Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Eastman Kodak 16mm telecine projector

This is topic Eastman Kodak 16mm telecine projector in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 12-19-2000, 10:12 PM:

Ok all you smart people

, how do those 16mm telecine projectors work? Our machines have two blade shutters so I assume it it spins at 1800 RPM. Now, you turn over the motor, an the intermittant will turn over once, pause, then flick over again, and then quickly after. how does it do this? What special gearing is used? I know the intermit has 5 or 6 "wings"

Just Curious

Josh

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 12-19-2000, 10:26 PM:

The most common portable style 16mm telecine projectors use a five bladed shutter, sync motor, and toothed pulleys/tractor belts. They also use a much lower wattage lamp because you're shining the picture into a video camera.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-19-2000, 11:04 PM:

You can take "most" 16mm tabletop projectors that have a "claw" pulldown as opposed to an intermittent movement and install a 5 bladed shutter in them and get excellent results. If the motor is not synchronous, you "may" get a very, very slow flicker bar moving up or down the screen.

Tip: if you can craft a tiny metal rod with a bubble in the middle of it, you can mount it in front of the lamp to rid your video transfers of the "hot spot" and "dark corners". Placement and size of the bubble is fairly critical though. If you've got the patience, it's well worth it. (The actual name for that escapes me.)

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-20-2000, 03:24 AM:

Josh -- what model is yours? It it an Eastman 25 telecine model (oh, you lucky dog!)? If so, it uses a geneva movement (or, at least, the regular Eastman 25 does), not a claw movement. Having never seen the TV version of the Eastman 25, I can't comment on how it actually works...

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-20-2000, 07:26 AM:

A good discussion of 3:2 pulldown to convert 24fps film to NTSC video is on Alan Stewart's "Zerocut" website:
http://www.zerocut.com/tech/pulldown.html

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 12-20-2000, 08:47 AM:

The machines we have are Eastmen 325 or 375, something like that. Anyway, they did have a geneva movement, that I'm sure of. also someone mentioned elseware that if you installed a three blade shutter it would also sync up to TV.
Would that work?

Josh

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-20-2000, 09:52 AM:

I'm pretty sure that the 325/375 is the TV version of the Eastman 25 theatre machine. Like I said, I've never seen one, but it sounds like the right machine.

About the only thing I can add here is that a 3-blade shutter will not sync for TV...I have a pair of Elmo 16CLs (one of which is actually relabelled as a "Kodak CT1000") with 3-blade shutters, and there is a definite flicker if you point an NTSC camera at the screen.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-20-2000, 10:43 AM:

Scott: You're testing my memory (senility is near).

I recall that the Model 25 / Model 30 "clone" intended for telecine use was the EASTMAN 16mm Television Projector Model 285. The EASTMAN 16mm Television Projector Model CT-500, a similar slot-loading model, was introduced in the early 1970's. The EASTMAN 16mm Television Projector Model TV-12M6 was a Pageant "clone" equipped (syncronous motor, 5-blade shutter?) for telecine use.

All nice projectors, if you could get them before television stations scrapped them. Today most film-to-video transfers are made on continuous-transport flying spot or CCD telecines like the Cintel or Spirit:
http://www.broadcast.philips.com/Web/FProductType.asp?lNodeId=278

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-20-2000, 11:36 AM:

Please note that the Model 25 and the rare Model 40 Telecine Eastmans are not down convertable to standard projection without much expense and many parts changes. I can find out for you if you have any intrest but the expense will exceed what the machine is worth.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 11-13-2013, 01:51 AM:

It has been 4710 days since the last post.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 11-13-2013, 01:51 AM:

Wow, this is really an old thread but since I have owned an EASTMAN 30 since 1968 and am pretty well versed on the older Cine & Telecine Projectors I'll give my 2 cents worth. The model 25A EASTMAN debuted in 1950. It as mentioned was a professional projector mainly for large auditoriums, Universities, and even theaters that projected 16mm film. it used an 8 point star and cam intermittent movement. The Tungsten version used a 1000watt lamp but Strong Electric made a carbon arc lamphouse for Kodak especially taylored for the 25. Kodak also supplied a Lamphouse pedastal as well as the Rectifier which all had KODAK badgeing on them. The feed and takeup arms were limited to 2000 ft reels, so if you were showing features than you were going to have an intermission unless you could afford 2 of them for a change over. These projectors weren't cheap, even costing more than existing 35mm equipment at the time. Projection lense was an ektanar 2" f1.5...... and had a 2 blade shutter...The Model 25 was revised over the years to a 25B & C model before their run was over.
The TV version was the MODEL 250; essentially pretty identical to the 25 but used a 5 blade shutter, smaller lense for use in a vidicon camera and a 500 watt lamp. It too incorporated the 2000 ft feed and takeup reel arms. The next Telecine model was the 275 which was pretty much a 250 model but with modified feed arm that could handle 5000 ft reels and a take up reel system that mounted almost flush with the lower cabinet and was operated by a 1/4 hp motor on the inside cabinet. I f you have ever seen the movie "DINER" kevin bacon,mickey roarke, look carefully in one scene at a TV station control booth and you can get a glimpse of an immaculate 275 in the background. They were also painted the Krinkle finish brown that you saw on Kodak's AV projectors like the AV085 and early AV126 models.
The model 285 was pretty much the same, projector wise than the previous 250 & 275 but kodak went to a gilmer style cogged belt for the intermittent instead of the syncronous star wheels on the previous models. Kodak had also modified the Geneva type intermittent movement to achieve a faster pull down ratio for more illumination. This was also incorporated into the Model 30/40 Cine model. The cabintry and controls for the 285 were completely different than the 250 and 275. Ironic that one of these was on EBAY a number of years ago and never recieved even one bid. That intermittent alone cost over 1200 bucks from Kodak back in the 80's parts catalog and that was on an exchange basis. I don't know why I never bid on it, Brain Fade I guess... Anyway thats a small descripition of what I believe IMHO were the finest professional 16mm projectors produced at the time... My Model 30 still runs like new still has the original intermittent and projects a rock steady picture even today....s.m.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-15-2013, 11:25 AM:

On a side note I remember seening a add for a theatre machine made by GPL that had enclosed 5000' macgazines and also a large pedestal devry machine but I dont know if they ever found production

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-15-2013, 06:08 PM:

The Eastman 25 is still the finest 16mm projector EVAR! No holds barred... nothing else even begins to come close! I installed one of the famous Jamed Bond rebuilt Eaqstman 25's at the Lee Library at BYU some years back. Even the director of the film department thought we were running 35mm when he first saw the image. It's still in place to this day running film every weekend as they have a ginormous 16mm film collection that's all stored in a climate controled vault.

On the telecine forfront I never worked with anythig except LW, RCA TP-66 or RCA FR-35B. LW was the worst of the worst.

Mark