This is topic "Raiders" at the Uptown in 70MM in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-24-2001, 06:38 PM:
For one week only..._Raiders of the Lost Ark_ will be playing at the Uptown theatre in Washington, DC in 70mm. The engagement starts March 30th 2001.
I have heard two conflicting stories as to the print.
1. It is a new 70mm print but mag striped (I don't believe this one)
2. It is a circa 1981 print and is faded but in otherwise good condition (I believe this one).
Spread the word!
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-24-2001, 07:47 PM:
Might this be the same somewhat faded print that just played in Seattle last month, and was discussed on another thread?------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
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Eastman Kodak Company
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Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 03-24-2001, 09:27 PM:
I think the Uptown still has the Cinerama screen. They played Lawrence of Arabia on that screen. I din't like it because it was too distorted. Larry
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 03-24-2001, 10:17 PM:
...sigh... 
The fact that these screenings are being allowed to continue pretty much sums up Paramount's intention to re-release Raiders...which is that their intention is not to.
...go figure.
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"It's not the years, honey...it's the mileage". Indiana Jones
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-25-2001, 12:15 PM:
Larry,We are all certainly entitled to our opinions on the curved screen issue....but as points of fact...Sir David Lean himself declared it the best he has seen the film (at the Uptown over even the Zigfeld on a flat screen) and second, for 70mm we use curve corrected lenses...shooting a target like 70-PA on the screen shows very minimal distortion (on the order of keystoning in most theatres) on the sides/corners and virtually none on the horizon lines.
So just what distortion are you referring to?
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-25-2001, 12:17 PM:
John,I believe it will be the Seattle print, just how faded was it?
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-25-2001, 03:32 PM:
This is probably the 3rd or 4th time I've seen people wondering if "this print" is the one that so-and-so played last month, etc.Coudn't somebody either keep track of the print numbers or somehow mark the tails of the reels somehow so that people will know? How about just putting a white sticker on it? Those of us Film-Tech people who get the print could just put their initals on it and the date, or something.
Just an idea...
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-25-2001, 05:51 PM:
It should be labeled Print 4?
as it was made from several prints here in toronto in 1996
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-25-2001, 06:06 PM:
So is anyone else from FT going to see this? I intend to be there, although probably not during the weekend...
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-26-2001, 09:43 AM:
Steve, How long is the run?
Mark
Posted by Joe Smith (Member # 190) on 03-26-2001, 12:50 PM:
Scott Norwood asked:
quote:
So is anyone else from FT going to see this? I intend to be there, although probably not during the weekend...
I'm going to try to make it although workload is heavy right now...
Joe
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-26-2001, 07:08 PM:
Gee Mark...did you even read my post? I think the first line was something to the effect of ONE WEEK ONLY! I didn't mean to hide the info! ;-)Steve
Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 03-26-2001, 10:02 PM:
HiI am sure the 70mm projector at the Uptown is free of any distortion. I am not sure the 70MM print of Lawrence of Arabia was corrected in printing to be shown on a deep curved Cinerama screen without distortion.
Are they going to show "Raiders" on the Cinerama screen?
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-26-2001, 10:53 PM:
Larry, I ahve seen films at the Uptown and on other Cinerama screens. If the film is shown with the proper lenses it will ahve little if any dostortion. "Rectified" prints have not been produced for decades and only Ultra Panavision and Some Todd-AO prints were made this way. Mad World comes to mind as I have run a "rectified" print of it at home. I think Oklahoma and possibly 80 Days also had rectified prints made.
Rectification of the image is and as been done through special projection lenses. Both 70mm Cinerama and D-150 used special lenses.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-27-2001, 07:38 AM:
Larry:The print of LOA was not "corrected" for the deep curve screen.
The key is the lenses we use ARE. That is, if you used them on a flat screen, the image would look quite distorted.
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-27-2001, 08:00 AM:
I haven't seen 70mm at the Uptown since Vertigo played there in 1996. At the time, it looked stunning, with perfect focus (edge-center-edge) and no visible distortion.
I agree, though, that some curved-screen setups have major distortion problems--the Cinerama Dome in LA had an absolutely godawful picture for 35mm scope. It was very dim and very distorted. The sound quality there was the best that I've ever heard, though. (Sadly, I've not seen 70mm there.)
What would have been the advantage of making "rectified" prints that could only be shown at one theatre as opposed to making standard prints that could be shown with appropriate lenses at any theatre?
Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 03-27-2001, 08:43 AM:
70mm at the Dome also experienced severe lateral distortion "saucer-bowl" and I dont think Ive ever seen a film perfectly focused from corner to corner. The flat-surfaced screen also causes a washed out look. Still, I like the sound at this theatre and have enjoyed many screenings there.
Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 03-27-2001, 02:09 PM:
SteveTo me Lawrence of Arabia looked distorted on that Cinerama screen but I am sure that's me. So what's the intention at the Uptown with "Raiders". Are they going to use the Cinerama screen or not.
I also understand the screen is rather new being replaced maybe 5 years ago. When I saw "Lawrence", it was on the older screen.
Larry
Posted by Larry Myers (Member # 738) on 03-27-2001, 04:34 PM:
SteveSo is the Uptown going to show Raiders on the Cinerama screen?
Larry
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-27-2001, 04:41 PM:
I'm sorry Larry...I guess I didn't answer your question before...Yes Raiders will be shown on the Cinerama curved screen so any distortion you perceived in LOA will also be there on Raiders (same lenses too).
As to the screen replacement...it went from a "strip" screen to "single piece". This happend for the re-release of VERTIGO. I long for the strip-screen. While the strip screen did have an issue with vertical lines due to the strips, it's contrast was vastly superior to the single sheet we have now (a Technikote XRL) which has killed our contrast. Anything above 12fL tends to start to look washed out.
Sorry I didn't answer this before.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-30-2001, 09:54 PM:
I have recently gotten word that the Uptown's print is in pretty bad shape. It is reported to be VERY red, scratched and averages 10-15 splices per reel.Sorry to break the bad news.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-31-2001, 12:29 AM:
Then that's the print I ran about a year ago (and before anyone cracks a lame joke, no I was NOT the one to cause any of that damage)...except I seem to remember many more splices than you report. Still, that is the ONLY print that Paramount has in 70mm of that title in the United States.Steve, beware of very bad mag tracks on that print. It will require quite a bit of tweeking and I was never satisfied regardless of the amount of tweeking that went into it. You would be better off running one of the recent re-prints of this title in 35mm.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 03-31-2001, 03:05 AM:
I was told the other day that Paramount will be re-releasing Ferris Bueller's Day Off here for some inknown reason like its 15th anniversary or something...Yeah...makes sense... but leave Raiders to turn pink and decay. 
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"It's not the years, honey...it's the mileage". Indiana Jones
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-31-2001, 06:17 AM:
Sorry to hear it...I'll be there on Monday, anyway, though.
With decent 35mm prints of Raiders in circulation and other decent 70mm prints (of other titles) available, why did they have to pick a title to run in 70mm for which only a red and splicy print is available???
BTW, does anyone know what happened to the 70mm print (the Canadian one) which recently played in Seattle? Hopefully it didn't get trashed...
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-31-2001, 04:57 PM:
Well now I have run it....We have print #7001 (which I read as 70mm #1). My favorite description on the label is SR-Digital!!! (Neither of which were invented when this print was struck)
The report of the redness is true but doesn't seem as bad as I was first lead to believe (to those that haven't run red films before, then this seems very red. In the past, running red films was just part of the trade on festivals...Fortunately, there are a lot of desert stuff so the redness isn't as bad as it could be. In the first reel the redness appears rather bad since there is a lot of indoor and shadow stuff.
The scratches are worse than I thought they would be...the bulk are base and there are plenty across the screen...JJs have definately contributed to the scratching as have a host of other problems.
The splices are not as plentiful as I was first led to believe...very little loss of continutity.
The sound? It has held up intact and with many compliments to that from the patrons.
Remember, any film made before 1983 will be at the older recording standard (lower)...if you use test film made after 1983, you will have the Noise Reduction mistracking quite a bit. This will kill the highs off and the lows. I think Gordon has made some recordings of various test films so one can use a modern film to set the older levels (he measured actual test films of the various prints.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-03-2001, 01:20 AM:
I saw this print tonight. The print is obviously beat-up and faded, but it's still pretty watchable. The vintage "Dolby Stereo 70mm 6-track" tag was a nice touch. The sountrack in general was excellent. As always, the presentation at the Uptown was top-notch.
The picture was kind of on the grainy side (probably not much better than 35mm), but the steadiness was far better than with 35mm. Some of the optical work looked pretty cheesy, though, but that's really just an artifact of the time in which the film was made.
Still, it was lots of fun to see this in 70mm, and I really wish that it were possible to see more current titles in this format, even if they are "only" blowups as opposed to true 65mm original photography. It sounds like I'm complaining here, but I'm really just being excessively picky, having had the chance to see a number of truly flawless 70mm prints.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-03-2001, 08:46 PM:
Scott if you want to see grain see a 35mm print blown up to the same size