Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Wouldn't You Like To See The Booth Some of The Bad Prints Came From?

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 01-19-2001, 11:32 PM:

We received our print of Remember The Titans Thurs. morning. Inspection revealed this to be the 6th print previously at the same theatre. Deep base gouge dead center of the image (deep enough to catch with a fingernail) and light but visible curved horizontal scratches along the inside edge, all end to end. I'd like to visit that theatre just to fix their problem so I won't have to request so many replacements. The replacement was even worse--FOUR wide base skid marks one of which was thru the DTS AND the optical tracks. Print 3 is on the way. YIPPEE for Technicolor quality control!

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 01-20-2001, 12:39 AM:

Technicolor SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-22-2001, 06:07 AM:

Bill properly places the blame for the print damage on the previous theatre, which evidently has a reputation for damaging prints. It's unlikely that the distributor paid for full print inspection services, so Technicolor Entertainment Services would not normally find this type of damage between bookings. In other words, don't blame TES.

When careless damage like this is found during makeup, report the details immediately to both the distributor and the film exchange. This is usually the only way that blame can properly be placed on those who caused the damage.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-22-2001, 06:17 AM:

Bill, was the print circuited directly from a nearby theater? If so, then John is right in saying that it is not TES's fault. However, if it came in with "integrity inspection" stickers on the reel bands...it is their fault.

So which senario are we talking about?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-22-2001, 07:39 AM:

AFAIK, "Integrity Inspection" just means that TES verified all the reels were in the cases. At most, they check the leaders and first few feet of film. Distributors RARELY pay for a full inspection, which would include winding through the entire feature to look for damage.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-22-2001, 02:19 PM:

If the prints have bad scratches, that should be very evident in the first several feet. I have asked numerous times and know someone who used to work there through a friened of a friend, and all say that an "integrity inspection" DOES require that the first 10-20 feet be visually inspected. Generally I will agree that most damage in a given reel (not counting a possible brain wrap or splice that broke during a show) will happen right at the reel changes anyway, so that sort of a quick glance should give some idea of the condition of the reel.

From his inspection of this being the 6th print to arrive from a certain other theater, it was probably a circuit though.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-22-2001, 05:59 PM:

Report damaged prints, certainly, but what happens when the people you report them to don't do anything?

I had a print of 'Suzhou River' on crossover today - the whole print was virtually swimming in projector oil. Someone's projector must have vomited almost the entire contents of its cross box onto that print.

This is the third print I've had since December with that sort of damage. All three have been arthouse films, with limited number of prints and so do most of their transport on crossover rather than going back to the depot first. I'm convinced that there is one venue somewhere which is causing this oil damage, but the boxes never tell you where the film has come from, so I can't be sure.

Anyway, I ring up the print transport manager at our head office and the film's distributor whenever I get one of these. But the problem hasn't stopped. I'm sure they think 'some anal projectionist is whining about a trivial little problem' and consign my faxes to the small round filing cabinet on the floor.

So, like Bill, I'd like to track the culprit down myself, pay them a visit and explain to them the problems caused by allowing their projector to vomit oil all over the prints in their care.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 01-23-2001, 07:01 PM:

Last year I made up a print of "Cider House Rules"- I knew something was up when the cans said it was 7 reels long but only contained 6! The end of the 5th reel didn't match the frame left on the tail, and upon checking reel 6 I saw they had just cut the film in the middle of a scene when the reel was full and put the rest on the previous reel! The cans still had a label saying which theater had it last (it was several states away) I felt like calling them up and yelling at whoever broke the film down, but I restrained myself.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-23-2001, 08:57 PM:

>>...it was 7 reels long but only contained 6! <<

I had a print of 'Scream' that came to me on 6 reels instead of 7, and I remember having run it before that it was a 7-reeler, I had the manager on the horn to Technicolor before I realized that the jerk before us had spliced reels 6 and 7 (7 is about 4 min in length, all credits) and the print left us in its original configuration...

Aaron

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-24-2001, 01:53 AM:

On the topic of "prints arriving on fewer reels than they should have," I got a print of Gone with the Wind where R7 and R8 (both of which are really short) arrived on a single reel, making the film a 12-reel movie rather than 13. To make matters worse, _none_ of the reels had head and tail leaders and the print was generally in terrible condtion.

Ugh.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 01-24-2001, 03:22 PM:

More on the saga that started this thread. Print 3 was requested Thurs. evening and was supposed to arrive sometime Friday but before our 7:15 showtime. It didn't show by 9:00. Called TES, they had Airborne track it--LOST. Print 4 shipped by TES Sat. morning arrived Saturday afternoon at 3:05, not carried by Airborne. Print 3 was finally located by Airborne and arrived Tuesday at 5:15 pm. Refused. TES, seems to have done all they could in trying to get a print to us short of sending a courier to hand carry it. A turd for Airborne, I would say bomb but you can't say bomb about an airplane.

Posted by Dwayne Caldwell (Member # 417) on 01-24-2001, 04:23 PM:

While we're on the subject of print cans that have been short changed, I remember one time when working at a dollar theatre receiving a print of Deep Impact on six reels and realized later that the last reel was labeled reel seven. So I checked it, and I was missing a reel two. It didn't occur to me at the time to be suspicious that all six reels were completely full. So I ordered another reel two when I couldn't track down the one from the previous theatre.

I arrived at work the next day and my second in command told me he put the replacement reel on early that morning when it arrived, ran the first show, and got complaints that the customers were watching a part of the movie twice. Oh the perks of working a second run.

------------------
The man with the magic hands.

Posted by Robb Johnston (Member # 239) on 01-31-2001, 07:16 PM:

I just had the worst print condition problem two weeks ago. One of my projectionists called me when he noticed dampness on the reel cannister for reel 4. Further checking showed water in the film can which had been absorbed by the all 3 reels. This was found at 6 pm on Thursday, and there was no spare print in the area and we ended up losing the first two shows on Friday.

Oh, by the way it was The Gift, which was not a Technicolor print. What is this world coming to.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-01-2001, 05:57 AM:

Robb:

The gelatin in film emulsion is closely related to protein-based glues. Once a roll of film gets wet and dries again, the convolutions stick together and the emulsion and base will delaminate if you try to unspool it.

A short length of wet film can usually be salvaged by stringing it out in the air to let it dry (How long is your projection room? ). Obviously, keep the wet film away from a dirty area, or the dirt will stick to the wet emulsion. If a full reel is flooded, the best way to save the film is to keep it submerged in cool, clean, chlorinated water, and send it to a film laboratory for a "rewash" process and drying. Don't let the wet film dry out while still in roll form, or you'll never get it apart again.

Posted by John Schulien (Member # 215) on 02-01-2001, 10:50 AM:

A couple of months ago I was at a friend's house and he accidently spilled a glass of water onto a reel of 16mm film. After a few minutes of high-level panic, we towel-dried the film as much as possible, put the reel on a set of rewinds, and applied a HEAVY coat of filmguard. (sprayed it directly on the film pancake, sprayed it on a cloth, rewound through the cloth a couple of times to get the film good and slimed up.)

Then a few days later, we wiped most of the filmguard off with a clean, dry cloth.

It appears to have worked. The film didn't stick together and runs just fine with no signs of damage. If we didn't have the filmguard I doubt that film would have been saved. The only other option would have been to try and unstring and air-dry 1600 feet of film, and we had nowhere to do it.

Just something you might keep in mind if you have a similar emergency ...

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-01-2001, 04:34 PM:

If someone has a reel of film that gets wet, maybe they could run it through several interlocked projectors.

I mean, they'd have to think it out, first. Maybe blow clean compressed air on it to get most of the water off, maybe a film cleaner (with Film Guard) at the end. Then, wipe out the projectors and any rollers it passed through, etc.

Hey, I know it's not the best idea (sending it back is.) But, if you can't for some reason...

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-01-2001, 09:08 PM:

I think you would have a total disaster on your hands if you tried to run wet film through your projector (s).

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-02-2001, 05:52 AM:

Paul is correct, the wet gelatin would quickly build up on the hot gate components, and the soft emulsion could be scraped off the film.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-02-2001, 10:35 AM:

Opps! I'd better withdraw the suggestion. I remind myself of the expression: "If he had half a brain, he'd be dangerous ...!"