This is topic DTS Reader Modification in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 11-25-2000, 02:28 AM:
Brad, you have shown in your pictures that you have a piece of Value Choice between the flywheel and mount to apply a drag on the flywheel.How did you manage to insert that towel and tape so neatly?
Did you remove the Reader from the front and slip it in or remove the flywheel itself?
Thanks.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-25-2000, 09:08 AM:
I only do that when there is excessive projector shaking or a bounce from the payout platter. Nothing needs to be disassembled. Just take a strip of ValueChoice wiper and fold it in half so it is about 3/4 of an inch wide and tense it between two hands and slide it back and forth as you work it in place. Then tape it on the back side and re-mount to the bracket. Tip: the further you slide the folded wiper toward the centre shaft of the large roller, the more back tension you will add. Just make sure you don't add too much tension. There only needs to be just an ever so slight drag to correct for even the worst bounce.
Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 11-28-2000, 09:18 AM:
Thanks. I was noticing my Grinch was reading / not reading the timecode and put a bit of tension on the film as it was going in by hand and had constant reading at that point.Thanks for the information.
Paul.
Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 11-28-2000, 12:58 PM:
If the pay out platter is a Christie...then also try removing that little L-shaped spring/tension/drag thingy inside the middle roller of the Chrisite Brain or Feed plate as they call it I think. It will make a little sag or droop of the film as it travels from the platter to the top guidance hardware feeding into the projector but it will also eliminate or bounce. I would try this first before messing with the DTS reader. At least if there are any projectionists out there that might be getting any clever ideas that might piss of their respective service tech...hehe!Rory
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-28-2000, 01:09 PM:
I recall that Karen Hultgren of DTS recommended NOT adjusting the DTS timecode reader itself (it will void the warrantee), and had several tips for fixing tensioning problems that may cause mistracking of the timecode.Karen???
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 11-28-2000, 01:51 PM:
All the screw in the center of the DTS reader is for is lateral tracking adjustment (and you are correct, it is not to ever be touched), I believe Brad and the others are referring to tweeks that do not alter the tracking adjustment of the reader.Aaron
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-28-2000, 03:03 PM:
The modification I mentioned above does not in any way mis-adjust the dts reader. It only adds just a touch of "drag" to the main roller to soften up any platter or supply reel "bouncing". Paul, yes if you are still running those stupid center brain roller springs remove them. They just cause problems and are only needed if the platter to projector distance is say 20 feet or more apart.
The older black Christie rollers after awhile would start wobbling on their shafts, causing ridiculous amounts of bounce, even with the spring removed. The new green rollers virtually eliminate this problem as well as make threading easier. One word of warning though, if any of your operators in the booth have a tendency of ramming their fingers through the 2nd and 3rd brain roller instead of gently opening that 3rd brain roller with one hand while the film is placed in between them with the other, get them to stop that. That practice alone causes pretty severe bouncing.
Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 11-28-2000, 03:25 PM:
Yes, the lateral adjustment screw should not be adjusted (unless approved by DTS) because it will VOID YOUR WARRANTY. The adjustment is fine-tuned at the factory and should never need adjustment.To find out if it's a reader problem, first try to put a "known good" reader in it's place. If the problem goes away, it's a probably a bad reader. Get a repair/exchange from your local DTS dealer.
If the timecode is blinking a lot, try readjusting the pitch of the aux. roller (black roller to the side of the reader). Adjust it for maximum film wrap. If that does not clear up the blinking (the reader should have a solid light when reading TC), then try adding additional rollers, or perhaps a cleaning roller.
There is a good troubleshooting guide (for blinking readers) on our web site techcenter. It's free to all users. Go to www.dtsonline.com. Click on "cinema", then click on "techcenter" (see on left side of screen). Login (all info you give us will not be shared, for our info only). Then, once in, go to "cinema products". Manuals and troubleshooting guides are posted there for the DTS-6, DTS-6D, DTS-70mm, DTS-6AD, and DTS-ES. You'll need Adobe Acrobat reader (link for download in techcenter). You may print out entire manuals or just section of, if needed.
- For the readers, go to the DTS-6AD section seven.
Let me know if you have any questions. If you forget your password (for techcenter), please let me know.
Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-28-2000, 04:50 PM:
Karen,Try the trick I mentioned above. I can take a poster tube like a baseball bat and slam the film between the platter and projector and with the modification above, there is no blinking of the reader's light. (Of course, only do that with a junk trailer.)
I've found adjusting the roller on the reader and adding new rollers only helps in a situation that is mild. In more drastic situations, it does no real good. The Value Choice modification above adds just a tiny, tiny bit of drag to the roller, effectively eliminating even terrible bouncing issues.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-28-2000, 05:33 PM:
In some theatre that had terrible bounce problems I took old 4 track mag penthouses and mounted the reader where the old cluster was and let a high quality well damped Davis tight loop do its thing
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-28-2000, 05:47 PM:
Another thing I've noticed is to NEVER install a DTS reader below an SDDS "old style" penthouse reader. That damping roller on the SDDS penthouse will cause DTS to drop out.
Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 11-29-2000, 10:45 PM:
Brad, I have removed all the center springs after you first visited.I think that it may be the print because I haven't noticed this before but it may have happened. I'm going to take this down week to add the towel drag to improve the reader read rate.
Thanks to all who have responded.
Posted by Francis Casey (Member # 514) on 11-30-2000, 08:32 PM:
In a 12 plex we opened a few years ago we installed 12 DTS readers , cables etc for use with 2 DTS6D's in roll around carts . NONE of the readers would provide a a steady LED and constant dropouts were a serious problem .Extra rollers etc did not have any effect .Drastic measures were called for ...I dissambled 2 readers and had a machine shop make STEEL replacements for the ALUMINUM flywheel/roller . After reassembly and alignment the added mass of the new STEEL flywheel/roller eliminated all bounce and provided reliable reader operation .
Francis
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-01-2000, 04:29 AM:
Francis,That is an awful extreme situation. Could you please fill us in as to your projector make/model as well as the platter make/model?
Posted by Francis Casey (Member # 514) on 12-02-2000, 07:37 PM:
Brad
The 12 plex had a conbination of new X-90 and Highlight II consoles with PR1060 projectors ; the platters were new strong AP3's with misroswitch control plates . The platters were positioned on the non operating side about 5 feet from the consoles ( top of post to projector feed roller .
Regards
Francis
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-03-2000, 02:00 AM:
That doesn't make much sense. Those newer Strong platters should be putting out a perfectly even and steady feed. Do you perhaps have an SDDS reader mounted with the DTS reader? What all is mounted on top of your projectors?
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-03-2000, 08:57 AM:
I tend to agree with Brad; making steel impedance roller seems a bit extreme.Don't get me wrong.. solving the problem is the important issue, and maybe it was the right thing to do. After all, if having steel rollers made worked, than great!
I'm wondering if there is some other problem that's was causing the readers not to track correctly. The people at DTS might like to know exactly what it was, so they know if their readers are at fault. Maybe the platter or projector manufacturer made some change recently that causes DTS problems.
And now, if one of those readers goes bad, it can't be simply repaired/exchanged. DTS will have to fix *that* particular unit.
Where I used to work (not DTS), we needed a fixture to repair tape drives; it took a while to set up. So we only did it once in a great while. When the pile of broken units got high, and we had a production run of new units, only then would we set up the fixture.
My point is that there may be a delay repairing a DTS reader if you need that particular one back. Also, you might want to permanently label those readers so if one does go bad, someone won't accidently throw it in the repair/exchange pile and lose it.
(PS: I modified a Century JJ2 intermittent one time. You know that knurled lever that opens/closes the intermittent pad roller? I had a "flat" milled on one side. When you close it, it hits the side of the outside intermittent sprocket bushing/support, and scrapes the paint off. A tech didn't listen to me and sent it back for repair/exchange. <sniff-sniff!> So, if anyone sees it, send it home!
Posted by Francis Casey (Member # 514) on 12-03-2000, 09:57 PM:
To Brad and John
The 12 plex has 2 SDDS units also in roll around carts with special mounting brackets on each projector ; the DTS problem was there regardless of weather the SDDS units were mounted or not , the soundheads have basement LED readers for analogue and DD. I thought at first( and sort of still do ) that the projectors were at fault .They just don't seem to run as smooth or quiet as older XL projectors . I tried loosening the belts and then tightening them , i even ordered and installed new belts and soundhead main drive belt pulleys for a couple of the projectors ; none of the above made any difference .If you can think of anything else i should have tried let me know , there are still 10 unmodified DTS readers ( not in use at the present ) .
Francis
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-03-2000, 11:09 PM:
Something is definitely wrong somewhere. Do you have another theater in town you could take one of the dts readers in question to so you can try it out elsewhere? That will tell you if it is a reader problem or not. Unless the readers are defective (doubtful), I don't see anything wrong with the setup that could possibly cause such a problem.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-04-2000, 11:36 AM:
Francis; a few questions, please.If you put tension on the film (pinch the edges with your fingers) just before it runs into the DTS reader, does the green LED stay lit?
Are you using syncronous motors? (you are if you can interlock a print between screens.)
Did you try connecting the extra black-colored ground wire on the reader cable?
Did you ever try removing the special mounting bracket at a projector, and mounting just the regular DTS bracket and reader, and pluging the DTS cable directly into the DTS reader?
I have to admit, the idea of (stainless) steel DTS roller/flywheel appeals to me. While not absoultely necessary, I bet it would reduce those drop-outs that (admittedly rare) do occur.
Posted by Francis Casey (Member # 514) on 12-04-2000, 06:16 PM:
John
Yes the projectors have sync motors , yes i tried adding tension with my fingers and the LED stabilized ;i added extra tension rollers to the reader which did not help, yes i connected the ground wire ( which made no difference ), yes i took a couple of readers to another cinema and they worked fine , no i did not remove the special SDDS mounting bracket .
Regards
Francis
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-05-2000, 01:34 AM:
Hmmmm, this is bizarre. If your readers work fine elsewhere...I wonder about your decks. Any chance of borrowing another theater's dts reader for a day to try with your decks? That will clear up if it is something in the dts system or something physical with the equipment.
Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 12-05-2000, 08:48 AM:
This doesn't make sense....it seems to me that there could be something obvious yet escaping us (film-techers). Did you verify film path and its movement thru those rollers?
perhaps the film isn't entering the reader directly as flat as it should. Maybe its a little twisted while entering? Is there visible or noticable boundce at all?
try the gasket/shim/brake method Brad recommends if it does stabalize your time code for now as he asked you above. I think DTS uses that Mickey Mouse looking configuration of rollers for a reason; to keep the film as flat on the time code reader as possible. perhaps you can try to have your upper guidance hardware feed the film to the time code reader in a fashion that has a roller as close to the DTS reader as possible and located in a manner which will also add more tension...say continuing with that DTS alternating pattern of rollers on the time code reader. It should help if you problem is directly related to film path and movement.Rory