Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Will green band-cutting be allowed to continue?

This is topic Will green band-cutting be allowed to continue? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001804

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 01-06-2001, 06:56 AM:

Has anyone else working for a theater that cuts green bands heard anything about no longer being allowed to do that? I REALLY do not like cutting them off for aesthetic reasons (mainly the beginning of the soundtrack also gets cut off) and was going to write a well-worded letter to someone at the company regarding this, but I'm hoping now I won't have to do that (don't want to bug them) if the studios are going to stop the practice.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-06-2001, 08:12 AM:

How theaters present a show is up to each theater. There is no "law" about about keeping the rating, or putting on "R" rated trailers on "G" rated features, or whether to allow in underage kids to a "R" film, etc. The theaters have been "self-policing" themselves to avoid the government stepping in and doing it for them.

However, some recent trailers have gone beyond what some people feel is acceptable, and the goverment has begun to think about regulation.

A theater that really tries to "self-police" themselves and keep within generally acceptable guidelines helps the industry as a whole. No one want to have regualtions forced on them.

I feel you are right: cutting off the ratings (while a minor issue) is poor practise, and is another step towards screwing up the industry for the rest of us by justifing the goverment stepping in.

An old joke:
Q: What is the scariest thing you can ever hear?

A: I'm from the goverment, and I'm here to help you.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-06-2001, 08:48 AM:

The rating bands were put on the preview for a reason. And they should remain on the preview for the same reason. I am opposed to cutting them off. It strikes me as a "cheap shot" by the theater chains and owners if the rating band is removed.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-06-2001, 10:01 AM:

I've always thotught that IF you are going to cut off the bands, you should have a strip and the beginning of your program that says sometning like, "All previews are approved for XXX audiences." (XXX being the rating for that particular audience... "R-Rated" or "G-Rated, etc.)

THEN the theatre should make a policy to check trailers before showing them and stick to it.

I don't see why places like Filmmack couldn't sell that kind of a film strip. It wouldn't be all that expensive.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-06-2001, 12:20 PM:

This topic has been rehashed several times
For our Canadian projectionist members remember that in at least Ontario it is an offense to show the MPPA rateings as they are usually in conflict with the Provincial Film Review Board rateings

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-06-2001, 07:06 PM:

Gordon, I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-06-2001, 10:46 PM:

Gordon;

How do the patrons know what the trailers are rated? Do they post a sheet in the lobby, or do operators have to put on a Provincial Film Review Board rating snipe in front of the trailers?

And, what about the rating that is placed at the end of American films? Does it also have to be removed?

Posted by William Dickson (Member # 314) on 01-07-2001, 11:46 AM:

The way I got our chain to change the policy to allow green bands to remain on was to put a series of trailers on a film where the sound started in the green band and when the vice president of ops. visited I had him watch the trailer bundle. The next day the policy changed.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-07-2001, 01:04 PM:

The film review board issues what are called censor bands for all trailors and features
You cannot put trailors of a higher clasification on than the print
Only poster have stickers attached with the rateings
The MPP at the end of the feature cannot be shown

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 01-08-2001, 04:40 AM:

By the word "allowed" I didn't mean by the government, but if the studios will be doing something themselves to discourage the practice. To me it constitutes altering a film for presentation, and as far as I know theaters aren't "allowed" to cut parts out of movies they don't like. With studios making a bigger deal out of the ratings than they used to, it seems they are going to want green bands shown since they often indicate the rating of the film advertised and have been adding the reasons for the rating as well.
The "Miss Congeniality" trailer is the best example I have right now of looking sloppy with the green band cut off. Not only does the sound start immediately, but there is NO black space in between the green band and the first frame of action, so I had to splice it literally on that first frame. I saved an unused copy of this trailer to show some people from the company the next time they come to visit.
BTW if you don't mind me asking, what chain did you get to change the policy? I know of three US chains that have had this policy, plus I've seen it done other places by people who weren't sure whether or not the green bands were part of the preview.

Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 01-08-2001, 09:27 AM:

Here in New Brunswick, Gordon, there are also carboard bands that are wrapped around each reel with the rating from the Maritime Film Classification Board. These by law must accompany each reel of film or trailer. In actual practice this seldom happens. Trailers almost never have the bands with them and the prints usually don't either. Quite often the bands arrive days or even weeks later.

Regarding the green rating section on trailers and prints: They are American and do not apply in New Brunswick so as often as I can I cut them out and trash them. I always do this on trailers and very often do it on prints.

Posted by William Dickson (Member # 314) on 01-08-2001, 12:30 PM:

Jesse,
If your question about getting the policy changed was directed to me, the company is called UltraStar Theaters. It is a fairly new company which helped make it easier to get the policy changed since I can actually talk to the owners and V.P. of Operations.

Posted by Kevin Crawford (Member # 469) on 01-10-2001, 09:45 PM:

Jesse, for your own sake don't write a letter.

Remember the problems that arose a few years ago, about certain things that were not delivered to the theatre. As I recall, it was asked if the company would fire you. They did not, because what you did was not controlable by the company.

Remember, "Be careful of the toes you step on today. For they may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow."

I do agree that cutting the bands off looks like crap and promotes bad presentation. But don't lose your job over it.

Besides, your theatre will probably be owned by another company soon. And they don't remove the green bands.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-12-2001, 09:20 AM:

IMHO, the MPAA rating tags should be left on for US theatres. One compromise would be to shorten the tags to only a few seconds on the screen, but in no case should any modulated soundtrack be cut off the head end of a trailer.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 01-15-2003, 04:15 PM:

Bump for William Leland III in regards to his Green Band question posed in the THX Trailer Placement thread.

[ 01-15-2003, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Ian Price ]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-15-2003, 06:59 PM:

I'm used to seeing the "evil" green band. But my feelings were hurt when I saw this one:

I guess I just wasn't cool enough. Anyone else out there have the music CD "Rated R" by Queens of the Stone Age? Nifty cover. It copies the early 1970's MPAA ratings design that would appear on the end of films.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-15-2003, 09:28 PM:

A perfect 2.39 :1. What's the font, Bobby?

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-15-2003, 11:27 PM:

Rating frames are too long and too ugly and there is no reason to subject an audience to a string of four or five of them in a row. One will suffice, but logic dictates that even that is not necessary. The rating of the trailer is of no consequence because the audience knows what the rating is of the feature they are about to watch; we never run trailers that are rated more restrictive than the film. So what's the purpose repeating the rating of each of the previews? Does the MPAA assume that [R] trailers will play with [G] films and thus the need to warn the "g" audience? And even if that were the case, what does the MPAA assume will happen? Do they think the "G" audience run out of the theatre or cover their eyes and ears when warned of an impending [R] trailer? That's ridiculous. The rating information about how the trailer was cut is information for the THEATRE, not the audience. The exhibitor needs to know the rating cut of the trailer so as to avoid playing [R] rated previews at [PG] features. We certainly would never run such a combination (as I would hope that would also be the policy of most reasonable exhibitors). So, again, what's the logic of showing a rating relating to the preview if you only program previews that match or are less restrictive than the rating of the film that is about to be shown?

My take on it is that it is enough for the theatre to be responsible to the intent of the rating system by making sure that they are not mixing previews containing restricted material with feature films that are unrestricted. There is no obligation to tell the audience that you are doing what you're supposed to be doing for each and every preview. If you MUST announce that you are being true to the spirit of the rating system, surely a single snipe (as suggested, from Filmack or Pike or Cinema Concepts) stating that "The following previews are rated by the MPAA as appropriate for screening with the rating level of the feature playing in this theatre." At least a custom snipe will be in focus. Or baring that, just use the rating frame on the first trailer and let that suffice to assure those patrons who might be concerned. Besides, aren't 99% of all previews cut to be [G] level anyway? So what's the compulsion to say it over and over and over?! Exception would be if the audio runs into the band (fairly infrequently as far as I've seen) and then, as John says, you don't need 60 seconds of it; only leave enough so that it doesn't look like a mistake.

And with all due respect to the MPAA, let's consider a modicum of aesthetics in this mix. Repeating the same rating frame over and over gets an F in presentation simply because of the repetition. It gets a second F because the image is so often out of focus and looks like a 6th generation dub. At the very least, if the MPAA wants to promote its name, then at least come up with a decent looking frame and supply the production houses with first generation negs or IPs that will result in something I would want to put up on the screen and not hide in the can marked "ugly kaka -- do not run."

Frank

Posted by Dave Callaghan (Member # 1544) on 01-16-2003, 02:32 AM:

If all trailers released in the US are printed with the green or red band, this raises an interesting question - who is reediting these trailers for Canada?

In Canada, it seems like half or more of all the trailers that I see have no MPAA band. They are printed with a short trailer leader that ends with a clear numbered frame followed by 3 feet of black and a soundtrack that starts in silence then fades in the appropriate number of frames in advance of the first picture. This practice seems to be independent of the distributor.

The exception in this case is Warner Bros. Warner trailers are routinely printed with no MPAA band and 15 feet - no misprint, a full 10 seconds - of black and silence on the sound track. Warner features also have the 10 seconds of lead-in black and silence before the first frame of the feature. Even if that feature has digital tracks, the black has an analog only track.

This seems to be a policy of Warner having something to do with on-screen advertising, originating sometime before I started to work for Famous Players for about 2 years at one of their Silver City's back around 2000. Famous had to start running a PSA or policy or some sort of trailer (before my time, so I never ran it) because Warner didn't want any of their trailers or features to be immediately preceded by a commercial. (I saw it in a memo.)

The upshot from a Canadian perspective is that someone is already reediting the US versions of the trailers and adding black and silence - printed, not spliced - so they fade in gracefully following the leader with full sound and picture after a 2 second pause.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-16-2003, 04:33 AM:

What some cinemas do here is to place a title at the start of the trailers which reads 'the following trailers are of an appropriate classification for the feature' or words to that effect, followed by the trailers with the BBFC certificate (which appears at the start of each trailer) removed. As a customer I don't have a problem with this, but am glad that I never worked in a cinema which did it, simply because of the extra work it would generate in removing and then rejoining certificates.

I very rarely had soundtracks starting during the certificate; they were usually spliced on. What I frequently got was an end title saying 'Opens 13 February' with the soundtrack continuing through it. If you were showing the film on second run in May, you'd want to cut it off for obvious reasons, but usually couldn't because doing so would crash the track. In those circumstances I usually closed the douser over that title if I could get to the projector at the right moment.

Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 01-16-2003, 07:09 AM:

As a joke,'The following preview has been UL listed for all audiences
by Underwriter's Laboratories.' is what it should say on the green band. [Big Grin]

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-16-2003, 09:35 AM:

I think there was a discussion about this before...

The problem I noticed that someone mentioned about the green bands is that they're pretty much all differnt. Some are dark green with big text, some are light green with normal sized text, some have the text closer to the bottom (Jungle Book 2 in particular), etc. etc.

If the MPAA would supply the studios with a new, universal green band, they might not be so painful to watch.

=TMP=

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 01-16-2003, 10:01 AM:

Please pardon the Rookie here, but in our theatre I have been told to leave the green band on the first trailer and remove them from the rest. I had no idea the sound for the picture actually started within the green band, although I have noticed and thought odd that the beginning of our 2 weeks notice trailer seems "abrupt". We also have a policy of never putting trailers above PG on any kind of kids movie. From a customer's perspective, I have always been confused by the ratings bands, so it just felt natural when they told me to only leave on the first one. The issue to me is that the band says "The film advertised has been rated...." and then they go into the trailer. When you have 3 or 4 trailers at the beginning of a film and are not keeping track of them (as a customer) it gets foggy as to whether the rating band applies to the trailer that just played, or the one coming up. "Advertised" means after the fact. If they changed the wording to "The following film has been rated...." or "The film about to be advertised has been rated..." that would make a lot more sense. In my humble opinion if you have a bunch of those green bands on there the customers have no idea which trailer they apply to anyway. From a sound perspective on the other hand, I wouldn't want to butcher any of the dialog or music, so I would be inclined from that reason to leave them on.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-16-2003, 10:34 AM:

Don, there is a 20 frame offset between picture and track. If audible sound starts with the first frame of the actual trailer then the sound for it is printed 20 frames ahead of it which puts it adjacent to the green band.

This discussion seems to be concentrating on the band being there to display the trailer's rating (general or restricted). Isn't the real point to display the rating of the film being advertised? Frankly there is too much emphasis on ratings. Ratings are designed for parents to use in deciding whether a film is appropriate for their kids. No one else should ever care one iota about a rating and it would suit me just fine if the ratings were made convenient for parents who seek guidance but not blathered all over everything as though to imply that they should be of interest to others.

Trailers are almost always rated general (green band) yet so many of them come with notes suggesting they not be exhibited before G & PG audiences. One would presume that at some point they will codify this into a third, in-between, level. Anyone want to suggest a color for the band?

As I've said before, the studios could forbid removal of the band if they wished. The trailer is a copyrighted work and they could easily demand it be exhibited intact or not at all.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-16-2003, 11:33 AM:

I would recommend that bright vivid yellow that was used in the Stuart Little 2 trailer. Of course we would probably end up with a dark blah grungy yellow.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-16-2003, 12:42 PM:

Steve,

I figured you would pick up the 2.39:1 ratio thing on that little JPEG doodle (which is why I went to the trouble of getting it right). The evil green band fonts are Helvetica 65 Medium and Helvetica 95 Black. I scanned in a film frame as a guide to get the type and positioning correct.

People complain about the green color, but I don't really mind it all that much. I agree with others about the possible drawbacks of changing the MPAA band to another color. Banana yellow would look really sick in a theater with dim projection.

One thing's for sure. The MPAA Red band on R-rated previews is downright scary. For some reason it makes me think "tornado warning."

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 01-16-2003, 01:42 PM:

BTW the company I worked for ended up changing the policy because (from what I heard) one studio was upset about it. I'm surprised to hear AMC is still doing it though.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-16-2003, 01:55 PM:

So why are there so many different shades of green? Are the various "green band" tags derived from different sources? Is it an issue of film stock or lab work at the intermediate or release print stage? Is it a timing issue with the prints (why can't the MPAA say, for example, "time the ratings band at 31/31/31" or something?)?

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-16-2003, 02:33 PM:

Because every printer is different even if you supplied identical negatives you would need different printer lights just to get the same results.

I would guess that CARA/MPAA does not supply a master but simply describes what it's supposed to look like.

If we're proposing changes I like the idea of arrows pointing to 5% inboard of the corners to show image cutoff or misframing. Or make it 10% to allow for printer direction slop combined with nominal cutoff. To actually put an explanation on there ("If you can't see these arrows you aren't seeing the whole picture") would be nice but would probably piss off too many exhibitors and cause more of them to lop off the bands. But word could circulate among the cognoscenti that this is a way to check on the theatre.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-16-2003, 04:51 PM:

While we're at it, why not make the 'new color' clear/white so that the text "If the edges are fuzzy, this theatre sucks even more." could be included after the 'arrow' text. [Smile]

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-16-2003, 08:38 PM:

Or a representative of Film-Tech visits the theatre when a print is being built and personally splices in a test/demo snipe of medium density containing all the appropriate framing telltales and explanations and also This section of film was perfectly clean and free of scratches when this feature began its run. If it doesn't appear that way now it's because the theatre doesn't handle film well.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-17-2003, 12:18 AM:

And just cause I am in a testy mood, I'll add this: Our policy is to NEVER run the feature rating before the film if some studio is crass enough to stick it on the head of R1. That's just as ridiculous as a string of preview ratings. My audience is advised of the rating of the film long before they get into the theatre. It's on the marquee, it's on the 1-sheets in the lobby before they ever plunk down their money at the box office and it is in the box office title board in the window. What good does it do them after they have paid their money and they are sitting in the theatre? Do they get up and run out in terror? Reality check in the real world -- of course not. All a rating tag before the feature does is ruin my opening protocol -- house lights, curtain warmers, curtain, feature. That's why the Great Lawgiver gave us Neumade splicers.

Frank

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-17-2003, 08:07 AM:

That came up a couple of times last year and I think it was supposed to show that the studio was being dilligent about warning people (as though people would get up at leave at that point). As it is my job to present the film (to critics, typically) exactly how the studio wishes it would not have been appropriate to skip over it. My solution to retain a semblance of showmanship was to run the rating on the closed screen curtain and then open on the distributor's logo as I normally do to best dramatic effect.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-17-2003, 08:27 AM:

I like the single green band in the beginning of the trailer pack idea. Additional green bands is redundant and distracting to the audience. But, our policy is to cut them all off. The only time we leave any amount of green on is when the sound starts in the green. In that case we leave about a 1 second, or the amount needed to keep the sound intact - which ever is longer.

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 01-17-2003, 09:14 AM:

I do remember a situation at our theatre though, many moons ago when "Spaceballs" came out, that it was mistakenly advertised by the theatre as a PG-13 movie. I went to the opening night of it and there was one point in the movie when a bunch of people got up and dragged their kids out, and then after that, when they went to shut off the self-destruct at the end and there was an out of order sign in there, the "F" word had all of the rest of the parents heading for the doors. I thought it was quite funny actually (as a customer) but the correction was published in the paper the next day and all the rating info on the signs was changed.... I don't remember if there was a green band before that film or not, but if there was none of those parents ever looked at it!

Posted by Alex Grasic (Member # 1371) on 01-17-2003, 11:59 AM:

We just received one trailer yesterday for "The Hours" which had a green ratings band on it and the sound track had begun about half way into the ratings band. I had to cut it off but unfortunately, did not have the opportunity to hear what it sounds like on screen yet. Personally, I see the odd trailer with the green band attached on trailers up here but if they're going to do that, they really shouldn't start the soundtrack in the green.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-17-2003, 01:40 PM:

Mark wrote:
I like the single green band in the beginning of the trailer pack idea.

Will all the trailers following this single green band be of the same rating indicated upon it or would you group them by rating and then have a single green band ahead of each grouping?

Alex wrote:
they really shouldn't start the soundtrack in the green.

Well, I can see where that is a problem if you are required by law to remove them. But frankly if that is the case that is a stupid law. The info contained on the band--this trailer approved for general audiences and the film advertised has been rated whatever by CARA/MPAA-- represents factual information and as a matter of free speech it should not be illegal to display them. CARA did give them these ratings. Whether or not that is of interest in another country is another matter. Maybe yes, maybe no. But it shouldn't be illegal to display it.

That aside, if the trailer makers want sound to start with the beginning of the trailer instead of waiting almost a second then there is going to be sound on the green band. I can understand why they don't want to have to wait a second.

Consider this: Suppose there were no green band. Soundtrack pullup would mean sound would stick 20 frames out on the leader. This being a trailer we know that the leader is going to get cut so let's say they take this into account and put 20 frames of black on the start to have that track next to, 20 frames that are not part of the leader. The average platter operator is going to cut that off regardless. So looked at that way having an image there such as the green band acts as protection to keep that sound in the build. It's one way a trailer director can design a trailer with sound on the first frame. The other way is the brief flash of the studio logo.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-17-2003, 02:26 PM:

At the January 15 Inter-Society meeting in Los Angeles, the MPAA representative agreed to explore the possibility of redesigning the rating band to have discrete (1.85:1 and 2.39:1) framing guides and a textured background pattern to aid focusing. Of course, these would help only if the feature rating band was shown just before the feature. One distributor noted that some directors prefer to have the rating band at the end of the movie, rather than before, and might object to this change.

NATO noted that there is some legislative pressure to show the rating BEFORE the film, to inform the audience of the rating one last time before the film is actually screened.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-17-2003, 02:47 PM:

quote:
Will all the trailers following this single green band be of the same rating indicated upon it or would you group them by rating and then have a single green band ahead of each grouping?

It should be a standard "The following previews have been approved for all audiences" and leave it at that. If folks insist on rating info, then add the ubiquitous "For rating information visit www.filmratings.com" (or whatever the site is). That should be sufficient for what amounts to little more than a commercial. Rating info can easily be added to the trailer credits too.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-17-2003, 05:59 PM:

I don't mind MPAA ratings on one-sheet posters, stack ads, TV commercials and the evil-green-band-of-death doesn't bother me at all on the trailers. To me, it is part of the "visual culture" of going to the movies.

However, I certainly don't want the MPAA rating logo stuck right on the front of the movie ahead of the studio logo. That's going too far.

That kind of thing has already been happening on a number of DVD releases. It is on "The Untouchables" DVD for instance. There's a big Rated R logo in white on a black screen on the front of that thing. Hey, I know Robert DeNiro crushes some fat guy's head with a Louisville Slugger while extolling the virtues of "teamwork." I don't need to be reminded this is not a movie for kiddies. The "R" logo is already on the box and on the disc (but not in the proper "R" rated font).

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-17-2003, 06:33 PM:

I think everyone here knows I am a huge fan of the green bands. When I go to a theater that shows them it gives me advance notice of whether the projectionists/managers are projection idiots or not, so I can prepare myself for the experience I am about to enjoy/hate.

Three things...

#1 Is it in frame? Green bands are a great way to help the less-than-adequate projectionist verify the framing is proper. While this isn't much of an issue with scope films, is there ANYONE out there anymore that can properly frame a flat film??? [Mad]

If the MPAA would send out green bands that were hard matted to 1.66 with CLEAR frame lines that had in small lettering "go complain to the manager as your projectionist is not doing his job properly", that would solve most of these framing issues.

#2 Is it clean? If I see dirt and scratches, at least a good 10 minutes before the movie starts I can prepare myself knowing that the theater I am at has sloppy film handlers. I can overlook dirt and marks to a certain point if I have the mindset for it. If the damage is too great, then I can leave before the movie even starts.

#3 Green bands help me feel like I am not watching tv. I really hate the panic speed pace of television commercials, and chopping off green bands brings that feeling to the big screen. [puke]

Now the problem is those green bands that look like crap. Universal used to be the worst offenders here on their scope bands where the right side and corners would be dark, giving the illusion the lamp source was not properly aligned. Occasionally I see slight misframing errors on the green bands too. The biggest thing I am learning to hate is these new green bands that tell you why a movie is rated for what it was. I could really do without the green bands tagged like this:

THE FOLLOWING PREVIEW HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR ALL AUDIENCES BY THE MOTION PICTURE ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA"

...followed by...

"This movie has been rated PG for sexuality, bad language, violence, cow tipping, homosexual rape, tea bagging, beastiality, depicted animal cruelty, child pornography and Lance Bass."

(Seriously, I do wish the MPAA would make one master clean band and give them to the studios free of charge. But PLEASE leave out the descriptive crap at the bottom!)

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-17-2003, 07:24 PM:

Steve it is not stupid to require there removal since they are often in conflict with the rateing applied in different countries. Leaving them in causes much confucion

Posted by Daniel Burns (Member # 1549) on 01-18-2003, 04:42 AM:

At my theatre I personally cut off the green band along with the last cue going through before the blue rating goes through at the end of the credits

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-18-2003, 01:23 PM:

Then how do you deal with trailers that have sound starting on the first frame of picture (and printed 20 frames out on the green band)? Cut that off too? Tsk tsk... Film Done Wrong.

I do NOT want to see the feature rating moved up to the head (as was sometimes the case years ago and has been done a few times recently). It is utterly ridiculous to think someone is going to get up and leave at that point.

More emphasis needs to be placed on the fact that ratings are for parents--the ratings board consists only of parents, no? -- and deemphasize them for everyone else. This is why they're under pressure to create an "A" rating for serious adult movies. When you remind people that it is a service for parents then the current policy makes more sense. With an NC-17 they are essentially saying that they don't care whether the film in question is a serious film or pornography; all they're saying is that the film is not for children and as they are a service for parents there is no need to differentiate any further.

But framing marks on the green band of trailers would be great.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-18-2003, 01:30 PM:

quote:
At the January 15 Inter-Society meeting in Los Angeles, the MPAA representative agreed to explore the possibility of redesigning the rating band to have discrete (1.85:1 and 2.39:1) framing guides and a textured background pattern to aid focusing. Of course, these would help only if the feature rating band was shown just before the feature.

I don't see how this would aid in framing and focusing, since most multiplex booth operators don't hang around until the feature starts. Most leave the machine before the first trailer is done. And since these are the operators that probably DO need the aid, it would be pointless.

=TMP=

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-18-2003, 03:20 PM:

Never to go with the crowd....

I have no problem with the ratings bands on previews or features and feel they are most appropriate at the beginning. At the end, they are worthless since everyone has left. Unlike 1-sheets, boxoffice signs, mini-marquees....etc, the rating strip on the film IS the rating for the film and is less subject to theatrical error. It probably wouldn't offend so many here if it was part of the opening title sequence. I know of one theatre that places the blue band at the head of all of their features. It is truely the patron's last chance of claiming they were not informed. It plays a specified length and if shown at the beginning of the film then only late commers will miss it.

I don't feel that the ratings are for parents only. Some people just don't want to see films that have "adult content" or even foul language...no matter how good the film is (in other people's mind).

Steve

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-18-2003, 07:03 PM:

I'm just reiterating the stated objective of the MPAA.

quote:

The basic mission of the rating system is a simple one: to offer to parents some advance information about movies so that parents can decide what movies they want their children to see or not to see.
...
Indeed, if you are 18 or over, or if you have no children, the rating system has no meaning for you. Ratings are meant for parents, no one else.

Obviously that doesn't stop others from taking an interest, especially if they are easily offended. But people would be better off if they kept the true purpose in mind.

Posted by Mark Maxwell (Member # 1355) on 01-20-2003, 01:09 AM:

I went to a theater in Tyler, Tx that cut out the green bands. To me, it made since to leave them on because it literally says that the following preview has been approved for all audiences, and by who, and list filmratings.com for any questioning. Several times I had been griped at because of trailors that were on certain movies and and I have to tell the customer I have a trailor list to go by, and it was approved by the ratings board. That brings me to a question I want to bring up in a minute. When Jurrasic Park 3 came out, my print had an attached preview for American Pie 2. A lady came out and complained that it wasn't apropriate for her 8 year old son. Apperently she thought seeing Jason Bigg call 911 and saying, "I glued myself too...myself" would be more damaging than seeing people getting eaten by big monsters he might have never imagined before. I had always figured that if a preview came with on a print, they for damn sure wanted it played. I told her that we can't edit a final print. I'm still against it, but does anyone know the actuall policy on that?

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 01-20-2003, 02:25 AM:

The attached trailer must be played with the print it came with, though the consensus on Film-Tech seems to be it is acceptable to place policy and/or sound format trailers in between the attached trailer and the feature. Not playing the attached trailer is a breach of your booking contract.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-20-2003, 02:44 AM:

Mark, when someone complains I always remind them "do you remember right before the preview that green screen that said the following preview has been rated for all audiences?" They of course say "yes" to which I reply "that means that the MPAA has rated that particular trailer G and that there is nothing in that trailer that would not pass for a regular G rated movie."

While I do not promote some of the poor trailer placement sent out by the studios and bookers, this tactic shuts them up EVERY time. [Smile]

...of course you can't use that one if you've whacked off the green bands.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-23-2003, 08:27 PM:

I don't like seeing those green bands. They are garrish. We used to edit them out at all of the American theatres I worked for.

I regarded the red and green bands as a guide to indicate how the trailer might best be programmed. I wouldn't show them any sooner than I would show head and tail leaders.

As it happens, they are irrelevant in The Bahamas because there is a separate rating system here. Previews themselves are not rated locally but it is assumed that if the Americans gave a particular trailer a green band then it must be okay to run it on a similar feature.

Red bands remain intact, however. This is so that they can always be identified as "red-band" if they ever get saved for later use on another feature. Come to think of it, the last red band trailer I ever got was for "Lord of Illusions" and, before that, "Showgirls." Those were ages ago.

As someone pointed out, there is no requirement to run the bands, which means this is a matter of personal (or corporate) taste. I don't believe that school of thought is necessarily more correct than the other.

As for the soundtrack appearing in the green band area -- I sincerely hope that no trailer editor is stupid enough to put anything important in that space -- in any event, that audio will not get heard in my theatres. I think this "soundtrack issue" is little more than an evil attempt to force theatres into showing the awful green band. This is another example of how self-centred the U.S. can be. It is insulting to the people of Canada, The Bahamas and other countries.

~Manny. (An American Original.)

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-23-2003, 08:59 PM:

quote:
It is insulting to the people of Canada, The Bahamas and other countries.

I only get a few a year with green bands on them, so I usually just don't show the trailer at all. The only time I will is if the soundtrack doesn't overlap the band.

Like Brad and others, I also don't like the T.V. commerical effect so I space trailers out with either the usually generous amount of black leader (with silent soundtrack) or add some black leader between trailers.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-23-2003, 09:43 PM:

I like to use black in between them, too.

It's great to hear the commentary from the audience after a trailer.

I haven't programmed trailers in a long, long time though.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-23-2003, 09:56 PM:

Why would you find it insulting? It's not a manifestation of the US government but of the motion picture industry whose product you are playing. I can see your point if you are playing a US trailer for a film produced in some other country but for American films it's simply the rating assigned by a trade group of the companies including the one that made the movie in question. Would you feel differently if the organization was called the Motion Picture Distributors Assocation? I can't see that I would be offended if some anime' movie was preceded by a snipe saying that an association of Japanese filmmakers says this movie should be seen only by those 15 and up. I'd think mmmkay...that's interesting.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-23-2003, 10:09 PM:

It's okay if you don't see it my way. I'm just chiming in with my 2 cents, and I welcome your 2 cents but It's not worth arguing.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-23-2003, 10:16 PM:

Personally I don't find it insulting at all. I'd just like to keep both my projection license and our theatre license, since we could loose both by showing them. OK, I can't loose my projection license anymore because they scrapped licensing in 2001 but I could still loose the theatre license.

Same goes if I can't produce a trailer certificate for every trailer in use and feature certifcate for every feature being shown in the event that a theatre inspector decides to pay me a visit.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-23-2003, 11:03 PM:

I'm not a big fan of the MPAA ratings system, hence my oft stated wish that it be used for parenting only and everyone else should remain oblivious to it. But if its existence has managed to stave off the sort of official government ratings, certificates, theatre licensing, regulations and paperwork etc. you folks have then count me on bended knee before CARA. There but for the grace of Jack Valenti go us. (And due credit to NATO, too for helping to get it going.) It may be lame but at least it's a private industry lame, not a government lame.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 01-24-2003, 01:54 AM:

Steve:
I don't think Manny meant the US government. He meant businesses (& the people who run & work in them) in the US. It certainly does seem like oversight that locations outside the US might not be able to run the mpaa bands. On the other hand, they probably just didn't know that it would be a problem either.

It seems a standard thing. Crap don't work right for what you need out of the box, cuss the manufacturer for not thinking about that, manufacturer remains clueless & whistling in manufacturer-land until somebody has a near stroke and calls them up & says "Dipstick, aren't you aware that..."

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-24-2003, 06:56 AM:

Some links to first-hand information on the MPAA film ratings:

http://www.mpaa.org/movieratings/about/index.htm

http://www.mpaa.org/movieratings/

http://www.filmratings.com

http://www.natoonline.org/ratings.htm

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-24-2003, 09:00 AM:

quote:
Then how do you deal with trailers that have sound starting on the first frame of picture (and printed 20 frames out on the green band)? Cut that off too? Tsk tsk... Film Done Wrong.

Agreed. Which is why we leave them on in those cases - but no more than two seconds or whatever is sufficient to leave the sound intact - which ever is longer. And that trailer is moved to the front of the trailer pack so the green band doesn't end up being a break in the middle. Those trailers are quite rare these days. I think I've seen three in the last six months. Our GM questioned me about that practice, and when I explained why it was there, and he was cool with it. Rarely do we have to bend the rules - but only slightly, and only for the sake of making a better presentation. [Wink]

[ 01-24-2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Mark J. Marshall ]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-26-2003, 02:53 PM:

Back on the 12th, John made a comment that runs close to how we attack this issue; that being to shorten the bands.

Personally, the old programming side of me gets involved here, as applies to esthetics. I don't have an opinion one way or another regarding the content of the bands... people are generally numb to them anyway, and watch like lemmings. However, we occasionally see a parent who will keep his kids out of the auditioum until ALL of the trailers have finished, which while is maybe a little over the top to some, is probably safest if you don't want you kids minds to be mushed by theatrical advertising.

I don't think we're getting nearly as many trailers with the soundtrack in the bands as we used to. I always thought the studios were doing that so we WOULDN'T be able to cut them off without making our presentations sound like crap. It seems that we generally are seeing a couple of seconds of black between the band and the trailer.

Accordingly, I tend to leave a couple of seconds of band on each trailer. To me, if nothing else, it separates individual ads and times well with the black space between the band and the trailer start. To me, this seems a good compromise, as my biggest gripe against the bands always was the interminable length of the darned things... especially once you got to the 4th or 5th one! [Mad]

This seems to work well, as I hardly hear anyone groaning as each new trailer starts... unlike what I see in other theatres, where 10 seconds or so of silent green bands on each of 273 trailers seems to do nothing more than make the audience fidget.