This is topic Film-Techer Titles in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-11-2001, 03:36 PM:
Brad,
I have run into a number of people that would like to frequent this thread but are intimidated, and or put off by the silly titles we all get based on the number of postings we make. A number of these people are old timers with allot of knowledge to share, and allot of great stiries to tell as well. It seems silly to keep them from joining us here.
Many of these people, both union and non-union have helped me in the learning phase of this trade and I am forever indebted to them for what they have shared with me.
Is it possible to change these titles in an attempt to attract some of these people into Film-Tech? If this is possible it would certainly seem worth the effort to do it. Perhaps titles like Operator,Head-Operator, or Technician, are now more appropriate than the silly Star Wars related titles we now get. Certainly the number of postings has nothing to do with how much knowledge of this industry a person possesses. I feel that an attempt to attract these poeple to this site far oughtweighs anything else as Film-Tech is the number one spot for this sort of thing.
I would also love to hear others opinions on this matter.
Thanks,
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-11-2001, 05:02 PM:
I'm actually surprised that seasoned professionals would be put off by the titles. They know who they are and after a few posts it would be obvious to everyone else of their expertise. Just look at John Pytlak. Here's an Oscar award winner who started off as a lowly "film handler". 
Anyway, it's just something fun that was implemented over a year ago and has always been popular and encouraged posting. If this is really a problem, it sounds like it is more of a personal issue with "to be" members, but if such a thing is truly an issue and the members want it abolished, I will remove that part of the coding. However, giving each individual person a specific title would not be easy, so the "titles" would probably just have to go away alltogether.
I'll take the majority vote of the first 50 responses I get here.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-11-2001, 05:30 PM:
I guess my vote is to discontinue the titles, but keep the number of postings a person makes. That way, there's no titles to get worked up over, but people know which members contribute often.I only know of one person who got really worked up over titles.
Personally, I thought the titles were kinda fun, but I did talk to a guy who said something similar; except he thought there was an actual test (not number of posts) to get each title!
It would be nice if each person could put a title of their own choosing, though. Anything they thought reflected a bit more of their own personality. Mine would be: Author of the bestseller; "100 Meals in 2000ft or Less: Cooking with your Ashcraft Easy-Bake Lamphouse."
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-11-2001, 05:49 PM:
I've never thought the titles were anything more than fun. As a matter of fact it has been the subject of many a joke around work when discussing the latest news on Film-Tech.Besides, who can tell you what makes the difference between a "Jedi Master Film Handler" and a "Phenomenal Film Handler"?
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 01-11-2001, 05:59 PM:
I say, leave'em alone.
(wanna-be jedi master)------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
Posted by Michael Cunningham (Member # 210) on 01-11-2001, 06:55 PM:
I would have to say leave them as is. They are just fun and besides, I'm almost to the 100 post mark!...heh. If this is really a problem with prospective members not understanding them, perhaps you could add an explanation to the forums screen somewhere. I remember not knowing what they were about until somebody posted "Hey, this is my 100th post. I'm an expert now..." or some such.-Mike
Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 01-11-2001, 08:06 PM:
So if someone with little or no knowledge replies to every new post with "I agree with what John Doe said" 100 times, then he is suddenly labeled an expert? I'm not sure that I agree with the titles. Or possibly that the titles go up with the number of replies that you post. If I reply to a post that I will participate in a film-tech drink in Vegas, or that I like Beaven-poos, does that make me an expert?I think that just listing the number of posts by your name is enough. As users read the posts, they'll recognize names and have an idea if that person knows whats going on. And hopefully "newbies" won't take the wrong advice from an "expert".
Just my 2 cents worth 
Rick
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 01-11-2001, 08:39 PM:
In the spirit of...
Bruce Lee
2001: a Space Odyssey
The expanding Universe Theory
and the philosphy of "The Great Cricle"
...you could start out everyone who posts as a "newbie" then an "expert" then "jedi master" the "cosmic omnipotent being" then back to "newbie" again.....
Just an idea
------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 01-11-2001, 09:19 PM:
A "newbie, expert, and jedi master" poster, or "newbie, expert, and jedi master" advice giver?
Posted by Pete Lawrence (Member # 130) on 01-11-2001, 09:32 PM:
Jeez, lighten up you guys. Of course they are silly. The sillier the better. If you don't figure out what they really mean after visiting this site a few times, shame on you. My recommendation is for Brad to add a bunch of new categories and reduce the increment between them. Why does everything have to be so serious? Have a little fun!
For John Walsh,
Those Ashcraft lamphouses were the best pizza warmers I've ever used! I have a few other recipes if you ever publish! :-)
Pete
Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 01-11-2001, 09:53 PM:
I am honestly surprised that anybody would get so worked up about a title as such. I would not let a title that was meant for fun control my emotions or let it effect what people think of me. I personally do not judge others knoweledge by the title that they possess and anybody who wishes to not post due their "title" I would find to be insecure. Don't let a title prevent you from gaining or sharing knowledge. That's just dumb. I say leave it. It's fun. .
------------------
--"That's my story and i'm sticking to it!"--
Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 01-11-2001, 10:05 PM:
I'll vote to leave 'em as they are. The titles are just for fun after all.As for evaluating the true "expert" level of a poster, all it takes is a couple of posts to figure out if someone is talking straight or talkin' trash on a given subject. Even the newbies on a given subject should be able to discern that by gauging the reactions of the other posters.
And if someone has doubts about a statement or some advise given in a post, go ahead and post a question about it! The ensuing discussion should reveal whether the subject post can be regarded as reliable, regarded as opinion, or regarded as questionable. 
Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 01-11-2001, 10:45 PM:
Since it was always clear to me that these titles were "earned" only by number of postings -- whether that posting was a question, an answer, a joke, a manifesto, or a single word -- I was never intimidated by them. But since it's true that not everyone may know that, I agree with Pete and others... the sillier the better, and the more titles the merrier. Just a little bit of comic relief from the otherwise staid, somber world of projection....
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 01-11-2001, 10:51 PM:
Keep them as they are now.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-12-2001, 12:09 AM:
Ditto to that one. I enjoy being here and I always get a smile that I'm a 'Jedi'. If it really is an issue preventing others from joining in, yeah...maybe a note on the opening page would do it.My vote...keep 'em.
------------------
"It's not the years, honey...it's the mileage". Indiana Jones
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 01-12-2001, 12:17 AM:
I have to agree with Mark, I am NOT a film handler, nor am I part of the star wars saga!
I am a professional in the service & maintenece business! (Granted, I started from
the bottom as a projectionist) But I think titles pertaining to a person's vocation would allow others to know better who they are conversing with. I can not see how
difficult it would be to tag each member
with their vocation, you have image tags now,
I am all for... Chief Projectionist, Manager
Projectionist, Assistant, Techician, Film collectro, Slave, etc....Just my 2 bits! Keep up the great work Brad!
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-12-2001, 12:42 AM:
The image tags have to be individually hand coded into the program for it to work. An image is a one time thing. Trying to put people's status is another, as many times it changes or people refer to themselves as "tech" when perhaps they are a "projectionist". There are profiles that each person can keep up with on their own, but ideally I think John Pytlak is the best example of what dealers, manufacturers, etc should do. Just look at one of his posts and read his "signature". The forum program is already set up to handle this. All each person needs to do is click on "profile" and enter a signature and check the box to "show signature" when they post. Since I'm starting to ramble, allow me to clarify. My real point to this posting is that the titles themselves can be changed, more can be added, they can be dropped altogether, but as far as giving specific people specific titles, that's not going to be a possibility.
Posted by Sean M. Grimes (Member # 445) on 01-12-2001, 02:03 AM:
coming from a peasant film handler. Keep them as they are. Goddamn.
Posted by Chris Erwin (Member # 176) on 01-12-2001, 06:33 AM:
Just my .02....The titles are no big deal to me, nor do I think it matters much to most people. (though is was cool to reach 100...but I didn't pad my posts just to see "Expert"-I'll let my audiences make that call if I am or not! )If you cruised the posts you could tell who's who.
If there is a problem with them, drop em', we don't need the extra work or worry.
Keep up the good job Brad!
--Chris
Posted by Mark DeLettera (Member # 125) on 01-12-2001, 06:41 AM:
As long as the titles don't reflect on ones' expertise, you may as well keep them and even maybe add a few, just for fun. Being a technician at Kodak I will always be a "Film Handler" (and proud of it), no matter what my title is on Film-Tech Forums. As long as we all remain "FILM" handlers! when we start seeing titles such as "Digital Signal Downloaders" under our names... that's when I'll need to retire! 
------------------
Mark DeLettera
Eastman Kodak Co.
Worldwide Technical Svs.
Rochester, NY
mark.delettera@kodak.com
716-588-4189
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-12-2001, 07:41 AM:
Perhaps there could simply be a note when registering; "Titles are based on number of postings, not actual experince." - or something like that.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-12-2001, 08:09 AM:
John,
Thats my whole point! Several people I have tried to talk into posting and taking part in these threads are a bit put off by the titles, and perhaps rightfully so. These people have forgotten more than we all know! It would be beneficial for all of us, for them to join us here. Personally I'd love to know who out there has 30 or 40 plus years of experience....wouldn't you? For instance, one of these people is a good friend of our modeator. He has signed up, but made very few posts. This person is extremely knowledgable in all aspects of projection and has at least several decades of experience. A couple of others I know also feel the same way. I'm just voicing their opinion for all of you as to why they are not here. Although they may lurk a bit it would be better to have the lurkers take part.
Mark @ GTS
Mark
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 01-12-2001, 08:18 AM:
Mark
Sounds like a not very good excuse for not wanting to post. Think about it....
"I'd post except I don't like those SW titles"
God if it's going to get all stuffy and serious, that might drive off a few who love to be whimsical and light hearted.------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 01-12-2001, 09:05 AM:
Call me what you want, just don't call me late for supper.Actually, I have more of a problem with the new photos. Although I like the pictures, I am having some problems reading posts on the longer threads because the pictures keep kicking the writing down as they load in on my 56K dialup. I think a gallery of thumbnails linked to mug shots might work better, but I know that would be some work for you.
You could reverse the names so that Jedi Handler or whatever comes first. I was actually thinking more along the lines of:
Revered Master of Film Knowledge (1 to 20 posts)
Knows Film (21 to 50 posts)
Thinks he knows film (50 to 100 posts)
Not sure what he knows (100 to 200 posts)
Total blathering idiot! (200+ posts)
Anyone whose been in the business for a while knows that this is the true state of affairs. The more we learn, the more we understand just how little we know. By setting the titles this way, those in the know are least likely to be offended, while those who think they know everything get the ego boost.
Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 01-12-2001, 10:25 AM:
I Vote for Jerry's idea! - just kidding Let's keep the titels as they are.
------------------
Martin Frandsen
Film crazy!, Big 70mm fan!
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-12-2001, 11:11 AM:
It doesnt matter either way as far as the titles go.. Of course theyre silly, but is there anything wrong with having a little fun now and then, especially in this business these days? I also agree with a short and sweet 'disclaimer' to avoid any potential misinformation. Idea #2: instead of a 'film handler' title, the people here that are official or semi-official manufacturer's representatives (John Pytlak, Pat Moore, Oscar N, Karen Hultgren, etc) *SHOULD* have a permanent (doesnt change with number of posts) title of 'Manufacturer's Rep.' so that some newbies might be MORE encouraged to ask questions about tech problems with the aforementioned reps' products.
Aaron
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-12-2001, 11:13 AM:
Actually, I like Jerry's idea, too!Not to beat a dead horse (but I'll do it anyway ), but I'm confused as to exactly what the feeling is....
If the complaint is: "I don't want a 'SW' reference in my title." - then I would say; "It's just joke - don't worry about it."
There's only one title that has a "SW" reference in it; "Jedi Master Film Handler."
On the other hand if the reason is, (the same thing that happened awhile ago) that someone feels their experince should automatically grant them a higher title, having titles like Operator, Head-Operator, or Technician will be a moot point, because the same arguements will apply.
Generally, I think we have alot of fun here, whether or not there are titles - that's why I dont care if they stay or go.
Also, (while theoretically possible) I've never seen anyone "pad" their posts to get a higher title.
Regardless of titles or number of postings, anyone who makes interesting, knowedgable comments has my respect.
For reference, the titles are (I think):
Administrator
Phenomenal Film Handler (This should be the Gordon Award)
Jedi Master Film Handler
Expert Film Handler
Film Handler
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-12-2001, 11:27 AM:
Leave them as they are.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-12-2001, 05:46 PM:
Leave the titles. They are fun.If you are having complaints about the Star Wars thing, then just take out Jedi Master and replace it. How about "Super Duper Film Handler?" Or something like "Total Internet Junkie?"
I do agree that the manufacturer's reps should have some special title, or at least they should be strongly encouraged to put a full business card's worth of information in their signature, the way the Kodak guys do.
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 01-12-2001, 11:47 PM:
Thanks Brad! That was a 'piece of cake!' I think the signature is a great idea, here again to help people know just who they are conversing with!! As for the other titles,
no biigy, I guess I'll just have to keep pluggin away and find more time between work to post on the site!!!------------------
John Eickhof Pres.
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
Posted by George Roher (Member # 91) on 01-12-2001, 11:51 PM:
I like the titles the way they are. Though maybe the highest title in the program should be "John Pytlak's apprentice".
Posted by Dwayne Caldwell (Member # 417) on 01-13-2001, 04:25 AM:
I'm all for keeping the titles. As was mentioned before, these labels are all in good lighthearted fun. True, the primary purpose of this site is to provide a body of knowledge for those involved in, or interested in learning, the technical aspects of the film industry. But imagine the intimidation factor for those new to the industry if the site were plagued by sober calculated professionals that take everything (including playful labeling) entirely too seriously. A newcomer might be afraid to ask even the most trival question for fear of looking stupid. Whereas with the jollity expressed through Flim Yak jokes; sometimes less than serious, but nevertheless informative, postings in the Film Handler's Forum; the various Film Handling Product Reviews that are laced with clever witticisms; and the silly poster titles is a much more inviting and relaxed atmosphere in which to immerse oneself in a wealth of information. I hope that the experts of which Mark speaks will join us despite the foolish titles, because their input is always needed. Don't feel demeaned by the titles, and share your vast experience and expertise with us in this lax and comfortable environment that is Film-Tech. Okay. I'm getting off the soap box now. Thank you.
P.S. We also have a wide array of cool smileys.
.
------------------
The man with the magic hands.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-13-2001, 06:17 AM:
I like Jerry's idea, too. The "Manufacturer Rep" idea is nice, but it might upset the lawyers and discourage participation in this forum if all of their words can be taken to be the "official" position of their employer.
Honestly, I don't see what's wrong with the current system. Of course it's silly, but so what? I can't understand why anyone would have a problem with something as trivial as a "title." I mean, it should be pretty obvious from an individual's posts whether that person actually knows anything or whether he is just being a pest. Why should there be any need to validate one's knowledge and experience with a silly title?
Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 01-13-2001, 07:25 AM:
I'd say things are fine as is.
Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 01-13-2001, 12:00 PM:
And while we're having this seroius debate, Martin Frandsen is sitting down there, in the smallest of my auditoriums, -doing nothing - eyes as big as windmills, jaw on the floor, staring at Charlies little angels.
Just hope, he'll stop drawling before entering the booth again after the show.Late, but well ment: HAPPY 2001 to all film-tech'ers
Per
P.S.: I wote for quittin' the titles
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-13-2001, 12:22 PM:
I guess I'm in the pool of dropping the titles. It doesn't bother me that much either way. I don't know if it is stated anywhere just what they are and how they are obtained. Perhaps on the "forums" page it should list the possible levels based on posts.
Oh, and I seem to recall early on that I might have padded my posts once or twice with a blatent "don't mind me, just increasing my post count" or something to that affect in the same vein that the titles are silly too.
I would put my vote in the "leaning" category...not a strong feeling either way but leaning towards dropping the titles.
Steve
------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 01-14-2001, 03:47 AM:
Hmph.
I like having the titles. They are fun.
I'd say keep 'em!Of course, I'm aspiring to be a Jedi Master Film Handler - me being the SW nut that I am... Never mind that Sith Master Film Handler would probably better suit this booth wench!
Heh, if anyone wants to see a message board that is truly jammed with posts... head over to The Bounty Hunter's Guild Message Board! In about 7 months, over 12000 posts!
~GLB
------------------
In some cultures, what I do is considered normal.
Posted by Scott Balko (Member # 438) on 01-14-2001, 08:03 AM:
I've got no problem with the titles. I'm not a theater operator or manager or anything. Check my number of posts. I lurk more than anything just because I'm a collector and just learning about this whole film thing (and loving it ) Keep the titles. It only took me a couple of visits to the forum to figure out that they were just for fun. I wish I could figure out more things that fast. 
If somebody doesn't want to post just because of the titles, then they don't really want to post.
Posted by Francis Casey (Member # 514) on 01-14-2001, 10:19 AM:
Hi ; I thinks the titles are silly ; but i also think they should stay , we don't want to become too stiff nosed around here . It is also a good idea as others have said to perhaps have an explaination of the titles on the forums page .
Keep smileing !
Francis
Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 01-14-2001, 11:33 PM:
Now I find out how these titles came into being! I hadn't even realized that they are earned on a 'posts posted' basis.. LOL..I could really care less about the titles, as long as mine has no reference to being a Jedi... ;-)
I'll stick to being the subservient company slave who "does it all". It truly would not matter to me what title there was beside my name. I didn't join for a title status, I joined to learn more about my trade, and possibly to help someone else out as well. I's like ot think that I have helped someone, somehow since I joined. If not, maybe I can one day.. I've already been helped several times so my posts have paid off for me already... Again, that's why I joined... not for a title..
Keep em.
Your milage may vary.
------------------
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!
Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 01-15-2001, 01:43 AM:
I like the nicknames, I haven't been on this site too long but it seems to me that everyone knows how good everyone else is. It doesn't take a fun jedi nickname to make you a good Film-Handler.
Posted by Paul Cunningham (Member # 501) on 01-15-2001, 07:17 AM:
I like the titles as they are. I also like the idea of company reps having separate titles.
I do not like the idea of operator, booth manager or location technical manager titles as being a gauge of someones experience. Sure some 'suit' may be the manager or head projectionist but does that mean they know more than a normal projectionist with 40 years experience?