This is topic Thank-you Technicolor F@#K YOU!!!!! in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 02-02-2001, 01:38 AM:
 
This is the last straw....

I know there has been numerous threads complaining about broken technicolor reels....I was always very annoyed but dealt with it. Today while putting together Vertical Limit what happens? A broken reel flys and hits me in the face...NICE BIG BRUISE AND CUT! It's bad enough having to fix the damn reels so they will work...now we have to go sllllllllllllooooooooooowwww as anything for our own safety??? This is ridiculous!!! Should everyone have to wear protective eye gear while working with technicolor reels??? Why doesn't Technicolor just put out some damn money to get new reels??? Then they wouldn't have to worry about a projectionist suing them for lose of eye sight!!

Sorry, I'm just really pissed off right now....that should never have happened. I was going slow as it is.

I'm sure there are many other story's like this...anyone want to tell?

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!
 

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-02-2001, 06:16 AM:
 
Rachel: Ouch!!!

Brad Carroll is the Manager of Exhibitor Relations for Technicolor Entertainment Services (TES). When the pain subsides, call him at (818) 562-8372, or write him at brad_carroll@technicolor.com.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-02-2001, 07:49 AM:
 
Rachel, you have a perfect right to expect a reasonably safe workplace. Things like reels flying apart and hitting you in the face are no different than the workers of the industrial revolution getting caught in belt driven machinery that had no guards over the belts.

I strongly disagree with John. _Write_ a clear letter to Technicolor, copy to NATO, copy to OSHA, copy the President of your circuit, copy your attorney, describing what happened. Talking on the phone to a Technicolor conciliator will get you _squat_ unless you consider a technicolor t-shirt compensation and want the event brushed under the rug as quickly as possible.

Your injury is covered by workman's compensation insurance. Notify the manager immediately _in writing_, copy someone else in case it gets lost. Even if you think the injury was minor, SEE A DOCTOR.

I've had reels fly apart on me ever since the plastic reels became more popular, and I'm sure others have as well. Everyone is well aware of that problem and the "burns" one can get from trying to stop a reel about to fall apart. There is the makings of a product liability lawsuit if Technicolor doesn't demand better quality reels and retire the junkers.

Stuff like this ticks me off, when 50 cents for a couple of bolts can prevent an injury, but some bean counter pressures an engineer to cut corners.

Seeing a doctor _will_ upset the people at corporate, even if they don't say so, because it counts against their insurance. If you think there is any retribution because you went to a doctor, you have other legal rights that can be very nasty to the employer. The best thing is to let the employer know that they should be mad at Technicolor, not you. Include something to that effect in your statement, that you were performing your task in the required manner as safely as you could, when this event occurred.


 

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-02-2001, 11:28 AM:
 
Those plastic reels should either be re-designed and made safe, or they should not be used at all. The first plastic reels seemed to be ok, but the ones used now are very dangerous. They sometimes even fall apart when you remove them from the film can.
 
Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 02-02-2001, 12:13 PM:
 
I'm fine...I had a black eye and a big cut but the black eye disappeared overnight. Right after I stopped bleading I called up my boss. First thing he said was I am covered by workmans comp. I've been on workmans comp before and in my opinion its not worth it. I'm all set...its just a little cut (I'm a tough girl ). I'll give technicolor a call and bitch...I'll also send them a copy of my incident report. I'm just glad all I got was a cut.

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!
 

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-02-2001, 01:46 PM:
 
The point is not so much the worker's comp for you, but that this is the type of information that gets collected by OSHA on workplace accidents, and gets major problems fixed. By not reporting minor accidents where you were lucky, you create a false impression that everything is OK. If everyone who was hurt by these reels over the years had reported it, something would have been done by now. You happen to have a classic example of the dangers involved, showing the liability in a way that can get things changed. If you had damaged an eye or worse, there could have been a civil suit that could have cost Technicolor millions.

We all want to tough out the little injuries and not bother with paperwork and regulations, but let me give an example of what _could_ happen: Eventually one of these reels will fly apart at the wrong time and in the wrong direction, and the startled person doing make-up will get a flailing hand caught between the super-strength film and a 6,000 foot reel, while it is wrapping around at 60 mph. The film won't break, but a hand or arm probably will.

Will the victim be considered stupid for getting caught in such a situation? Possibly, but small accidents do lead to big accidents in unexpected ways, and faulty shipping reels are a hazard that can be easily and cheaply removed. For now, I would suggest that you destroy any broken reels and ship those sections of film back on cores. You've more than earned the right. If someone complains, tell 'em what happened, and that you have no intention of stopping the practice. Put the discomfort back on the people that cause it.



 

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-02-2001, 02:04 PM:
 
When you e-mail Technicolor, make sure that anyone you CC the mail to is visible on Technicolor's end. In other words, don't use BCC. It is sad that Technicolor can't spend the money to ensure AT LEAST ADEQUATE products.

Check out my review on Technicolor. Click "REVIEWS" at the bottom of the screen, agree, and then click on the June 2000 review. Perhaps it should be updated to include the scenario that happened to you.

Hope you heal quick.
 

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 02-02-2001, 03:29 PM:
 
Rachel...you'd better listen to what he says and heal quick.

That guy looks pretty mean!

------------------
"It's not the years, honey...it's the mileage". Indiana Jones
 

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-02-2001, 07:07 PM:
 
That picture was taken by a Technicolor employee. This is my normal reaction to them.
 
Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 02-02-2001, 11:46 PM:
 
Anyone want to see my big boo boo?? I got a nice picture to send to technicolor For some reason the bruise went away overnight and then came back???? hmmmmmm

Oh well....I don't know how to put the pic on the page so I'll send it to Brad (sorry to be a pain in your ass Brad).

Needless to say....MY HEAD HURTS!

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!
 

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 02-03-2001, 12:00 AM:
 
Rachel:

Yes, we would like to see the damage.

Just email the photo to Brad and tell him which forum and which thread title to paste the picture to.


 

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-03-2001, 12:09 AM:
 
I had a plastic Technicolor reel fly apart on me too. There must have been a small crack in it and when I started spinning it up while rewinding the reel it split in half.

ACROSS THE DIAMETER OF THE REEL!

Both halves went flying in opposite directions and one missed my head by inches. The other one made a nice mark in the drywall on the other side of the room.
 

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-03-2001, 12:47 AM:
 
Yes Rachel, please email me the picture and I'll put it here on this thread (or on the front page to the site if you so desire). Send one of yourself too with the cuts and bruises. These reels have been a nuisance and a hazard from the second time each one was used. Joe's review on TES is about as accurate as it gets! Unfortunately money is all that seems to matter to them. Just use the "search" function here and do a search for "TES" and then do a search for "technicolor" and see what you come up with. The posts here are what the studios who ship out of that company SHOULD be listening to and NOT the political bs press releases from TES. Those press releases remind me of my high school pep rallies yelling "WE'RE NUMBER ONE! (We didn't win a game for 16 years straight.)

There are some excellent points here, but as I'm just now catching this thread, the one thing that I'm surprised wasn't mentioned is that of course YOU weren't badly injured, but if this practice continues someone sooner or later WILL be injured...and I mean worse than you were. How would you feel if that reel had've actually punctured your eye and for the rest of your life you had no sight from it ever again?

Perhaps the temporary solution here from the projecitonist's end is to simply throw away any reel that has any defect or does not hold together completely solid. If TES complains, direct them to this thread and explain you refuse to use it for your own safety and the safety of all future projectionists who will continue to get that defective reel. I know this has always been my practice, but when over 50% of their films start coming back without reels, they will HAVE to purchase new ones. Maybe instead of buying the 59 cent reels they'll buy the 62 cent reels that will stay together.

This thread really belongs in the Film Handler's Forum so it is not missed. Also, it IS directly related to film handling. I am closing it in Film-Yak and opening it in the Film Handler's Forum.


 

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 02-03-2001, 01:48 AM:
 
I had a reel come apart on me once, big chunk of it, bout 1/4, fly right past my head. Scared the crap out of me.

Hope you heal fast Rachel, and take Brad and Jerry's advice.
 

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-03-2001, 07:21 AM:
 
Yeah, I agree with Jerry (and others) completely... DO make a big deal of it, because they will never improve things on their own.

It's sad, but many times it takes a lawsuit to get a company to "wake-up." And, I'm not thinking of some moron spilling hot coffee while driving... I'm thinking of design errors like putting gas tanks on the outside of truck frame rails....
 

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-03-2001, 08:11 AM:
 
Personally I'd hire an lawyer and go after them! Its time someone did that.
Mark
 
Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-03-2001, 09:50 AM:
 
John Walsh said: "I'm not thinking of some moron spilling hot coffee while driving... "

I'm guessing you are referring to the McDonald's suit that was highly publicized a few years ago. Never underestimate the power of large corporations to "spin" a complaint into something different.

The McDonald's suit was a case brought in response to _repeated_ complaints to McDonald's that the lids on their coffee cups were improperly designed and came off when even slight pressure was applied to the side of the cup. It used to happen to me regularly. The cup would be sitting on the transmission hump beside me, and would fall over when I turned a corner and the lid would promptly pop off, just from tipping over. I'd yell "S@*t!" and swear, then try to figure a more secure way of holding the cup, stupidly "toughing it out" by thinking it was _my_ problem, and not McDonald's. The lid did not help contain the coffee, but merely kept it warm by preventing evaporation. (For those of us in the theatre business long enough, we can remember a time when the soft drink lids were equally as bad, and rivers of spilled soda running down auditorium slopes were common. Even before the McDonald's verdict, these soft drink lids were improved and much of our industry problem solved.)

MickyDs management knew about the problem with ill-fitting coffee lids from multiple complaints by customers and workers, and yet not only refused to make changes, but continued to instruct stores to serve their coffee at a temperature guaranteed to cause burns, not only to drive through customers, but to any two year old child that might tip over a cup.

The huge initial award was given because, like in our self-destructing reel situation, we have the right to assume that a product will perform it's function in the environment it was designed for, _without being a hazard to our health_. McDonald's not only refused to correct the lid problem or accept any responsibility, it's attornies successfully attempted to villify the injured party in the eyes of the general public; an action that was just plain evil.

The McDonald's case is an example why tort reform is such an insidious danger. By limiting damages collectable in lawsuits, corporations such as McDonald's and Technicolor would no longer have the incentive to correct problems. With tort reform, it literally can be cheaper for McDonald's to pay for a few people burning their crotch every year than to make a penny fix to a billion lids, or cheaper for Technicolor to avoid a fifty cent fix to an exploding film reel by paying an occasional claim for a punctured eye. The cost to businesses for promoting tort reform is miniscule, compared to the savings of not having to be accountable for their actions.

The spin that McDonald's provided to the eager news media was masterful, and shows just how easily the media (supported by corporate advertisers) can be mislead, and shows why people should never trust the popular news at face value.

Sorry for the rant, but after thinking about it, and reading the other stories here, I'm inclined to agree with Mark. You might want to contact a personal injury attorney who works on a contingency basis. You have nothing to lose, and you might help a lot of folks have a safer workplace if you win.

Frankly, even the old metal reels were safer, when damaged they bent and crimped the film but rarely caused injury or flew apart. There is no earthly reason to have to accept unsafe and inferior reels.
 

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-03-2001, 10:10 AM:
 
I would also send copies of the letter or email letter to all the film companies that use technicoler to distribute their films. They are the ones who are spending the money for the services of technicolor to distribute their films. I agree with Jerry, Get an injury lawyer to investigate this matter. If you get money out of it give some of it to your favorite charity. Another thing about technicolor is they like to gouge you with their pick-up and delivery charges. Here we have another theater about a mile down the road from us. It is one of our theaters. When we either pick a film up from them or they pick a film up from us. we end up having to break it down and someone from airborne bicks it up and drives it a mile to our other theater. Therefor charging both theaters for pick up and recieving. Stupid Stupid Stupid. Now we know what the S stands for in TES. STUPIDITY!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 02-03-2001, 10:35 AM:
 
You should thank your lucky stars that you were not hit in the eye. Yes, at the minimum, you should contact OSHA, TES, and the studio who's film it was. After all, TES is just a contractor for the studio. They will put the film on whatever quality reel the studio is willing to pay for. On the other hand, that does not relieve them of liabilty for offering an unsafe product.

One day, somebody is going to be blinded by one of these so-called reels, and unless there are complaints on record, TES and the studios are going to get off cheap claiming that it was an isolated incident.
 

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-03-2001, 02:53 PM:
 
Jerry;

I was thinking of the McDonald's lawsuit. I read about it then, but must admit I've forgotten some details now.

I'm a big believer in that people should be responsible for themselves. So, I tended to side with McDonald's in this instance. (If I remember) one reason was/is that the person had the coffee in their crotch while driving, and it spilled. There was a question whether the driver initially caused an accident, then tried to blame it on spilling coffee to reduce their blame (never resolved either way.) My thoughts:

- If a person repeatedly gets something that's not right, either take precautions, or don't buy the product. They've had warning!

- Don't be distracted while driving; driving requires 100% attention with both hands on the wheel. We know everyone violates this rule- look at any driver on a cell phone. Usually everyone gets away with it, but if he causes an accident, it's his fault. States are starting to make operating a cell phone while driving illegal. I don't see any difference between a coffee-drinker, a cell phone operator, or a cigarette smoker.

- Loose items must be secured safely while in a moving vehicle, like in a cup holder, not in a crotch.

- The cup was not designed to be held both overly tightly AND with one hand (which is what a person must do while driving.) It was designed to keep the contents from spilling out while sitting in a bag/box, etc.

Now, I think your arguments apply well to this reel situation:

- People have complained to Technicolor to no avail.

- Usually, you've never seen that particular reel before, and some cracks or broken peices are hidden, and so are unaware of its condition.

- Its purpose requires a design that should allow it to spin at high speeds safely.

I agree that damages should not be limited.(I felt GM did a stupid design thing with the truck gas tank location. I was annoyed they got off cheap at the end.)

Besides, I didn't think you were ranting- your points were too well-written, with good supporting arguements- to be a rant.
 

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-03-2001, 03:08 PM:
 
All of these stories about reels breaking and chunks flying and causing damage in the wall reminded me of a situation that I almost had forgotten:

The same thing happened to me as I broke down a movie from a platter late one night. The chunk flew across the stairs and made a huge dent in the wall. It hit the wall so hard that you could see the white drywall easilly. That dent is still there, I'm sure. It was located over a set of stairs and would be next to impossible to repair without the aid of scaffolding. When something flies that hard it can really damage a human being.

I'm sure TES's solution would be "You're spinning the reel too fast!" Even at the slowest speeds of the MUT, a reel chunk can cause serious injury.

If something like this ever goes to court, I would be more than willing to testify against Technicolor and their piss-poor products.
 

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 02-03-2001, 03:09 PM:
 
Ok guys. I sent my pics to Brad...They look like crap Well, I look like crap. Not to mention the big bruise on my face, I'm wearing no makeup (OH NO!!!). These pictures were taken 2 days after the accident so they are not as bad as it was when it first happened.

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!
 

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-03-2001, 09:41 PM:
 
John, I thought much along the same lines on the McDonald's case until I stepped back for a minute and realized that McDonald's was intentionally selling coffee in those weak cups to people at the drive-throughs, even though they knew there was no way the cup and lid would be able to handle the environment. More money was spent on happy meal toys than fixing a known hazard. They sold a defective product and were a negligent company.

The company had been warned many times. A person who had never visited before could just as easily been burned.

BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if the woman who got burned had put the cup between her legs because she knew if it tipped over it would spill. Sometimes we think we can do things we can't, and we try to compensate for the stupidity of others.

You suggested the lids were designed to work in the bags. Horse hockey. The lids didn't even stay on in the bags, and the paper soda holders weren't designed for coffee cups. I've tossed more than one bag out the car window because the coffee had leaked and saturated the sugar packs, napkins, and french fries, screw the environment of the fast food restaurants in the city of Miami.

"If a person repeatedly gets something that's not right, either take precautions, or don't buy the product. They've had warning!"

I quite agree, and for me, after fully understanding the McDonald's attitude, I refuse to visit their establishments. When I'm starving and there are no dead squirrels on the side of the road, I might go back to McDonald's. Some people aren't as fussy.

As for precautions... now that we know for sure that the TES reels can self-destruct, may I suggest wearing a flack jacket and xenon face shield while doing make-up and take-down? Some responsibilities have to fall back on the manufacturer, even when the user elects to take a chance. One coffee, sugar, no cream. To go.

 

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-03-2001, 10:08 PM:
 
It would not surprise me that Technicolor knows the reels are defective and dangerous. For saving money, I think they figure along the lines of "X" number of reels at "X" number of pennies over "X" number of years offsets the cost of lawsuits in event someone gets hurt.


 

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-03-2001, 10:28 PM:
 
I was under the impression that; as well as the things that y'all have said about the Mickey D's cups; another big reason that they got sued (and lost) was because when this happened the people at the restaurant pretty much laughed in the woman's face.

The LEAST they could have done was to show some concern. Maybe offer to pay the cleaning bill or IF the injury was real, pay the doctor bills. Be "up-front" about it, you know?

So there's this guy managing a Mc Donald's making what, $25,000 a year? If he wants to keep his job he has to work with what he's given, right? Even if he KNOWS those cups are bad there's not a lot he can do if he wants to sell coffee. He has to use the cups the company sends him. So instead of making fun of the poor woman (even if she was partially at fault) he should have acted like a professional and done what was right.

If I was a "customer service" manager at Technicolor what *I* would do is just about the same thing that I suggested Mickey D's should have done... a nice letter of aplology... maybe offer to pay the medical bills... and then send a brand new can full of brand new reels to ship the print back in (free of charge)

Essentially, it's all about appearences.


 

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-03-2001, 10:42 PM:
 
Randy, Technicolor will probably send her a Technicolor shirt in hopes that it will settle the claim.

That would be similar to Regal's severence package. A free pass and a bucket of stale popcorn that tastes like styrofoam.


 

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-03-2001, 11:43 PM:
 
Or maybe they will let her theater get away with one late pickup for free!

Unfortunately Brad is out of town right now so he doesn't get as much of a chance to check the forum and post the pics. He did e-mail me the two pics so I could see them, though. I did not know they were taken two days after the incident. The cut is extremely close to her eye. Just a little over an inch and she might be blind in that eye now. She got lucky.


 

Posted by Heyward Garner (Member # 722) on 02-03-2001, 11:53 PM:
 
Hah... =)
'bout time someone brought this up, I thought my ghetto reels were in a "class" of their own. I have experienced many a SHIT reel from technicolor, and I did end up throwing a whole bunch away, and am always coming up short on reels. Though I was not hit in the face, I have had one hit my arm, another fly over my head, two fall apart completely when removed from the can, and several more break while packing up movies... I don't believe I need say more...
 
Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 02-04-2001, 12:18 AM:
 
Heh, Joe, like my boo boo?

I haven't written to technicolor yet but I am working on it, and also sending along the pics that brad will put up on this thread.

I didn't mean to make such a big deal out of this....I figured maybe 1 or 2 ppl would reply This is all part of the job...anyone thats says projection is easy and safe has never down it before (and yes, I have had people tell me they thought it was a cushy job).

In reponse to Jerry who said maybe we should wear a flack jacket and a xenon face shield....I will definaly take more precautions when making and breaking movies but the reels should never be that bad as to have to wear that protective gear.

The part that really bothers me about this is the movie went thru technicolors little inspection.....they looked at the reels, thats thier job, they knew "4" out of the 7 reels were broken. Why would they send a movie like this back out??? Oh wait!!! I know that answer!!! I know it, I know it....

BECAUSE ITS TECHNICOLOR!

But to continue on that little topic....I know thier little inspection only consists of looking at the beginning of the reels...there were no heads or tails on 3 of the reels....GRRRRRR. Do they just stick the little plastic green thingys on the tins and say they were inspected or do they actually look??? I really hope they never even looked in the cans, because if they did that would be pretty damn bad for them to send this movie back to me! The way I look at it....

1.) The theater that took the movie apart wanted to see if technicolor actually checked the prints...

2.) The movie got sent back to technicolor

3.) Technicolor put the little green claspy things on to say, "Yes, We know all 3 cans came back, we didn't look in it, its fine because all the cans are here in front of me"

4.) They send them back to me....

Ok, ok, I know that was dumb!

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!
 

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 02-04-2001, 01:54 AM:
 
And legalities Randy. If they did that, it would be an admission of guilt that could be used against them in a court of law. It would be an open and shut case. Of course if she accepted them, then she might not be able to sue....
....*headache* Lets just get rid of all the lawyers and go back to mob justice.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-04-2001, 02:49 AM:
 
Ok, the pics Rachel sent were pretty dark, so I asked Joe to brighten them up a bit. He didn't perform any "digital enhancements" other than to brighten them overall. Rachel can vouch that he didn't go in and try to make the wound look worse than it is.

That's AWFUL close to your left eye, Rachel. If that thing had've gone one inch to the other side, you probably would be living the rest of your life with only one eye. This isn't a rant in my opinion, but an extremely serious problem that people have been complaining about for years. The old posts on this forum alone should be enough proof of the quality control that TES sends out and as sad as this is, it will take this incident as well as others (if you are not able to succeed in a MAJOR lawsuit) to get them to change their ways and actually show a little bit of concern for the safety of the projectionists who must work with their reels. I've cut myself so many times from a chipped/cracked reel (some very bad) it's pathetic, but like I said, hopefully the studios will get onto TES about this and hopefully no projectionist will ever return a reel to TES again that is defective in ANY way whatsoever. Getting these reels OUT OF CIRCULATION is an absolute must!



 

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 02-04-2001, 03:42 AM:
 
Ouchee waa waa! That's incredible Rachell! If that's it looking better after a couple of days... ! I have seen very few of these reels here fortunately, but those that have been here live up to their reputation here on the forum and have been filed in the appropriate place...the trash can.

You've got to chase this up with a lawyer. Their cheapness has almost taken out your eye and though you are still young and it may not seem like the end of the world to you right now, those things are not replaceable and you're going to need them in the future. What if you did nothing now and in ten...twenty years times something else bad (God forbid) happened and took away your sight in your other eye leaving you completely blinded? Or maybe you would just go blind in that eye anyway? You'd never see your kids or Grandkids ever again.

Think about the future...take it to a lawyer. He'll take one look at you, pick up the phone and immediately order that extension to his house.

I hope you are feeling ok now though...and that you have kept the evidence.

------------------
"It's not the years, honey...it's the mileage". Indiana Jones
 

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 02-04-2001, 08:45 AM:
 
These reels have been a problem for years!

Shall we all agree to throw out any broken reels that we receive? This seems to be the only way to remove them from use. In the past I've asked for empty reels to replace broken ones. Never received any. So I discard the broken reels and ship out on a core. I've never heard any feedback about my shipping out on cores.

Maybe Technicolor will get the message if we all start doing this. Just like Alice's Restaurant!

On another Technicolor note, for a screening several weeks ago, they shipped a "bid print" of _Galaxy Quest_. No credits, incomplete special effects, no final music track. It was quite amusing to watch, especially since this was a "surprise" film during a science fiction film marathon.
 

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-04-2001, 11:21 AM:
 
Rachel, my comment about using a flack jacket and face shield was meant to drive home the point that customers and workers should not be asked to go to ridiculous lengths to protect themselves from injury by defective products. As such, it was meant mostly as reparte' and not meant to be taken literally.

After looking at the pictures, I'm beginning to think that I _should_ be taken literally. I know that I would no longer be as casual as I used to be, if I were still making-up prints. At a minimum, I would demand safety glasses and wear them religiously during make-up and break down.

I'm going to digress for a moment and direct a comment to any circuit executives that might be reading-

---
I know that some of you are going to be saying "These film handlers need to slow down the speed at which they put films together. If they would just run the make-up tables at a safe speed, then this couldn't happen. We might even get out technicians to physically limit the speed at which the reels rotate. It is easier to get the little guy to change than buck the system." That is a nice thought, but you are the folks that have agreed to fall in line with the "anti-piracy" bullshit from TES and the distributors, that dictates prints arriving at the last minute. That gives the film handler a minimum amount of time to put together a number of prints, often while having to tend to other shows. If you want the feature on-screen for those first shows, the film handler usually MUST run the make-up table at speed. Any film handler who doesn't get a print on-screen is often subject to disciplinary action or, at minimum, veiled harrasment from management and threats of being fired.

The effectiveness of last-second print shipments in preventing piracy is a joke, and you know it. The one or two days lead that would be given to any pirate is just that - a one or two day period where the pirated film would be available early. If a pirate really wanted to snag a film, it could be done in the early morning hours following the first showings. The real bitch, underneath all the rhetoric, is the possible financial damage to a distributor from a film handler pre-screening a print. This is ludicrous (especially with off-the-break prints)and any reduced revenues from prints arriving early is nil.

Demand that the last-second shipping be rolled back - at least until all the defective shipping reels have been replaced. Now knowing that there is a problem, and knowingly continuing to put your employees at risk, you have a liability. The current situation, as dictated by the distributors and TES puts you between a rock and a hard place. Please think and make a decision that will benefit everyone in the industry in the long run.
---

Rachel, I'd like to ask you to give the members of this forum the right to reproduce the pictures you uploaded. One effective way that this wheel can be made very squeaky is by a group action to promote awareness of the danger, in ways that cannot be ignored.

If you agree, my suggestion is that every film handler that wants to take a stand against defective reels copy the photo to his or her hard drive, then use an ink jet or laser printer to print up a few dozen copies of the photo alnong with a suitable caption. Stick a copy (loose) inside each outgoing can of film, and possibly glue one to the interior or exterior of the can so it can't be easily removed. If enough film handlers include enough copies of the photos in enough prints, there is no way that TES or the major circuits can ignore it.


A possible caption might read:

"This young woman was almost blinded when a shipping reel self-destructed and flew apart during print make-up. Please complain to your corporate management, booker, and film company representatives that defective shipping reels are a health hazard, and let them know that you intend to personally destroy any and all defective reels shipped to you, for your own protection.

While the reel in question came from T.E.S., this is an industry-wide problem that has been ignored, benefiting only those who purchase cheap reels that are easily damaged, saving them a few pennies. Register your displeasure with NATO, T.E.S. and any person that you think can help effect a minimum standard for safe reels and better inspections.

Full details of the incident are available on the web at www.film-tech.com."

If you get a letter or call demanding that no more notes be included in film cans, take note of the source. Be sure to include the name of that person and the company he or she represents in any follow-up letters or e-mails. Posting those names here might be fun too.

Use whatever caption you want, but be aware that your purpose is _not_ to dump on T.E.S. but to get a reel safety problem solved.

If Boxoffice Magazine and Film Journal were more than house organs for the film companies, I would expect them to pick up on something like this and turn it into a big article. However, my bet is that if it gets covered at all it will be a single column stuck in the back pages. I'd sure love to be proven wrong.

I also realize that there are going to be people out there that will want to black-list me for pushing this issue and formenting a stink. If that is the case, so be it. I've been called names before, and I'm sure I'll be called names again.

Good luck in getting this danger removed from your booths.
 

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-04-2001, 12:41 PM:
 
She is one very lucky lady.

Technicolor should be ashamed of themselves for being such cheap and greedy bastards.
 

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 02-04-2001, 12:54 PM:
 
Ok, ok, I'm going to a lawyer tomorrow. Just letting everyone know. I'm not going to mail my letter to technicolor until I go see the lawyer.

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!
 

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-04-2001, 01:52 PM:
 
Definitely a good idea to see a lawyer before any correspondence takes place. Obviously the lawyer will be reading this thread, and I encourage him/her to read other threads about Technicolor's reels as well so they can be as informed as possible.

No doubt Technicolor will try to brush this off as "an unfortunate accident". But as stated above, it is not uncommon for their reels to fly apart throwing their sharp shrapnel any which direction. If possible, try to save the reel that did this to you.
 

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 02-04-2001, 01:55 PM:
 
I have the reel and it went thru thier inpection so they can't say that the theater before me broke the reel and they didn't know about it....because they looked, so they knew. It's thier fault, they shouldn't have sent it back out.

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!
 

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-04-2001, 02:10 PM:
 
Unfortunate accident, my foot! I'll bet TES knows this happens quite frequently. They probably consulted their lawyers before the even released the damn things.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-04-2001, 02:45 PM:
 
Rachel, could you, at your next opportunity, send pics of that reel? If possible also include the piece that flew off and hit you.

Now I wish I had more pictures of the bad reels I have encountered over the years. The only known picture I have is in my Technicolor review on this site. That reel came with a piece missing. Could have easily cut my hand when grabbing it from the can.

Anyone else have any pictures of defective TES reels? Send them in! If you get a bad reel and it falls or flies apart on you, then by all means take a picture before you touch anything. But please, don't break them yourself just to take the pic.
 

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 02-04-2001, 03:10 PM:
 
I'll take the pic for you but the part that flew at me was the whole top section...the middle part in the core was what was broken...there was also a little sharp edge which just happened to hit me perfectly...I'll take the pic tonight while I'm at work.

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!
 

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-04-2001, 04:18 PM:
 
OK, The following is what I have done. I have been doing this for a while now. In order to keep the reels from coming apart on the bench I have made a stopper for the shaft. I took a piece of plastic wire insulator and rapped it around the shaft. Then I took some masking tape and rapped it around the insulator. I then just slide it on to the shaft up against the reel. It holds the reel in place. This also can be done with a section of rubber tubbing with a 5/16th diametor hole. There is still no exscuse for broken reels being used over and over again. I have received reels that have had the entire flang sheered off. Or only half the flang. Maybe they need to start using solid reels again. Then there is no excuse for not inspecting the reels when loading them up.
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-04-2001, 07:36 PM:
 
If you have an old Goldberg (or any other) enclosed 2000 foot rewind which was used in the old carbon arc days, use it and transfer the film to a house reel or a good shipping reel until this situation with the defective plastic reels is resolved. I am sure there are still plenty of those old rewinds available. Since TES ships the reels heads out and tails out, it involves some rewinding anyway.

When TES comes and picks up their prints while the movie is still running, tell them politely and professionally to "bend over". Some of them are so dumb, they might take it as a complement.

They will undoubtedly tell you to hurry up with the idea that you will do a high-speed dismount. It is very typical for those idiots to try and hurry you along. Furthermore, tell them when the print will be ready for pickup. If they show up earlier, that's just tough. Feed them some popcorn you swept off the floor and make them wait until you can safely dismount your print.

TES is nothing more than a pain in the rump. Always has been, and probably always will be.

Everytime I saw their broken-down beat-up busted orange film cans that look like they have been through 3 World Wars, I had this pain..... , and I didn't even have to touch the film cans before this pain developed.

TES is a classic example of WHAT NOT TO DO.


 

Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 02-05-2001, 11:45 AM:
 
Why don't you use Neumade or other split
reels that screw together?
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-05-2001, 03:58 PM:
 
Matthew, a very good thought. But from the posts below, maybe not. I stand corrected.


 

Posted by Michael Cunningham (Member # 210) on 02-05-2001, 09:46 PM:
 
The only problem with those split reels is that they say right on them "Do not use as normal reel!". Now as to what this actually means...any thoughts? Are they worried about them unscrewing while being turned too often?

-Mike
 

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-05-2001, 11:22 PM:
 
If it unscrews in the direction of rotation, there could be a problem.

Since the reels turn in a CCW direction when you are mounting your print, just flop the reel over and put a half of a twist in the film. That way, the reel will turn in the CW direction. That should work, shouldn't it?

That's why Brenkert put a left-handed thread on the screw that holds the intermittent sprocket on the shaft so the screw doesn't unthread itself. Now this can get confusing, I know. If you hold the screw that secures the intermittent sprocket to the shaft, and when the shaft rotates, it'll tighten the screw.

But if the shaft is not driven, and you are pulling it instead, such as making up a film, it may unscrew itself. For me, it is hard to explain. Just play with it, and you will probably get the drift of what I am trying to say. Maybe some of you folks out there can explain it better than I can.


 

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-05-2001, 11:40 PM:
 
I have had a Goldberg split reel come apart during a dailies session, Luckily I was there to quickly screw it back together and then I used a house reel for the rest of the rolls.

Aaron

 

Posted by Chris Wootten (Member # 283) on 02-06-2001, 04:38 AM:
 
I think that this is just the tip of the iceberg...... Companies who used to care about customers and service, are only interested in the "bottom line", and their standing with the stock holders. Businesses don't seem to have a conscience anymore. The ones who suffer are normally the innocent recipients of the aftermath of penny pinching bean counters......

beware the bean counters......best of luck Rachael..

------------------
"I luv the smell of napalm in tha mornin !"

Keep Smiling......Chris
 

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-06-2001, 02:36 PM:
 
Just guessing, but perhaps the reason they don't want you to use a split reel as a regular reel is it may unscrew at the higher speeds found when breaking down a print.

One time when I was running 35mm mag track on a dubber. The mag film was warped or something. (The reel flanges are swaged on the center brass core of the reel.) The film was riding/pressing against the outside reel flange. About halfway through, the outside of the reel popped off, and started flopping around. Luckly, the film didn't dump onto the floor, or get damaged.
 

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-06-2001, 08:53 PM:
 
Reels like that should be either repaired or thrown in the trash.
 
Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 02-08-2001, 11:55 AM:
 
Just to let you guys know, I talked to a lawyer....and I don't think he knew who technicolor was hehe, I just thought that was funny

------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.

FUNNY!!!!!
 

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-08-2001, 04:15 PM:
 
Rachel, what happened with the lawyer? Were you brushed off with a "this is covered by workman's comp." or did he or she think it merited further inquiry?

BTW, has anyone thought of pushing the reel problem as a mcguffin for an action film? Put sharp metal points on the outside of the reels and and they are like those flying stars in the karate movies. The "cut" line (sorry for the pun) could be "NOW! SEE A PROJECTIONIST DECAPITATED - IN AND BY TECHNICOLOR!!!"
 

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 02-08-2001, 05:10 PM:
 
If you have been brushed off by a lawyer on this matter...get another lawyer.

 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-08-2001, 06:49 PM:
 
Is there any federal body in the US (or one that operates at state or local level) which is specifically charged with enforcing health and safety law? In the UK we have two levels of health and safety law enforcement. Firstly, the local authority (in my case, York City Council) inspects cinemas routinely to ensure that they are obeying all aspects of health and safety law. For more serious matters (this usually means investigating workplace accidents that result in injury or death) there is a government body called the Health and Safety Executive.

If Rachel's accident had happened in the UK,
it would have needed to be formally reported to the Health and Safety Executive under the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurances Regulations (RIDDOR), which is a legal requirement under the 1974 Health and Safety at Work Act. Action against Technicolor would almost certainly have followed.

Secondly, why do release prints need to be shipped on projection spools at all? Lets face it, 90% of cinemas run prints off platters. As for the other 10%, if the spools supplied by distributors are as bad as you guys say, then no self-respecting projectionist would dream of using them to run prints from anyway. In the UK and Europe prints are supplied in plastic containers on 3-inch cores. The projectionist uses a split spool or a plate to wind them onto a platter or a solid spool for projection. This has several advantages:

1. Defective spools would be a thing of the past. Cinemas which did show films reel-to-reel would keep their own set, which the projectionists would take care of and ensure that they didn't get bent or damaged.

2. There would be less risk of edge damage from winding prints on and off bent and sharp-edged spools. Of course, more care is needed to ensure that the film is wound flat on the plate, but that's not much of a problem.

3. There'd be no problem with spools being incompatible with equipment that had a different spindle diameter.

4. The plastic cans are totally airtight and encase the film more tightly than spools in shipping containers, which reduces the possibility for damage in transit.

The two main drawbacks I can think of are that (i) quite serious print damage can happen if the core gets crushed, and (ii) moron projectionists who don't pack off films carefully can massacre a reel with edge damage. But I only get about two crushed cores (usually on rep prints that have been sitting on a shelf for decades) and two edge-damaged reels a year on average - for the sake of someone's eye, that strikes me as a price worth paying...
 

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-08-2001, 09:47 PM:
 
I agree- it would probably be better if we (in the U.S.) stopped using reels- if we had a high percentage of good operators. But, we don't. And, cheap theater owners would complain that they have to buy a few split-reels!

Usually (again, in the U.S.) theaters have their own "house reels"- good quality reels. When you receive the print, you take the film off of the cheap shipping reels and put them on to the good reels- which you use during the feature's run. (The few that still use reels, that is.)

There will still be a compatibility problem with spindle diameter because some places run larger (1 hour) reels, and use the larger spindle.

I feel there would be a problem using split reels when breaking a show down from a platter. Many operators in the US are, sadly, just not trained properly, and will not wind the film with the proper tension. As soon as they take the film off of the split reel, I'm sure they will not hold it properly, and it will fall out from the center.
 

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-08-2001, 09:55 PM:
 
I agree with John. There are too many platters that do not provide proper backtension on breakdown and too many operators that simply are not trained well enough to handle film on cores. A platter such as an AW3 will break a film down with such perfect tension as to be able to ship prints on 6000 foot lengths on cores effortlessly. In fact, the wind is so good that you can rack your knuckles onto the side of the roll without fear of the core falling out. Unfortunately it seems that there are far too many platter models that can not. If the film isn't wound perfectly smooth and tight, film damage would happen to the sprockets during ship back to the depot. Although I would personally PREFER to receive and ship back prints on cores, it is probably a bad idea for the common multiplex. I have received far too many used prints that were wound so loosely it was obvious that the motor was disengaged during breakdown and if the reel was to split open, the roll would completely fall apart. In fact, just getting the film off of such a loosely wound reel without cinch scratching it takes a lot of extra and unnecessary care.


 

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-08-2001, 10:06 PM:
 
What I have seen in Japan years back in the carbon arc booths, the Japanese Projectionists didn't even use reels.

It was simply a 2000 foot roll of film mounted on a core. They would place the roll of film in the upper magazine along with a piece of free-wheeling aluminum flat bar retain it.

They rewound them the same way. It looked wierd, but there was never any trouble with the rolls un-spooling themselves.

Of course, being true professionals in their craft, they probably never considered anything other than flat bar to retain the film, as nothing else was really needed.


 

Posted by Michael Cunningham (Member # 210) on 02-09-2001, 05:59 AM:
 
Also, there is the problem that many MUT's cannot turn split reels at all. The split reels I have are driven by that little key slot off the center hole. My Strong MUT's drive reels using a two post (spindle) system that requires a large reel hub with extra holes around the center hole. For me to wind onto cores I have to pull the film onto a house 6000 or 2000 large hub reel, reverse the entire reel at the rewind bench and then flip the film again onto the core in split reel once again at the rewind bench. All this extra time to get the reels heads up on cores! Not to mention the fact of incompetant operators getting their hands in the mix, the extra time alone would drive most multiplex operators batty.

-Mike
 

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 02-09-2001, 12:42 PM:
 
To answer Leo's question, yes, in the US we have such an organization-the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA). Problem is, if she reported this to them they'd come down on the place of employement (the theatre) and not TES.
 
Posted by Tom Ferreira (Member # 70) on 02-10-2001, 10:33 AM:
 
I've had Technicolor reels break apart in my hand and a full reel of film drop on my foot. This past week, for example, evry single one of the five reels of Silverman was broken in my print. Five out of five! And three of the seven of Hannibal! How do Sony and MGM feel about this mishandling of their films? Why do the studios continue to put up with this. I've been an outspoken critic of Technicolor for years on this forum myself, and this just reinforces every complaint we've ever had. The misaligned drive holes are bad enough, but reels with sharp chunks taken out of them, and reels that are completely broken are totally unacceptable. Count me into this movement. I'll alert my circuit to put all problems with Technicolor into writing, not just physical print problems, but also delivery screw-ups and the like.
As an aside, one of our theatres was expecting two print of Hannibal this past week, and received one. When Technicolor was contacted, the manager was told that only one was booked. Another of our theatres received two prints of Hannibal and two prints of Chocolat this past Thursday. This theatre has three screens. Seems the reels aren't the only thing that's cracked at Technicolor.
Tom Ferreira
District Manager, Cinema Management Co. Inc.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-10-2001, 12:14 PM:
 
Has anyone ever actually written to any of the film companies (not TES, but the actual distributors) about the TES reel problems?

And if so, what response did you get?

 

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 02-10-2001, 01:31 PM:
 
Paul:

That sounds similar to what the Kinoton studio projector offers. Check out the second picture here: http://www.blsi.com/kinoton/fp30ec.htm

A studio projectionist, though, showed me that you don't even need the bar-- running dailies off of flanges. It went perfectly! Take-up was onto split reels (although you might be able to get away with flanges, who knows...)
 

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-10-2001, 01:42 PM:
 
Michael,

Strong/Potts can indeed makeup/breakdown straight from/to cores. They have a specail "flat." Ever notice the two holes in the drive plates (not threaded)...the flat engauges these holes. The flat is big enough to hold 6000' on a core.

I agree with Brad on this one...transporting on cores might be a nice thing but would require operators that this industry has proven that it is lacking in.

I say, go back to the Goldberg metal shipping reel...their plastic reel happens to be the best too.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 

Posted by Paul Cunningham (Member # 501) on 02-11-2001, 06:36 AM:
 
I have to agree with Leo here and say that the last time I received a film on reels was probably 7 or 8 months ago. Everything is on cores and most of the time just in a cardboard box with cardboard spacers in between, occasionally it is in the individual plastic containers as well. We haven't had any major problems, maybe the odd one or two that are wound a bit loose but nothing unmanageable.
I have always wondered why a company such as TES which is apparently trying to save every last cent uses reels and film trunks, a core is certainly cheaper than a reel, and a cardboard box is pretty cheap too. At the end of the prints life when it gets destroyed it doesn't have to be pulled off the spool, the whole lot can be just thrown in.

Paul
 

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-11-2001, 06:17 PM:
 
One problem with cardboard boxes is that they are not waterproof. (Not that a badly damaged ICC shipping case is either ).

For film shipped on cores but not in individual cans, I strongly advise wrapping each roll tightly in a clean polyethylene bag (e.g., a clear plastic wastebasket liner). The rolls should be interleaved with corregated cardboard disks to minimize dishing. Be sure the rolls are securely taped so they don't loosen or unwind.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-17-2001, 05:42 PM:
 
These damned Technicolor reels are everywhere! CAVEAT EMPTOR:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1409876203

Danger, Will Robinson!!

Aaron


 

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-17-2001, 06:03 PM:
 
Yeah, the high bid is $2.50 but the shipping is $4.00! They are paying more in shipping than the thing is worth!

Then again, the seller's name is "boobookittymilkpepsi"! Note the Laverne and Shirley reference? Could it be a coincidence that the high bidder's name is "tv@theriver.com"?

Sounds fishy to me. But then again SOME stupid chick payed $1,000 for a piece of half-eaten French Toast left over from the breakfast plate of one of the Back Street Boys!!!

I guess I'm starting to hit that age where I'm "too old to understand".
 

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 06-21-2001, 07:02 PM:
 
Well, its been almost 5 months now and I'm adding to this thread because a couple people have emailed me asking if my cut scared. Yes it did, its about half an inch long and right next to my eye. Great timing considering I'm getting married in 3 months!
 
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 06-22-2001, 02:02 AM:
 
hey Rachel,

Even with the little scar you are still a pretty young lady. Good luck with your future wedding. Now you have something to tell your children and grand children when they ask. Just glad it didn't hit you in your eye. You were very lucky. You must have a guardian angel watching over you.
 

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-22-2001, 02:30 AM:
 
Did you save that actual reel? When you break down movies from TES, do you now make it a point to throw them across the room first? (I'm still surprised you haven't prosecuted.)


 

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 06-22-2001, 03:52 AM:
 
Yeah...it would save you having to go to the bank to get a loan to build your new mansion.
 
Posted by Michael Pace (Member # 553) on 06-22-2001, 07:26 AM:
 
What do the Technicolor reels look like. Has anybody posted a picture that clearly shows the problems?

The Fox spools were prominent for a little while, they were the ones that had cores in the center with clip on reel sides.

We commonly get the films on cores in cardboard boxes but LARA CROFT - TOMB RAIDER arrived in metal film trunks.

In 30 years of winding film I must admit that I have had no real trouble with spools or cores. I have handled film that has not even had a core of any sort, this has presented a challenge but has not
caused any real problem. The worst that has happened is a few minor flesh burns while stopping a spool too fast.

I have also taken off from cores using an adapter made to fit onto a standard 5/16" shaft and taking up on spools.

Michael.


 

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-22-2001, 11:27 AM:
 
Go to the reviews section and click on the Technicolor depot review. There are pictures of their reels there.
 
Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 06-22-2001, 01:26 PM:
 
Ya, I still have the infamous reel that hit me....its actually hanging up in my room

Brad, you must understand....the key is to only throw the broken reels across the room, if we break the few good ones then what will we have? We all know technicolor won't buy us any new ones!
 

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-22-2001, 01:32 PM:
 
Actually, I've resorted to using a split reel and handling the film on cores on most prints coming from TES and the occasional TES reel that arrives in a print from the ETS depot. The only reels that can be trusted anymore are the reels like Fox and Paramount are using.
 
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 06-25-2001, 04:39 PM:
 
Boy am I glad not to have been the only person to recognize this problem! I really wanted to say something but was concerned about the open mouth-insert foot syndrome!-not to mention creating political problems for myself! I have experienced all of the problems on this post, and have a lot of sympathy for you!
 
Posted by David Whitbeck (Member # 894) on 06-30-2001, 04:22 AM:
 
Technicolor employs a bunch of idiots. Although... I once had a ring fly off the table at me. I was lucky and it missed, frightening.
 
Posted by David Whitbeck (Member # 894) on 06-30-2001, 04:23 AM:
 
Aren't there Technicolor people that read these posts? Oh well, what's said is said.
 
Posted by Gordon Hedges III (Member # 863) on 06-30-2001, 10:38 PM:
 
At a Mid-Atlantic NATO meeting a couple of months ago I met the manager of Exhibition Relations of Technicolor. His name is Brad Carroll. I don't know if his name has been posted before, but he tried to answer everybody's questions ranging from print delivery to split reels. I told him about this forum and he has known about us, but he needs to get the "OK" from his boss(es) to even reply on this site. He took a lot of from many of us, but still was able to answer questions when he could. Try calling Technicolor and see if you can get a hold of him or another representative other than the ones that just answer the phones. Just a suggestion and a direction to see if we can at least solve most of the complaints we come across "in the field".
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-01-2001, 03:15 AM:
 
It certainly does not appear that TES is interested in fixing the problem of defective shipping reels, probably because TES is obviously "Not the brightest bulb in the box".

What it is going to take is several massive law suits to snap their butts around when someone gets very seriously injured or killed by their defective reels. It is not an matter of "IF" it is going to happen. It is just a matter of "WHEN" it will happen.

TES, take heed, please. We all know you TES brass-assed lurkers are out there reading these forums.

Paul G. Thompson


 

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 07-01-2001, 01:47 PM:
 
Then take the initiative and junk those bad reels. Ship the film back on core, safely wrapped in a plastic bag.
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-01-2001, 02:14 PM:
 
Jeffry, perhaps that should be done. I thought almost exactly what you did, but since TES probably has a billion of those things, they would just keep sending them.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-01-2001, 02:49 PM:
 
That's what I've been doing. If there is something wrong with a TES reel, then it gets sent back on a core and the reel gets promptly thrown in the trash. TES certainly isn't going to watch out for the safety of the operators who have to handle their reels, so everyone who handles film here needs to take that initiative and get those reels out of circulation ourselves! TES' policy of restricting Brad Carroll from even making a public comment here is proof that TES does not give a shit about any of us. TES can deny that in their "fluff" articles about themselves, but the bottom line is they do not care about anything nor anyone except making money.


 

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-01-2001, 05:10 PM:
 
Brad, very well said.


 

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-01-2001, 08:31 PM:
 
At least it appears that they have _one_ employee who actually seems to care and might be willing to try to help the situation. It's unfortunate that this sort of attitude is being squashed by politics and a "big company" mentality which prevents him from engaging in a dialogue with his customers...
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-01-2001, 08:31 PM:
 
Having talked to Brad Carroll before, I can vouch that at least he himself (rather than the company) seems to genuinely care about our concerns. But, he can only do so much. Never thought of the fact that his bosses wouldn't let him reply or participate here, but it doesn't surprise me. They obviously don't realize or care that their money-grubbing practices are resulting in DAMAGED FILM which results in BAD EXPERIENCES for moviegoers, which translates eventually into LOWER TICKET SALES.
 
Posted by Gordon Hedges III (Member # 863) on 07-01-2001, 10:55 PM:
 
Yes, it does seem like Brad Carroll is one employee who cares out of the company itself. And maybe whatever we say will go so far as "we will see what we can do" type of response. But wouldn't it become such a bigger achievement if we went straight to the studios themselves and explain what TES's inconsistencies produce to their products? But I might be getting ahead of myself. Why, some of their clients are the huge studios that just pump out thousands upon thousands of prints a month via TES and at a reasonable price... IMHO.
 
Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 07-02-2001, 02:38 AM:
 
<<the key is to only throw the broken reels across the room, if we break the few good ones then what will we have? We all know technicolor won't buy us any new ones!>>

actually, i did have technicolor send me empty reels to replace a couple of completely useless reels i got this week.
not sure yet if theyll charge us for them.
The reels i had to replace were the kind fox, paramount, and warner bros. use.
I had one reel of BABY BOY and a print of CRAZY/BEAUTIFUL that had the same problem.
I lift on the reel flange (i think thats what its called) and it is the only piect that comes out.

But are we being too hard on technicolor?
Ive gotten movies shipped from ETS in Dallas that have also had broken reels in the past.
The depots should be making sure that their movies are being shipped on good reels, but why put all the blame on technicolor?
 

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2001, 12:24 PM:
 
I don't think we are being too hard on TES. If TES really cared, corrective action would have been taken a long time ago.
 
Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 07-03-2001, 12:47 AM:
 
True, but what I meant was are we being too hard on them by singling them out when I know they arent the only depot at fault.
Does anyone else have this problem with their non-technicolor movies?
I know I've had it.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-03-2001, 03:14 AM:
 
Well let's see. I am going to guess here, but I would say that probably 2% of all reels from ETS Dallas are broken. Not too bad considering.

As for TES, I would say that 35-40% of the reels are broken. That's just unacceptable.

My only major beef with ETS Dallas is the fact that they cannot put the damned reels together properly. Obviously they have no idea that if they do not line up the two registration holes on the reel flanges with the two registration pins in the core that most projectionists will have to disassemble the reels at the theater and then reassemble them properly just so they can be placed on the MUT for breakdown. (Meaning any MUT with a drive pin as opposed to a key on the shaft.) Assuming each reel has a lifespan of "X" number of disassemblies and reassemblies, this is basically cutting the lifespan of the reels down by half! Still, ETS seems to at least toss broken reels, whereas TES does not care.
 

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 07-03-2001, 11:37 AM:
 
James,

I don't think anyone on this forum is being too hard on Technicolor. Sure, ETS isn't perfect but comparably they are the better of the two, hands down. Trust me here, having a reel fly at your face, cutting you and giving you a huge bruise, not to mention a permanent scar is not something that causes your thoughts of that particular company to get any better. There was no reason that Technicolor should have sent this reel out to any theater....it had just gone thru one of its famous inspections (we all know what good these do). Is it that they are too cheap, too lazy, or that they just don't care? I'd like to know the reason why I have a permanent scar next to my eye when this reel could have been easily taken out upon quality inspection. If they were doing their job this reel would not have been sent back out. Just the same old Technicolor quality I've been receiving since I started in this business. ETS at least takes out the bad reels when they are spotted, that is the difference.

 

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 07-04-2001, 11:23 PM:
 
Yeah, you both have a point.
Come to think of it, I have had far less broken reels from ETS that with TES and I havent called ETS for a new empty reel to replace COMPLETELY broken reels like i had to twice last week.
I retract my earlier statement.
 
Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 10-05-2001, 12:45 AM:
 
Technicolor has a new development in shipping reels. The spindle hole is perfectly round, with no notch to engage the key in a rewind spindle shaft. That is, it is missing dimension E in ANSI/SMPTE 192. 5 out of 6 reels of a print of The Man Who Wasn't There had round spindle holes. Only one reel had a proper spindle hole.

I called Technicolor. They said they would send me some reels by Monday. I've heard that before and never seen reels.

I disassembled a reel and noticed an excess of plastic where the notch should be. I was able to create my own notch by jamming the reel onto the spindle, but it's easier to just use a split reel.
 

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-05-2001, 04:15 AM:
 
Nah! I wouldn't bother calling Technicolor about reels without keyways in them. They make a tool to help with that. It's readily available in just about any hardware or home improvement store...

It's called a cordless drill
 

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-05-2001, 04:23 AM:
 
Wow. Not bad. You were able to avoid those special reels for 18 months!

Do a search for the thread in the Film Handler's Forum titled:
Breakthroughs in Quality Assurance (aka technicolor puts the ASS in ASSurance)

(I'll bump it to the top.)


 

Posted by Bob Healey (Member # 1003) on 10-05-2001, 04:41 PM:
 
Still trying to figure how this one happened. Just built a print of a dreamworks feature, 5 reels, from Technicolor, had a black reel that did not stay together at all, a black reel where one flange stayed attach, gray reel that refused to stay together and had the key rounded out so it wobbled like crazy, a clear reel with no key for the spindle, and a 20th century fox reel in perfect condition. Go figure
 
Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 10-05-2001, 05:27 PM:
 
a few times, my fine friends at technicolor sent reels that had cracks in them. of course the films were delivered late, and to the wrong building on the campus here, and i was in a hurry to set it up. as i inspected the print((s),this happend on 2 or 3 occasions) half the reel broke into small pieces, flew through the air and came darn near lodging into various parts of my person. of course everything was "integrity inspected." every once in a while i like to take out my technicolor exhibitor guide, just for a laugh.
 
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 10-05-2001, 05:28 PM:
 
Here is how close technicolor checks there films....We had a print of patch adams except that reel #2 is reel #2 all right...for star trek: insurrection...that is a paramount feature not even handled by techinicolor patch adams was universal wich is handled by technicolor.
 
Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 10-05-2001, 05:34 PM:
 
talk about a plot twist?!?
 
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-06-2005, 10:48 PM:
 

It has been 1401 days since the last post.


 
Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 08-06-2005, 10:48 PM:
 
Just bumping this back up to the top because I have recently dealt with more reels of the same "crappy" quality. I will be the first to admit, the quality of the reels being sent out really improved for quite a while there... Although the last couple I have dealt with were cracked and falling apart. (I am the GM of my theater and do not do projection on a regular basis anymore, I just help out).

Has anyone else noticed an improvement with technicolors reels in the last couple of years?

*For anyone that doesn't know, I started this thread. I was formally Rachel Carter.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-07-2005, 12:24 AM:
 
The last few TES prints we've had have come with the spacers, the new orange reels, and have generally been in nice shape.

ETS prints on the other hand, have begun to suck the way the TES prints used to. Reels falling apart, ends not taped down, etc.

Of course there are more ETS prints these days since Sony went back to them.
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-07-2005, 02:08 AM:
 
Kinda funny why TECH had to change that orange reel three times to suit whoever made the requests..I had no problem with even the first orange one that came out.

..but, oh well ... who asked me. Guess I can adjust to whatever is sent out and live with it.

But, I've noticed that TECH is getting smart in placing the DVD case in between the flanges of that "spacer" reel so the case doesn't get all busted up.

Now, all we have to do is get ETS to drop those plastic box shipments (since when the reels are placed in, the DVD case gets all busted up to no end..) which is a bit** to carry up the stairs at times.

Reels falling apart-slap them back together..your way.

-Monte
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-07-2005, 08:43 AM:
 
Monte, the idea was to create a reel that everyone liked. That's why they made the multiple revisions to it.

I agree about the ETS "Fox boxes" though. They suck, suck, suck!!! I think they like those boxes better because the entire package is in ONE box, so they don't have to keep up with 2 or 3 cans per shipment. Clearly the ETS guys have never had to carry prints all packed in one box up flights of stairs to projection booths though.
 
Posted by Jason Whitlock (Member # 3077) on 08-07-2005, 11:05 AM:
 
the cardboard boxes do suck.. i'm surprised none of them have fallen apart on me yet..

I do like the plastic ones, as they are usually lighter than the metal cans, and are easier on the hands with the wider handles, but it sometimes takes a hammer just to get the thing to latch closed. We had one box I literally had to wrap packing tape around because the latch wasn't lining up at all
 
Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 08-07-2005, 11:38 AM:
 
Speaking of the ETS Cardboard boxes, just recently I recieved one that was ripped all the way down the corner. Instead of scraping the box for a new one. They put so much tape on it a Sears Christmas wraper would be jelous. FREAKING IDIOTS!
 
Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 08-07-2005, 11:40 AM:
 
Technicolor does seem to have gotten its act together. It's been a while since I've gotten a broken reel from them, the spacers seem to help. The Fox boxes from ETS all seem to now have duct tape holding the lock tab in. One bax a few weeks ago had 3 bands of duct tape around it and two across the bottom because it was splitting at the flap folds. Smaller 4 reel boxes would be much easier to handle and last longer too.
 
Posted by Steven J Hart (Member # 2340) on 08-07-2005, 05:21 PM:
 
I'm not going to cut down the "Fox Box" too much. I just pick the box up from the bottom with both hands and carry it up the three flights of stairs to my booth. I don't think thats any harder than carrying two beat up cans that are usually heavier empty than the film contained within.

I've found that prints shipped in these boxes are cleaner. They are generally not covered with cardboard fuzz like the average print shipped in a conventional can. It also costs just a touch over half as much to ship a print back to ETS in one box than it costs to ship a similar print in two cans.

These boxes are not the greatest thing, but they do seem to get the job done.
Steve
 
Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 08-07-2005, 09:04 PM:
 
quote: Jason Whitlock
I do like the plastic ones, as they are usually lighter than the metal cans, and are easier on the hands with the wider handles, but it sometimes takes a hammer just to get the thing to latch closed. We had one box I literally had to wrap packing tape around because the latch wasn't lining up at all
Agree about those big shipping cases, I could live with cans but these are very nice.
But I've got to say [fu] Fox boxes.
I've had those stupid plastic handles rip out of the top and send the print falling down the stairs before.
 
Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 08-08-2005, 03:09 AM:
 
Down with the cardboard boxes. [thumbsdown] I always get one or two of them that have no handle. I cannot stand those pieces of crap for a film container! And yes, I've also received boxes torn down the corner.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-08-2005, 12:33 PM:
 
The key to managing those stupid boxes is, don't use the handle. Pick it up from the bottom. When loading up the box for ship-out, I set the empty box on the rewind bench, and place the reels into it. Then I can just grab the box from the bottom to carry it without bending over. I unload the box the same way. No bending = better.

When shipping the boxes, I always put a few strips of tape across the bottom (good packaging tape, not masking or duct tape). If the bottom drops out in shipment and the film goes into a puddle, UPS will claim "improper packing" and won't pay your claim. I tape up the top really well, too. The depot can get a #$&*ing razor blade.
 
Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 08-08-2005, 01:36 PM:
 
Hah! Agreed, Mike.

Something I should add about the big plastic shipping cases (not the boxes) is that the latch dealie on the front is a pain to get latched again if you don't know how to do it.
Firstly, the lid has to be aligned perfectly and then, just like a cheap toolbox, you have to press in the middle of the latch to get it up and over the bar it latches to.
Some are easier than others but I've never not been able to get one closed right.
Hope that helps.
 
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-26-2007, 10:00 PM:
 

It has been 748 days since the last post.


 
Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 08-26-2007, 10:00 PM:
 
I haven't been especially critical of TES in these posts, but this past Thursday really pissed us off. Received a print of Evan Almighty that would't play continuously in SRD, switched from 6 to F to Reverted to DD constantly. Call TES and requested a replacement print, giving the exact reason for the request, was told that we would get a call from them telling when to expect the next print to arrive. Got the call but it from their rep. suggesting that we just play it analog. After much discussion and a conversation with a manager TES agreed to send another print, the replacement played in DD the pic was so scratched we requested yet another. Number 3 is OK. The issue I guess is why is it ok to request a replacement for a bad picture but not OK to request a replacement for a defective sound track?
 
Posted by David Graves (Member # 4069) on 08-27-2007, 12:42 AM:
 
Battling TES for replacement prints took so much of my time it wasn't funny. You're even worse off if the film has run for a bit.

Ran an AMC 24 a while back, and was religious about never showing a scratched print. One of the booth kids was careless and put a tiny hairline down a print of NATIONAL TREASURE in the fifth week of the run. You could barely see it, but you could see it, so I ordered a new print. It came in the next day, so beat up that even the newest kid could see before even building it. We ordered another. And another.

By the time all was said and done, we had SIX prints of the film sitting downstairs, and every single one was in far worse condition than the one I was trying to replace. It was a nightmare. The only positive spin was that when the kid who had scratched the print came in the next day, I had 12 cans ready for him to carry to the lobby, with the explanation of "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SCRATCH OUR PRINTS!".
 
Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 08-27-2007, 02:18 AM:
 
I find it interesting that ETS has started using cardboard. I'd rather work with Fox Boxes than the stupid plastic square reel cans that ETS is using.

On a side note:

ETS and Deluxe ship their digital hard drives in corrugated plastic boxes that look similar to the Fox box. Even the material is the same silver color.

Technicolor ships their hard drives in a pelican-type case that is of course.... orange in color.

AccessIT ships their hard drives in true Pelican branded cases. They are bright yellow, and come with two extra zip-ties to secure the case when it is shipped back.
 
Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 08-27-2007, 02:19 AM:
 
quote:
I had 12 cans ready for him to carry to the lobby, with the explanation of "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SCRATCH OUR PRINTS!".
You, sir, are my new hero.
 




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