Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Christie platter catching "fire"

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 11-04-2000, 01:10 AM:

I am never here when this happens but its happened 2 weeks in a row both on the same screen (and I think the same platter decks) This is a christie AW-3 with removeable brains. 2 weeks in a row always on a friday matinee the second running of a new print. The payout platter brain wraps. The take-up platter keeps tring to spin! The motor still tries to spin the deck but the deck cannot move because the polyestar film is tight to the point of stretching. The motor still trying to spin the deck causes an unbelievaible amount of friction and the rubber part that contacts the side of the deck starts to smoke and fills the whole booth with thick black smoke!!! why is this happening! shouldnt the motor stop when the arm is all the way in towards the tree? all the others do! I though maybe it was getting hung up on something but I cannot recreate this can anyone please help! this is nuts! never had problems like this with the Potts platters i used to work on! Thanx I know all you master film techers can help (I hope!

)

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-04-2000, 01:36 AM:

Right off the bat, I'm wondering if the finger on the graduated filter inside the arm isn't catching. This is a common problem with the arm slamming full throttle into the motor and continuing to run. Remove the arm of the platter's end cap and shine light into there and look as you manually (platter power off) move the takeup arm. See if it is catching. If so, remove the platter deck, remove the axle (4 bolts), and using an allen wrench, move the filter ever so slightly up or down (whatever is necessary).

This could be cause by other things, but that one seems to be the prime reason.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-04-2000, 08:06 AM:

I'm in agreement there.

Do a FULL function check on that platter right away. In the manual, there are a list of things you should do when you install the platter. Do what it says. If there are ANY malfunctions, even little ones, get the platter fixed.

The reason I say that is because you mention that you're having brain wraps. That tells me there's more going on than meets the eye. There may be a "hidden" problem causing the one you are telling us about.

If you don't know how to do this call your Tech. or somebody who does know. I would go into more detail but I don't know how much you know. It's not "hard" but you have to do it right.

Christies CAN be good platters IF you keep them maintained correctly. (It's just that there is a LOT of maintainence to do on them!)

I've had people in my area really F*** up platters trying to "FIX" them.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 11-04-2000, 11:21 PM:

well it happened again today and I was there to witness the horror. Because im a nice guy I was covering the box while someone was on a break when a customer comes out and sais that the film is burning on the screen so I yelled for someone to take over box and myself and the head supervisor ran up to a booth full of smoke.and shut the platter off and fixed the film. I was talking about it today with the GM you see at my theatre everything is a brainwrap it was actually a tailwrap causing the problem. the projector is in an addition to the booth that was not very well designed and static is an issue. I think brad is on the right track and I will print this out and give it to my boss.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-05-2000, 01:48 AM:

For the time being, whenever you must run a film on that platter giving you constant trouble without a projectionist supervising...remove the brain from the takeup platter and see if that gives you any relief until you can fully diagnose the problem.

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 11-06-2000, 08:27 AM:

My feelings on the take up slamming into the motor is that your platter timing is off. When it happens to me, I re-adjust the timing and the arm then only travels about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way over.

Brad. I don't think the finger would have anything to do with this. It could only catch when the arm tries to go back though.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-06-2000, 09:48 AM:

Paul,

I've seen it happen. In fact, the theater I'm at had about half a dozen that were catching and slamming into the show. A simple raising or lowering (can't remember which) of the led filter solved the problem.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 11-06-2000, 10:49 AM:

well I think all of our platters need to be retimed. Today i had to stick a christie stick-a-poo in the brain of one of them so that saving grace wouldnt go flying off the platter. Ill let you know if this works

Posted by Mike Jones (Member # 522) on 11-08-2000, 05:01 PM:

are you all a bit curious as to why you're having problems with your prints going crazy? well, here's the answer. Its cold. The building's heating system is kicking in. You are constantly licking your lips because they're so dry from the hot moisture free air that's being forced throughout the building. This should tell you something. You need humidifiers, yep, and if you already have them... maybe you need more. I also reccomend going to radio shack and purchasing "humidity dectors" for your booth area. they range between $10-$30 each. I just put some up and noticed the same day that our humidity levels are way low. humidity levels should be betweeen 40% and 60%. right now we're in the lower 30s and have not had any problems so far this year. Last year, it was a mess, thrown prints almost everyday!

That's the truth!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-09-2000, 07:50 AM:

Prints made on KODAK VISION Color Print film having Kodak's conductive anti-static base, and processed using the anti-static process additive that Kodak recommends should have much fewer problems with "static cling". As Mike Jones notes, this year things are alot better. But occasional incidents can still occur with other films, especially when booth humidity gets too low.

Here are some useful articles, published before Kodak developed the new VISION Color Print film:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/september99/pointers.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/september98/pppp.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/may97/pytlak.shtml http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/faq/static.shtml

My article in the September 2000 issue of Kodak Cinema Notes (H-50-56) suggests other reasons for platter problems, such as platter timing, excess moisture, and surface contamination with oil or tape residue. Not all that sticks is static.

Using the suggestions in these articles (especially regarding humidity control) should help reduce "static cling", even on other manufacturers films that do not have the conductive anti-static coating, or processed by labs that aren't using the antistatic process additive recommended by Kodak.

Many on Film-Tech have reported that proprietary film treatments like FilmGuard also help reduce static problems on release prints.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 11-10-2000, 12:08 AM:

well it hasnt happened for a few days so I think it has something to do with prints that have just been made-up I always inspect the film and at the bench while I put it on 6k reels. then I load these on to the platter. i do run the MUT at close to full speed could this somehow cause more statis? John that was a great article I remember reading it in film notes I agree that people use static as an axcuse way too much! And about the FG I am waiting for it to come in my boss tells me its on the way!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-10-2000, 04:43 AM:

Stopping and starting the MUT during buildup from conventional shipping reels will definitely cause payout problems on that first run. Building as you are doing to 6000 footers and then loading is much better. On the Christie MUT (the older one, not sure on the newer one) I don't recommend loading any faster than the 2:00 position, assuming you have maxed out the speed control's trimpot internally. The slower the better. Loading is generally not much of an issue. While the first half of the movie is loading, you build the second half. While the second half is loading, you build up the first half of the next movie on the rewind bench. Thus, you really don't need to run any faster than 1/2 speed to keep up with your inspections at the rewind bench.

For panic situations regarding static, a couple of paper towels folded over on themselves to make them more plush (or webril wipes) with FilmGuard sprayed thickly on them works excellent. Just start the platter spinning (use the MUT or stick something in the brain to make the deck spin) and hold the wet towels at the center of the film roll and slowly wipe from center to edge and then take-up the film "upside down" so you can wipe the other edge on the next show. The static will be gone. This isn't the best way to take full advantage of FilmGuard, but many theaters without the budget to buy a Kelmar media cleaning machine use this procedure once a week to eliminate static. (Do not spray the FG directly onto the print. It will make a mess on and around the platter and not accomplish an even coating.)

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 11-10-2000, 11:11 PM:

I wish I could do that Brad but the FG still hasnt arrived!!! we have a media cleaner so that should not be a problem. I WANT FILM GUARD!!! oh well someday if im lucky maybe I'll get to experience the myrical of Film Guard! better yet brad we have to rewind benches so I can build 2 movies to 6k reels at once! Start the first one and inspect for about half the reel then start the second movie! But you see no matter what I do to increase my "Productivity" the managers still want the booth work done faster! Oh well The American Multiplex!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-10-2000, 11:51 PM:

I guess you should stop wasting their time with inspections and be sure to use masking tape for reel joints. That'll make breakdown faster.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 11-11-2000, 12:50 AM:

Brad,
Why even make-up the prints no one wants to see the movie they dont come for that! they come to buy concessions and watch the slide advertising! Don't you know that!

LOL! actually my company is not that bad at all! The GM really cares about the presentation the other managers well. There great MANAGERS.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-11-2000, 03:03 AM:

Oh, I'm just kidding. Actually it's refreshing to hear of management that cares.

You mentioned slide advertising. I actually got a complaint awhile back when a slide bulb had burned out. The customers felt they were being cheated! Geez, if I was in that auditorium waiting for the movie to start, I'd be HAPPY the bulb was out for when there is a slide on screen, I feel compelled to read it. Could that trivia possibly be any worse? Crap like:

TRUE or FALSE: In the movie "Titanic", the ship sank.

Oh please!

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 11-12-2000, 01:20 AM:

Or my personal favorite;

The Vietnamese though that The Sound Of Music Was Too Long so they shortened it bye cutting out all the songs!

LOL hahhahah its FUNNY to see a classic destroyed!!! oh well its A profit center!

Posted by Sean M. Grimes (Member # 445) on 11-12-2000, 02:05 AM:

Ok Sean, either you work for Hoyts of you have the lovely "Val Morgan" for cinema advertising!!! But can you tell me where the climax of North by North west happened?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-12-2000, 07:18 AM:

The trivia slides are _good_ compared to the "audience partiticapation" ones, though. Does anyone actually "clap if you like to slurp up spaghetti"?!?!

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 11-12-2000, 11:56 AM:

>> Does anyone actually "clap if you like to slurp up spaghetti"?!?!<<

Believe it or not they HAVE...

Of course they are called 'Senseless Surveys' for a reason At least switching from Coke to Pepsi had ONE advantage, no more 'Screen Play' slides!

Aaron

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 11-12-2000, 12:51 PM:

Click Clack

Ok sound out the clues

Slide + Shows + Suck!

Click Clack

Answer: Slide Shows Suck

Click Clack

Screen Lights are much much better!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-12-2000, 02:33 PM:

curtains are even better

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-13-2000, 06:01 AM:

And curtains helped protect the screen from dirt and damage between shows. Sigh.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 11-13-2000, 03:19 PM:

well heres a question for you. (I am not in anyway trying to defend the theatres) what if it came down to slide shows or A Projectionist. Say at this particualr theatre the slide revenue paid the Projectionists salary. We say the ads annoy people look bad etc... etc... and Curtains protect the screen and look better. But having a real fulltime Projectionist keeps the equipment and film better. So if the slides go the Projectionist goes. This seems like a lose lose situation

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-13-2000, 03:27 PM:

Sean:

No contest. I'd keep the skilled projectionist and show the ads before the show. I may fondly remember curtains, but I really miss having a skilled person in the booth, maintaining the equipment and checking the presentation quality on all the screens. Good projection and "showmanship" is much more than threading projectors and pushing buttons.

Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 11-13-2000, 10:13 PM:

Of course when running slides, one can still have a curtain call before each show.