This is topic Victoria 5 Projector, is it a myth? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Nate Miller (Member # 402) on 05-02-2001, 12:11 PM:
I was just hired by cinemark at a location in salt lake city, well I make it a habbit to find out as much as I can about the projectors that I will be using. However I can't seem to find anything about this model or who even makes it. Has anyone ever even seen the victoia 5 before?Nate Miller
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-02-2001, 12:14 PM:
Look in the manuals here under "Cinemecannica Victoria 5".
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-02-2001, 12:14 PM:
The Vic5 is built by cinemecanica and if one looks in the picture warehouse there is a lot of pictures of booths with them.
Not my favorite but they work
Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 05-02-2001, 02:23 PM:
Yep, I have seen and used the Cinemeccancia Victoria 5, just about every other cinema in the UK seams to have these belt driven projectors.They are not my best projector to operate.
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-02-2001, 02:49 PM:
Well,
Yes the well known CINEMECCANICA VICTORIA 5 model. It keeps over rulling the VICTORIA 8 model. You will hear various contradicting comments about the projector. Personally. It is my favourite model from all the Victoria Projectors. Being working with this baby for over 16 years now and NO PROBLEM except some regular maintance (oil e.t.c.). Easy threaded projector. The only sad thing about the Victoria series projectors is the electric connections e.t.c since they are so messy in contrast with Christie and Kinoton. Victoria 5 has been in the market for many many years. The new model of Victoria 5 can be shipped to a cinema with various options installed on it like the reel autowind (something like the tower system although on the excisting projector) and at the cinema which I am working me and my father modified the projectors so that the film rewinds on the projector and not on the rewind table!! I am sure many have done this modification or am I wrong?? Anyway. If you have any questions I would be glad to answer them since its MY favourite projector
Ciao for now
Demetris Thoupis"FOR STRENGTH AND HONOUR"
Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 05-02-2001, 02:58 PM:
It's not a myth ... it's a LEGEND. A legendary piece of 
Just my North American opinion.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 05-02-2001, 09:39 PM:
I'm also a fan of Cinemacannica. The V8 is my favorite, but I also used a V5 and a V9 for 10 years or so.I think, like anything, it depends on how you use it. Just like you would be crazy to install an expensive Norelco AA-2 in a plain-jane theater with a 20ft wide screen, you'd also be crazy to install a V5 in a premium theater with a 85ft wide screen (although I'm sure both have been done.)
They are easy to thread, although the path is different than American projectors, which throws off a person used to American projectors. They are easy to clean. Some have several remote options (lens, framing, focus. Parts are expensive, and (not often, but) sometimes hard to get. It has a belt drive; do yourself a favor and just change it every year. Don't wait for it to break.
I rarely had electrical problems myself. I did, however change the changeover solenoid fairly regularly. Personally, I think that whole gravity changeover design is a major failing of an otherwise decent medium-duty projector.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-02-2001, 11:11 PM:
Personally I find it amazing that they are still in buisness. Its only through operations like General Enema and Cinemark that they still are. The Vic 5 has had many gestations like the Christie P35 has, although not as many.
IMHO the Vic 5 has the most unsteady picture of any modern(?) machine I have seen on screen. Only an old Edison I once saw setup temporarily on screen had worse steadiness. Shakemechanicca has finally come out with a reasonably priced curved gate retrofit that should make the image steadier.
I once had a VIC 8 in my screening room and I have also have owned at least 2 pairs of VIC 10's. All of them are built very well but none of them could handle old brittle, slightly damaged, or a few missing perfs very well without breaking or damaging the film. These are definately NOT for use in a film archive!
On the other hand....
I certainly would consider installing DP-70's in a plex if I built one. I once did this in an art house in Chicago that had a pair of old gear eater Centurys. After the Norelcos went in they never had another problem. The only parts they replaced in 5 years of operation was a pair of 35mm gate bands and the normal exciter bulbs, plus the on screen image quallity increased at least 10 times! If properly maintained DP-70's will give rock steady images for decades with only oil changes, occasional sprockets and gate bands. Granted, if you pile up a shutter you're in trouble but you can get a whole replacement machine for less cost than the parts to repair a bad one.
I'll stick with the Norelco any day.......
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 05-03-2001, 06:53 AM:
Steve said:
<<Personally I find it amazing that they are still in buisness>>
ROTFL!!!Let me correct you, as an Italian citizen, that the correct name is "CINEMECCANICA" 
However I consider "Shakemeccanica" more appropriate...
Antonio
Posted by Will Morrow (Member # 792) on 05-03-2001, 06:11 PM:
Our brand new theater, just opened last June, has 11 houses fitted with 11 V4s. I am not even kidding. I have been told the company I work for (Jackson Entertainment/Jack Loeks Theaters owns at least 100 spares that it uses for parts. Pretty crazy huh? But we never get any complaints about picture quality. My only complaints are the leaking oil and the noise.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-03-2001, 06:12 PM:
Hi Antonio,
Don't blame this line on Steve....I coined it at least in this thread. I'm aware of the spelling but I also prefer the "coined" name too.Nate..... You could be worse off ya know. You could have been hired at 3300 and State St. They have worse equipment there...or ya could have landed at 90th and State where all the people from 3300 and State went to work. They have all obsolete sound equipment and a big projector that they have nicknamed "Mother" that has been a nightmare for them since opening.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 05-04-2001, 07:42 AM:
Mark,Shakemeccanica is fine!
My post was because I read often CINEMACCANICA, CINEMECCANNICA, CINEMECANNICA, CINEMECANICA, CINEMECCANCIA, CINEMACCANNICA and others but rarely the correct name "CINEMECCANICA"!!!
I agree with you about picture quality. However, just few days ago something strange happened: I swapped the maltese sprocket between my two CINEMECCANICA (!) V5 because I have a little scratch between perforations and I would see if the problem follow the sprocket. Picture stability on that projector improved dramaticaly!!! And picture stability of the other projector seems to be the same...
How is it possibile???
Antonio
Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 05-04-2001, 08:42 AM:
I've never used a Vic 5 but for the last several years I've had four Vic 4s and three Vic 8s in my booth. I don't like the 8s because they shake the image but I wouldn't sell my Vic 4s for anything. For 6 years now they have been virtually trouble free in my multiplex and for 24 years before that they were virtually trouble free in the twin house that they were originaly installed in.They do leak a little oil but then again..doesn't a good projectionist wipe down the machine and the area around them before threading? I have four spares in the booth that came from a house that my employer closed. I'm hoping that I get to keep them for a rumoured expansion to our complex.
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-04-2001, 01:09 PM:
On the V5 picture shake issue, I find that two factors play a big role.Firstly, the condition of the perforations on the film stock is vitally important. What bought this home to me was starting an advert reel a few weeks ago: the opening title logo of the advertising agency (which was very old, worn and had probably been run hundreds of times on many projectors) wobbled up and down like a dying fish. When the first actual ad came on (which was brand new stock), the picture was rock steady, like it was nailed to the screen. When I examined the film under a magnifying glass, I found that the leading edge of the perforations on one side were very slightly strained (on the logo footage), which I guess must have caused the instability.
So in the light of this, the result of Antonio's experiment swapping the intermittent sprockets makes sense.
The other factor is the condition of the main drive belt. Vic 5s don't have the nickname 'rubber band machines' for nothing - the rubber bands in question really are crucial to the accurate operation of every stage of the film's movement.
As the belt gets worn, the picture stability starts to go, as does the shutter timing. This is because the shutter gearbox and the intermittent unit are both driven by that same belt. If it gets stretched, worn and the gap between the two starts to vary, the intermittent movement gets less precise, as does its relation to the shutter rotation.
The bottom line? Replace the belts very frequently. We do them every six months and I'm starting to wonder whether we shouldn't reduce that interval to 3.
Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 05-04-2001, 07:32 PM:
Leo,Two question:
1. Ok, perforation's status is important. But I've swapped intermittent sprockets with the same film...
2. Belts: I change belts every 10 months, I've noted that after exactly 10 months belts start giving trouble! But I agree with you, 6 months is better.
Bye
Antonio
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-04-2001, 08:09 PM:
The belt change interval is really a function of hours rather than months. The manual suggests that belts should be changed every 2,000 hours. If we assume that a projector runs for 10 hours per day, seven days per week, that makes an average of 300 hours per month (10 x 30), 900 per quarter, 1,800 every six months or 3,600 per year.So basically what the manual says is every 6 months if it's the only projector for a screen, or yearly if it's part of a two projector installation (assuming both machines get roughly equal usage). IMHO, that's a tad optimistic. Certainly when the belts are approaching the end of this period I start to notice ghosting. You adjust the shutter to get rid of it, but it starts creeping back within a few days. 
Replace the belt and (i) this problem goes away, and (ii) the picture stops wobbling.
As for the perf damage, damaged sprocket teeth and damaged perforations will surely have the same effect, i.e. both will stop the film from being pulled through the gate accurately. That was why I made the link with your swapping the intermittent sprocket between two projectors. Of course damaged sprocket teeth can also CAUSE perforation damage (which I guess is what happened with my advert, inflicted by a previous user), but even if they do not I would have thought they would still affect the picture stability.
Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 05-04-2001, 11:42 PM:
If the belts have to be changed every 2000
hours,2000 hours, divided by 24 hours
means an estimated 83.3 days or an estimated
2 months,1 week and 6.3 days.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 05-05-2001, 12:01 AM:
The projector(s) only operate for about 10 hrs per day.
Posted by Tom Evans (Member # 857) on 05-05-2001, 06:54 PM:
Just be thankful that you don't have to run 30 Cinemeccanica Vic 5's a day...wot a headache..its like owning 30 cars. One good thing about belt driven projectors is that you don't have to grease the drive mechanisms every week...wot a nightmare that would be. The only complain I have is that the gate should be curved...or at least have tensioning bands...not great chucks of metal for the emulsion and film debris to build up on.------------------
Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-06-2001, 04:11 AM:
Hello All Again,
Well Tom. I see your point. But I know that recently Cinemeccanica introduced their new CURVED gate for Victoria 5 model. Prehaps you should see your local dealer whether he can supply you with those. That should give u a stedier picture I think . But I have to dissagree with you. These projectors are not a nightmare. They are actually very good projectors once you find out a proper maintance. Try some belt dressing for the belts. It will extend their life. Also. If you hear cracking noises from the intermittent of the projectors try rottating the crosses (meaning removing them and installing them the other way). It works every time. Crosses should be only changed when the picture starts to shake. DON'T try to adjust the tension of the gate to save money from changing them crosses. That will destroy your prints and a whole bunch of emulsion will be stucked in your gates!!
Take care for now.
Demetris Thoupis"FOR STRENGTH AND HONOUR"
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-06-2001, 06:44 AM:
The bottom line to all of this is that, IMHO, it IS possible to overcome the V5s tendency to picture shake and get a decent picture out of them. But its harder work than with many other projectors and the film stock has to be in physically very good condition.And as Tom points out, they do have their good points - not least the fact that their modular design means that virutally any maintenance job (apart from A-chain alignment) is within the ability of a competent, well trained projectionist and does not need an engineer call-out.
And yes, I am very glad I only have 5 of the little darlings to worry about!
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-06-2001, 10:31 AM:
I have glued the same velvet bands onto the gates of cinemecanicaV4 V5 V8 athat is used in ernaman and kinoton and found that makes a terrific difference to image stability and also to wear on the SRD track
The rotation of the intermitent sprocket on the shaft makes a fair bit of difference in stability it is almost as if one in nulling out so excentrics in both
Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 05-06-2001, 02:39 PM:
I'm sorry,What is a "velvet band"?
Bye
Antonio
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-06-2001, 04:45 PM:
For many years kinoton(phillips) and ernamann equipped there traps with stips of velvet ribbon that the perfs contacted with and they acted like tiny registration pins
Posted by Francis Casey (Member # 514) on 05-06-2001, 09:03 PM:
Gordon
I have 3 questions .
1--where do you get the velvet bands from and are they the same as used to keep IMAX SR feild flateners clean ?
2--what type of glue do you use to hold them in place ?
3--how often do you need to change them ?
We have several V4's and V8's in our circuit and i might want to try this trick on some of our shakier ones .
Thanks
Francis
Posted by Steffan Laugharne (Member # 800) on 05-07-2001, 11:38 AM:
Victoria 5 projector, is it a myth - IF ONLY
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-07-2001, 09:20 PM:
You can order the velvet band material form Kinton or ernamann agents
I use contct cement to glue it down with.
You must keep the velvet clean
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-07-2001, 09:29 PM:
The belts don't have to be changed every 2 or 3 months. The almightly (and very God-like) Bowles Crossing 12 theater here in Colorado uses V5s. They are lucky if they change the belts once a year. This is not due to technician laziness since the projectionist usually does it. And he doesn't need to do it quite that often. Maybe they have V8s, I dunno, but I think they are V5s. Whichever is the cheaper of the two. Either way, they are not exactly great machines. The person in charge of purchasing the booth equipment for that theater got a free trip to Italy from Cinemeccanica to "check them out". Otherwise they'd probably have Simplexes.
Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 05-08-2001, 07:14 AM:
<<The person in charge of purchasing the booth equipment for that theater got a free trip to Italy from Cinemeccanica to "check them out">>So, why they have bought Cinemeccanica?
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-08-2001, 03:33 PM:
Because he was bribed!According to the projectionist at the Bowles Crossing 12 movie palace, he only changes belts every 2 years, and he was told that was all that was necessary from the head technician from Milano when he was in town when the theater opened (or right before).
I have seen a lot of shutter ghosting at this theater, however.
Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 05-08-2001, 06:36 PM:
Joe,On my two V5 MI (with fast rewind) I MUST change belts every 10 months. I've noted that after exactly 10 months I have trouble with belts. 10 months, 10 days more, 10 days less... 
Cinemeccanica's head technician... eheh!! 
You should know Cinemeccanica's florence head technician!!!
I had ghosting problem one day but the belt was already broken and ghosting was annoying.
Bye
Antonio
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-08-2001, 06:40 PM:
Just reporting what was told to me.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-08-2001, 07:50 PM:
Joe you mentioned travel ghosting
That is a simptom of the belts stretching.
You either retime the red dots or replace the belts.
My simple rule whne you change the lamp (at 2000hrs) replace all the belts. The belts are cheap
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-08-2001, 09:56 PM:
Gordon-I agree, but the belts are not mine to change. That would be the resposibility of Colorado Cinema Holdings LLC Bowles Crossing 12 Theaters (theater company names just DO NOT get any better or more creative than that), a place I have never been affiliated with. Not directly, anyway. That said, it is still probably one of the best places in town to catch a movie nowadays.
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-10-2001, 07:56 PM:
The belts cost us UKP£6 (about US$10 I guess) each. If you stretch the change interval beyond 2,000 hours the projectors won't blow up or anything, but my experience has been that frequent changes helps to improve picture stability a lot. Given that the extra expense is so small, it seems to me to be worth it.
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 10-03-2005, 11:02 AM:
It has been 1606 days since the last post.
Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 10-03-2005, 11:02 AM: