Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: REPLACEMENT LED's

This is topic REPLACEMENT LED's in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001895

Posted by Francis Casey (Member # 514) on 02-04-2001, 03:30 PM:

Hello all
I contacted Lonny at Dolby about getting replacement LED's...for everyones information , below is my question to him and his reply .

" Hi Lonny
I have a question for you . Is the LED in the Cat 701 the same as is used in Component engineering , Kelmar and other makes of rverse scan readers ?
I am trying to find the least expensive source of replacement LED's . I just received 12 LED's that i ordered ( from Strong ) for one of our theatres where they are starting to loose steam ( over 9000 hours on
them ) . The cost in canadian dollars $4000 that is about $333 each canadian or about $250 or $275 US !
What do you folks charge for your LED's ? Is there a way to buy them direct from the manufacturer ? "

Lonny's reply :

" Francis:
The LED's are the same for everybody because they all come from us. You can purchase replacement LED's from us directly if you like. The part number is DPN 32075 and it lists for US$60.00. If you are replacing the LED in a Cat. No. 701 then the best thing is to do an RXO on the whole LED assembly. If done that way the DPN is 83308 and it would be under warranty. "

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-04-2001, 03:35 PM:

I just received a price update from Kelmar, the replacement LEDs are list priced at $150.00 now. (they were @ $215.00!) They say Dolby has dropped the price! I would retail these for approx. $115.00 each...

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 02-05-2001, 09:23 AM:

Component Engineering's current List price is US$145.00 for replacements. The final cost will depend upon your dealer. We normally supply them with the leads clipped to fit our plug-in mounting, but if you are ordering them for other readers you should specify that you don't want the leads cut.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 02-05-2001, 11:54 AM:

LED'S that emit white light are now in use.
Radio Shack sells them for a few cents or more.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-05-2001, 12:36 PM:

Matthew:

You do NOT want to use "white light" LEDs, as they will not be compatible with future prints having cyan dye analog tracks, which require RED LEDs. AFAIK, none of the reader manufacturers have certified the use of other LEDs.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-05-2001, 08:44 PM:

John,

Not that I'm advocating the use of RS white LEDs...

But what future of cyan tracks? Heck, I just opened a new 6-plex and there were only two prints that even had high-magenta. Not even Warner Bros is using High-Magenta all of the time.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-05-2001, 08:57 PM:

I had a call from a customer in California last Friday who stated he had received a print with the CYAN track!(I forgot to ask the title) Unfortunately, none of the six screens at the complex have been converted! He verified it was cyan (greenish blue) colored and they tried to play it with poor sound, more noise than signal, he called the booker who in tern found that 100 prints were sent at random last week to see actual theatre compatability! Obviously this one isn't!
It appears that Cyan is on the way....

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-06-2001, 05:55 AM:

John --- the trade test of cyan dye tracks was indeed scheduled to occur early this year, with about 25 cyan dyetrack prints being made. BUT, they were supposed to only be sent to theatres known to be equipped with red LED readers. If your report of a theatre without red LED getting a cyan dyetrack is correct, the errant prints need to be tracked down to be sure they only go to theatres with red LEDs. Can you get the title, print number and theatre information?

Has anyone else received a print with a cyan colored analog soundtrack?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-06-2001, 06:42 AM:

Assuming the existence of red LED-equipped soundheads, what, if any, alignment or other changes are necessary to properly reproduce cyan tracks? Can a theatre show color prints with silver or high-magenta tracks, B&W prints with silver tracks, IB prints with silver tracks, and color prints with cyan tracks all without modification or alignment changes?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-06-2001, 07:53 AM:

Kodak's website has information regarding the implementation of cyan dye analog soundtracks:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/dyetrack.shtml#sound

A cyan dye track will have unacceptable signal-to-noise when played on a white light or infrared reader. On a red LED reader, the cyan track will have about -2dB signal-to-noise compared to a standard dye+silver track on the same red LED reader, so noise reduction (e.g., Dolby SR) is recommended.

Traditional color print soundtracks (cyan + magenta + silver) had a slightly different cross-modulation distortion optimization between white light and red LED readers, and needed to be optimized for one or the other. For example, if an old soundtrack were optimized for a white light reader, it could have slightly more XM-distortion on a red LED reader, and vice-versa. The interim "high magenta" (magenta + silver) track is more compatible with both readers.

Jess Daily of the UCLA Film Archives ran extensive comparitive testing of a variety of older soundtracks on white light and red LED readers, and found no major compatibility problems. As with any analog soundtrack, different recording levels may require adjustment of the fader between different prints. I assume Dolby and others will make alignment films specifically for the cyan dye tracks.

Current dye + silver soundtracks require application of a viscous, caustic B&W developer to the soundtrack area during processing of the prints. If the developer splashes or bleeds onto the picture area, silver is redeveloped, leaving a grayish blotch or stain. If the silver soundtrack application "skips", there will be pops or dropouts or "whooshing" in the analog sound.
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/h242/h2402_03.shtml#159763
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/h249/h2409_05.shtml

Laboratories efficiently recover most of the silver in the film from the fixer solution. But the silver in the soundtrack remains in the film, and goes into the environment if prints go into a landfill or are improperly incinerated without silver recovery from the fly ash.
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/h245/h24056.shtml#164271

Industry adoption of cyan dye analog soundtracks will eliminate the print quality problems associated with silver soundtrack application, and reduce the amount of silver released to the environment.

Reverse scan red LED readers have advantages that can justify their installation for all current soundtracks. The compatibility with future cyan dye soundtracks is a bonus.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-06-2001, 04:26 PM:

>>"Industry adoption of cyan dye analog soundtracks will eliminate the print quality problems associated with silver soundtrack application, and reduce the amount of silver released to the environment."<<

Nope, just create new ones with an inferior track.

The reported cyan distribution to a non-red reader theatre shows the kind of bumbling science that has been going on with the whole cyan red-reader agenda.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"