This is topic Simplex Oil/Lube Questions in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Dennis Tichy (Member # 709) on 01-27-2001, 05:38 AM:
I have a can of Simplex Sound Head Oil. Can I use that oil on both the projection head and the sound head of my Standard. Are there any substitutes for Simplex oil? (How about SAE 30 non-detergent Motor Oil?) What would be a good schedule for oiling the machine. And what about lubing the Standard. Is there a substitue I can use for the Simplex lube. How much do you use and how often? Finally, does anyone have the phone numbers of suppliers who deal with hobbiests? It seems that some of the suppliers I contact are reluctant to deal with people who do not own theatres.Thank you for your help. You film-tech regulars are the greatest.
Dennis Tichy
Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 01-27-2001, 07:26 AM:
Dennis, Wolk in Chicago will sell to us small timers. I've purchased lubricants from them, just give them a call and your plastic money and it on UPS the next day.
http://www.edwolk.com/
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-27-2001, 08:17 AM:
Don't use soundhead oil in the picture head. It's too thick and will likely damage something. (Someone else will be able to say _why_ this is bad, but I've just been told to Not Try That by people who know what they're talking about.
As for oiling schedule--if it's anything like the Super Simplex, you pretty much need to oil it all the time. As in, every couple of reels. Just add a few drops to each of the oil tubes, and you should be all set. As long as the intermittent oil is filled about halfway up the glass, you don't need to fill it, but you should probably change the oil at least once or twice a year by draining it and re-filling the intermittent.
I don't know about Simplex lube. I've used Century gear grease without problems on a Super.
With respect to dealers, I've been happy with Cardinal Sound in Beltsville, MD. and Boston Light and Sound in Boston, MA. There are probably many others who will deal with hobbyists as well. Actually, I'm surprised that you've had difficulty in finding a dealer who will sell to individuals...I'd think that any dealer should be happy to take your money...
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 01-27-2001, 08:45 AM:
Do not use motor oil in any type of prjector. It is to thick and it is a patrolium base not a synthetic base. It will work in a car because the engine heat thins the oil. You do not have that in a projector. The old drive-in I worked at used older model simplexes and we added drops of oil before we started each feature. I can't remember the type of lubricant we used to grease the gears.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-27-2001, 03:07 PM:
I prefer to use LaVezzi oil. Wolk stocks it in Quarts and it is available in gallons too. A bit on the expensive side but it is about the best projector lube there is on the market. It's a synthetic, and does not dry up. It also has a special additive that permeates the metal a molucule or two. This is best used in a brand new machine or after an overhaul. Any trace of regular oil will reduce its effectiveness. I have used it in just about every projector out there. Its all I will run in any DP-70 or AA-2.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-27-2001, 03:32 PM:
I don't think synthetic oils were around when the Super was invented
The list I have from one of there bullitens from the 50's was
Simplex Sound head oil SAE40 non detergent
SImplex projector oil (super/e7) SAE20 non detergent
Simplex XL SAE 10 non detergent
Century and Pro35's Prevost all are SAE20
Gaumont Kalee/Hortson is SAE40
Motiograph AA is SAE90
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-27-2001, 03:37 PM:
As some of the gentlemen said, don't use motor oil of any kind in the projector head. However, I have used Capella (refrigeration compressor oil) in the projector heads for years without any problems. There are about 2 or three viscositys out there - use the lightest possible.If you are running Brenkerts, don't use Simplex oil unless you are in a bind. The Brenkert oil is very thin, and it will lubricate the shutter shaft bushings, etc. much better than Simplex oil will.
I have used aircraft hydraulic fluid in Brenkerts, and it seems to work ok, but I don't know in the long run how it would react. But it seemed to be better than Simplex oil. However, to be on the safe side, don't dump any oil in your projector head unless it is recommended by the manufacturer. Correct oil is cheap as compared to the cost of rebuilding the movement. 
Paul
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-28-2001, 12:04 AM:
Gord,
LaVezzi Oil was actually specially formulated for the Ultramittant which utilizes a Super Simplex Star and Cam. I have used this oil very sucessfully in all types of projectors as it has very superior lubrication qualities as compared to other regular projector oils. Intermittents will simply last longer with it, its just that simple! I have actually had intermittents with a slightly noisy pin quiet down after a couple of days runs with this type of oil.
You can quote all the oil weights and projectors you want to but you really only need to have this one type of oil around. It's also great for Simplex/RCA lateral guide rollers in sound reproducers. The stuff does not evaporate and hence does not turn gummy and cause the lateral giude rollers to stick.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-28-2001, 12:10 AM:
Speaking of lubricants has anyone out there tried mixing Marvel Mystery oil with regular projector oil. Many cinematographers use a 60/40 mix of Marvel and mineral oil to lubricate expensive camera movements. I have used this in my VV camera and it works great. The thing I don't like is that it does dry up. However these movements get oiled every 2000' and also get service quite regularly so evaporation hasn't really been a big factor.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 01-28-2001, 06:39 AM:
Speaking of oiling Simplexes, I finally got the furnace in the garage (er, I mean, booth) working yesterday, so finally got to change the oil-pump take up to the reverse (drive-in) operation (when's the last time anybody did that?). To my (somewhat) surprise and delight, it works! Constant oil bath. These machines as far as I know always used Simplex oil and are as quiet as can be. How often do you oil SH-1020 soundheads and to what level? I just keep putting a bit in the tube, should this be kept "full"? Thanks.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-28-2001, 03:06 PM:
Mark, there was a booth I ran relief operator in Oakland, Ca. The projectors were Simplex E-7's, and the regular operator used a concoption of Marvel Mystery Oil with Simplex oil. It was very impressive how easy it was to roll forward by hand, not to mention the run-down time of 30 seconds or more. The machines ran trouble free for years, nothing seemed to wear out, other than sprockets, pressure pads, etc. The projectionist that used that was using it for many years in his machines, and never lost a movement or any gears. In fact, those machines were so quiet, all you could hear was the shutter moving air. Loop noise was so minimual you would never know it was running film. It was the old UA theater on Telegraph Avenue, I think....Been a long time.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-28-2001, 03:21 PM:
David, A suggestion for the Soundheads only:First, when you check the oil level, make sure you break the vacuum lock, and wait a minute or so for the oil to settle. Since you are dealing with 30 or 40 weight non-detergent motor oil in the soundheads, and if the level is low, you might have to force feed it with your oil can.
I found the best way to get the correct oil level is to literally over-fill it, and let it sit over night, and the excessive oil will leak out into your cookie pan (or whatever) you have under the projector. Then the next day, make sure you break the vacuum lock again, let the oil settle once more for a few minutes, and make a note of where the level is in the sight glass. Then run your level about a sixteenth of an inch or so below that.
There have been many gears lost in the soundhead because the projectionist did not break the vacuum lock proir to checking the oil level. You break the vacuum lock by simply lifting the cap on the oil tube, or with the RCA sound heads, just loosen the cap so air can get in, if so equipped with that type of sight glass/oil tube.
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 01-28-2001, 04:35 PM:
I would take Paul's advice! NEVER use a parafin based oil in a projector! IE: Motor oil OF ANY KIND! The tolorances are such that parafin will build up and dry out the bearings / shafts. Thus, galding & bindups will occur! Capella (Texaco) Type G was originally the oil supplied in Simplex containers since 1913, (It was 7.5 weight, WAX FREE oil) Unfortunately, about 15 years ago, Texaco stopped the 7.5 wt, they now sell
Capella WF-32 (ISO 32 wt, about 9 wt) This is IDEAL for intermittents of all types, as well as general projector head lubrication. Wax free oils do not tend to attract dust. The soundhead gearbox oil is Capella WF-100 (100 ISO or 30 WT) La Vezzi's oil is great! But your local Texaco jobber can supply Capella WF 32 or 100 at about $8.00 / GALLON! It was always specified in Simplex, Century & other manufacturer's instructions to use a wax free oil. I too have seen Marvel oil mixed 20%-80% with WF-32 and I have seen 30 wt NON DETERGENT mixed 60%-40% with STP used in RCA & Simplex soundheads, with GREAT RESULTS! ------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-28-2001, 05:03 PM:
Of course one must take into consideration that the better synthetic oil will get you much longer life from the very expensive components in your projectors. For instance, using cheap oil is not a payback for the cost of rebuilding an intermittent, or say replacing a verticle shaft in a DP-70.
Mark
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 01-28-2001, 05:59 PM:
Too much is better than not enough! Thanks for the advice fellas. The only oils I have are Simplex Projector & Soundhead oils, so I should be okay.?
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-28-2001, 06:24 PM:
David, I would think so. Just stay within the guidelines John suggested.
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 01-28-2001, 10:28 PM:
Mark, Yes, the advantages of synthetic are good when you consider it being contained for exrented periods of time, however, as you know, drop-by-drop oiling daily in older machines tends to use a larger amount of oil
as opposed to contained oiling systems, thus if you follow manufacturer's recommendations and change the oil in intermittents every 6 months rebuilds are quite seldom as metal / build up deposits are eliminated, using synthetics for long periods of time do not allow flushing of damaging materials, thus wear will naturally occur too. It's like changing the oil in an aout engine every 3000
miles with petrolium oil and removing the hydrocarbons and other pollutants every oil change, it has been proven that oilchanges on less frequent intervals with synthetics have indeed caused more wear by retaining hydrocarbons in the lubricant. So, it actually is a waste of money and material to use synthetics in a device that the lubricant
is allowed to flow out of like open 'oilite' bushings in projectors. I say keep the original style oil as long as you are hand oiling anyway, its just as effective and
a lot less expensive! All manufacturers (except christie) recommend intermittent oil changes at regular intervals! That's why most old style intermittents are still running and a large number of 'ultramittents' break down within two or three years of use! Sorry, but I hold fast on this by experience....even Motiograph recommended changing lube twice a year! I can't expect even the best synthetic or regular oil to last indefinitely without some failure as inevitable!------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-29-2001, 04:33 PM:
John,
While I definately do not reccommend using it in a projector that has seen years of standard oil, as this type of machine already has seen the effects of using the standard oil, I do reccomend it in a machine that has been completely rebuilt or in an intermittent that has just been overhauled, even in a Super or E-7!. Once you understand the advantages of synthetic and take into account that the LaVezzi Oil permeates the metal which regular oil does not it only makes sense. Since there is so little oil in most machines, regular oil will tend to break down before the three months oil change is up, especially when running with larger lamps. There may be an exception to this in machines that hold a quantity of oil like say a DP-70. Here, regular oil will last longer, and take longer to break down due to the quantity, but most machines, and or movements only hold several ounces. Here, synthetics go much longer before they break down or start to get acedic, sometimes it can be 3 to 4 times the life before this breakdown starts. I still advocate changes at regular intervals even with synthetic as specified by the manufacturer. However in the case of using synthetic over regular oil the difference in wear between normal interval changes will be far less than with using regular oil. Also coating all parts before re-assembley with synthetic makes working on it much easier in the future as it will still be there and allow the parts to slide apart easily.
Mark @ GTS
Machines that I have used it for a long time in.......
XL's, 35mm and 35/70
Simplex E-7
Norelco DP-70/AA-2
Kalee
Century
Cinemeccanicas
Bauer U-2P.S. When I had my Dodge V-10 I got an extra 2.5 to 3 mpg just by switching to synthetic!!
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 01-30-2001, 08:02 AM:
Every time I fill my Simplex XL will oil, it just seems to "bleed" all over the basement floor. I have to keep a 5 gallon bucket under the soundhead to catch it all. I've replaced the gasket on the gear cover, but to no avail, it keeps bleeding out. If I remember correctly, it's leaking from the main drive gear? Any suggestions?
------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-30-2001, 08:17 AM:
Barry,
You are probably overfilling it and having it run past the drive gear. An older X-L doesn't hold much oil!! Same with the SH-1000, only several ounces. Be careful because if you are projecting on a level throw with it at home it may not oil well. Be sure to get the oil intake screen down so it is almost touching against the bottom of the casting. The intermittent should receive oil at about a drop a second or a little faster after the machine has been running a few minuites.
Strong makes a seal kit that replaces the bearing retainer with a retainer that has a shaft seal. These usually cure the leakage but not always. If you get one you need to tel them you are using an SH-1000 so you get the correct drive gear with the kit. Another spot that can leak big time is the oil level gauge. Take it apart and clean it up well. Replace all the rubber parts but before you re-assemble it take the glass and polish the end that contacts the rubber gasket. I have seen some really poor glass cuts that were very rough and would'nt seal up well. Also install a new sight glass to case gasket and coat it with silicone blue before you install it but make it a thin film, not too much goo here as you can plug the oil inlet to the gauge. If you don't coat the gasket it may act as a wick. I always hated these sight glass assemblys!! They are usually a constant drip source and neusance. Strong went the right direction when they decided to install the Yamaha oil sight glass on the operators side and the seal kit as it increased the oil capacity of the machine by about threefold.
I usually offer my customers two choices on rebuilding an X-L. I can install the Yamaha sight glass or machine the casting at the front for an "O" ring instead of the gasket. Either of these cures the leaks completely.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Harry Robinson (Member # 265) on 01-30-2001, 08:27 AM:
I've been using Cinema Products projector oil and Century Gear Grease in my Super Simplex. Because I am still in the process of doing my set up I have never run a full-length feture. My question is: Exactly how quiet is quiet when it comes to an old Super? I've heard the "purrs like a kitten," type comments for over a year now.Though my projector isn't what I'd call loud, there is a little whine in it. The local tech, Mack Williams, says it sounds like a worn gear all the way in the middle of the upper section of the projector head. You can just barely see it when you look in the gear side. According to him it doesn't appear to be all that worn, and with the amount of use it will get from a hobbyist it could last decades. Does this seem to be a reasonable assumption? After all, I have a lot of time and effort invested in this thing. I wonder if it's worth doing a rebuild.
Posted by Jack Culpepper (Member # 724) on 01-30-2001, 11:39 AM:
I HAVE A SIMPLEX X-L PROJECTOR ALONG WITH AN RCA 9030 SOUND HEAD. A TECHNICIAN WHO HELP ME SET UP MY SCREENING ROOM TOLD ME THAT A GOOD LUBE MIXTURE IN THE PROJECTOR WAS SIMPLEX PROJ. OIL MIXED WITH MARVEL MYSTERY OIL. FOR THE SOUND HEAD A GOOD QUALITY 10W-40 MIXED WITH MARVEL MYSTERY. HE RECOMMENDED A CERTAIN RATIO MIX. AFTER 8 YEARS THE SYSTEM SEEMS TO STILL BE WORKING EXCELLENT. IF THIS DOES NOT SOUND O.K., I WOULD APPRECIATE SOME ADVICE.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-30-2001, 11:47 AM:
Barry, I agree with Mark. Another thing that may have happened is someone used a mounting bolt that was too long and may have fractured the main casting of the projector. Another thing to look at is the non-operating side gear cover itself. Through the years, the slots get so distorted from over-tightening that it is impossible for the gasket to seat properly. One question, though - after the machine sets over night, how much oil remains in the machine? Does it all drain out? If so, I would suspect a fractured casting, or the sight glass leaks like the devil. Harry, that gear is a booger to change. If it doesn't seem to get any worse, probably is just best to leave it alone, and just keep it lubed. Are you absolutely sure that is where the gear whine is coming from? Is there a chance you could have an RCA gear driving a Simplex gear? They really will whine. Also, if it is the gear you suspect is whining, it may have been due to running in grease too long. Every gear I changed in a Super or E-7 was greased. That should say something...
Jack, I question the 10W40 oil you are using in the sound head. It may attack the rubber on the rag coupling, but I am not too sure on that one. Also, it could attack some of the wiring you have in the sound head, too.
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 01-30-2001, 12:05 PM:
I hear ya Barry. Since I have no experience with this stuff, I always overfill and then use my XL's "self-adjusting oil level" feature! Also, because of the slope at the theatre they came from, they operated nearly flat. When I got them home, I noticed that the oil bath was okay on one machine, fairly intermittent on the other (because of a slight slope on my garage floor). So, I installed the drive-in kit, to essentially move the oil take up from the front to the little "sump" (?) right behind the vertical shaft (?). Now I've got lots of oil in the mechanism (and on the floor!)!
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-30-2001, 12:24 PM:
Dave, try lowering your "self adjusting oil feature" just a teeny bit, and make sure the sump pick-up is placed as low as possible. Also, a source for XL leaks is their stupid sight glass, and gear cover gasket on the non-operating side of the projector. As far as the main drive is concerned, oil will run out of that thing if the sump pick-up on the pump is too far off the floor of the projector casting. This holds true if you are using the sump in the front of the machine as well as the rear.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-30-2001, 12:42 PM:
Harry, I have never been in favor of greasing the gears in an E-7 or Super. They were not designed for that. Just good old Simplex oil, on your daily rounds proir to start-up. I never greased the gears in an E-7 or a Super, and I never had any gear failures due to lack of lubrication. The only gear failures I have seen were due to negligence one way or the other. All those gears want is nice clean Simplex oil, or the concoption of Marvel and Simplex. I have to stand firm on this one.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-30-2001, 06:26 PM:
Westrex always specified a esso 20 oil for there equipment (the same as century) and Wassman specified 10w30 for there machines
A lot of phillips were speced in the 60's with esso and shell oils as well
Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 01-30-2001, 07:55 PM:
A question for the Simplex oil mavens...several years ago, someone gave me a gallon of Kinoton projector oil. Is this oil OK for use in an E-7 in a home-screening-room environment?(I hope it is, because I have been using this oil for some time now. 
)
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-30-2001, 09:09 PM:
Jon, I looked at Kinoton's web site, but could find nothing about the oil they use. But, I did find an email address of someone who can tell you about the oil. It is:john@blsi.com
I personally never worked with any Kinoton products, so I'll stay out of it. But, gentlemen like John Eickhof and some of the others on Film-Tech Forums might be able to shed some light on the oil they use, what it is, and how good it is.
Posted by Harry Robinson (Member # 265) on 01-30-2001, 09:47 PM:
Paul, should I just let the grease in my Super run it's course, or should I try to clean it off? I just used it on the large gears (i.e., the drive gear from the sound head, and the other two or three exposed gears). I never used it on any of the internal gears. The guy I bought the projector from was using grease, so rookie that I am, I just continued doing so. I haven't heard a lot of negative comments about it until now.And thanks to all, as always, for the comments.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-30-2001, 10:19 PM:
Harry, I have cleaned a few without having negative results, and the machines seemed to run a little better. If you used grease on the main drive or intermediate drive gears, just simply clean them up. I am happy to hear you did not use grease on the internal gears. When you clean those gears up, inspect the shafts and oil gallerys to make sure they are not plugged with coagulated grease.
I really don't think you will have any problems. Those old Simplex projectors are tough little guys, and can take alot of abuse. I would recommend you get a manual on those so you know where ALL the oiling points are. There are a few that are easy to overlook. There may be a grease cup on the rear shutter bearing, and Simplex did make a grease for that. Since that grease my no longer be available, some of the old timers might be able to give you some direction on that. It has been 20 years since I tore down a Super for rebuild. It is a SIMple machine, but it can very comPLEX
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 01-31-2001, 10:01 PM:
What oil should I use in a brenkert BX 100/RCA 100? Could I use that marvel mystery oil in them mixed with lavezzi oil?Josh
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-31-2001, 10:22 PM:
Josh, I recommend only Brenkert oil. I have not received any feedback on Marvel mixture used in a Brenkert enviroment. But in any event, I certainly do not recommend Simplex or Lavezzi oil in a Brenkert. It is just too heavy, and some of the moving part fittings in a Brenkert are 1 nitch below a plug fit.
Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 02-01-2001, 06:57 AM:
Wolk can fix you up with the correct oil for a Brenkert. Anything that's heavier than the correct stuff will not be thrown around properly and get to all the spots that need lubed.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-02-2001, 05:38 PM:
Paul and Jeff,
You are both right! Never use anything as heavy as Simplex or LaVezzi in a Brenkert. Brenkerts are in a class by themselves for the lube department. I can't see how a shot or two of Marvel would ever hurt things though. It should actually help. Many camera men use Marvel and mineral oil 60/40 to lube camera movements that cost more than some theater complexes do to build.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 02-05-2001, 11:19 AM:
I have been using a specific type of
Otis elevator oil lube in my Simplex 1014
without any problem at all. Mr. Pytlak,
could you take a look at this subject?
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-05-2001, 11:47 AM:
Matthew: Sorry, I'm not an expert on projector oils (unless they get put on the film 
). FWIW, oils can leach the oil-soluble dyes from color film, especially if the topmost protective gelatin layer has been abraded. A telltail sign is the formation of tiny green or yellow spots in dark areas of the picture, as the magenta and cyan dyes are leached out by the oil. If you wipe the oil off the film with a clean white tissue, and see a distinct color, the color is likely due to the dyes.
Bottom line is to keep the operating side of the projector clean and oil free, so oil doesn't get on the film!
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-05-2001, 03:55 PM:
One thing I don't understand here. For over 50 years, RCA and Simplex Sound Heads have been using 30 or 40 weight non-detergent motor oil. The only problem is that when you run the soundhead low on oil, it'll just lunch a gear. Obvoiusly, it is not an oil problem, so I don't understand why some people want to use anything other than the recommended. It does not make any sense at all. That stuff worked for years. 
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-05-2001, 09:23 PM:
I agree Paul! No matter what type of lubricant is used, if it is not used, problems will occur! Thus the secret (Ha Ha)
to longevity of ANY type of equipment is proper and frequent maintenance! Synthetics, and newer products have their place, but lack of maintenance will result in a dark screen everytime! And of course to the end user..it's a lot less expensive to pour mineral based oil through an open bearing machine (including most intermittents) than to waste money on a more sofisticated product that still ends up on the floor or in a waste oil collector! And to repeat what Paul said, intermittents have lasted for years with what the maker of them recommends!------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-05-2001, 09:27 PM:
Josh, for the Brenkerts, check with a Texaco or Conoco oil distributor, ask for 'Turbo
Oil #25' It is a 6-7 wt wax free oil or ISO
25 that you can use in the Brenkert. Otherwise, as mark suggested, mix Marvel Mystery oil with Simplex oil about 20% MM to
80% Simplex. Remember, Marvel oil has solvents in it so don't use too much!------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-20-2001, 08:24 PM:
I have not yet found out what the Brenkert Oil specifications are. Does anyone know for sure? ISO 24 still seems to be a little heavy from what I have seen 30 years ago.
We all know that Capella WF-32 is too thick for Brenkerts. I have discovered that I can easily get ISO 15 Handi-Oil. and ISO-10 Spindle Oil A. One of those almost has to be closer to Brenkert Oil than the ISO 24. It seems very close in viscosity when the can is shaken. (sounds like kerosene).
Posted by Geoffrey Weiss (Member # 882) on 04-12-2002, 06:33 PM:
Ah, Paul told me some of what I need to know. Simplex no longer manufactures rear shutter grease. I'm working on a regular Simplex, and the grease cups for the motor bearings were packed with congealed grease. So I cleaned the cups and bearings out (with q-tips, soft shop towels, tooth-picks, and projector oil) and need to repack the bearings. The manual recommends the "Simplex Rear Shutter Grease," but suggests Texaco Marfak #2 as a substitute. The local supplier won't sell me less than a case. Another supplier recommended a synthetic when I asked about lubing bearings in an electric motor the size of this one. Anybody have any experience with using synthetic grease in a motor bearing? (I think I'll stick with projector oil for the gears, as John E. recommends.)
Posted by William Bunch (Member # 1040) on 04-16-2002, 09:38 PM:
All the Army/Air Force theaters are still using Simplex XL with RCA 930 soundheads. We get our oils from Ed Wolk. The soundhead oil is DYNOL 367 and is blue in color. It is listed as a hydraulic/lubricating oil with anti wear properties. Ask for Wolk's part number 25551
Projector oil is Mobil Gargoyle Artic 155. This is almost clear. It is a synthetic oil especially made for refrigeration compressors. Ask for Wolk's part number "Artic 155"
Paul said it correctly here that if you do not keep enough oil in the soundhead it will "lunch" the gears. Last year I had a soundhead in Tokyo go out this way. The projectionists thought everything was alright since the sightglass was always full. Well, after fifty some years some crud had finally settled in the base of this sightglass and completely clogged the line. The oil was not being replenished to the gearbox. Crunch !! So now on my rounds I always use a piece of tubing or drinking straw to blow down that sightglass tube to make sure the passage is clear. But I'm not sure where the little puff of air ends up.
Bill BuncH
Misawa, Japan
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 04-18-2002, 05:28 PM:
To William Bunch:About the sight glasses clogging up. I have to go back through the RCA and Simples manuals (on Film-Tech), but if memory serves me right, they do speak of the need of keeping the gear box vent hole clear to prevent improper sight glass readings.
Posted by Andy Bergstrom (Member # 360) on 04-19-2002, 01:51 PM:
One should always be sure the oil tube isn't discolored from the use of the wrong type lubricant. I have seen RCA gearboxes destroyed from lack of oil because the oil tube was discolored giving the impression that the oil level was sufficient. My belief is that at one point the wrong lubricant was used in the soundhead stainning the tube the same color as oil. A lesson from the school of hard knocks.
Posted by Tom Doyle (Member # 1474) on 11-25-2003, 09:16 PM:
I'm bumping up this thread because I'm looking for a good oil for use in the Simplex 1060. I would like to try a synthetic, however, I'm concerned that Lavezzi oil might be a bit too thick for this projector. Is anyone here a regular user of a synthetic oil in the 1060 (or any of the similar 'oil bath' Simplexes)?
Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 11-26-2003, 11:14 AM:
There is a Mobil 1 synthetic 0W-20 that is a very light weight oil. I have not tried using it in a projector, and don't know if there would be any problem using it for that purpose.
Posted by Dave Ganoe (Member # 53) on 11-26-2003, 01:42 PM:
After reading this post Im worried. I have been using sae 10w non det oil in my super simplex proj head and sae 30wt non det in the rca 1040 soundhead. I used this because of information that I had gotten some time ago. Now that I have used this for over a year what should be done to switch or do I even need to change what I am using?
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-26-2003, 05:38 PM:
The lighter oil will typically leak more
the super simplex simplex e7 and century was sae20
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-29-2003, 07:44 AM:
I am a big believer in using synthetic oils in projectors. Typically projectors have such a small quantity of oil in them to begin with that switching to a longer lasting synthetic will definately get you more life from the critical components in the machine...at least thats been my experience with it. UNder use in a projector synthetics simply do not break down like regular oils do. They are also totally non acedic and contain no wax agents at all....both very important prerequisites for a good projector oil. I have used LaVezzi oil for quite a few years in both Century and Phillips projectors...DP-70, FP-20, etc. It is however too thick for a Simplex X-L. Check out the Mobil synthetics available at W.W.Grainger. They have a pretty wide range available there including synthetic compressor and hydraulic oils in the lighter weights.
Mark @ CLACO
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 11-29-2003, 03:59 PM:
Question: If one switched from regular oil to a synthetic, wouldn't the regular oil have to flushed out completely? I'm guessing you would have to pour in the synthetic, then dump it after a few minutes, then refill.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-29-2003, 04:53 PM:
John,
You're right! The absolute best way to change over to synthetics is to do a tear down of what ever it is you want to use it in and then switch over to synthetic. But even if you don't do it that way there are still many,many advantages of switching to it. The additive that is in the LaVezzi stuff may not penetrate the first molecular thickness or two of metal quite as well as if it were the only oil the machine had ever seen. Other synthetic oils, unless stated, generally do not have any additives.
BTW: Synthetics are great for use in rental equipment that may sit for a while and then get used. Synthetics do not evaporate and end up leaving a sticky, gluey film.
Mark