Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: ShoWest

This is topic ShoWest in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001911

Posted by John Gordon (Member # 523) on 02-09-2001, 03:50 PM:

For those visiting ShoWest, I invite you to stop by our booth for a chat and of course to see our products. Be sure to also stop in and see all the other exhibitors as well. And if you get the chance and want to see a huge cinema set-up, go to the convention floor where the screenings are held. It's not the best environment, but have you ever been in a auditorium where 80 QSC amplifiers are powering the room--and yes, this is one screen. And yes, that is eighty (80)amplifiers.

For those interested in having a training session to learn the workings of our DCM crossover/booth monitor, DCA amps and DSP-3 modules, come see me at the our booth. Training can be at the booth or arrangements can be made to train off the show floor.

And for my final plug, for those visiting ShoWest, if you would like to plan an extra day or two prior to the show, Feb. 26 - Mar. 2, or after the show, Mar. 9th, and want to visit sourthern Calif., you are welcome to come by for a visit and tour of our factory. My only request is to please call ahead. And if you have more time, this would also be a good time to visit the new Disny California Park, which is only 8 miles up the road from QSC, to see the three movie related attractions (see Disney post).

------------------
John Gordon
Cinema Applications Engineer
QSC Audio Products, Inc.
1675 MacArthur Blvd.
Costa Mesa, CA 92626
(714)754-6175
john_gordon@qscaudio.com
http://www.qscaudio.com

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-09-2001, 06:18 PM:

Ohferchrisake. 80 amplifiers? What does this have to do with reality on this planet? If one won't work to impress me, will 80?

I don't doubt that you have a good product, but this is the type of stuff that has made me stay away from the exhibition floor the past two years.

My product is aimed at independents and small circuits. Yours appears to be aimed at the Bronx. How about a simple link to your website that details why you are good?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-09-2001, 06:52 PM:

John see you there

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-09-2001, 06:54 PM:

I'll be there for sure.... save a couple T-shirts for me?

-Aaron

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 02-09-2001, 07:26 PM:

I'm sure that everybody will be able to hear the boom box that the union will plug in while they set this room. But I wouldn't want to listen to a movie through it. 80 amps seems like overkill but what the hell, QSC has lots and as Tim Allen is fond of saying 'There's no such thing as too much power. Grunt grunt grunt!

I look forward to hearing it. That is a huge room and I have has some experience in huge rooms. Sometimes it takes multiple speaker arrays and delays to make the system listenable. This is an arena and I am sure that the acoustics are less than ideal.

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-09-2001, 10:49 PM:

Hi John! I will definitely stop in! Is Barry going to be on hand? Anyway, for thoise who think 80 amps is quite enough, you must take into account various factors of filling a room that seats 4-5000 people! There are various time delays, and zones and lost of level adjustments to be made to insure a smooth sound throughout such a large area. Actually 80 amplifiers isn't to large a number! Some outdoor arenas & stadiums can employ half again as many! So I wouldn't worry about 'ear splitting' noise! I am sure if QSC has anything to do with it, the sound will be a smooth as silk! (except for a renagade producer / director or two!)

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-09-2001, 11:08 PM:

Yes, that's what I was thinking... 80 amps is not for loudness, it's for control.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-10-2001, 09:36 AM:

"There are various time delays, and zones and lost of level adjustments to be made to insure a smooth sound throughout such a large area."

LOL When I first read this, I thought "Time Zones?! It's _that_ big?!"

I don't doubt the need for delays, etc., since as a teenager I used to pull wire for my father, who wired a large school gymnasium for a PA system. I had nightmares for weeks about miles long 70vt audio cable and his attempts to reduce echo and delays in a large room that had nothing but hard surfaces.

I'm sure everyone knows their stuff, and I'm sure "state of the art" has changed many times over from those days when toolkits included two suitcase sized cases filled with vacuum tubes. Still, to me, there is something macabre about using 80 amplifiers to power a single room. If California ever gets word of this, they'll pressure the crew at Boulder Dam to shut it down.

Posted by Roger Frazee (Member # 640) on 02-10-2001, 01:09 PM:

John:

I am looking forward to seeing you, Barry, and the rest of the QSC gang at ShoWest.

Making the convention hall sound good is, indeed, a challenge. I know you guys are up to it.

Roger

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-10-2001, 07:26 PM:

IMHO, the product reel screenings at ShoWest always run the levels way too high --- almost ear splitting volume.

I guess the distributors want to be sure to drown out any conversation at the tables.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-10-2001, 08:53 PM:

Wish I could be there to see it.

QSC amplifiers are one of the finest in the industry.

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 02-11-2001, 10:07 AM:

Those product reel sound levels are determined by the distributors. A studio executive previews their product reel and sets the sound level at the "proper" loudness.

It's probably like trailers. Nobody wants their product reel to be quieter than everyone elses.

Plus, there seems to be a "perfect" sound level that really draws you into the experience. Below that level the sound is just "there" but doesn't have the impact of sweeping you into the motion picture experience. Above that level the sound is painful. I've always wondered if this level varies among individuals and varies with age.

I was part of Ultratech's projection team and ran those ShoWest product reels for several years.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-11-2001, 06:10 PM:

Who's projecting the product reels at ShoWest this year? Ultratech? Boston Light & Sound? Are they all on film?

I was very disappointed at the product reels screened at the ShowEast functions in Orlando. They tried to use Digital Projection with NTSC video material (not even sure they used a line doubler or progressive scan, or any enhancement). IMHO, most of it looked and sounded like s--t!

The film screenings at the AMC Pleasure Island were fine.

Posted by John Gordon (Member # 523) on 02-13-2001, 04:57 PM:

Okay, here is the scoop on the ShoWest product reel screenings.
The screenings will be held in the Paris Ballroom. The room is huge. Roughly 380’ x 225’ with ceiling height ranging from 30’ to 34’. This is roughly 85,000 sq. ft. or 2.7 million cubic feet. Installation is by Boston Light & Sound.

Speakers: EV
Screen: X-Arrays.
Surrounds: X-Arrays (bi-amped) and SX-300’s
Subs: 16 TL 880’s
Amps: QSC DCA series
42 DCA 1622
26 DCA 2422
12 DCA 3422

There will be a total of 7 sound racks: 2 in the booth which will include all processing and EQ, 1 rack on left wall for left surround, 1 rack on right wall for right surround, 3 racks up front for screen and subs, and the final rack will be in the booth or placed near the back wall.

Audio distribution will be via QSC RAVE units (Routing Audio Via Ethernet). The RAVE can send 64 channels of uncompressed 20bit, 48kHz digital audio through a single CAT 5 cable—no multi cable runs here. The units will consist of:
8 RAVE 160 (16 analog output channels, ea. unit)
8 RAVE 161 (16 analog input channels, ea. unit)
(total system, up to 128 channels of distributed audio)
Misc. Ethernet hubs and switches- Fiber optic and Cat. 5

For the numbers game, each sub will have one DCA 2422 bridged for a total of 38,400 watts. The total system is roughly 137,000 watts. This set-up will be similar to last year. During the product reel screening last year of Titan A.E., real pyro was used for effects. But, the sound system beat the pyro in sheer power and impact.

Boston Light & Sound will also do the set-up in the Jubilee Theater at Bally’s (Banquet Capacity for 1000) and at Le Theatre De Arts (meeting capacity for 1,200) at Paris.

Thanks go to Boston Light & Sound, EV, and QSC.

------------------
John Gordon
Cinema Applications Engineer
QSC Audio Products, Inc.
1675 MacArthur Blvd.
Costa Mesa, CA 92626
(714)957-7100
john_gordon@qscaudio.com
http://www.qscaudio.com

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 02-17-2001, 11:47 AM:

Ultratech is no more. They closed at the end of 1999.

Posted by Larry Shaw (Member # 388) on 02-22-2001, 06:56 PM:

Jerry:

The designs for this (and AFAIK all previous) ShoWest ballroom stereo "product reel" presentations have originated in my office, so blame me, not QSC. But, as those who know me well will testify, I am truly a lazy sack of s**t, so if there was a way to do the Paris Ballroom well without using all those amps, I'd be doing it!

John Gordon has done a good job describing the load of stuff we use, let me just point out why. The room is really, really big in length and width, but it is way too low. (Of course, prior to the room's construction, we were brought out to consult with the architects on how to best provide for the projection of film, and of course not one of our suggestions were incorporated.)

To get even coverage we use multiple triamped stage speakers with a variety of "Q's", that is, different horn patterns for near, middle and far from the screen.

For the surrounds we use biamped speakers with Q's for near and far on many surround time delay circuits.

The 5.1 channels get divided by zone of coverage, then by horn pattern, then get bi- or tri-amped, time delayed to correct for cabinet placement, eq'd parametrically, blah, blah, blah. It's the need to use all these specially tailored zones, which is in part due to the low ceiling, that forces us to use so many amp channels.

As to your comments about "What does this have to do with reality...", I guess its kinda like the connection between NASCAR and buying the family minivan, one hopes that somthing is learned in the over-the-top activities that finds its way into the everyday product.

John Pytlak:

You're right they're always too loud. I try to mitigate that by two methods. First, by using adequate power we try to prevent the distortion that is what most folks really mean by "ear splitting volume". Second with the system described above we're able to achive a suprisingly even level throughout the entire room. Last year actual objective measurements indicated no channel varied by more than 4 dBc in the seating area. This eliminates the "suit" standing near the projection booth from hearing a low level and demanding that the system is cranked to a level that makes the ears of the people in the first 50 tables bleed. Still, if they're paying way into six figures to feed rubber chicken to these people, the rule seems to be "Its My Party, And I'll (run it so f'in loud they'll) Cry If I Want To" Sorry...there's no excuse for that sort of thing.....

I agree the ShowEast video was lame. At ShoWest this time there's only one film "product reel" so far, and one on video. We are running some film (TBD) in Jubilee and Theatre De Arts also. BL&S is doing the technical stuff again, aided as always by Local 720 folks.

Jeffry:

We try to adress the "studio executive" setting the level too loud by electropolitical means; we have the controls run by an individual capable of coerceing the "suits" into rational thought due to his position in the industry.

Sorry I blabbed on so long. You can come kick me at booth 1617.

-Larry

Posted by John Gordon (Member # 523) on 02-22-2001, 07:24 PM:

To put the size of the Paris Ballroom into perspective, it is larger than a football field.

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 02-22-2001, 07:30 PM:

I'll be at Show West on Sunday (giving the DTS-ECP portion of the DTS class)and Monday for DTS booth duty. DTS will be doing several screenings but I do not have the list in front of me. I know that one is a New Line film. I *believe* (could be wrong here) the other is MGM.

Karen at DTS