Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Brad's "Dye Transfer" Review

This is topic Brad's "Dye Transfer" Review in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 03-12-2001, 10:01 AM:

I enjoyed Brad's review of the "new IB", and couldn't agree more. Just a minor point, though, for some of the guys who may not have experienced the original Dye Transfer process, or want to know more about it. The actual camera negatives were/are used to produce a high relief monochrome gelatin postive called a matrix (one for each color-YCM) which was then inked with the dyes more or less like a rubber stamp, and then moved along by a "pin belt" pressing the dye onto blank stock (in full daylight) with the silver soundtrack already in place. Each of the three colors was added sequentially. One of the beauties of the system, apart from the spectacular dense colors, is that the camera negatives are only used to produce one set of matrices which could generate several thousand prints if properly cleaned and reinked. Given todays fine grain duping stocks this is not so much of an issue, but in the old days it was a tremendous advantage as each print was more or less the quality of a contact print off the camera negative. If there are wrinkles in the new system that differ I apologize, but that's how IB was produced.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-12-2001, 10:39 AM:

Marty Hart's website has quite a bit of information on early color processes, including Technicolor:
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/index.htm
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/additive-subtractive.htm
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/oldcolor.htm
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/subtract.htm
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/technicolor1.htm

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 03-12-2001, 10:50 AM:

John: do you or anyone else (Richard Haines?) have any idea of what changes Technicolor may have made in the "new" process? I assume it's mostly in the area of dye formulas, stock, and film transport, but perhaps there are some substantive changes in the process? Obviously they've licked some of the environmental issues, but I'm curious what else may have changed.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-12-2001, 11:15 AM:

The best book on Technicolor and other obscure color processes in an English book titled Colour Cinematography. The section on Technicolor makes comparisons of the British and American Technicolor processes which did differ just slightly. The main difference between them was the use of different dyes. This may be the main reason that British Technicolor looked better than its American counterpart.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-12-2001, 11:18 AM:

Jeff:

Sorry, but you will have to ask Technicolor. Many of the details of the dye-transfer process are considered proprietary.

Here is what their website says:

__________________________________________

Improved Dye Transfer Process -
Offering tremendous benefits to the
film community, this process provides
improvement for:

Release Print Features

Improved and increased color
saturation
Increased sharpness and
reduced granularity
Extended latitude with neutral
tone scale (i.e. blacker blacks
and whiter whites)
Increased dark-keeping stability
in image dyes (no fading)

Process Features

Greater creative control
Increased consistency of
release prints
Compatibility with digital sound
formats
Compatibility with digital picture
files

________________________________________

http://www.technicolor.com/aboutus/index.html

Posted by John Schulien (Member # 215) on 03-12-2001, 12:38 PM:

Some details of Technicolor's new dye transfer process may be proprietary, but they did take out a patent which reveals many of the details of their new printer. Extremely interesting reading.
http://www.delphion.com/details?pn=US06002470__

Follow the link and select "View Images." if you're curious.

In dye matrix printing, a matrix film is soaked in dye, then brought into contact with a receiver film. The film then migrates from the matrix into the receiver.

The problem is that the dye migration process takes a fairly large amount of time -- some 40 seconds, which is a problem if you want to run a cine printer at high speed.

The previous method involved using an extremely long stainless-steel pin-belt, which held the two strips of film in close alignment. The extremely long pin-belt was very difficult and expensive to maintain, and tended to wear out.

The new method takes advantage of the fact that once the matrix film is pressed against the receiver film, the two tend to stick together. The new printer uses a relatively short pin-belt to align and stick the film together. The film is only on the pin-belt for a few seconds. Then, the matrix-receiver film sandwich is peeled off the pin-belt, and run through a series of rollers in a cabinet for the rest of the 40-second or so dye transfer time, and finally the sandwich is peeled apart at the end.

Finally, the completed film is mounted on a broken plastic reel and delivered to the customer. (This detail is not included in the patent.)

Interesting reading.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-12-2001, 01:19 PM:

I haven't seen the book that Mark recommends, but I can put in a good word for "Technicolor Movies" by Richard Haines. There are a couple of errors, but it is otherwise a great reference.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 03-12-2001, 03:55 PM:

Neither the Technicolor homepage or Scott's patent registration are too illuminating, but one thing that did come out was a "new method of controlling the absorption of the dyes into the base stock". I guess that, plus less environmentally hazzardous dyes and washes, must constitute the "new" Technicolor. Too bad they didn't come up with this "breakthrough" in 1974 instead of abandoning the market to color print films! Well, better late than never...let's just hope that there's a future in 35mm film.