Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: AW3 Continuous Loop ??

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Posted by Lee Davies (Member # 536) on 03-12-2001, 12:01 PM:

Hi,

Might be a stupid question, but is it possible to run a continuous loop on a Christie Autowind 3 platter system? I'm asking because we have to show a trailer this Sunday (18th March) afternoon for an hour continously. We will be getting three copies of the trailer which runs for approximately 1min 50secs and the original idea was to splice these together with 30 seconds of black frame spacing between them. But this idea would mean we would have to re-thread the projector every 7-8 minutes or so which with having 11 others to run would be distracting. So my idea was to just separate the head and tail with black spacing again and run it in a loop for the hour. But I have never come across this before, so is it possible?

Thanks for any help,

Lee Davies, Projectionist.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-12-2001, 12:53 PM:

A 1'50" trailer is only 165 feet of film. I suggest that you simply use undercut rollers to loop the film within the projection box. If our Film-Tech experts were able to interlock a single print on 16 screens, it should be a "piece of cake" to loop only 165 feet.

Do use an on-line film cleaner, however.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-12-2001, 01:00 PM:

Yes indeed, this would be quite easy. Just get yourself a junk trailer of the same length (measure it out on a frame counter) and use interlock rollers on the walls or ceiling and on the far end of the loop use a free-standing makeup table. Without seeing your booth setup, I can't offer much detailed explanation, but so long as the film isn't dragging across any rollers or dragging on the floor, you will be fine. Once you have gotten your loop threaded and all set perfectly, cut the junk trailer and splice the real one onto it and then have a helper turn the projector motor on while you let it feed itself into your temporary system. When it reaches the end, have your helper turn the motor off and make the loop splice.

But to answer your original question, no a regular AW3 cannot run a loop. You would have to have an ELF platter for that.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-12-2001, 06:14 PM:

Why do you have to run a trailer for a continues hour. Is this being projected in the lobby or something?

Posted by Lee Davies (Member # 536) on 03-12-2001, 06:37 PM:

No, its showing in one of the auditoriums. The idea is this - UK newspapers advertise cinemas are showing "Harry Potter" trailer for an hour this Sunday between noon and 1pm. Management and others "up above" say we will be sent 3 trailers, and tell us to just splice them together and just show them for the hour continuously. They must think we just press play or something!

Anyway I wanted to know if the looping idea was possible so it didnt detract from other things to be done in the booth.

The reason its on for an hour is that they think the kids are going to go nuts and "just have to see the trailer" or something. I dont ask why, I just nod and agree!

Lee

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-12-2001, 08:46 PM:

Lee: If you take the precautions Brad suggests while loadoing the rollers with the loop, and use an in-line film cleaner, you should have no problem running only one trailer spliced into a loop for many hours. Many theme park attractions run with loops, and they get tens of thousands of runs with Kodak ESTAR base prints

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-12-2001, 09:22 PM:

the big problem here could be getting all the rollers you would need and setting it up in time for the run. THat's a lot of work to acomplish in such a short period of time. Unfortionatly it's the only thing you can do to keep it continuous.

Posted by Danny Hart (Member # 659) on 03-12-2001, 09:47 PM:

Belive it or not, I am in EXACTLY the same position!!! The Harry Potter trailer to be shown this Sunday for an hour.

I presume you’re working for the same company as I am. It would have been nice if the people that have arranged this had checked first if this would be possible, wouldn’t it!!!

Anyway, I should be able to use the Interlock and tension-adding rollers to make this work. If you don’t have these at your disposal, you’re just going to have to run the trailer from the projector and let it gather into a plastic basket (NOT onto the floor!) and loop the start onto the finish, and let the projector do the pulling of the film. If you arrange it strategically enough and, as suggested, USE THE FILM CLEANER!, it will run ok. But warn your Manager that the trailer may suffer severe damage and that there is a possibility of breakage.

This is by no means the kind of treatment I would put a feature through. But, being just a trailer, and the pressure we’re being put under to make this work, it’s all I can think of.

On the same subject, Christie DID have an endless loop version of their AW-3. Is it still on the go? I saw one in action - it arranged the film in a kind of “clover-leaf” pattern on the platter, so that the inside of the roll always amounted to the same as the outside, therefore it didn’t have to change speed - just rearrange the film on the platter.

Posted by Lee Davies (Member # 536) on 03-13-2001, 06:26 AM:

Thanks for the replies so far.

Hmmmm, looks like i'm just going to have to try it and see what happens. I'll give this a try tonight at work when some of the films have finished for the night.

John & Brad: Thanks for the help and dont worry I will use a film cleaner

Darryl: Just how time consuming do you think this is going to be to set up? Hopefully not too long!

Danny: I work for a multiplex chain that uses big eared rabbits with carrots as its "symbol". Can't say the company name as when I have previously I have been sent e-mails saying I shouldn't use the company name to air my personal views!?! From what I can gather most cinemas and multiplex chains are doing this on Sunday so you might work for the same company, but then again you might not.

What to do, eh I'm sure i'll think of something when I give it a go tonight!

Lee

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-13-2001, 10:28 AM:

It could be time cunsuming if you do not have enogh rollers to do the job and trying to obtain these rollers could take some time. If you have enough room in the booth you could be able to loop the film using rollers mounted on the ceiling in a sort of zigzag fasion. Keeping enough tension on the film to keep it from sagging will be the problem. if posable and you have the room I would wall maunt a roller assembly on the wall that would allow the film to be looped across the wall. That way the sag can occure without worrying about binding. If you do any of these suggestions try and take some pictures and send them to Brad. He can post them in the picture wharehouse.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 03-13-2001, 10:41 AM:

Something I've wanted to try for a while-

Ever take apart the ribbon cartridge of a dot matrix printer? The ribbon is all skrunched up inside the cartridge, yet never jams coming out.

Transfer the idea to film. Cardboard box, deep and narrow (one film width). Film is guided into the top, it flip folds back and forth, then comes out a largish hole in the bottom. Should work with minimal abrasion. The only time the film would be pulled against itself is when it exits the box.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-13-2001, 11:29 AM:

>> Christie DID have an endless loop version of their AW-3. Is it still on the go?<<

As Brad mentioned earlier that is the Christie 'ELF' platter. Yes, Christie still makes them.

Aaron

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-13-2001, 11:35 AM:

>>Cardboard box, deep and narrow (one film width). Film is guided into the top, it flip folds back and forth, then comes out a largish hole in the bottom. Should work with minimal abrasion. The only time the film would be pulled against itself is when it exits the box.<<

Then where is the film taken up? A reel? A Platter ring? Assuming the film would have to be reshown several times over, how much trouble would it be to re-box the film without damaging it? Sometghing to ponder.

I have seen audio tape equipment that did something similar except I think it was the opposite: it spooled the tape off a reeel and after going thru the heads it paid out into a one-tape-width 'bin' at the bottom, using gravity to collect the tape in many little convolutions.

Aaron

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 03-13-2001, 11:51 AM:

>>Then where is the film taken up? A reel? A Platter ring? Assuming the film would have to be reshown several times over, how much trouble would it be to re-box the film without damaging it? Something to ponder.<<

The idea works best for short lengths, like trailers. It accumulates in the box. Thread projector, bump to get a little film through the hole at the bottom of the box, run the rest of the film except the tail into the box, splice the two ends together.

I think a lot of us have run trailers out of a box before. Again, I'm always amazed that the film doesn't kink and bind.

Too bad that film will jump in the gate from splices that are loose and "book." Otherwise, film could be fan-folded like the old ticket stocks instead of run from reels. That would make continuous operation easy.