This is topic Changing The Oil - Simplex XL in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Don Anderson (Member # 397) on 03-06-2001, 10:15 PM:
 
Any tips?? I can change the damn oil on my car, so what about the projectors? How much oil is needed? Where's the "drain plug"? Same questions for the intermittent (sp) oil change ,if needed. How often should this task be performed? Thanks...
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-07-2001, 12:24 AM:
 
Don:

1. There is a drain plug underneath the sight glass in the front of the machine, unless you have the Millenium.

2. How much oil depends on how large the elevation or depression angle the machine is set to. Just add oil until it starts running out the main drive shaft. Put a cookie tin or something under the machine to keep it from spilling all over the floor. Let it settle over night, and the next day make sure the vacuum lock on the sight glass is released. When the oil settles in the sight glass, move the ring just a little below the oil level (about to 1/8 inch or so...) It should be just about the right. When the machine is run and comes up to operating temperature, some oil may leak out the main drive after the machine is shut down for a few minutes because of oil expansion.

That's why I mentioned to move the ring slightly below the level. By the end of the day, it should be apparent how much oil the machine wants to stay happy. A slight drop in the oil level in the sight glass can be expected, but will then level very close to the ring position.

3. For all practical purposes, draining the intermittent cannot be done without removing the unit from the machine. The screws holding the star wheel and shaft casting to the main body do not go all the way through into the intermittent oil reservoir.

About the only way I know how to drain the oil in the movement is to remove it from the machine and dump it upside down. Unless the oil is extremely grungy, it might not be necessary to do that. If the oil is extremely grungy, the movement should be dismantled and cleaned by someone who is completely familiar with intermittent movements. Otherwise, leave it alone.

If the oil is drained from the movement, I would recommend that oil be added by squirting it into the holes in the movement casting. Their location is at the very top of the little "compartment" underneath the main casting lip where the driving gear is located. The holes might be hard to see. There are two holes about 1/8 inch diameter. If the movement is orentiated so the driving gear is at right angles with the deck, the serial number of the movement can be easily read. The holes are slightly to the right, and down about a 1/2 inch or so from the last digit of the serial number. I am basing this information on a movement I have setting along side my keyboard. The actual placement may vary from movement to movement, with respect to the last digit of the serial number.

I would also recommend removal of the sump screen to make sure it is clean. It is necessary to remove the oil pump to do this. After it is determined that the screen is clean, as well as the projector bildge, then re-install the screen and oil pump assy.

BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN RE-INSTALLING THE OIL PUMP! The oil tube nut can be very easily cross-threaded when it is re-connected. If it is accidently cross-threaded, the pump casting will be ruined, and small metal particles will start circulating in the oil bath, which could ruin other things, including the intermittent movement.

A good rule of thumb is this: If it can't be threaded on with light finger pressure, it is in danger of being cross-threaded.

4. How often to give the Simplex XL an oil change depends on the enviroment the machine is running under, and what kind of shape the machine is in. Some people change it every 6 months. Some never change it until it is too late. Some people go by the number of hours of operation. I changed mine about once a year. I honestly forgot what the manual recommends. Maybe some of the other guys can provide a little better figure on that. Just remember oil is cheap as compared to the damage done by not changing it.



 


Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-07-2001, 07:51 AM:
 
My gut feeling is not to rely too heavily on what manuals say about change intervals. The manual for my car says that the oil should only be changed every 20,000 miles, but I'm sure that's to make it attractive to fleet managers who want to cut maintenance costs. I do it every 5,000.

I am not fully familiar with the manual for our projectors (Cinemeccanica Vic 5s) because the only copy I have is in Italian, which I can't read. After having shown it to someone who can, I am told that they recommend a six-month interval for oil and annually for belts. We do both every three months and I can sure you can see the benefit in improved picture stability (obviously this is less of an issue with projectors that are not 'rubber band machines', i.e. belt-driven).
 


Posted by Jon Bartow (Member # 241) on 03-07-2001, 08:50 PM:
 
Assuming that your XL leaks a lot (esp. from the main drive shaft) Do yourself a favor and start replacing seals. Any that leak. Be very careful to remove all of the cork bits if you replace any of the cork gaskets. Also make sure that the metal parts are clean and dry before putting the new gaskets in. There is a Main Drive shaft gasket upgrade kit that will stop the leaking around the main drive shaft (I can't remmeber the part number off of the top of my head, sorry). It is very possible to stop a XL from leaking (at least for a year or two).
When the projector is running it should be squirting a steady stream of oil at the top. I usually tell my theaters to make sure that there is enough oil in the Simplexes so that (when running) the splattered oil will drip down and cover the entire door glass.
A good idea for draining the oil: remove the plug and let it drain overnight, a lot less messy for working on it in the morning
 
Posted by Don Anderson (Member # 397) on 03-07-2001, 10:36 PM:
 
Any idea as to how much oil I should have on hand? Right now, we only have 2 quarts in stock. I'll need to order from our supplier soon, so I would order oil too.

Jon- Our projectors really don't leak too much oil. I can place a soda cup underneath them and maybe catch a half cup in a month.Thanks for everybodies advice on this subject matter. My Simplex manual doesn't mention oil changes.
 


Posted by Russ Kress (Member # 461) on 03-08-2001, 12:32 AM:
 
LEO!!

My car's owners manual specifies every THREE THOUSAND miles! You get (factory spec) twenty thousand!!!?

Oh well, we run Pro 35s so we have to drain the oil every time we do anything to them!

At least it changes the oil! Besides, as Greg Pauley said earlier, once you get the hang of them, their pretty reliable.

If memory serves, you should add oil to the XL until you can see a steady stream pouring into the intermittent. Personal experience tells me that you WILL need a paint tray under the projector.

I'll admit that I am young, but I've never met a Simplex that didn't leak "somewheres".

Russ
 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-08-2001, 01:19 AM:
 
Don, you can get oil locally from your Texaco dealer. Capella WF32.

The XL does not take much oil. 2 quarts should last you a long time.


 


Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 03-08-2001, 01:24 AM:
 
Our old simplexes leak oil all over the place so it's usually not a matter of changing the oil, but adding it every week. I recommend that when changing the oil you take the screen out from the bottom of the gear box and clean it. Also check for blockage on the intermittent drip spout. Other then that just drain it and fill it to the top of the round window.
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-08-2001, 01:59 AM:
 
Most of the XL oil leaks were around that damn gasket on the gearcase cover. It gives the impression it is leaking out of the main drive, but it isn't. If the gasket on the gearcase cover is oily when you put the cover on, it'll definately leak. That is cited in the manual. Of course, if the tangs are bent on the gearcase cover, forget it. The gasket will not seat. The other XL leakage was out of that sight glass O rings. The O rings collapse, and lose the ability to keep the oil in. Just a little turn on the compression nut might cure that. If not, replace the O rings, and make sure they are free of oil as well as the mating surfaces.


 


Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 03-09-2001, 03:37 AM:
 
Well, that is definately really good news to hear. We had one of those gaskets replaced once (fairly simple job). Im not surprised that the sight glass leaks - hence the nice little pool under the intermittent. I really wish i could tear each one of these apart and rebuild them. There is just so much wear on all the parts and all but the two new intermittents have alot of play. Oh well... not fun being an usher boy again when i see so much that i could be doing.
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-09-2001, 01:32 PM:
 
In one of the older simplex manuals
it refferred to in a new machine
after the 1st 50 hours
then the next 200 hours
and then every year
I make it a point when you change the lamp change the oil and belts
 
Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 03-09-2001, 02:17 PM:
 
Another good tip about changing oil is to drain the machine then clean the percision parts in the gearbox with WD40. Most guys already do this, but if you don't I recommend it. I change my oil once-a-year usually in October.
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-09-2001, 09:09 PM:
 
I disagree Oils and WD40 don't mix
If you wish to clean parts use kerosene or Dunk (gunk) and then flush with fresh oil before refilling
WD40 contains silcones that will break down most oils
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-09-2001, 09:21 PM:
 
Aaron, Ieee,Yiii,Yiii! You have to be kidding me! I Recommend following Gordon's suggestion above!


 


Posted by Don Anderson (Member # 397) on 03-09-2001, 09:25 PM:
 
Thanks guys! Don't worry, I wouldn't use WD40 for anything other than loosening bolts!

Paul, I don't believe we have any Texaco dealers in our area (WI) anymore. But, I will check. Is this the same stuff that one would get if buying Simplex oil? It certainly would be cheaper to pick it up in Milwaukee than have it shipped from a supplier. Thanks again for taking the time to fill me in on this task. Why, its like having a Tech Rep at my side!
 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-09-2001, 10:50 PM:
 
Don, maybe Mark, Gordon, or John might be able to help you find the right oil if you don't have any Texaco jobbers in the Milwaukee area. If there are none, make sure you get some from Strong International. I have experienced some contaminated oil from generic 1 gallon jugs coming from suppliers. (such as cigarette ashes, etc.) As a rule, I never accept any oil in an unsealed generic container. Sometimes what is said to be in that jug is not necessarly what actually is in that jug!


 


Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 03-10-2001, 09:14 AM:
 
Gordon & Paul:
I know a number of operators and service techs who use WD40 for this application. I've never had any problems thus far. HOWEVER, I never thought of using kerosene. Yes, that would be better in the long run by far. Thank you for your correction.
Aaron
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-10-2001, 12:05 PM:
 
Leo,
I thought you drove one of those electric three wheeled cars like Mr Bean has. Oil changes?
Mark @ GTS
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-11-2001, 04:19 PM:
 
Paul: I agree about not using oil from suspect containers. I know someone who once hastily transferred the contents of a leaking, rusty 5-litre can into a used Coke bottle. A few days later he had a seized intermittent resulting from (according to the engineer who had to fix it) caramalised coke deposits inside the unit!

Mark: No, my car's more like the one John Cleese assaults with a tree-trunk in 'Fawlty Towers'...
 


Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-11-2001, 07:26 PM:
 
I always check what's in the can before I use it. It's a habit I developed from way back when I was a kid. My Dad and I were fishing out in the middle of Lake Erie when we ran out of gas. Dad said, "Hook up the spare tank, son." I looked down in the back of the boat and saw TWO spare tanks. I just hooked up the one that was "closer" and didn't think anything about it. About a 1/2 hour later, Dad asks me, "Which tank back there did you hook up?..." It seems that the one of those tanks was filled with 2-Cycle gas! I just lucked out on this one because I DID hook up the right tank. Of course I got the "Always check lecture".
(Y'Know, to this day I'm still wondering what the heck Dad was doing with 2-Cycle gas in the back of the boat that had a 4-Cycle engine! )

WD-40 is something I wouldn't use inside a projector. Used prudently on certain non-critical, external parts it's OK but if it's overused it can gunk up on you. Honestly, I wouldn't use anything inside a projector other than the "original" oil specified by the mfg. (or a substitute specified by the mfg.) I even had reservations when I read those posts about using Marvel Mystery Oil. I'd have to see it in action myself before I made up my mind. I know some of you guys swear by it but I rather not end up swearing AT it.
I saw the list prices for new projection equipment when I started this job and I was shocked when I saw some of them... $15,000 for a brand new Simplex Millennium! NO WAY am I going to F*** around with THAT kind of scratch!


 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-11-2001, 07:31 PM:
 
WD40 is also about the fastest way to remove the sealed lube from a sealed ballbearing as well
WD40 stands for Water Deplacement #40 no a lubricant
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-11-2001, 07:44 PM:
 
I still think the best solution to the WD-40 problem is to simply keep it out of your booth.

That stuff was made for specific purposes, and projection equipment was not one of them.


 


Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-20-2001, 06:22 PM:
 
So can someone please tell me what WD40 IS for? I have heard several people say that it is not a lubricant, and before I became a projectionist I always thought that was its main purpose.

The only thing on the inside of the projector that I use it for is cleaning out the screen (Simplex Millenium, 1060, etc....).

I know the Simplex manual says not to use substitues, but I'm sure they charge an arm and a leg for their oil. We currently use generic oil of the same weight. What do you guys think about that?


 


Posted by Freddie Dobbs (Member # 915) on 09-20-2001, 10:56 PM:
 
Don,

The cost effective way to change the oil is to keep tabs on it, when it starts to turn dark or milky it's time to change it, on new machines it will become dark pretty quick from the black of the internal parts, on older machines it turns "non clear" or milky. It's also a good idea to clean the mesh on the pickup tube, it will clog up from time to time.
 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-20-2001, 11:14 PM:
 
Ken, Simplex oil is not that expensive. Texaco WF 22 Capella is OK to use. It only costs about 11 bucks a gallon at your Texaco Jobber.


 


Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-13-2009, 12:02 PM:
 

It has been 2883 days since the last post.


 




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