Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: oil change

This is topic oil change in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by William Dickson (Member # 314) on 11-23-2000, 03:00 PM:

I have yet another question. Can someone please walk me through all the steps for changing oil in a Simplex 35? I know I need to do it but the manual doesn't really explain how to. Thanks!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-23-2000, 03:32 PM:

What model? I'm assuming you have either a PR-2000 (AKA: "Millennium") or a PR-1050. The only real differences are where the oil fillers are and stuff like that. Mostly, they are identical inside where it counts.

There's not much to it, really. All you have to do is drain out the old and refill it with new. If you have been keeping up with your other maintainence that's about it. If you haven't then I suggest you give the projector a good going-over.... Otherwise all you should have to do is give it an extra-good cleaneing, check the belts and replace them if you have to. Give it a "function check" and you're done.

If you want to you can take the back off and clean out the oil sump and strainer by hand. If you've been keeping up on maintanence that's not too critical.

Funny... as easy as it is to do this stuff, it's the least kept up part of the projector in a lot of booths. Hell, I'm lucky to even find oil in HALF the projectors I look at!

Posted by William Dickson (Member # 314) on 11-23-2000, 09:36 PM:

When I drain the oil, do I just stick a bucket or something under the plug until it stops draining? After that can I just take the oil to a waste disposal site to get rid of it? I'm thinking of a quickie lube or something of the sort?

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 11-23-2000, 09:47 PM:

At the drivein, I just dump the old oil on the ground.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 11-23-2000, 11:02 PM:

Ooooh... You're gonna hear about that, Ken! Just because it *came* from the ground, doesn't mean it's supposed to go *back* ......

My suggestion is to simply save it up in a 4-5 gallon container. (That's a lotta Simplex oil changes. I don't know how many, but a guess would be about 40.) When the container gets full, then take it to a local gas station, etc. and have them dispose of it properly. In my town, the local fire dept. will set up a collection once a month where you can drop it off to them. Maybe there's something like that in your town.

Mark the container, so no one thinks it's "good" oil, and uses it again.

A guy I know used to dump his old car oil into his oil tank for the furnace. He would pour in a quart, wait a few days, pour in another, etc. He said that it would clog the nozzle if 5 quarts tried to go through at once, but with only a quart every few days, it was OK.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 11-24-2000, 07:43 AM:

As someone who worked on oil furnaces for many years, I bet the guy that put small amounts of motor oil in the furnace had a nice smoky flame when the furnace ran, and had to have the heat exchanger wire-brushed out more often than someone that only used #2 oil.

As someone who changes the oil on his vehicles every 2-3000 miles, I dont understand why the projector oil cant be changed with some regularity. I'm a stickler for correct oil levels in everything that I own.

(The Holmes uses a grease pack, and is checked far more often than the manual suggests)

My big RCA TP-66 Telecine projector is the only one that I own that needs an oil change now and then. The oil is absolutely level with the mark on the sight-glass before I begin using it. I learned this after the TV station bought a new "66" in 1980, their first, and never checked the oil levels after the tech set it up at the delivery time. They had to replace the intermittent suddenly less than 6 months after the purchase, and I remember the unit costing around 12,000 bucks!

My "66" pair are from the late '60's, had regular maintenance, and are still running perfectly after many thousand hours of running time.

My uncle Bill Broome, got me started doing proper maintenance on my mechanical toys. Oil in the cars is never allowed to get very dark before I change it. Bill is now in his 90's and his 1960's truck purrs with over 250,000 miles on the original engine.

Please remember my Uncle Bill. He is battling cancer now.

How often do Century and Simplex (for example) recommend the oil changes? This should be logged the way xenon lamp changes are done.

Posted by William Dickson (Member # 314) on 11-24-2000, 12:53 PM:

The manual for our projectors (Simplex 1040's) says to change oil annually. I think that's not oftern enough and will try to do it every 6 months

Posted by Michael Cunningham (Member # 210) on 11-24-2000, 04:07 PM:

Yes, every six months is recommended on a Simplex and yeah, just drain the oil out through that little stem on the front, beneath the lenses, until it stops coming out (it will drip for quite some time). Then, you're supposed to take the gear cover off, the back cover of the projector with the window in it. Wipe out all the excess oil and grit from all the gearing and compartment walls, don't forget to also clean the cover / window and the rubber gasket seal and the frame of the projector where the seal will contact it. Be sure not to use something that's going to leave little pieces of itself in the gearing like paper towels or something. A good grease rag that doesn't shed fibers is a good choice. Now, you have to find the oil filter and remove and clean it. It's located in slightly different places depending on the model, check your manual. On my projectors, it's in the lower, left-hand corner. There's a silver, rectangular block thingy which is the oil pump. Coming out of the left side of this is some copper tubing attached to the silver block with a nut. The tubing bends downward into the projector sump and has a small metal basket thing attached to its end. This is the filter and is removed by loosening the nut and twisting the tubing upward and out of the machine. Then just run under hot water and THOROUGHLY DRY. This is important since oil and water don't mix. Now replace the filter and cover and pour fresh oil in the fill spout up top, it's easier if you use a funnel set aside for this purpose. Fill till your sightglass shows only a small bubble at the top, or to the metal ring if you have the front mounted "tube type" sight glass. Wait ten minutes for the oil to settle and make any final adjustments to oil level. Then start up your motor and check to be sure that the oil is moving around well, splashing all over the window and such.

-Mike

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-24-2000, 05:05 PM:

If there has been any gear work done in the head the oil should be changed very frequently to allow the parts to hone in and remove the removed metal bits
After work I usually go
1 day
50 hours
100 hours
500 hours
1000 hours from then on

Posted by Richard Tuller (Member # 682) on 11-25-2000, 12:03 AM:

I just drain it through the intermitt

Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 11-25-2000, 07:04 AM:

Bruce, congrats on your TP-66. They were great machines. I used them in a TV station I worked at '66 - '68. (we had 4 of them, plus two others of an older vintage ... TP - 6 maybe??) I don't remember what the maintainence schedule was like, as the maintainence engrs. did that. I was strictly involved with on-air work. They just ran and ran.

I'm suprised they were still available new in the '80's.

A few years back I saw one for sale at a hamfest flea market. It had a $100 price tag on it, but alas I don't think it ever got a new home. I was tempted!!

With the right lens, one of those would be great to have at home!

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 11-25-2000, 10:01 AM:

Jeff:

Since this is not a 16mm site, I wont drone on too long about "candy gauge"..

The TP-66's that we got in 1980 were in fact brand new. I remember them because I signed the waybill from RCA in Deptford, NJ. Maybe they were new old stock...figures if this is true, we were a struggling UHF indie...

We replaced a pair of TP-6's that were well-used when we got them in 1976. We referred to them as the "chompers" We damaged more film during the 4 years of use than I care to remember.

After the replacement, I informed the film distributors that we had new equipment. Suddenly, we started getting something that until then was unheard of....new prints !!

As for the lens issue, a pair of Bell & Howell 1.5" lenses are good, except that with the 5 bladed shutters, the image is a bid dim.

I got this pair for the cost of moving them out of the building and loading them on my ugly truck ($0.) There will soon be another one in my garage. I'm thankful for a cement floor!

Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 11-25-2000, 12:41 PM:

Why change the oil? My head tech kenny Layton needs somthing to do. He is great at rebuilding projectors.

Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 11-27-2000, 07:05 AM:

Bruce, here's your opportunity to get a companion for that TP-66!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=510784974

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 11-27-2000, 08:06 AM:

Jeff:

Thanks for the link. Actually, the TP that I am getting this weekend is of the same vintage as the one in your link--right down to the old RCA badge.

At least I dont have to drive to Dallas to get it!

I will be doing major maintenance on it when I get it home. I got a manual from a film-tech reader along with some old GWTW footage a few months back.

If it interests anybody, I am restoring an old multiplexer so that I can run 2 TP's and a slide projector on the one camera. The camera is just a Vidicon, but works well enough for me to transfer some home movies for friends...at sound speed... Pic does not smear!

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-27-2000, 08:14 PM:

Bruce:

Can you record on 3/4"? I've got some great 16mm B-Westerns....

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Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 11-28-2000, 09:30 AM:

Tim:

I have a Sony 2850 3/4" boat anchor that will be in running order within a few months. I can handle VHS-Hi-Fi, Beta Hi-Fi, and 3/4" Lo-Fi. Before I do anything, I will be getting a new (for me) camera to use that I can run with the chroma turned off. I HATE color fringing on B/W goodies.

Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 11-28-2000, 01:15 PM:

On the simplex I drain the oil out like normal then once its all done draing i use a turkey baster to get ALL the dirty oil out. I also remove the oilfilters as tricky and delicate as those little brass things are and soak them in WD-40. I the use WD-40 and spray out the entire grear assembly first removing the glass back plate of course. I use the turkey baster to drain all the WD-40 out as well. <It seems the oil collects in a little puddle that the drain cant get to> I use a brush and try to get all the grime off the gear assembly using the WD-40 to rinse it all off. Drain Drain Drain. Replace back the cleaned out oil filter and clean oil and you are done for another year. Just replenish as necessary. Plus if the projector is extremely dirty i use a little pencil magnet to get out and particles of metal that might clog the oil filter. Takes about 3 hours for a 14 plex with another person helping you.

Rory

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-28-2000, 11:02 PM:

Bruce:

Sounds good! Maybe we can work up a deal when you get there? Right now, I've got el-cheapo VHS copies of nearly everything I have in 16mm - you know, the $2 stuff that you can get off the shelf at K-mart and such... But I wouldn't mind having some of my originals xnsfred.

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Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-29-2000, 05:23 AM:

So...umm..Bruce...where do you find this stuff?

I had a chance to grab one of those RCA telecine projectors for $250, but passed. Apparently they're difficult to convert for use as conventional projectors and I don't have space for one, anyway. (I have no need for a film-chain in my house.)

Do you have the original 3-tube camera that's as big as the projector?

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 11-29-2000, 08:26 AM:

Uhm, Uhm (cough, cough)

Three years ago, I got 1 TP in Nashville from a TV production company when they ripped it out after they stopped doing 16mm work. When I arrived to pick it up, they asked me if I wanted a camera to go with it. Naturally, I said "why not!" and was given a TK-28 camera with the built-in multiplexer, slide projector, and monitor. Somebody brought out a big cardboard box full of papers and small parts and stuck it in the seat of the truck. (When I got home, I found that the box contained the manuals, set-up slides, and 3 spare NEW tubes for the camera!)

The guys at the business helped load the monsters in the truck, and I drove the 300 miles back home.

Here's the bad part:

After spending countless hours and weekends wiring and adjusting the beast, we had a big sync module failure. THEN a bar module died. I forgot to mention that the camera had not been run for almost 2 years before I got it.

THEN we found that we could not get parts from RCA for this thing, and we had access to nothing that we needed for repairs.

I did get to transfer about 30 hours of film before we lost the Chroma modules. After that, I copied a few B/W films, but the video was starting to smear.
----------
We installed the beast at a friends warehouse so there was plenty of room for it and the projector.
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We made the decision to scrap the thing after almost a year of begging for modules from friends in TV. We got several spares mods, but could never get the smear out of the video image, so we SCRAPPED (Aaraugh! ) the camera/multiplexer/slide projector!

Here's the good part:

I sold the 3 new tubes, set-up slides, time-base corrector, slide unit, mirrors, and manuals on the net for more than it cost me in vehicle wear, gas, and irritation on the trip to Nashville and back to Asheville. Made $$ on the deal!

About 6 months ago, a local station pulled their TP pair, and an RCA stand-alone multiplexer, slide projector, and gave one projector, and the 'plexer, and slide unit to me to haul. These are currently set-up in my garage along with the TP that I got in Nashville.

I hated destroying the camera, but we couldn't do anything else!

The 2 projectors are clean and in good condition. I have tweeked them and they are gentle on film. I've transferred some 60 year old B/W silent home movies on them with no problems. The image is rock steady.

The one that I will get this weekend is older, but is currently running as a stand-alone "viewer." There's a small speaker and amp installed on it, and it works fine. I love free things!

I promise not to continuously corrupt this site with sucky video, NTSC systems, and 16mm.

Does that tell you enough, Scott?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-01-2000, 07:43 PM:

Wow Bruce,
I spent a number of years maintaining that same stuff for a station in Chicago. I never really liked the TK-28 much but the TK 27 did great black and white as it had a 1.5" luminance vidicon tube, plus 3 tubes for color. Never had much trouble with the film chains, just normal maintainance and such. The shading of the TK-28's was just never as good as the old 27's were. I also maintained 5 TK-45's and that was a constant job. I'd be tweaking a camera sometimes just as it was going on the air!! Phew........2 of the 45's also got moved around between studios 3 times a day for different productions. They got powered down, moved, and powered back up. Usually they worked but not always after a re-power up. Then it seems like we only had 10 min. to get it back up. I happily left TV to work in film projection. I don't miss television at all. About the only TV activity I engage in now is restoring old pre 1950's B&W tv's.
Mark

Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 12-02-2000, 08:55 AM:

Mark, When I worked in TV in the mid/late '60's I think we had TK 43's. These were the squatty style enclosures. I believe they had 3 vidicons and one orthicon. Gosh, my memory is going out. Anyway they were moved between three studios every day, but never had to be disconneted as they were on long cables that came from a central connection that went up to the camera controls in the master control room. The only thing that had to be done when moving cameras was to "patch" the tally lights so they would operate with the switcher that controlled that studio.

Good luck with fixing the old TV's - there's a guy in Indianopolis (his name his name is Jeff Lendaro - an engineer at RCA/Thompson) who is one of the biggest restorers and collectors of old TV's in the country. I'll stick with fixing the old shortwave/ham communications receivers. Jeff

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 12-02-2000, 09:22 AM:

Ooh Ooh Ooh...

I've got a 1961 RCA color TV with the round tube that works. I got it in 1975 as junk and put a new kine in it.

Some film-Tech subject, eh?

Posted by Harry Robinson (Member # 265) on 12-02-2000, 09:55 AM:

You know, one of the good things about my Super Simplex is that it kind of changes it's oil continuously. See...there's a bright side to everything.

Seriously, how often should I change the oil in the intermittent and the RCA 1040 gear box?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-02-2000, 02:00 PM:

Here's a question...

Since we all know that Simplex leaks oil... How much leaking is TOO MUCH?

I have a lot of theatres call me up and say that the projector leaks oil and they all want me to come and fix it. I just tell them that unless it's gushing oil that they shouldn't worry about it . (There WERE a couple that were bad enough to fix, however.)

I tell them to go get some of those "EZ-Foil" cookie sheets and put them on the floor. Everybody always looks at me like I have three heads when I say that.

What's the consensus on this?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-02-2000, 02:20 PM:

My rule of thumb for supers or e7's if there isn't a puddle on the floor under the machine it isn't getting enough oil

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-04-2000, 08:19 AM:

Losing enough oil so that the proper oil level is hard to maintain calls for maintenance. A slight "ooze" or a few drops a day is not a problem, unless it gets on the film.

Keep the interior of the machine clean, and oil off the film. Oil on film causes visible "oil mottle", sticking of the film during unwinding, holding of dirt particles, and can actually leach the oil-soluble dyes out of the film (usually seen as tiny green spots in dark scenes).

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 12-04-2000, 09:33 AM:

Well, this may seem a bit crude, but it is too amusing to not mention. I know of one projectionist who puts a tampon in the lower corner of the sound head. The string is left hanging out the door and when the string starts to drip he changes the "absorber".

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-19-2001, 02:57 PM:

That is hillarious! But why must ALL simplex projectors leak? I used to work at 12 plex that had Simplex Milleniums less than a year and a half old, and half of them were already leaking!!! Would replacing a seal somewhere do the trick?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 09-19-2001, 04:33 PM:

If the castings are porous ( which is the #2 cause of oil leaks on Simplexes after bad seals) unless you disassemble, strip and seal the inside of the gear side, its gonna LEAK! Simplexes are infamous for this.

Aaron