Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: What gloves?

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 03-24-2001, 07:57 AM:

Hello everyone!
Since I've started to work as projectionist I've felt the need to wear gloves when buklding and touching films.
However I've tried few types of gloves without results:
1. "Kitchen" gloves: too big, too thick and I cannot "feel" the print. Moreover you get in trouble when splicing.
2. "medical" gloves. Two problems: are too thin and splice tape will attack to gloves. Second: I'm allergic to that type of rubber and my hands will become red...

If anyone use a pair of gloves, what do you use?

Antonio

Posted by Chris Duvall (Member # 787) on 03-24-2001, 08:03 AM:

My boys in the booth use thin cotton gloves as I did years ago when I was projector jockey. Regal orders these for the booth through our light bulb(not Xenon) distributer along with Film-Guard. The company is David Tyson Lighting. When I get a chance, I will get a phone number for you if you want. The gloves are thin enough to to feel the print but kind enough so not to damage it. They are like a very thin t-shirt like material and lint free.

------------------
Chris Duvall
General Manager
Regal Cinemas
Colonnade 14
Las Vegas, Nevada

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 03-24-2001, 08:55 AM:

Thin cotton gloves are commonly recommended. Larger photo shops or photo supply places will have these. That said...

I worked as a pro still photographer, where a fingerprint or speck of dirt meant a ruined print or wasted time spent manually retouching with a single bristle artists brush. Cotton gloves created more of a problem with lint spots as they solved by reducing fingerprints (which any pro will never leave anyway). Additionally, these cotton gloves are ill-fitting unless you have a standard size hand.

Rather than wearing gloves, I found that washing my hands to remove excess oil, and handling the film by the edges or by using a kimwipe would cause far fewer problems. Kimwipes are a sturdy lintless tissue available at photoshops. Too bad there isn't a paper disposable glove that is lintless.

The only time I've seen a practical use for the cotton gloves is when hand editing film, where twenty or more scene clips might be hanging in the bag and there is constant handling of the sequences and splicing. Even then, film is typically hand cleaned three or four passes after the reel is completed. YMMV.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-24-2001, 11:53 AM:

If you have the discipline to handle the film by the edges only, you probably don't need to wear gloves. But do wash and dry your hands so there is no oil or sweat on them.

But if you tend to be "all thumbs" and get fingerprints on the surface of the print, lint-free gloves are a good idea. Test the gloves by putting a piece of sticky clear splicing tape against the fabric --- they should not leave lint on the adhesive surface of the tape.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 03-24-2001, 12:32 PM:

Most film editing equipment suppliers will have gloves. Some are made of nylon which helps with the lint problem. I used to use some that originally had been military dress gloves. I liked them because they were heavier and a tighter weave that didn't drop so much lint. Once in awhile you just washed your hands with the gloves still on and let them dry overnight. The repeated washings also lessened the lint.

In any case, bless you for caring enough to ask about them.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-24-2001, 02:11 PM:

Christy's Editorial in Burbank, CA. sells stuff like this. I really like their customer service and fast shipping, but their prices are kind of high. Still, it's a good place to get certain types of supplies like editing gloves, which shouldn't cost much anyway.

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 03-24-2001, 02:22 PM:

Light Impressions (www.lightimpressionsdirect.com) sells good nylon gloves made by Polygenex. They are listed under the "Film Storage" drop-down menu. They are expensive (unfortunately the price seems to have been bumped up now to $4 a pair from $3) but washable and very lint-free.

Still, handling tape with the gloves takes its toll on the fabric, but not as much as on the cheap "disposable" cotton gloves I've tried.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 03-24-2001, 06:08 PM:

Thanks for all your replies!
John: yes, prints shouldn't be touched.
I always clean my hands with soap twice when building a film but unfortunately my hands are frequently sweaty and sometimes touching film is necessary (when spicing, for example, it is hard to don't touch film for fitting the print in the splicer).
However have a pair of gloves will make things easier and faster for me.

I surely will try all of your suggestions.

Bye
Antonio

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-24-2001, 07:52 PM:

Another idea is to use the latex rubber "finger cots" that are used by people that handle alot of paper, to avoid paper cuts. They look like miniature condoms, so don't leave them around, or people will joke about the size of other parts of the anatomy!

Many pharmacies stock "finger cots" in the first aid (bandages) section.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-24-2001, 07:53 PM:

Oh! Do you mean you're not supposed to wear wool mittens?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-24-2001, 07:59 PM:

Randy:
I once toured the booth of a new multiplex just before it opened. A trainer from the circuit headquarters had been teaching the "newbie" projection crew how to splice and make up film for projection. I actually did see a young trainee using wool mittens, and asked why he was wearing them. He said he was told "to always wear gloves when handling film".

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-24-2001, 08:14 PM:

In a place whose name rhymes with "mates"?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-24-2001, 08:22 PM:

Nope, in Rochester NY, and not a Hoyts.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-25-2001, 08:03 AM:

I don't really like cotton 'editing gloves' because in my experience bits of cotton can settle on the film (quite often helped by traces of adhesive from the joining tape) and cause eventually hairs in the gate.

I then tried the latex gloves which the restaurant downstairs uses for food handling. They get round that problem and also I find it much easier to feel the edge of the film for damage, split perfs &c. as I'm winding it. But they make your hands very sweaty and uncomfortable, and I find that I can't really use them for more than half an hour at a time.

However, the huge drawback with gloves of any description is that you can't remove layers of joining tape that other projectionists haven't bothered to remove by unpicking them with a finger nail.

My film handling practice is to ALWAYS use gloves with new or nearly new prints. Here there is no tape to remove, and the only cutting needed is on the ends of reels if it's going on the platter (that I do with sharp surgical scissors, since I can make a straight cut by eye, I have total control over the amount of overlap and the guillotine cutters on the CIR joiners we have are shite). However, with older and worn prints, I tend not to use them as there's often a lot of tape to unpick and I feel that the odd fingerprint is a price worth paying to be able to identify damage by feel, which I think you can only really do with bare hands.

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 03-25-2001, 09:40 AM:

I use an old glove with a finger tip hole on my splice peeling hand. I use a new glove on my inspection hand.

I also think gloves are useful on older prints as well as new prints. The older prints are dirtier and that dirt transfers to your hands. Plus any edge damage will snag on the glove instead of ripping flesh from your finger and drawing blood.

When making a tape splice, smoothing out the splice is neater and faster with a glove than a bare finger. If you're making lots of tape splices you won't rub your finger raw from the friction.

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 03-25-2001, 02:03 PM:

You can count Aaron Sisemore and myself as two techers who have NO ACCESS to cotton gloves. I think the only time I've ever used a pair was when THX/TAP sent a pair to be good samaritans.

------------------
Scott D. Neff
"Biding My Time"

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-25-2001, 05:50 PM:

Jeffrey - many thanks for the tip on cutting a hole in the end of a glove finger to peel off joining tape - I never thought of that. It might even stop the latex gloves getting so sweaty.

As for finger-ripping, I've only ever once received a cut from an edge examination. That was finding out the hard way (i.e. whilst winding at about 1,000ft per minute) that some moron had joined two sections of film in the middle of a reel by stapling them. The staple parted company with the film and gouged quite an impressive cut in my index finger. Incidentally, if any British reader has recently received a print of 'L'Ennui' and wondered why one of the reels was covered in blood, well, that's why.

But I think you'd have to be clutching the edge of the film a lot harder than is necessary to check for edge and perf damage for, say, a split perforation in brittle acetate stock to actually inflict a cut.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-25-2001, 07:19 PM:

When I'm inspecting film or building up at the bench I usually wear a glove on my left hand only. That's the hand that I pull the film off the reel with. I use my right hand for working the controls and such. The glove on my right hand would only get dirty faster if I did wear one. This way I can still use my fingers to peel tape or cut and splice film, etc but have enough protection that I don't get fingerprints on the film.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-25-2001, 07:49 PM:

I have used the cotton gloves ONCE... all it took was for my hair to begin standing on end and the loud CRACK! of the big painful static electricity spark against the make up table to convince me to leave the gloves for the editors.

I do excercise resonable care handling film anyways, unlike many others in the industry.

Aaron

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-26-2001, 11:51 AM:

Aaron:

Shocks from buildup of static charge should be much less since the introduction of Kodak VISION Print Film, since it has a conductive antistatic layer on the backside to help dissipate the charge. You can easily see the difference by rubbing a piece of older film to generate static --- it will pick up dust and dirt, and stick to the side of a metal cabinet because of the static charge. The new Kodak VISION Print Film will not hold a static charge, so it stays much cleaner and "shock free".

If you handle older prints or prints on other stocks, you might try wearing conductive shoes on a conductive antistatic mat, or use a conductive grounded antistatic wrist band to bleed off any static buildup:
Example of Anti-Static Wrist Strap

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-26-2001, 12:02 PM:

I always keep one leg up against the metal table leg or the control box when I don't want to get shocked.

The new film is much better about static but I still have been shocked, although nowhere nearly as bad.

On time, before the new film came out, I got myself "charged up" really good and then touched the metal end of a xenon lamp. It actually lit up for a split second! It was only a quick "blip" but it was noticible even in room light.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-26-2001, 02:03 PM:

BTW, you should also wear an anti-static wrist strap or take other body-grounding procedures to avoid "zapping" sensitive electronic components when handling circuit boards.

Posted by Robert Golding (Member # 746) on 03-27-2001, 11:03 PM:

You mean I've been doing it wrong for 30 yrs. Personally I've never used gloves and have never damaged a print. You should only handle the film by the edges anyway.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-27-2001, 11:11 PM:

As I said, IF you can handle the print by the edges only, you don't need to wear film handler's gloves. But gloves are a good idea if you tend to get fingerprints on the film. Regardless, please wash and dry your hands to reduce the risk of getting sweat or oil on the print.

It's also very important to keep the film or leader from contacting a dirty surface like the floor or a dirty work surface. Keep your rewind bench or makeup table free of clutter, and damp wipe any dust or debris that may accumulate during the workday.