Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Green Bands

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Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 03-22-2001, 03:49 PM:

John P. - Is there any work on standardizing the layout of a trailer?

Most theatres, I think, remove the green band and we have had discussions regarding this.

Why ask this?
1. Because sound sometimes starts in the green band and gets cut off.
2. None or very few black frames between end of green band and start of trailer.
3. None or very few black frames between end of trailer and end of physical medium.
4. Green band fades resulting in possible projection of 1 or 2 frames of green band before trailer.

I personally like to preserve as much black leader as I can between trailer. I think it provides a nice transition. But these items above prevent this from happening.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-22-2001, 04:01 PM:

I did discuss the problem at the Inter-Society Meeting for the Enhancement of Theatrical Presentation held at ShowEast last October. I will follow up, especially with Mark Harrah of Disney, who was instrumental in implementing the Trailer Audio Standard (TASA) to control excessively loud trailer mixes. Mark has contacts in the trailer production community.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-22-2001, 06:13 PM:

I think most people leave the green bands on. I used to cut them off, but discontinued the practice a couple of years ago because of the sound problem Paul mentioned.

I agree that there's often not enough black leader at the beginning or end of trailers, but with so much 'controversial' material making it into trailers these days, it's probably a good idea to leave the green band on, so the disclamer covers your butt when some "concerned parent" complains about trailer material being inappropriate for kids.

Posted by Tod J. Weitzel (Member # 760) on 03-22-2001, 07:45 PM:

Isn't it about time the green band was modified to communicate more information than just "we watched this trailer and it didn't freak US out" on a pleasant green background? With all the toys the film industry has to play with these days, I'm surprised no one has tried to make a slightly less static ratings band - the thing doesn't even fade in like everything other sort of pre-feature clip.

That little box they call a TV rating at least has subcodes warning you what kind of content you might experience than just a recommended age group.

Granted, we should just reform the whole ratings process in general [read: kick the MPAA out and make an organization that ONLY rates movies according to fixed guidelines rather than the subjective garbage we have now], but the green band is about due for a tune-up.

-Tw?

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Resident nerd.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-22-2001, 11:03 PM:

You'll get no objections from me about fixing trailers!

Although I think the info on green (and red) bands could be updated with subcodes as you suggest, I think you'll agree that they must be standardized to be instantly recognizable by the people watching them. If you make changes to drastically then they will become useless.

However, there IS something to be said for doing something with them. With all the furor over movie ratings lately, the movie industry can use them to convey the impression to people that they really DO care about keeping movies "clean". (Or at least letting people know the differences.)

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-22-2001, 11:26 PM:

Personally, I think the studios want the ratings to be as 'bland' as possible. They really want to give out as little info as they can, so the maximum amount of people will not be put off and pay to see the film.

As with any advertising medium, you only have a few moments to "make your statement' I'm guessing this is why, soon as the required 4 seconds of green band passes, the action starts. Which means the sound (start) is going to be in the green band area.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-23-2001, 03:13 AM:

John,

At one point I heard rumor about the MPAA possibly modifying the green colored background to be a textured background to help aid in focusing. Have you by any chance heard of any progress in that direction? I think it would be a fantastic upgrade.

To cast my vote yet again, I want at least 3 feet of PURE black at the head and tail of each trailer...no "tv cue marks" just before the green band starts...all green bands should fade up, but cut to black...and there should be enough black after the green band to permit the complete chopping off of the band as to not affect the analog soundtrack.

Of course, I'd also like to see this nonsense of showing a little clip and then flashing the studio logo put to an end. But what bothers me more is the stupid FLASH of a scene after the trailer is basically over, but before the final credit slate appears. This is the lamest thing I've ever seen and does NOTHING to help make people want to see the trailer. Mummy 2 is a good example of how lame it is...yet I am seeing this on 90% of all trailers nowadays! It's like when Fox did the late studio logo in the Speed trailer and Speed was successful, they started doing it on all of the trailers. Then someone came along with the stinger flash shot (I think it was the Twister teaser that used it first) and ever since it seems that no one can make a trailer without it. (The funny part of it all is that the editor's job is to make their trailer stand out from the rest.) Lame guys, it's just lame. Rant off.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-23-2001, 09:53 AM:

Agreed to everything already said.

Personally, I'd like to see VistaVision-style framing marks (which indicate the top border for 1.66, 1.85, and 2.00:1 formats) on trailer bands, as well.

I also tend to think that there should be a PG rating for trailers. We already have G-rated and R-rated trailers, so I don't really see why the MPAA can't get it through their heads that a lot of people would be offended by some of what currently appears in G-rated trailers and that many theatres or chains refuse to show R-rated trailers for reasons unknown. A PG-rating for trailers (yellow band, perhaps?) would be a good compromise.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-23-2001, 10:03 AM:

One of the reasons that the red band trailers are not shown is do to the fact that some people were putting them on non R-rated films. So by refusing to play them is suppose to stop this.

I do wish that the green bands were not cut off. It is a practice I really do not like doing. However, I have no choice in the matter.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-23-2001, 07:55 PM:

They used to put these things at the end, and it was a variation of the actual rating strip logo.

I liked 'em better that way, although the ones at the beginning do let you save cutting into the soundtrack.

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Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Neil Fish (Member # 698) on 03-23-2001, 08:06 PM:

John P- There is a real concern out there regarding loud trailer mixes. I had a conversation with our Albany, NY theatre manager this week about his concern with LOUD trailers. Short of recalibrating sound systems (won't work in all cases) or automating around them (can be confusing to some projectionists doing makeup), the only solution seems to be diligence on our projectionists' part to solve it.

Incidently- The print of "Enemy" is just fine. After it dried out from a couple passes, the focus was stable.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-23-2001, 08:29 PM:

Neil:

If you encounter excessively loud mixes on trailers, report the details to Lucasfilm THX (Ted Costas is a participant on Film-Tech). THX/TAP is hired by the MPAA to ensure that TASA (Trailer Audio Standards Association) standards for film trailers are upheld. Both trailers and features should have a mix that plays at the same fader setting, (e.g., ideally "7" on a properly aligned Dolby Digital sound system).

Trailers that do not meet the TASA standard can be denied MPAA approval:
http://www.boxoffice.com/issues/feb01/tasa.html
http://www.dolby.com/press/wb.pr.0101.AMPAS.html
http://www.dolby.com/press/meter.html

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-23-2001, 09:01 PM:

I do think that the trailer mixes have improved somewhat recently, although there are still major problems with non-trailer material, such as commercials (ugh!) and the like. I don't know who has the authority to do anything about these (except maybe NCN or Screenvision or other ad companies), but it would be nice if NATO or Film-Tech or some other "organization" could do something about this situation as well.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 03-23-2001, 10:40 PM:

All our trailers are now printed overseas it seems and the censor tags are edited in at the beginning, but not very well...

Common problems are...

- Over exposed tags
- Scope tags on flat trailers
- Flat tags on scope trailers
- Ugly negative splices effecting both picture and sound

But who to complain to? The film companies here don't seem to care so 'snip' off they go.

...but isn't that progress?

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"It's not the years, honey...it's the mileage". Indiana Jones

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-24-2001, 01:51 AM:

I've only noticed a drop of about 1 db in the overall level of trailers. This may be due to careful mixing to make them "sound" louder, without actually registering it on a meter, but does anyone know just how much lower they are "according to the meter" than they were a year ago? As it used to be, I ran trailers about 10db lower than the feature. Now I run them at about 9db lower.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 03-24-2001, 08:45 AM:

What's the history behind trailer content standards? I've seen a few previews from the 70's (like for the original "Shaft") that had some bad language and rather heavy violence that they'd only allow in a red band trailer. What REALLY blew my mind was the trailer for the 1974 'classic' "The Groove Tube", which has nudity but at the end has a blue tag saying "This preview has been approved for general audiences. The film advertised has been rated R."
Also anyone know any history about the self-imposed time limits? I've heard that the limit right now is around 2:30, with each studio getting one exception per year like the +3-minute "Titanic" trailer. I've seen some old previews that were REALLY long; I just watched some previews for 60's 'exploitation' films from a Something Weird Video DVD that ran between 5 and 7 minutes, and the movies they were for were probably pretty short.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-24-2001, 01:27 PM:

There's still a lot of variation in trailer volume. I think Brad's right about the "mix" or else the mixers are just ignoring the limits.

The trailer for Hannibal was quite a bit louder than the norm. We're not showing it anymore and I never got a chance to measure it, but it sure "sounded" louder to me!

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 03-24-2001, 06:16 PM:

The Memento trl (SR only track) is so soft I've had to create a program to accomodate the drastic change in levels in its trailer pack.

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"It's not the years, honey...it's the mileage". Indiana Jones

Posted by Neil Fish (Member # 698) on 03-26-2001, 09:36 PM:

Thanks for the info John. I will see that it gets to the theatre in question, and to our film dept.