least for me. I got 25 years out of 3 sets of their platters, before they just flat wore out. They were the last part of my original equipment package that really needed to be replaced. The only parts I ever had to put into them were some motor brushes, a Variac in the makeup table and a few bearings. NONE of the parts I had to replace were proprietary, a huge plus, as far as I'm concerned.

Once I put larger diodes in, the ORC xenon power supplies I used to use never failed. Before then however, I could count on them to conk out at least once in a season... usually on a Saturday night, with a good turnout, probably when starting the second show. I've moved on to Strong switchers now, but keep one of the old ORCs on-hand as a second-backup.

It's too bad that Cinemeccanica didn't adapt the Sword/Double-Mut concept to their tower. Greg Mueller built one that's probably the best "powered-reel" arrangement I've seen that wasn't made by Eprad.... but that's another thread, I guess.

I do like the Big Sky lamphouses (with glass reflector & optional heat filter)... even over the Ultra 80 at 7kW. They replaced my old X-60s here. Absolute flamethrowers, uniform coverage, excellent cooling design. Haven't worked around the SLC line. The one install around here that might compare to my setup isn't maintained well, and isn't putting out any more light than an old C-40(?) box.

For their intended purpose, I agree with earlier comments about the TA-10/FM-35... a good replacement option for the old Co-Operators. They also adapted well to the slight mods I made to them, including the computer interface I use to run the entire 3-screen program at my drive-in.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-15-2006, 03:03 AM:

This is what a booth is...and my old favorite.. Simplex XL . SH-1000 soundheads, Peerless Magnarcs, magnetic sound, All Simplex sound - both mono and stereo.. Furnished by National Theatre Supply..

..all long gone now...

-Monte

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-15-2006, 05:02 AM:

I worked a booth with that exact setup, Monte. You're right, it was all pro. My setup also included mag sound. It was the only place where, at the same time, I had a mag print and the equipment to play it... "Capricorn One".

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-16-2006, 03:02 AM:

Yea..ran "King Kong (1976)", "Fantasia" "Tora,Tora, Tora", "the Bible" and a few others in Magnetic stereo.. - and each time had RCA techs come up and tune in the mag for these performances...

-monte

Posted by Gilbert Travin (Member # 2138) on 05-16-2006, 06:38 AM:

Hi Monte !

When I was student, I had worked with exactly the same equipment (Simplex XL + Peerless) as I can see on your photos. It was in 1973-74 at Cinejournal Theater in Lyon. Projectors (installed in 1955) were equipped with magnetic sound heads, but in 1973, films were only optical mono. The power supply for carbon arc lamps (65 A each) was an hyper-compound DC machine (Hertner group).
The theater has been demolished and replaced by .... a store, alas ...

My prefered projectors :
1) Philips DP 70 of course !
2) Simplex XL
3) Victoria VIII

I have no opinion about "modern" machines (as FP 30 ...) because I have never worked with them ! [Big Grin]

Posted by James Robertson (Member # 888) on 05-19-2006, 07:26 AM:

Peerless Magnarcs were manufactured by Kelvin, Bottomley and Baird at Hillington Industrial Estate,Glasgow.

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 05-19-2006, 09:17 AM:

Huh?

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 05-19-2006, 10:29 AM:

Peerless, like Century, Bell & Howell, Ampro and other makes, where licensed for manufacture in other countries.

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 05-20-2006, 05:12 PM:

Oh!

Posted by Chris Unwin (Member # 3792) on 05-21-2006, 05:14 AM:

I didn't see anyone else mention Simplex-XL Projectors. Incredebly reliable machines with a rock solid steady picture and very easy to maintain. Every Drive-in I have worked has had Simplex-XL projectors because they still produce a very steady picture even with a long throw. My favorite booth has got to be the Hollywood Theatre in Vancouver B.C. Canada. Two Simplex XLs' with manual changeover. NO AUTOMATION WHATSOEVER!! Which is a nice change, plus the theatre is a beautiful art deco palace that opened back in 1935. Also has a belcony and still has a working auditorium clock to the left of the screen!! (Very rare!)Also has TWO red velvet curtains (original. from Italy) that are still opened and closed for every show.

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 05-25-2006, 12:39 PM:

I do remember using the Simplex XL Projectors as well. I have to agree with you on those machines. I can't remember which theatre I used them at, but, I do remember using them at one point. Very reliable. [Smile]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-25-2006, 12:44 PM:

The projectors in the picture Monte posted are XLs.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-16-2006, 06:24 PM:

I like the DP-70 and the Century JJ models.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 08-16-2006, 11:33 PM:

quote:
Billy Bell converted them from three to two terminal lamps

Wow now there is a legend. I remember having tea with him in 1994.
Before my trip to London I had never seen a Carbon lamphouse converted to Xenon before, as in Australia its simply not done. The quality of his conversions was first class.

Favorite Booths,
Camden Parkway, London Vic 8 (RIP)
National Film Theatre, Vic 8 South Bank London
Village Cinema City(sc1)Sydney Bauer U3 70mm thx (RIP)
Walker St Cinema Sydney Simplex E7 plus Peerless Magnarcs,
2000ft c/o (RIP)

Favorite projectors
Bauer (one of the first models)They truly purred [Smile]

Never liked the U3 due to oil spray on the lens, frosty vision.
Cinemacannica vic 8
Philips DP 75
Century JJ
IMAX 3D cos its so complicated [Big Grin]

Simplex e7

I've worked in over 50 cinemas over the last 20 years and have managed to avoid Christie [Big Grin]

Although I am now dealing with Super Platters for the first time [uhoh]

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-18-2006, 04:38 AM:

quote: Cameron Glendinning
Favorite Booths,
Camden Parkway, London Vic 8 (RIP)

The Independent Camden Parkway, (ex Gaumont / Odeon) following closure for 3 years, was taken back by Odeon, and is now a five screen multiplex. I remember seeing the Vic 8s running during the former Odeon & Parkway days when a single screen. Also the Cinemation 50 x 30 pin matrix board.

Auditorium information.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-18-2006, 10:52 AM:

Favorite booth: Circle 25 D/I, Lexington, KY (RIP) This is the booth I learned in at age 12. Huge theatre (1,200+ cars), RCA Dyn-Arcs (Ashcraft Super Cinex's) running an 11mm trim, behind Century C's, and RCA 9030s.

Although, my favorite projector/reproducer combo eventually became Century SA's on either SH-1000s or R-3's, the Circle 25 booth was the best ever. It was built for both standard 35mm format service and horizontal VistaVision projection! 4-projector booth... IN A DRIVE-IN!

Favorite all-around lamphouses: XeTron and Super Lumex's.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-18-2006, 11:14 AM:

quote: Tim Reed
Favorite booth: Circle 25 D/I, Lexington, KY (RIP) This is the booth I learned in at age 12. Huge theatre (1,200+ cars), RCA Dyn-Arcs (Ashcraft Super Cinex's) running an 11mm trim, behind Century C's, and RCA 9030s.

I believe in the final years of that drive-in they put in a large capacity reel system.

When I worked the Sky-Vue Drive-in in Winchester it was the first year that they converted to xenon. I learned to opperate the carbon arc projector since it was the back up. I wish they had left the reel spindals on that one because we could have used it to run the intermision trailers. I always hated it when the screen had to go dark between features. They used a eprad large capacity reel unit for the features. In 1990 they converted it to a two screener and added a speco platter system and a periscope mirror unit. The carbon arc system looked way better than the xenon conversion they done in the mid 80's. The xenon they were using 3k I think was just to small for that main screen.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-18-2006, 11:31 AM:

You're absolutely right, Darryl, as usual. [Smile]

You have a good memory, guy. Subsequent to Mid-States taking over the theatres there (and the drive-ins really went downhill quickly after that), they kept the #2 Century head at the Circle 25, and put it on a forward-only Sword system, along with an Eprad soundhead (yeeeuck!) and Kneisley Xenex I 4k lamp.

Except for a BX-100, they installed the same setup across the street at the Family D/I.

After my 1974-75 excursions in the carbon arc days, I came back and ran these "updated" booths in the '78-'79 seasons. Even in that short time span, the theatres were but a shadow of what they were just 3 seasons prior. [Frown]

Re: Sky-Vue... you're right. It was a 3k Kneisley conversion, and I'd tried my best to talk them out of doing that doghouse deal, but that's what Chakeres did in all their drive-ins. I came back to that theatre (I'd operated there in '75-'76 and in '78, I believe) to manage/operate in '89 on the "new" system (before periscope/2nd screen)... I used the carbon machine for cartoons and clocks. Yes, sir! [thumbsup]

Posted by Gunnar Asgeirsson (Member # 3882) on 08-20-2006, 12:02 AM:

Cinemeccanica Vic5 is the best projector in the world... My favourite booth will be in the Cinema here in iceland called "Smárabíó" Everythink is perfect there [Smile]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-20-2006, 05:03 AM:

Gunnar,

I thought Iceland was all converted to Digital or mostly digital....?

Mark

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 08-20-2006, 06:19 AM:

quote: Bernard Tonks
The Independent Camden Parkway, (ex Gaumont / Odeon) following closure for 3 years, was taken back by Odeon, and is now a five screen multiplex.

I worked there in its final year, It was a 1100 seat (from memory) with a 60ft screen and probably the best sound I think I ever heard! personally lined up by Dion at Dolby. The second screen was 110 seat with 2 sets of curtains, in what was formerly a resturant. There was also the remains of a projectionist training school! It was a beautiful theatre. 70mm prints everywhere.

Just curious to know what remains? Was the main carved up into 4? Is the wonderful Art Deco foyer still intact?

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-20-2006, 06:32 AM:

It was also among the first few cinemas in London to install Dolby Digital sound; certainly the first independent to do so.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-20-2006, 02:38 PM:

Now,, since we're talking about favorite machine and booths, I have to deterr this topic a bit to some specifics of certain machines ... and that is the shutters.

Okey, we've seen the three known versions - Barrel shutters, single and the double shutters. Both the barrel and the double shutters uses the dissolving methods, whereas the single just does the cutting.

Granted, is it due to simple mechanics why the barrel shutter (still used in some of the European units, and was dearly used by Motiographs, which were excellent machines for a good number of years) was discontiuned, in as much as the double shutter with the complex transmission could have been the reason for manufacturing, but were any of these shutters better than others, or just was it other factors to use a simple shutter ...

or, you could say, that I'm asking "which was was the best, or was it a "six-of-one", "half-dozen-of-another" sort of thing?

thx-Monte

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-20-2006, 06:36 PM:

The key to minimizing the perception of flicker and to maximize the amount of light throughput is reduce the transition time between open and closed. Furthermore the interruptions must be periodic and equally spaced (you can't have a wide and a narrow blade).

So going with that...the single shutter wins as the superior method. The single shutter is twice as fast as an equivalently sized double shutter. This allows a greater open time and more light. Since the speed of the blade is double that of a double wing, it also has less perceivable flicker.

The double shutter and the barrel shutter are also trying to increase the shutter speed by having the top bottom of the aperture close at the same time. The flaw of the barrel and double shutter is that it inherently creates a brighter center image.

With the typical double shutter like on a Century, one also has the slop factor of each mating gear. As such, the two blades will bounce with respect to each other...this will create a visible flicker on the screen as the middle of the image opens and closes in a different part of the frame. If you have a Century double shutter machine...look at the line that is created by the light in the spot sight box (where the two blades come together). If you have a new set of gears, light-weight shutters and everything is set just right...the line will move a very small amount but violently...this will appear as a rapid flicker on the screen. Now if you have an older set of gears with heavy blades such that the two blades bounce with respect to each other...it will look like a wandering arc on screen.

So given the shutter technologies you listed, the single blade large shutter is the best....the small bow-tie blade is the worst.

Then there are the 3-wingers...while they do not have the light output (half that of an equivalent 2-wing blade), they do have the least flicker and often have the appearance of a sharper image.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-21-2006, 05:31 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
So given the shutter technologies you listed, the single blade large shutter is the best....the small bow-tie blade is the worst.

Then there are the 3-wingers...while they do not have the light output (half that of an equivalent 2-wing blade), they do have the least flicker and often have the appearance of a sharper image.

Thx, Steve for all of this - greatly appreciated for this info and your time.

Then, may I continue with the statements above: We can safely say that the Century large 2-wing shutter (even though it's quite the distance from the aperture) and the Simplex conical shutter (which is much closer to the aperture) are the two best shutter designs for light/flicker efficency.

..and given, the Christie 35 with the bow-tie .. would then, the P35 with the single blade fall into this catagory .. as the worst?

..and the same with 16mm using the 3-wing shutters (or, like the earler Bell & Howells with the single blade shutter that swung around three times while in the third pass is when the shuttle pulls the film down in the trap) - giving sharp images, but with slightly lesser light.

Now, another question has to come out of this: With your factual definitions of the barrel (dissolving) shutters and the limitations of this form of shutter, why, or I should say how does the European models makes the barrel shutter more effective (or do they.?)

thx-Monte

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-21-2006, 09:13 AM:

quote: Bernard Tonks
The Independent Camden Parkway, (ex Gaumont / Odeon) following closure for 3 years, was taken back by Odeon, and is now a five screen multiplex.

quote: Cameron Glendinning
I worked there in its final year, It was a 1100 seat (from memory) with a 60ft screen and probably the best sound I think I ever heard! personally lined up by Dion at Dolby. The second screen was 110 seat with 2 sets of curtains, in what was formerly a resturant. There was also the remains of a projectionist training school! It was a beautiful theatre. 70mm prints everywhere.

Just curious to know what remains? Was the main carved up into 4? Is the wonderful Art Deco foyer still intact?

Can’t really help you with that now. I would think it was likely that the main auditorium was split into 4 screens. I would hope they have left the wonderful Art Deco foyer intact. I also remember the very attractive Art Deco created 2nd screen with two sets of curtains, but was spoilt with the most dreadful sightlines. No doubt Odeon would have corrected this.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 08-21-2006, 09:20 AM:

The Kinoton and Christie with the single blade working at double speed ( pulldown and one flicker per frame ) in theory should be very efficient.
Since the early 1990's ( 1993 ) there have been no barrel shutters on newer models of European projectors. They generally had a lamphouse with a reflector with a vey long F2 focus so the cone of light would pass through efficiently through a barrel shutter. Some portables and one Chinese manufacturer are still producing barrel shutter machines, and possibly one Indian manufacturer if he is still producing an early Bauer projector copy.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-21-2006, 04:42 PM:

Doesn't the Wassman and veronese machines still have a barrel shutter

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 08-21-2006, 05:06 PM:

Touche ce!! [Cool]

I forgot about Elementos ( Wassman ) which promotes Ernemann and Veronese / SAX / Cinemec....but their total production compared to Kinoton - Ernemann - Cinemeccanica - Proyecson is another story [Wink]

Posted by Sverrir D. Thorarinsson (Member # 3372) on 07-16-2007, 06:30 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
I thought Iceland was all converted to Digital or mostly digital....?

Currently, only one cinema here in Iceland is equipped with digital projectors and that's "Kringlubio". It's equipped with both digital and 35mm projectors from Cinemeccanica in all three auditoriums.

Regarding the question of this topic, I have only worked on Vic5 so I'm not able to say what projector I like the most. I've seen the Kinotons and they look interesting mostly because of how quiet they seem to be. I think it was the FP30. On the other hand, I'm happy with the Vic5 because of the simplicity, reliability and how easy it is to get parts for it.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-16-2007, 06:51 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Then there are the 3-wingers...while they do not have the light output (half that of an equivalent 2-wing blade), they do have the least flicker and often have the appearance of a sharper image.

You can get that same "extra sharpness effect" by installing a high speed movement in an X-L. There is very definately much more sharpness than with a regular speed movement. No one here has ever been able to explain why this is.....

Mark

quote: Gordon McLeod
Doesn't the Wassman and veronese machines still have a barrel shutter

Yea, like those are being installed in world wide locations [Roll Eyes]

.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-16-2007, 09:38 PM:

It should look sharper because the film has come to a more complete stop in the gate before the shutter opens...Kinoton has increased the speed of their electronic intermittent 4-5 times over their standard electronic intermittent and claim that they too now see more resolution.

Steve

Posted by David Graham Rose (Member # 1450) on 07-17-2007, 01:57 PM:

Quote Bernard Tonks;

Can’t really help you with that now. I would think it was likely that the main auditorium was split into 4 screens. I would hope they have left the wonderful Art Deco foyer intact. I also remember the very attractive Art Deco created 2nd screen with two sets of curtains, but was spoilt with the most dreadful sightlines. No doubt Odeon would have corrected this.

Greetings All

Ref Odeon Camden Town, 14 Parkway NW1 7AA

The "man" Parkway cinema was converted as Bernard rightly says into 4 auditoria. A drop wall was placed in the front of the auditorium creatind a rather wide theatre (10 rear surrounds; 3 each side). A new projection room was built about half way down the original auditorium. The rear section was split ino 3 theatres side by side. There were two 90-odd seat theatres on the outer edges, and a 240- ish seat cinema in the middle. The original projection suite served the rear three theatre.

The former restaurant/ screen 2 was converted into Odeon 5, with it's separate projection suite.

Screens 1, 3 and 5 has tableaux curtains whilst screens 2 & 4 had festoons. All screens were equipped with Dolby Dig CP500's. Auds 2-5 had the flimsy Victoria 5, and Odeon 1 had a Vicoria 8.

The picture quality in Odeon 1 was nothing to write home about on account of the installation company putting in dodgy second hand equipment, and vastly underpowering the light in Odeon 1. (1997- SuperZenith 450L? what's going on?)

The General Manager who reopened this theatre was George Rait (now at Odeon Kensington) assisted by Michael Armstrong, Sarah Donnelly and Paul Clements. The projectionists were Stephen Larn (Chief), Simon Munday (Senior) and Gordon Elliott (Senior).

From Cambridge,

Goodnight

David

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 07-18-2007, 09:34 AM:

Thankyou David

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-18-2007, 10:08 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
It should look sharper because the film has come to a more complete stop in the gate before the shutter opens...Kinoton has increased the speed of their electronic intermittent 4-5 times over their standard electronic intermittent and claim that they too now see more resolution.

I agree thats got to be what it is. I knew I wasn't seeing an illusion nor were my customers although no one could really explain it. The difference is easiest to see when running white titles on a black background. The titles become very sharp with the HS movement.

Mark

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-19-2007, 03:39 AM:

What would it take to convert a standard XL to a hi-speed XL outside of using the variable blade shutter?

I service a DrIn that has a PR-1014 sitting on a "4-star" soundhead, hanging out in front of a CFS-4500 console. Granted with the light beam being bent 90 degrees as it is from reflecting off that angled mirror before heading out through the machine creating some loss of light, the XL has the variable blade shutter (opened all the way) with a standard INT assembly.

Would a Hi-Speed INT assembly do this screen justice, or just call it as it is with the present setup of the shutter being opened all the way?

thx for the help on this one. - Monte

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-19-2007, 10:33 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Would a Hi-Speed INT assembly do this screen justice, or just call it as it is with the present setup of the shutter being opened all the way?

I always got at least 25% more light on the screen but optics also introduce a limiting factor... some of the D.I.'s that I put them into had pictures very close to indoor light levels when running a HS movement. The problem is finding even just one today. Wolk used to have a bunch of them but I don't know if they still do or not. Another route that also works... the Technilight Kit at about 2500.00 plus labor, thats double but stop to consider that a good HS movment will run you a grand and if you pile it up its usually NOT repairable. All the ones I installed are still running just fine, over 10 years now. Estar made the use of them possible again... they tended to shred acetate especially if its dried out.

Mark

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-19-2007, 10:44 AM:

I have a copule of used (?) high speed movements.

BUT:

I would get a lamphouse that has an appropriate amount of light and new good lenses first before I would introduce a new level of complexity to this theatre. (I know they can afford it.....how many decades have they been in business?) Louis

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-19-2007, 01:18 PM:

Thx for the help and advice on the HS topic that I presented. If such upgrades are to be in order for a HS unit to be totally effective as what Mark and Louis has mentioned, then what is present will have to remain as such being the cost factor would outweigh the 6 month seasonal run and the 3 days/week of being open - let alone some other expense issues that this 54yr old Dr-In is experiencing..

Lenses are of the older variety - unknown for the FLAT and backup for the scope but B&H Attachment I for the front.

thx again - Monte

Posted by Bill Ryan (Member # 2814) on 05-31-2008, 08:43 PM:

Here goes favourite 35/70 machine Century JJ followed by DP70
Sound system CP 200 with all the upgrade cards fitted.
Xenon Lamphouse ZEBEX
Carbon Lamphouse Ashcraft Super Corelight
Base Super Simplex LL-1's (that's why I have a bad back)
Platter Kinoton

Favorite Booth GU Pitt Center 3. Just get rid of the Vic 8's.