This is topic Motiograph in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 02-10-2001, 09:56 PM:
How do you tell the age of a Motiograph? Who has the oldest? How manny are in operation.
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-10-2001, 10:15 PM:
The first Motiograph was actually called the 'Optigraph' The #1 model was introduced in 1896 by it's make Alvah C. Roebuck (Of Sears & Roebuck) He founded Enterprise Optical Comapny in 1895. There were three upgrades to the Optigraph with the final one in 1906. The first 'Motiograph' was the #1 model in 1911
with several upgrades into the teens. Then Motio intruduced the model F in 1921 this was a squre looking unit with lots of glass in the covers, it had a front shutter, it was followed by the H & HU in the late 20's then the familiar K in the 30's then the model AA and AAA in the late 40's. The early machines were of the open gear design and were quite small. The K was the first fully enclosed machine and the first with a standard serial numbering system, Look at the serial number, the first two digits are the year, the second two the month, and the third set is the machine number. thus a AAA model that has
'5410566' as a serial was made in Oct. 1954 and was number 566. Send me a picture of the machine in question! I'll be glad to ID it for you!------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 02-11-2001, 06:22 AM:
Hi John,Any way to tell manufacturing date on my Brenkert BX-40's? S/N's 5966 & 5967.
Jeff
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-11-2001, 07:59 AM:
Yeah, John. I got a couple of Brenkert heads sitting on the kitchen floor. If I give you the serial numbers, can you tell me when they were built?
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-11-2001, 11:13 PM:
Actually I have a Brenkert number list somewhere in my archives, but the Brenkerts were like Century, in other words, they had no actual order to their numbers as they numbered machine castings as they came off the line, so a BX40 with serial#2566 would be the next one behind a BX-100 serial #2565! Go ahead and email the numbers, as I can probably give you an idea within a year of when they were made. For you old Simplex nuts, I do have a year by year starting serial number list from 1911 - 1954 that includes the standard, super, E-7, SP, XL, SH-1000, SH-1007 & SH-1020.------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 02-12-2001, 06:06 AM:
John, yes I sure would like to see the Brenkert list if you find it. My SH 1000 is serial #2861, the other is missing the nameplate 
thanks, Jeff
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 02-12-2001, 08:09 AM:
I've got 4 Brenkert BX-60's that I've always been curious about their birthdays?What's the best way to tell?
------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-12-2001, 12:50 PM:
Jeff, your SH-1000 was made during year 1941,
The serial number is usually stamped on the main casting on the gear side at the rear of the soundhead (near the mounting pad) I'll keep looking for the Brenkert list!!!
Barry, just let me know what the serial numbers are...(IF NAMEPLATES ARE MISSING, THE bRENKERTS ARE STAMPED INSIDE THE FILM COMPARTMENT EITHER JUST ABOVE OR BELOW THE LENS OPENING IN FRONT)------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-12-2001, 01:21 PM:
John said: "Jeff, your SH-1000 was made during year 1941."That's 60 years old! Film equipment is like the Energizer Bunny --- it just keeps on running, and running, and running. 
You can play a 35mm print of "Casablanca" made in 1942, or "Hannibal", released last week.
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 02-12-2001, 01:59 PM:
John P. Wrote: "You can play a 35mm print of "Casablanca" made in 1942, or "Hannibal", released last week." Exactly! And as you are sitting there able to count the strands hair on people's heads on the projected image, you would never know know the age of the machinery. What a great system it is, to stand up to the test of time of over a century!!
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-12-2001, 10:09 PM:
John: Simplex E-7 Ser No. E4253? 
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-12-2001, 10:47 PM:
Paul, it was the 323 rd. E-7 made in 1943! ------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-12-2001, 11:47 PM:
Jeeze, John. That thing is almost as old as I am! John, I have to make a trip to one of our Junkhouses in Post Falls. I wish you were not so far away, or I would come down there just to say hello.
Posted by Colin Wiseley (Member # 247) on 02-13-2001, 08:40 AM:
John: Simplex XL #4761?------------------
Colin Wiseley
Lyric Theatre
Blacksburg, VA
www.thelyric.com
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-13-2001, 08:56 AM:
Does anyone have a listing for Century projectors and soundheads?
John -- any chance you could send the liststhat you have to Brad?
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-13-2001, 03:03 PM:
Colin, the XL you have is the 962nd one made in the year 1953.------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-13-2001, 03:07 PM:
Scott, Unfortunately, Century never established ANY kind of numbering system, I have seen early C projectors with a cast shutter housing have lower serials than C heads with a stamped metal shutter housing (Which was the earliest models) that had higher serial numbers! I have yet to figure out any sort of code or dating of these! Dick Prather (Another well known old equipment expert) Has come to the same conclusion that I have about Century. Sorry! I will try and scan the National Theatre Supply Serial list I have and forward it to Brad. Take care!
------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-13-2001, 04:46 PM:
John,
Contact Corky in Tulsa. He has the Century serial number list as I recall.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Colin Wiseley (Member # 247) on 02-13-2001, 06:46 PM:
Colin, the XL you have is the 962nd one made in the year 1953.Thanks a lot John! That cool to know. For some reason I thought it was older than that. Our theater's been around since 1930, now it makes me wonder what they were using before 1953. Possibly a Super-Simplex since that's the type of base it's on. I wonder...
------------------
Colin Wiseley
Lyric Theatre
Blacksburg, VA
www.thelyric.com
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 02-13-2001, 10:25 PM:
OK John, Work your magic with my numbers.
Here goes.... (Brenkert BX-60) S/N 8176
(Brenkert BX-60) S/N 3180
(Brenkert BX-60) S/N 5104
(Brenkert BX-60) S/N 5099
Simplex XL (PR-1014) S/N 11318
Simplex Soundhead Model SH1012, S/N 1245
------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-13-2001, 11:42 PM:
Colin, The XL was introduced in 1950 after prototype tests in 1949 at approx. 6 theatres across the country. Up til then, Simplex was still making E-7s, and Supers. The Standard Simplex was made from 1911-1937. The 'Super Simplex' base (Model LL-1) Was made starting in 1929 so it is possible that you had either Standards or Supers originally.
Barry, Unfortunately, my serial list ends at 1954 with model #PR-1006 (The first XLs were PR-1001 (1949) Under serial #500 then PR-1002
through PR-1004. PR-1006 was for military only with a 'navajo white' interior paint for the RCA-9030 soundhead to match up. The PR-1014 was introduced about 1955 and has been the model type of the XL through many changes of ownership of Simplex, ie: General Precision Labs, (Singer) and NTS right up to
the Ballantyne / Strong purchase of Simplex. Thus, serials are not necessarily in order, but I would guess that your machine is about
1957 vintage as well as the soundhead.
MARK: Do you have an email for Corky? I can't even find his fone number! If I remember right, both Bob McRae and Dick Prather have gone to lengths to figure out the Century serials! I don't recall Corky having anything fresh on it though....Thanks!
------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Roger Frazee (Member # 640) on 02-14-2001, 03:18 PM:
John:I am really enjoying this thread and the chance to learn a little cinema history.
What would the vintage be of my Super, #40908?
Also, do you have a way to tell the age of Powers projectors?
Roger
Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 02-14-2001, 06:24 PM:
John,Your resource is great, but you've created a monster!
How 'bout...
-> Super Simplex, s/n 64694, and
-> E-7, s/n E390, E531, E3134, and E3297?
While you're on the subject of the heavy Simplex pedestal, when did they change the designation from "Super Simplex" to "Simplex Heavy Duty?" The facility I worked for some seven years ago had E-7s on Super pedestals; my home setup is on the same style pedestal, but with the Heavy Duty legend on the door.
Also, do you have any production-date information on RCA 1040 soundheads? I've got s/n 1221.
Thanks!--Jon
Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 02-14-2001, 07:31 PM:
John I have two western electric bases for the vitaphone, but the turn tables are gone.Do you have any info on them? maybe Bill at CE could have Don make up some sync automation for them.
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-14-2001, 11:15 PM:
OK.....
Roger...Your Super was made in 1933
(5th year of production, number 180 that year)Jon Miller... Super is 1947 #1864 that year
E-7s:E390 1938 (1st year,Starting serial is 100, it should be nice GLOSS black paint)
E531 1938 also should be gloss black
E-3134 1942 wrinkle black paint
E-3297 1942 wrinkle black paint
A note that ALL Supers had EVEN serial numbers! (First Super is #38207 in 1929)
As of 1929, all Standards had ODD serials!
(First of all ODD numbers is 32201 in 1929)
Daryl, What kind of info do you need for the ERPI stuff? I have lots of parts etc. for the U Base and the 206, 208, 211 soundheads.....
Email me!
------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-14-2001, 11:19 PM:
Roger, I forgot the Powers...I have somewhere a partial listing of the model 5 & 6,6A,6B
serials, but I have found no real correlation to year! Also many times you will find several numbers on the powers! I think these were issued as they were rebuilt or upgraded...serial is stamped on the casting that the film trap is attached to.------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 02-16-2001, 06:45 PM:
John,Thanks for the information! Yep, the low-serial E-7s are gloss black (with a black, text-only instruction plate inside the door); the later ones are indeed wrinkle-black.
Getting back to Motiographs, I have an AAA head whose serial number (A55241010) doesn't completely follow the pattern you outlined earlier in this thread. Did they change the scheme at some point? Also, do you have production information on Motiograph soundheads?
TIA--Jon
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-16-2001, 09:10 PM:
Hi Jon, Motio did vary slightly on the numbering, in your case the AA was 1955,
made in the 10th month (at end) and serial is four digit in middle. The soundheads are coded the same way.------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 02-17-2001, 11:32 PM:
Dose anyone still run a motiograph daily?
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-18-2001, 01:37 AM:
Well...let'see, I know that the theatre in Vale Oregon does,(I just sold them a NEW intermittent movement)and Burns Oregon does. (also with carbon arc) And the Century 5 in Burley Idaho has five AA heads with SH-7500s,
The Star in Weiser Idaho is still equipped with Motio, but I think they have shut down..
That's about all I can think of in my service area.------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 02-18-2001, 02:50 PM:
John why did the Star shut down?
Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 02-18-2001, 03:59 PM:
Why did the Star theatre close?
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-18-2001, 08:24 PM:
Thought I could hold off, but my curiosity got me too John, if it's no trouble:XL's Model PR-1003 #'s XL2568, XL2574
SH-1020 #'s 358, 385
Thank you.
------------------
Dave Bird
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-18-2001, 09:48 PM:
Darryl....As far as I know the Star (was the 4-Star)closed due to lack of money / business, it appears that they have had a stage show or two in there though, as far as I know, the Motio AAs, western electric 206s and the Magnasynch Magneteic sytem as well as the Strong Moguls are still in there! I had installed a Kelmar AS-7200 system in there about 6 years ago...
------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-18-2001, 09:50 PM:
Dave, the XLs are both 1951 (starting serial that year was 2168) The soundheads are the same year! (Starting # 226 that year!) ------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-21-2001, 11:45 PM:
Hey, John!Just got back from Fortuna: Here goes!
Simplex XL's #9208, 9083, 6914
Simplex E-7's #E5114, E5161
SH-1000 #7289
SH-1007's #154, 561
Simplex Mag Penthouses #1488, 1491
RCA MI-1049 Soundheads #1018, 1043
-Aaron
PS- When can you get a chance to head this way? You should have the numbers to call us.
-AS
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-22-2001, 06:38 AM:
John,
Why not send the Simplex S/N list into Brad to post under manuals. Also write up a short paragraph on how to decode the Motiograph Ser. numbers. That stuff should really be posted here.
Ya forgot the Motiograph at the Burley Theater downtown. That adds another to the list.
Mark @ GTS