Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Optical Mono Sound Lives!!!!!???

This is topic Optical Mono Sound Lives!!!!!??? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-12-2001, 09:31 AM:

I'm to the point now where I'd like to hook up my sound mechanisms. So here we go. I've got the exciters lit up no problem. From there, I believe we go to the "General Sound Volume" Boxes which have a 7-pole horizontal wire coupler just under the transistor board:

DCred - DCblk - Grd/Com - Line - Com - Line -DCgrd

Not sure which Com-Line set is "IN" & "OUT", I believe the right side was in, as one box has two sets (changeover setup). Assuming DC power comes into these from the "telephone wire" from the sound rack.

Next we go to the sound rack, where there are two 8-pole vertical wire stations, one for sound, other for power.

(SOUND)
"FILM IN" Line - Com - Grd,
"Dummy" (me!)
"NON-SYNC" Com - Line
"MIC" Line - Com

(POWER)
"FIELD LINE" Line - Com - Dummy
"MONITOR" ?? - ?? - Dummy
"22v DC" Neg - Pos

I believe I have most of it hooked up the way it was, but I need to find out how to hook up a monitor speaker (is seperate amp required?) so I can hear, and I'm curious what the power for "field line" is for, I'm thinking that this once fed the field speaker amp and was snipped when the AM transmitter was installed. It also appears that both exciter lamps were wired to be on at the same time. How was this dealt with so as not to interfere with the show, was one volume control turned down while the other was playing? This is a "General Sound"
rack, the "Non-Sync Panel" has simply a music-mic volume and a mic-film-music selector. Any help GREATLY appreciated! Thank you...

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-12-2001, 12:54 PM:

Hi Dave, "general Sound', who was the maker of this? Is it Canadien? If you can come up with some kind of model ID or number I may have some info...I am not familiar with the name though....Can you email me pictures of the equipment??? Thanks! John

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-12-2001, 08:12 PM:

Suppose it is Canadian. I believe General Theatre was (is?) a big supply house here.
Take me a day or so, but I'll try to photograph it and give you a look. Thanks!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-13-2001, 05:32 PM:

The General Sound system was a copy of the twin mono Altec system in your case the amps were replaced with a transmiter
I have the drawings for it at the show and I will try to get them copied before vegas
gord

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-13-2001, 07:48 PM:

Wow, that'd be great Gordon! Thanks. Stupid of me not to label all that stuff the day it came out

!
I did take some photos though, and what better to take pix of obsolete equipment than an obsolete camera??? That's right, polaroid! Found it today at work, didn't know we still had one!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-13-2001, 08:15 PM:

Polaroid Camera?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-13-2001, 08:39 PM:

Got it years ago from a supplier. We were doing a program to fingerprint and photograph children in case they got lost. The idea was great, and was supposed to be an annual thing, we had cases of film! But the pictures are pretty fuzzy.

As for me John, and this is no b.s., in my own 35mm, I use only Kodak film! Maybe it's cuz American television for us comes from our buddies in Ro-cha-cha and there's some kind of loyalty there?! Many of us grew up with fantasies of a visit to the "Great-Great-House Of Guitars", shopping for pig's feet at "J&E Grocery, One Twenny Niiiiine Reynolds Street", "Ya Pick Up Da-Phone an ya
call - Gabriele Ford", and some day, oh glorious day, "Bowling For Dollars" at either the Gates-Chi-li OR Henrietta Bowl"!

Wayyyyy of topic, my apologies!

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-13-2001, 11:59 PM:

Dave the pictures you sent me are a National
Theatre Supply set up..I recognize the pre-amp, Anyway it was coupled to the AM system. (Normally was hooked to a pair of Altec mono amps- one normal, one backup)
I know I have data on all of it if Gordon can't find it. Take care!

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-14-2001, 06:53 AM:

Dave - those television signals go over the border in both directions. Growing up in the Buffalo area, I watched so much Canadian television out of Hamilton and Toronto that sometimes I feel like I'm part Canadian -- Eh?

Not so lucky in Rochester, as the Toronto signals are very snowy where I live, and the only Canadian station on cable is the "International" one from Toronto that carries the Italian and Oriental programs. (BTW, the wife of the owner of Gabriele Ford worked as an administrative assistant in our group at Kodak, and the House of Guitars is

As you know, Kodak has a film manufacturing plant in Toronto, and I have often visited to help lab customers in Toronto and Montreal, and IMAX in Mississauga, Ontario. And I first presented the Laboratory Aim Density (LAD) system (which just was awarded the Academy Technical Achievement Award) at the SMPTE Technical Conference in Toronto on November 11, 1974. So Canada has lots of happy memories for me.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-15-2001, 05:02 PM:

Just had a thought. Is (was) a twin-mono Altec anything special to a drive-in? Or would I find it in the "Manuals". I'm just not sure what model number it is, maybe that was inscribed on the part replaced by AM X-mitters???????

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-15-2001, 05:34 PM:

The twin altec was a built up system.
General Sound was the national theatre supply agents in canada and the developed the the soundsystem in cojuntion with national. THe PCB design for the preamp was canadian and in the back was a eq module that was never follwoed through with by national.
For driveins the amps were removed and the transmitters replaced them
David email me your address and I will get the book out to you

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-15-2001, 11:47 PM:

Gordon, looking at the picture that dave sent me, the small pre-amp card looks exactly like the one designed by Altec that was first used as the optical pre-amp in the Simplex 6-4-1
transistorized sound system, then it was later used in the NTE 100 & 200 systems. When I worked for Altec Service, I remember having
Altec Data sheets for this pre amp. I believe it was designed in Anaheim California at altec and was OEM to Simplex as part of their systems, I serviced many of these systems right up into the 1980s. In fact, DAVE, if you need a spare card or two, I am sure I have them around here somewhere! They would either be rack mounted like yours, or in the de-luxe system, each soundhead had one in it (Late XL soundheads, & most early 5-Star soundheads) Usually these drove Altec 351A or B amps then later they used the 1593 & 1594
(50 & 75 watt) Solid stae amps. (Early versions used the Altec 1566 pre-amp.

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-15-2001, 11:53 PM:

I just found the data sheet on the pre-amp of Dave's, it's a NTS AM-6505 it has 3 2N3638 transistors on it...my schematic is date 1969.

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-16-2001, 07:26 AM:

I'm really quite lost on these. I'm assuming that the "pre-amps" are the two little "volume boxes" I showed you. I actually have 2 or 3 extra cards for them. Gordon has kindly offered to send me the specs on the rack, but thanks so much, every bit of help counts! I don't know how long I'll use this setup, but then again, I don't even know what I'm going to do with them anyway, so I want to get them working.

The XL's? I now run them two to three times a week, quiet as a whisper!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-16-2001, 06:53 PM:

2 points one was that general sound developed it for canadian use and sold board to National. THe pinouts on the cards are different and the input transformers used were hamond not peerless.
It aslso had 1 ocatave eq in the rack that was not incorporated in the national and a ttl compatable control for automation to be directly compatable to the showman2 automation they also developed that is still copied in many redstone theatres much later

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 02-16-2001, 09:08 PM:

Thanks Gordon! That explains the simularity in physical appearance! If possible, would you mail me the data too! I'll add it to my archives! Thanks!! John

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-17-2001, 02:05 PM:

>>"Polaroid Camera? "<<

What is wrong John? Still fumming over that whole Polaroid/Kodak instant print lawsuit? ;-)

I still have a Kodak EK-6 instant print camera, complete with case and ITT Flash!!!

I actually liked the look of the Kodak pictures better than Polaroid. I never liked Polaroid's color pictures, their old B/W with the fancy edges were pretty good though.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-17-2001, 04:33 PM:

I don't care WHAT people say. Polaroid film has always looked a bit "greenish" to me.

Remember when they tried to take a stab at "instant 35mm"? I don't think that lasted very long. Did it?

All I can say is... Momma don't take my Kodachrome away!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-17-2001, 04:36 PM:

Even worse was there instant 8mm format