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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-07-2001, 04:35 PM:
I was surprised to notice that Sony Digital, Celestial Lighting, Hagen Daz, and several others were missing at this years show. Has SDDS gone the Betamax route, or will there be a Super SDDS before that happens? This is the first time I can remember that Celestial has not been at Showest since I started attendng 18 years ago. I wonder if Balleys is just getting too expensive. It also seems like all the booths are quite a bit smaller than they were a year or so ago.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 03-07-2001, 04:38 PM:
Wasn't Celestial Lighting part of Cinema Film Systems?Did John Allen have a booth?
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 03-08-2001, 01:18 AM:
Sony has a huge pavillion at the oposite side of Bally's from the trade show. It is by the big kitchen.They are using the same D-ILA's that JVC is using in their digital projection.
And yes, John Allen was there. He looked very lonely in his small little booth. 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-08-2001, 02:14 AM:
John Allen has a great sound system. We had two HPS-4000 systems in a 10-plex I ran as a projectionist. It was the greatest, smoothest sound system I ever heard. I don't know why his system never became that popular. I compared it with what I heard in Dolby's THX Screening room, and in my opinion, the HPS- 4000 beat it hands down. The THX just sounded too harsh.
We ran Apollo 13 with a HPS-4000 system, and that place just rumbled. Just like you were actually there. The system was so perfectly balanced, the dialog was clear and distinct.
I was so proud of those HPS-4000 systems, that everytime Blasting Off sequence came up, I made my auditorium check. The people just sat there in Awe, as I stood there in Awe also. We must have hundreds of excellent comments on those HPS-4000 critters...
It was the talk of the town.
There is only one word I can use to sum it up for sound quality. SUPERB!
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-08-2001, 01:04 PM:
I partly agree with you Paul. The HPS can be an inpressive system, and I have installed many of them and have known John for many years and respect him.
My biggest disagreement however is on the HF response. IMHO the high end was not nearly as good as the THX system I once heard at the Chineese #2 in Hollywood. This may be partly due to the fact that John does not usually do much acoustical treatment and some of the HF may simply get lost in reflections in a given room. The nuiances in the sound simply get lost in his system, plus it is way to boomy. People are however fooled and impressed by the boominess, some, mainly older people do complain about it. The LF horns are physically not large enough to go down to 25 hz as a good direct radiator sub system can, although the direct radiator WILL have higher distortion.
I stuck with THX and JBL after that experience and I doubt you could pry me away from the philosophys that are the basis of these designs.(sorry John!)
I have also aligned several HPS systems with my R-2 and there was a marked improvement in the sound noticed by all that heard the before and after. However it was still not the equivelent of having a properly designed system mounted in a full baffle wall as I did at Elgin Fox(Now Marcus), and Reel Theatres Ontario, Oregon. Those systems were done without any price cap on the budget and they were simply knockouts as far as sound goes. The Ontario Reel uses the 5672 three way systems, and I do agree with John 100% that 3 way is the right way.
P.S. I know John will be here sooner or later to argue my points!
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-08-2001, 01:38 PM:
Hi, Mark.
I guess it is up for grabs. That HF edge you speak of that might be lacking in the HPS-4000 system is why I like it. It doesn't shatter the ears. THX would sound great if they would just roll that edge off theirs. I think it would then sound more natural rather than a 10 month old baby screaming in right directly into your ears at ZERO range.My ears are very sensitive. For my age, my hearing is much better than today's average teen-ager.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-08-2001, 04:26 PM:
Paul,
I have never heard the edge you talk about. The older JBL drivers were known for the titanium crash effect and they were brittle sounding. That however was quite a few generations of drivers ago. The present drivers are quite sweet sounding. I don't know your exact circumstances and what film you were listening to...it could have been the track as well that caused it. With either a CP-65, or a Panastereo processor and if things are installed and tweeked correctly you'll never have that hard edge unless it is comming through form the film itself. Of course it is possible for this to happen in an HPS system as well. If someone gets ahold of the cat 64's and diddles with them.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-08-2001, 07:02 PM:
Mark, the Cineplex (a new 14 screen house) up here in Mount Vernon has THX systems in them. I must admit I never listened to them, but most of the complaints I have heard from the movie goers that I know address the high end being so bright, they would rather not go and watch a movie there. But, that Cineplex is the only kid on the block, so they really have no choice. The mid range and low end seem to be ok. The way it is described to me, it sounded like a dead ringer to what I have heard in Dolby Labs Screening room.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-09-2001, 01:37 PM:
Well to points
1 Mr Allens methods do not match the way the dubbing theatres are eq'd where the sound is mixed so what you here is not what the mixer heard
Also the surround arrays may be even but are to high up creating a overhead effect
The rear wall tends also to predominate which is why the claim has been made elsewhere that no ex adapters are needed
THe only shrill sounding speaker that is THX approved I have worked with is the EV
They have a nasty spike at the top end
Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 03-09-2001, 02:56 PM:
I had been to a theatre with a girl friend That lives in port orchard. We would always go to the big multyplex there,but the sound was crappy.Then we went to a new theatre in lakewood and the sound was out of this world!!!!! I wish all theatres had sound like lakewood or the Chehalis theatres.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-09-2001, 09:44 PM:
Gordon, I am not sure what kind of speakers are in there. Bob's boys made that installation, so it could have been just about anything.Daryl, that theater in Port Orchard went completely down the tubes into the sespool since Regal took it over. You are right - the sound systems sound like crap, along with presentation quality. Reports I receive from time to time say people don't even like to go there any more. What a shame.....
Posted by Joshua Lott (Member # 240) on 03-09-2001, 10:11 PM:
I was at the install of the Lakewood (Regal)and was the booth manager for the first few months. It was originally THX certified, and is has electro voice speakers(I love them). These theatres sound great because we have really good techs keeping them up. haven't been down there in awhile though.
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-10-2001, 04:30 AM:
>>Wasn't Celestial Lighting part of Cinema Film Systems?<<Aura Lighting was. Cinema West now owns practically all of the Aura lighting stock, thanks to the CFS liquidation auction.
Aaron
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-10-2001, 04:32 AM:
Or the ICECO booth that in previous years had several complete projection systems running in the huge booth had one little hole against the wall booth this year.-AS
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-10-2001, 10:55 AM:
Anyone also notice that PerkinsElmer (ORC) xenon lamps nolonger have a American flag on the box saying made in the USA
Rumour is they are made in Asia now
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-10-2001, 06:45 PM:
Paul said: quote:
My ears are very sensitive. For my age, my hearing is much better than today's average teen-ager.
Paul, that's because (I'm guessing) you don't drive around all day in your enclosed car with your stereo cranked up to "eleven" playing bass-booming rap!
Posted by Betsie Beadling (Member # 591) on 03-10-2001, 07:55 PM:
Me 
#1 Cause I dont have Enough Money to go to Las Vegas and #2 Its not Held in Washington DC!!! 
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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-10-2001, 09:10 PM:
Mike, you are soooooooooo correct!
Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 03-11-2001, 12:49 PM:
Actually Mike there was a C missing from the Type of Music you had in your post. 
In all Honesty as to the THX vs HPS4000 Sound, I have heard both at the now deceased GCC Meyerland 8 in Houston, The HPS 4000 Autitorium sounded better there for Mr. Hollands Opus.