This is topic Simplex E7 help needed in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002090
Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 03-27-2001, 10:36 PM:
Hi there, Im not on the technical side, so bear with me. The other day my projector just stopped running. Basically, I finished watching a reel, then put another one on, and turned the switch on. I examined everything, the only things that happen are the motor turns, and the lowest sprocket feed roller turns. No gears turn, nothing else. I printed out the manual, but I couldnt really decipher what was wrong. If anyone has had this happen, or has any suggestions how to fix this, either post here, or email me directly, thanks alot!
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-27-2001, 11:48 PM:
If the lowest sprocket on the sound head turns, and the upper sprocket in the sound head does not turn, you probably have a stripped gear in the sound head gear box. Since it is an E-7, you are probably running a SH-1000 or an RCA 1040, 1050, 9030, or a 9050 with it. If you are using two machines, better check the oil level in the other soundhead before you have TWO machines that do the same thing. 
For the rest of you gents that read this: From time to time, check the backlash present in those soundheads. It is easy to do. When you do it, feel for two things:
First, hold the sound head sprocket firmly with your hand. With the other hand, rock the motor back and forth to get a feel how much slop there is. Then do the same with the other sprocket in the soundhead.
If it feels like the upper sprocket slop is greater than the lower sprocket slop, it would be suggested you have a spare bronze gear on hand, because the one in the sound head will probably fail soon. If you have a 9050, remove the lower external gear, and then perform these checks.
Second, as you are rocking the motor back and forth, and it feels like something is climbing while you are holding the sprocket, (like little resistance to a significant resistance to a positive solid engagement), you might as well break out your tools and think about changing a gear as soon as you get out of the "Thinking Room".
(Chances are, that's where you will be headed when you find out your soundhead is almost broken.)
Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 03-28-2001, 07:36 AM:
Hi Paul,I tried your excellent test on both of my SH 1000's. The top sprocket has SLIGHTLY more play than the lower sprocket. But I mean "Slightly". Actually, I don't think I can dectect any play at all in the lower sprocket. Seems like a few thousands of an inch before you can detect motion in the upper sprocket. I'd say I'm in good shape, your thoughts?
best, Jeff
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-28-2001, 03:45 PM:
Jeff, that sounds good. 
Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 03-28-2001, 06:30 PM:
Hi Paul, thanks for the info. I did your test, it appears that the top sprocket in the soundhead wobbles ever so slightly more than the bottom one. Its really tough to tell the difference, but it seemed to my eyes that the top one wobbles slightly while the bottom one kind of wobbles/floats a little. Hard to explain Im sorry. So something is definetly messed up I guess.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-28-2001, 07:47 PM:
Hi Mike. Wen you start the motor, does both sprockets in the sound head turn?
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-28-2001, 07:52 PM:
Hey, guys....when you do this backlash test, I might suggest you make sure the motor coupling is good, also. If the coupling is shot, it will give you some very nasty false backlash information.
Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 03-29-2001, 12:25 PM:
In order to help I must ask a few more questions regarding your problem here.
First of all are you refering to the lower feed sprocket in the soundhead or projector head. If only the soundhead lower sprocket is turning then you have a soundhead gearbox in need of replacing. If your lower projector feed is turning along with the soundhead then you have a stripped gear in your E-7 head.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-29-2001, 04:00 PM:
Hi Randy. That is what we are trying to determine. So far, the best I can determine is that he has only one shaft turning, that being the lower holdback in the sound head. It sounds like the Constant Speed shaft is not turning. Of course, that is the shaft that also dives the projector head. He did the backlash test, but he may have caught some good gear teeth on the partially stripped gear.
That's why I asked the question as to whether the two shafts in the soundhead turn when he starts the motor.
As you said, if they both turn, then he has a gear that may be stripped in the E-7.
It can be difficult to figure out what is really happening when we lack so much information.
I wish they would report back on these forums as to what was actually wrong, as that info can be very valuable to use when another similar problem happens to someone else.
Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 03-29-2001, 05:51 PM:
Hi guys, the only thing that is working on the entire projector when I turn it on is the motor and the lowest sprocket roller within the soundhead, not the projector head. I hope this clears up the problems. Does this sound like something that'll be hundreds of dollars to fix, or relatively cheap.
Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 03-29-2001, 06:58 PM:
Now I only need to know what model soundhead you have. Your gear box is toast! I rebuild these things for a living. Here is how they work so you can understand what is wrong. There is a main Drive shaft inside the gearbox called the pinion shaft, this is directly coupled to the soundhead motor. The pinion shaft runs through the middle of the gearbox. This shaft in turn drives two bronze gears, each bronze gear is keyed to a constant speed shaft. The top gear is what typically goes bad due to the fact that it has no direct contact with any oil. If we do a rebuild exchange you are looking at a 300.00 rebuild at least, maybe more depending of how much damage is done. From the sound of your problem you most likely have a simplex or RCA soundhead, I just need to know a specific model number.
Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 03-29-2001, 07:58 PM:
Sorry I forgot to include that info in the post, but I have a RCA 1040 soundhead... thanks.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-29-2001, 10:09 PM:
As Randy said, your gearbox is toast. The gearbox is not that expensive to repair. New gears, (replace them both) gaskets, and bearings should do the trick. I doubt if the pinion shaft is bad.Probably the most likely cause of the gearbox failure was lack of oil as I have stated in my first post in this tread.
You will have to repair it yourself. The gearbox in the 1040 is not the type you pull out and send in like later vintage RCA sound heads.
Posted by Harry Robinson (Member # 265) on 03-30-2001, 12:53 AM:
What the heck Mike, we can trade out those gears when I'm out there the last week of April. I just went through this. It's not that hard, just a little intimidating if you've never done it. The secret of not having to go through all this again is to figure out that you have to seep the oil slowly into the 1040 gearbox until the level stops going down on the oil tube. Then you have to do that every time you run the thing.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-30-2001, 01:05 AM:
Hi, Harry.The best way to get the oil into the gear box is to force feed it. Stick the schnozola of your pump-style oil can into the oil cap, wrap some toilet paper around it, and give it some good powerful sqirts until it is full.
Then, clomp your lips around the oil cap and give it a hefty blow. Then watch the oil level return. If there still is not enough oil, repeat the procedure until there is enough oil.
Now, granted, the oil does not taste very good, and is not good for the human body. I have been doing it for years, and I am not dead yet.
You can always put a clean rag over the opening so your lips do not come in contact with the oil residues on the oil cap.
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 03-30-2001, 01:17 AM:
It was proceedure when I worked for Altec Service to run a pipe cleaner through the pipe every service call on the RCA & Simplex
soundheads. (The XL soundhead was bad because you had to unscrew the fill-sight tube in order to run the pipe cleaner through!) The others had a plug on the end of the pipe
that you would remove and the pipe cleaner would slide through easily. On the RCA 9030 & 9050 there is a breather hole in the top cover of the gearbox, if it is clear, oiling and sight levels will be easy and stay accurate. Another problem is oil under the 'flip' type caps on the Simplex heads that will air-lock and give a false oil reading!
It is wise to take a pair of wire cutters and make a notch on the rim of the oil cup, thus when the cap closes, it will not seal the cup! Many a dry soundhead gearbox was attributed to this problem!------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-30-2001, 01:23 AM:
Hi, JohnThose are some excellent ideas for people to follow. They do plug up at times.
Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 03-30-2001, 02:05 AM:
Dose the 1040 have a plug like the 1050? I take out the plug, it lets out the air when the oil is going in and when it runs out of the hole when its full. Randy is this true? Folks Randy is one of the best rebuilders on the west coast. He has rebuilt hundreds of projectors and soundheads.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-30-2001, 02:26 AM:
Daryl, I recall seeing those plugs you speak of, but I never used them for that purpose.
They would be a nice - if you have the projector sitting level. However, what about if you are in an outdoor with the projector sitting at a steep up angle? Or an "Old Barn" when the projector is sitting on the 3rd or 4th balcony?
I would rather rely on the old sight glass, and forget about the plug. I only toasted one gearbox in 34 years. That was in my first year. But as a tech, I rebuilt a ton of them.
Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 03-31-2001, 05:36 PM:
Paul Good point I forgot a couple of old barns that I have worked in and I remember the steep slope.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-02-2001, 05:40 AM:
Daryl, there was a theater in the Oakland Local jurisdiction that had a very steep projection angle. I can't remember which theater it was, but the projectionist was changing to a cinemascope lense and it got away from him. The porthole, I believe, was an insulated mega-phone style, with no glass.It slid down the chute, and landed in a customer's lap! All the projectionist heard was an "OOF!" The projectionist was a little afraid to go out there and ask, "Duh, can I have my lense back?" When he finally built up the courage to retrieve the lense, the customer handed to him politely.
Luckly, the patron was not injured. If it would have fallen on his head, he could have been killed.
That was the days when nobody sued anybody for anything. Today, that would have been a total disaster.
I know this has nothing to do with this tread, but I got a chuckle out of it when the steep angle entered the picture.
It is not a good idea to sit under the projection porthole of an old barn. You might be surprised at what comes out the chute.
In the sea going days of the early 1940's, the Ship's Master had one of those contraptions to communicate with the Chief Engineer in the control room. It looked like a funnel with a hose attached.
Get the picture? Since there are humans involved, more than likely, it has happened.
Pee into the Tube, Oh Toothless one....
---------------------------------------------
Good Day!
Paul, a Retired Navy Chief