Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Dungeon and Dragons Reel #6 Misaligned

This is topic Dungeon and Dragons Reel #6 Misaligned in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001718

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 12-10-2000, 12:04 AM:

Did anybody find the first few framelines at the head of "Dungeons and Dragons", reel #6 are misaligned. To get a perfect cut one would have to split the film in the middle of the sprocket holes themselves. As reel #6 plays out the lines correct themselves, but when we opened our replacement reel I found the exact same senario. I would argue then that many of the prints out there in Film-tech land are, for the most part, misaligned. Just checking up.

Posted by Michael Cunningham (Member # 210) on 12-10-2000, 04:40 AM:

No, I didn't have this problem with "D&D". Could it be a regional thing due to a specific lab or something like that? Just a guess. Now as for the quality of the film's content, that I had a problem with...

-Mike

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 12-10-2000, 12:35 PM:

I had a problem with a misaligned print a couple of years ago. Can't remember the film, though.

We were in the auditorium screening it and all of a sudden, the picture rises out of frame. Of course, we all turn around to see who's in the booth playing with the framing knob . . .

Stopped the projector to find that the printer actually slipped one sprocket over about 2 seconds of film.

Haven't seen it before, haven't seen it since.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-10-2000, 02:48 PM:

Sounds like the raw stock print film jumped the sprocket on the printer, maybe due to a perforation problem. Would likely only affect one reel, as jumping more than a few sprocket teeth would tear the film. Obviously, ask for a replacement reel immediately.

BTW, D&D is not on Kodak film.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Matt Gardner (Member # 572) on 12-10-2000, 02:55 PM:

I remember a problem like this on the original "Babe" movie. The picture seemed to "spin" off the screen for a few seconds. Upon examining the film it seems that about 2 seconds of film had 3 sprockets per frame. Totally weird. Havent seen it since.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-10-2000, 08:21 PM:

I had a print where the whole image (as it appears on the screen) just shifted right by about a FOOT! There was this nice blank, white line down the side where the picture used to be.

I've also seen the out of frame reels. Often you'll see the Dolby track go wonky, too.

9 out of 10 times it was right before or after (depending on which direction the reel was printed) a lab splice. Sometimes it fixed itself after a minute or two. Sometimes it lasted for the rest of the reel.

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 12-11-2000, 05:49 AM:

Yes, I noticed the exact same thing. But as I recall, after examining it more closely and a little further into the reel, what appeared to be the frameline space actually had a little image in it -- CG flying dragons, I think. It seems like for some reason the live action got cropped, but the CG came out full-frame. Why, I have no idea (especially since the movie is 1.85 and those CG dragons won't come close to being seen).

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-11-2000, 09:46 AM:

Randy wrote: "9 out of 10 times it was right before or after (depending on which direction the reel was printed) a lab splice.
Sometimes it fixed itself after a minute or two. Sometimes it lasted for the rest of the reel."

Yes, a misaligned lab splice might cause the unprocessed raw stock print film to briefly jump off the printer sprocket, causing anything from "brief misalignment" to a tear-out on the printer. Remember, most labs use printers that run close to 1000 or more feet per minute. (e.g., the most popular BHP bidirectional panel printer usually runs 960 feet per minute for release printing):
http://www.lipsner-smith.com/6131e.html

Most labs project and inspect a percentage of release prints to look for defects, but an isolated or brief incident may get missed. Always ask for a replacement reel for something obvious like this.

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 12-11-2000, 11:08 AM:

The theatre I work at got a print that had an out-of-frame lab splice a few minutes into reel 4. And it was made with tape no less. When the other projectionist and I went to fix the splice, we saw that the frame line was even with the sprocket holes, so he had to guess at where to make the cut. Also, the non-soundtrack side of the SDDS track was missing for about 2 feet, and the SRD track was misalinged. Not that affects our theatre, cause we have 3 dts units and this print is playing in mono anyway. But i feel bad for whoever plays this print next, but only if they have SDDS or SRD.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-11-2000, 11:51 AM:

James Hammonds wrote: "But i feel bad for whoever plays this print next, but only if they
have SDDS or SRD."

Even if you aren't using SDDS or SRD, you should inform the exchange and distributor of the obvious printing problem, and ask for a replacement reel. If you "muddle through" with the problem and send the print on to another theatre, they will have to deal with it eventually anyway, so get it fixed now. The other reason is that knowing about the problem will help the lab prevent it from happening again.

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 12-11-2000, 09:35 PM:

yeah, i guess that would be a good idea, but good luck getting our theatre manager to make that call