Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 'What Lies Beneath'

This is topic 'What Lies Beneath' - DTS question... in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001614

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 10-31-2000, 10:37 AM:

Our print of 'What Lies Beneath' has a peculiar DTS problem: there is time code throughout, but during reel 1 the DTS-6 unit responds as if the wrong discs have been loaded (the reader's light is a steady green). When spool two starts playing, it goes into digital properly. For what it's worth, the DTS discs are marked 'International Version', and it would seem that the print we received was rejuvenated from an American source.

I remember there was a similar problem with 'Scary Movie' in reel 4, because this reel had been reprinted due to a requested change to a line of dialogue. Does anyone know why this may have happened? Did anyone else have this problem? We are going to contact the distributor tomorrow to request a new print, as there are also numerous emulsion scratches throughout.

Here's further proof that it's a good idea to pre-screen films as soon as they arrive before the public sees them!

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 10-31-2000, 05:47 PM:

Seems like you Aussies just get shafted all the time, huh? Its a shame they just don't run off new prints for you guys. Anyhow, I ran my copy in DTS up until a week ago-2 and 1/2 months-with no problems. Good luck.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 11-02-2000, 02:24 AM:

I've spoken to Michael about this but for those curious...here's the answer.

In the US, WLB is distributed by Dreamworks. Internationally, it is distributed by Fox.

As Michael said, the prints are all used...well, upwards of 95% of them anyway according to Fox. Fox Australia have had the first 200 ft of reel one reprinted to include the fox tag (but not the dreamworks tag) the ImageMovers tag, the opening titles and the scene where Michelle Pfeiffer sits up in the bathtub with a start.

At this point, there is a splice and it's back to the original print which is where the dts drops out. It kicks in again at reel two.

The discs are labelled 'International Version'. A better option would be to have the 'Domestic Version' discs. This would mean we could play the opening 200 feet in SRD or SR then go to dts for the remainder of the reel.

If running in SRD, (on our print) the error rating goes from 2 for the new footage to 6.5 for the used print. The SRD loses it at the splice and drops to SR. The error rate is too high for it to kick back in automatically on a CP65 and so it will sit in SR until you hit SRD manually.

It would have made a whole lot more sense to have simply printed new reel ones completely instead of being cheap, but Fox has had it tough this year so...

By the way...ain't the soundtrack soft on this one? We would normally run at 4.6 to 5.4 but WLB is running on 6.4. Don't you just love the standards that have been set in the mixing studios?

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 11-02-2000, 03:21 AM:

Michael and John,

Would you guys agree that you have the most problems with rejuvenated prints from Fox? We certainly do, they seem to have a far higher proportion of rejuvenated prints to new ones.

I recently sent a two page explanation on the various rejuvenation processes used to all the major distributors here in Australia; UIP, Roadshow, Buena Vista, Fox and Columbia. It seems that most of the print controllers at these distributors are oblivious to what "rejuvenation" actually means.

Kodak have a good information section on the subject at their excellent web site. Even still most rejuvenation labs processes are shrouded in mystery as they use proprietry processes.

David

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-02-2000, 06:42 AM:

Here are links to some of the information about "rejuvenation" on the Kodak website:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/treat.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/hand2.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/operating7.shtml#rewashing

The 3M website has information on SCOTCHGARD Film Protector (formerly known as PHOTOGARD), which is sometimes used to coat prints:
http://www.3m.com/market/consumer/photogard/film.html

Dacar Products makes Imagegard:
http://www.dacarprod.com/www/ndatesh

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 11-03-2000, 03:25 PM:

Fox bring in a few second hand prints, but I've not had one lately which has been rejuvenated.

I don't mind getting second hand prints (of course, I prefer new ones) so long as they have not been rejuvenated.

If they leave the print alone and not treat it, I can have it looking as-new within 3 days with Filmguard and the Kelmar Cleaner. See 'FilmGuard gets its best workout yet' post in this forum.

I have found UIP and Buena Vista to be the worst this year for Photoguarding prints. Road To Eldorado and The Kid both suffered from this. The prints are dirty and then the dirt is locked in underneath the coating...

What on earth could be their reasoning for such a process?

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 11-03-2000, 03:32 PM:

If for some reason you got discs for the American version instead of the International version. Unfortunately, this can happen pretty easily at the film depot.

Please call your film distribuator and ask for another set of discs = if the discs you have do not say "international", then ask for international.

I hope this helps and sorry for the inconvience.

Karen at DTS

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 11-04-2000, 06:24 PM:

The problem is that they are international. We really need the American discs. I would forego running the opening two mins in dts to run the rest of reel one (15mins) in dts.

Wouldn't it have been easier to include a Fox tag on the discs and just have one set? It couldn't be that hard, there are different versions of other tags...why not a dreamworks and a fox tag?

Just a thought...

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 11-08-2000, 04:37 PM:

If you need the domestic (N. American) version, then call the film's distribuator and ask for it.

Karen at DTS

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 11-09-2000, 04:04 AM:

Hi Karen

I know you probably can't really answer this, but why not just add a Fox tag with different timecode?

Seems like the logical avenue instead of all these problems...

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 11-13-2000, 03:59 PM:

For John,

The problem with adding "just the Fox tag" is that it would have to be assigned a different reel number and the film distribuator wants to keep the tag a part of reel one (for domestic releases). When it comes to alternate languages or if the film is releasing through a different company overseas, it's a whole lot easier to just add the appropriate studio tag on the reel and them assign an "alternate reel number" to the first reel.

Discs are clearly marked as to which version they are. Problem is, the film depots are not that careful when packing the cans with film and discs.

If anyone gets the wrong discs, all they need do is contact the film distribuator, and if that fails, contact us.

Karen at DTS