This is topic words out of sync with picture in bedazzled in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001593
Posted by Shane Pena (Member # 575) on 10-21-2000, 12:22 PM:
Anyone have this problem...or know what it could be...In our print of Bedazzled, a couple of customers including myself have noticed that the words and lip movement of the characters are slightly out of sync, the trailers seem fine.
We have a cp500 penthouse. Thanx for any help!!!
Posted by Shane Pena (Member # 575) on 10-21-2000, 02:23 PM:
ok, I just watched the trailers and first reel of Bedazzled and noticed that the problem is noticable in both the trailers and throughout the film, the weird thing is that there are scenes that ARE in-sync and certain scenes are out of sync every show.
AHHHHHHH HELLP WHAT COULD BE THE PROBLEM?!
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 10-21-2000, 03:10 PM:
Seeing that the problem is occuring in both the trailers (assuming you are running more than just the attachment) AND the feature, you may have something threaded incorrectly...Try running the print in analog and see if the sync problem is still there. If so, get another print.
If not, then try running a different digital film in that theatre, threading it EXACTLY as you were for the current film, and see if there is a sync problem with analog or digital. If the problam is still there with digital, its either threading or an internal problem with the CP500. If its there both digital AND analog its threading.
Aaron
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-21-2000, 03:25 PM:
Actually if it is in both digital and analogue it rules out threading since they have a penthouse reader. It would be less probably to misthread both above and below the gate
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-21-2000, 03:34 PM:
Just a thought--do you have multiple penthouses? I once threaded through an SDDS penthouse, then a DTS penthouse, then the projector; the first couple of trailers (mono optical) were fine, of course, but when the SDDS kicked in for the feature (no DTS disks), the sync was horribly screwed up and I had to run that show in SR.
Does the sync problem happen on all reels? Occasionally, a reel might be printed with the soundtrack out of sync, but that's rare. Does it happen in SR, too?
Posted by Shane Pena (Member # 575) on 10-21-2000, 04:42 PM:
im going to run a different film through tonight to see if it does the same thing in that auditorium also try SR....if it does is there something that i can adjust myself with the processor? the delay is very very slight, I can tell that the words are spoken before the lips move.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-21-2000, 05:25 PM:
How early is it?Is it off by a couple of seconds? OR is is off by just a bit?
If it's WAY the hell off, you've got more than a threading problem.
I have to agree with the others. Double check and triple check your threading before you go dicking around with the processor. You'd be surprised how many people call me up and complain that the sound is out of sync and I go there and find that it was threaded wrong.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-21-2000, 11:46 PM:
I didn't notice any out-of-sync problems (but I didn't watch every minute of it.)I did notice (at the beginning of R2) there was a sort of "jump-cut" where it looked like a frame or two was lost. It occured twice. Since our print was new with no splices, I guess it was in the negative.
Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 10-22-2000, 01:06 AM:
Well you can't really just knock a DA20 out of sync! Someone could have been screwing around with it. Just make sure you have proper upper loop size. A few people at my work are STILL making the loop twice as big as it is supposed to be!! I can't believe it. I've seen a loop that almost touches the top wall of the simplex (and that sux because the top loop is the only one you can't fix while its running). I don't know why no one listens to me!
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-22-2000, 07:19 AM:
OK, then: how do you fix the bottom loop on a running Simplex?
Posted by Nicholas McRobert (Member # 205) on 10-22-2000, 08:10 AM:
Hmmmm.....maybe the Hollywood actor's union are in cahoots with the Lab worker's union. That Liz Hurley.....they really have it in for her! 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-22-2000, 08:41 AM:
John,You can actually adjust both loops but the upper is much harder because gravity is not working on your side.
To answer your question...ride your left finger on the inside of the lower loop and raise the pad roller...then use your right hand to develop slack after the sprocket to make it bigger or reduce tension on your left finger to make it smaller when it is where you want it, close the pad roller. Obviously, the soundhead will limit how much bigger your make the loop.
Steve
------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-22-2000, 11:16 AM:
Hmmm.... Changing the loop while running sounds a bit too risky for me. I think I would just "admit" I had made the loop wrong, stop the projector and fix it.Personally, I would like to get rid of that curved casting (that the film can hit right after the intermittent.) I know it is used to hold the bottom of the shutter cover, but a simple bracket could do the same thing, and there be a lot less worry about damaging the film from too big lower loops.
In regard to Nicholas's comment; yes, she scabbed on the union (SAG) and has tried to make up for it by giving $25,000 to the strike relief fund. But, people are still pissed at her. They are going to have a hearing at SAG about her, and others who scabbed (Tiger Woods, and other sports figures, who although are not "actors" per say, are union members.)
Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 10-22-2000, 01:23 PM:
Yes, the upper loop is REALLY difficult to change, i've only done it once (sometimes i'll practice while the tail is running out). What i do for the bottom one is just throw the pad roller open, pinch the film between two fingers underneeth the sprocket and using a combination of tension and lifting you can make the loop smaller or bigger. If you run out of room you just do the same on the sound drum sprocket (although you have to take care not to trip the failsafe, and it is a bit harder because of the damper arm working against you. it actually worked best on the older soundheads without the damper arm). At the theatre I work at, 12 of the old simplexes are actually missing those curved brackets! There is nothing on there to even replace them so if you bump the shutter guard it will nick the shutter. It kinda threw me off because i use that curved guard to check my loop size.
Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 10-23-2000, 10:55 AM:
Scott could be correct in his assumption that you may be threading through more than one penthouse unit at a time. When I have both a Dolby and a DTS penthouse on top of a projector it is imperative that only one is threaded through. IF not then the image and sound bite are seperated my more than the 21 frames. This will result your problem. I know this from experience. When I opened the multiplex where I work in 1995 I did thread through two readers and got out of sync soundHope this helps.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-30-2000, 12:45 PM:
If only one complete reel is out of sync, the sound negative and picture negative may not have been properly synced during printing. If the sync varies scene-to-scene, it may trace back to an editing problem, or imperfect ADR (automatic dialogue replacement) or dubbing. In reality, much of the dialog and sound effects in today's movies are recorded after the film is shot, so sync may not always be perfect for every scene. ------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Posted by Paul Cunningham (Member # 501) on 10-30-2000, 05:34 PM:
Not trying to offend too many people here, but experienced projectionists shouldn't have to go around changing loop sizes while the movie is running, they should thread up correctly the first time or find their error during pre start checks.And I agree with John, if there was a problem, then I would certainly stop the show and fix it rather than risk something worse happening by doing it on the run.
Paul
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-30-2000, 08:41 PM:
I've only messed around with the loop size during run-time ONCE!It was when I was running an old acetate print and the proj. hit a couple of busted out sprocket holes that caused the projector to "blow the loop".
It was a last-ditch emergency measure to prevent me from having to shut down to re-thread in the middle of the show. I'm glad to say it worked but I hope I never have to do it again. The sprocket teeth just about tore the flesh off my finger!
What lesson did **I** learn from that???
INSPECT YOUR FREAKIN' FILM!!! AND MAKE SURE YOU THREADED UP THE FREAKIN' PROJECTOR RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!! 
Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 10-30-2000, 09:02 PM:
I agree that the loops should be made correctly the first time. I learned how to change loop size while its running so that i can fix other peoples errors. I don't need to chance the size when i thread up because i do it exactly the same time every time. I've also got pictures of correct threading on simplex projectors with strong platters for brad's tip section (if they turn out right!)
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-31-2000, 06:49 AM:
John's comment made me remember to point this out: most Italian films are still shot entirely MOS (no sound recorded on the set) and dubbed later. The Italians are better at this than the Americans, it seems, and it's rare to see any obvious sync problems in most Italian films unless one is specifically looking for them. Are there any other countries where this is standard practice? I can't think of any offhand.