Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: And it wasn't even Saturday night!

This is topic And it wasn't even Saturday night! in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001622

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-02-2000, 11:15 PM:

So there I am enjoying a nice Chinese dinner at a local restaurant. My cell phone rings and it is my partner telling me that projector #5 is making loud noises like a tractor.

I come in and feel the action of the projector and the projector jams every fourth movement of the intermittent. It turns backwards smoothly.

Well, I guess there wasn't enough oil in the machine. He tells me that there wasn't any splashing on the glass in the back. (If you guessed simplex-XL, you are correct.)

Well, I have downloaded the important parts of the manual from the Manuals section of Film-Tech. I have ordered a new intermittent assembly from my cinema supplier for Saturday delivery. Hopefully I can get it installed and running properly for our shows on Saturday.

Wish me luck and if anybody has any tips or tricks let me know.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-03-2000, 05:21 AM:

Yes, don't forget to refill the projector with oil after the new intermittent is installed and most importantly...put the back cover back on! (Yes, at least one tech that I know of forgot to do this.)

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-03-2000, 05:50 AM:

If the intermittent has not completely "frozen", perhaps several changes of oil (to get rid of any metal debris generated while running nearly dry) would allow you to use it today (Friday), until you have the replacement in hand. If the movement is frozen, or the cam or starwheel was severely damaged, you're stuck until the replacement arrives.

You've relearned an expensive lesson about the importance of checking the oil level on a regular basis, ideally, daily.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-03-2000, 06:27 AM:

I've never changed an intermittent but I've changed the shutter shaft and spline.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-03-2000, 08:31 AM:

Sorry to hear that, Ian... I've seen the prices for intermittent rebuilds (which are high, even for common machines like Century and Simplex) and would hate to think about what a new one would cost...

This is probably obvious, but don't forget to time the shutter after you replace the intermittent!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-03-2000, 09:27 AM:

Also check the oil pump on the chance that it has failed

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-03-2000, 09:53 AM:

Ian,

If there are any teeth missing or damaged on the intermittent drive gear (fibre), look in the sump to see if there are any pieces down there. Eventurally one will get sucked up through the strainer and get pumped around.

Your intermittent can most probably be rebuilt to good or better than new condition. E-mail me if you are interested.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-03-2000, 12:14 PM:

My cinema supplier tells me that a rebuilt one is on its way for Saturday deliver. I get to send the old one back to him to be rebuilt.

The intermittent is not compleatly frozen, John. But it hangs on every fourth rotation. So one star cam is messed up. We have a couple of slow films so we are doubling them up in one auditorium. Ah, the pleasures of a multiplex. We only have one film title that is raking in the dough (Best in Show) so that isn't affected. I might try your suggestion if I were deperate, but I don't want to trash the fiber gear just to rake in an extra $200.00 in Box Office. I suspect that the public will grouse about it but come to the later show.

Nothing concetrates the mind like the spector of death or a busted intermittent.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-04-2000, 03:08 PM:

So!

I came into work this morning to wait for the UPS driver to bring me a new intermittent. My first show is at 1:00 PM.

At 12:15 PM he arrives. I run upstairs with the new intermittent. I have already removed the old one. I try to put the new one in. It is a tight fit. I try tapping it with a hammer. Doesn't work. I wiggle it around and finally it seats. I tighten the screws, put oil in the beast and start up the motor.

Ah! It runs like a sewing machine! I thread up the film and try to motor it along. No luck. What! The intermittent isn't driving the sprocket. I un-thread the machine. I open the back up and find two screw heads. I think where do these go? I grab the flywheel to see if it turns and it comes off in my hand.

The screws that hold the flywheel on the shaft have sheared off and the shafts are in the threads.

So I try to put the old intermittent back in because we are 5 minutes past show time and there is a paying audience in there. But it doesn't work. It is loud and shaky and since I didn't get a chance to adjust the shutter there is a mean travel ghost. I refund the show and there I am.

I am going to try to use my drill to back out the screw shafts.

Wish me luck.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-04-2000, 03:36 PM:

Me thinks the tapping it in has created a rather serious problem
An intermitent is a precision device even more so than the projector head as a whole
It shoul not require "tapping in"

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-04-2000, 03:57 PM:

So, the business partner's boyfriend shows up and says, “Hey lets just back these screws out using a Q-Tip.” So he does just that.

I use the old screws from the old intermittent and put the new one back in. I timed the shutter and it looks like we are good to go.

We should re-title this thread...

How a Q-Tip saved the Intermittent from a Meatball with a Hammer!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-04-2000, 04:12 PM:

Ahhh! Movie projecors and hammers!!
They go together about as well as oil and water.
Buy me a couple beers someday and I'll tell you some stories!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-04-2000, 05:43 PM:

I always worry when see a fellow engineers tool kit has a hammer on the top

Posted by Jon Bartow (Member # 241) on 11-05-2000, 12:48 PM:

I don't even have a hammer in my toolkit

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-05-2000, 03:22 PM:

Good the only ones I carry are a very small ball and peen hammer and a small one with plastic/rubber ends
Both are burried in the bottom somewhere

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-05-2000, 04:14 PM:

It never ends. Apparently the intermittent is in too tight. There isn't any gear lash and you can feel the intermittent movement in the framing knob. As a result the framing is creeping during the film.

I was told to go back in and back off on the tightness of something and get some gear lash? I don't know how I am going to accomplish this task.

So I am waiting for them to hang Bjork so I can rip in to the beast again.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-06-2000, 06:08 AM:

So I go home last night and my partner calls up and tells me the problem has gotten worse, and he is realy pissed and he wants the problem solved now! Thanks for sharing.

I come in this morning and fire off a letter to my cinema supplier and he tells me that I should adjust the vertical shaft.

I loosen the 5 allen screws that hold the vertical shaft bracket to the projector and the vertical shaft practicaly jumps away from the intermittent. I tighten things up and away we go.

I have a loop in there now. I thought I might leave it running for an hour and see if there is a problem. The projector still runs louder than before, with film in it.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-06-2000, 09:43 AM:

Well, there is something else wrong.

I have checked many things and my problem isn't the new intermittent. Nor the soundhead gearbox, or the mesh between the gears on the vertical drive shaft. It may be the bottom gear on teh vertical drive shaft. I have to pull the vertical drive shaft in order to find out. That is the subject not covered in the Simplex manual.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-06-2000, 10:52 AM:

So I pulled the vertical drive shaft and had a look. The only think that seems amis is a crack at the bottom where the casting holds the bearing in. There is a little vertical play. Would this cause me problems?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-06-2000, 09:56 PM:

Ian, That is a common thing that happens when an X-L is rebuilt or worked on by an inexperienced techie. That allen screw only needs to be slightly tightened and as long as its not super tourqued it should not matter too much. The way it is now it applies uneven pressure to the ball bearing and could distort the race. It would be proper to replace the casting though and it is not too expensive. There should not be any end play in the verticle shaft. It has a preload spring at the top and is set for just a slight preload and then the clamp for the bottom bearing is snuged down only. Not tourqued!! If the shutter gear is not the rubber "anti-shock" type then all should be ok there but replace all the spacers and preload springs and the casting.
Check the oil pump parts for excessive wear and you can replace the impellers and spring for a song and a dance while it is apart. I once took apart an oil pump that had a broken spring in it.............
In the future be sure to check for oil splash on the window every night. Thats the real reson the window was placed there in the first place(according to Howard Straight).
When re-assembling the machine be sure that all gears have proper mesh and use all new gaskets. The old gaskets will not seal correctly if you try to re-use them. Getting proper gear mesh in an X-L takes some patience and care. also careful oil tube and collector alignment is critical so the intermittant gets just the right amount of oil. Not too much and not too little. If you get it all right it will run for another 20 years at least. Good luck!!
Mark

Posted by Rick Fowler (Member # 605) on 11-08-2000, 12:58 PM:

well guess there is a big lesson in this, when you haven't ever replaced a part before call the manufacturer and have one of thier techs talk you through it. It will only cost you the amount of a long distance call and you won't ruin any part by installing something incorrectly. that's my advice call Strong.

------------------
Regal Booth Certifier

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 11-08-2000, 01:26 PM:

Ian -- call us in Omaha. Talk with either myself or Dan Twohig, we'll get you through. 800-424-1215.
Sorry I'm late to reply but just got back from a trip overseas...

Pat

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-09-2000, 01:57 PM:

Mission accomplished!

The new intermittent #2 works like a charm. It had nothing to do with the vertical drive shaft. New intermittent #1 just didn't like to work under load.

This problem only took a week to solve and has been a royal pain in the butt.

We are back to being a five-plex, which is good because we have 7 prints this weekend including Billy Elliot and a Hitchcock film from 1947 called Shadow of a Doubt which was filmed in Santa Rosa.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-15-2000, 01:49 PM:

In another post, I posted:

"I think that some of the problems I have been having with my Simplex XL is an unbalanced shutter blade.
The projector has a vibration problem. The vibration is causing the framing to move down. You can see the vibration when you look in the back of the machine because the shutter drive assembly is bouncing on its spring.

When I loosened the shutter to retime the shutter, I turned on the machine and the vibration was gone. When I tightened the shutter the vibration was back.

What do you think?"

I ran all weekend with a C-clamp holding the framing knob still.

My cinema supplier was dead sure that it was my gearbox and I was dead sure it was the shutter blade. He sent me both for Saturday delivery. I didn't have time to install this stuff on Saturday, as we were running an extended schedule and making money hand over fist.

On Monday I replaced the shutter which entails loosening the lamp house and pulling it back six inches, removing the back of the projector and then it's easy. It didn't solve the problem.

So I installed the Gearbox. It isn't hard but I had never done it before. After getting the new one installed, oiled and tight, I ran the motor to see if I got it in line. Then I reassembled everything and the problem was solved.

The projector is running well. It took me a week and a half and three parts but it works now.

I must admit that I have been an emotional wreak this past week. It feels good to have solved the problem.

Besides you guys, I emailed 6 different technicians. My guy is in Hong Kong this week. I received from them 6 different suggestions of things to look at. I am glad that my cinema supplier was correct but I am still mystified by this problem.

His explanation is that the lack of oil caused the intermittent to go out. It there was not enough oil in the projector then it can be argued that there wasn't enough oil in the gearbox. The strain of the intermittent going out also caused the gearbox to have a problem.

Well he gets the $1,000 and the booby prize. Thanks for all of your attention.

The Machine works!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-15-2000, 02:02 PM:

For all of us, it bears repeating what I said early in this thread: "You've relearned an expensive lesson about the importance of checking the oil level on a regular basis, ideally, daily."

That reminds me, it's been almost 4000 miles since I changed the oil in my van, but at least I check the level in it every few weeks. Ah! Procrastination.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-20-2000, 02:40 PM:

Just moving this up for William Dickson to read.