Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: ORC 1000 110volt lamphouse question

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 05-08-2001, 09:38 AM:

I have a question about this lamphouse. First of all, what do you guys think of it? Are any of you using one? How many amps does it pull on the AC line? Is it something that can be on the same circuit as the projector motor (20 Amp)? Thanks

Bernie

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-08-2001, 10:19 AM:

The original product brochure for the Orcon 1000-35 recommends a 115 volt, 15 ampere circuit. The lamphouse has an internal 15 ampere circuit breaker on the back panel. I would advise separate circuits for projector and lamphouse.

Rated light output with a 1000 watt lamp was 11,000 lumens. Very compact (9 x 13 x 18 inches, 80 pounds). But I recall the components inside the lamphouse really "cooked", which could cause problems with age (brittle insulation and plastic parts). Be careful about good ventilation and keeping the blower intake clean.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-08-2001, 01:19 PM:

The M1000 is actually only rated at 700watts the M1600 is rated for 1000watts

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-08-2001, 01:37 PM:

Thanks Gordon. The old 1971 ORC product brochure I have isn't very clear on this. Indeed, it specifies a X-1000 lamp, which I had assumed (

) was rated 1000 watts. The low lamp current range of 15 to 35 amperes should have caught my eye. A true 1000 watt lamp would draw about 50 amperes. Their X-1600 lamp specified a current range of 30 to 55 amperes, so it was rated a true 1000 watts. Go figure.

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 05-08-2001, 03:17 PM:

I run a ORC 1000B (240v) at home with a 700kw Xenon, with the projector and equipment can run of a standard 13A pluged into the mains.

As Gordon stated, they were only designed to operate with a 700kw and not a 1000kw as most cinemas I have seen used them, they often cook the control board and the Anode strap.

Extra care when replacing Xenon lamps in the 1000B is that the Anode lead well clear the the metal mirror to avoid arcing.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-08-2001, 04:17 PM:

Indeed Gord is right about this. ORC derated the model 1000 to 700 watts back in the early 80's. Ya get the same light with the 700 watt lamp that you get with a 1 k lamp in it anyway. I personally like them allot. They are easy to service, parts are easily available except for major stuff like power x formers and chassis parts. Major parts have to be salvaged from another lamphouse. Mirrors are still available, or you can send your old one to Ultraflat and get it back either silvered or Dichroic. Your choice. The 6 that I have been running for years on location dailies have yet to fail me once. They are rather well taken care of and also have an auxillery exhaust system on them. They will run fine as long as you do this. No extra exhaust = trouble in the short run. Also if you have rectifier diode troubles replace them with 85A stud mounts and you'll never have another fail. Same with the blocking diode too. All other semi's and parts are off the shelf stuff.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 05-08-2001, 04:59 PM:

I run an ORC M1600 and believe me, it doesn't like dirt! You've got to keep them scrupulously clean, since everything is packed into one box, otherwise they'll run hot. The problem with trying to really clean them is the way they're assembled. It's practically impossible to really clean out the fan on the back of the chassis without pulling the whole darned lamphouse apart. I opted for some of those long brushes you can get from an aquarium supplier. They're used for cleaning out hoses and stuff and they'll reach way in there to loosen the schmutz. It'll blow the stuff all over your mirror, of course...so be sure to clean that off once you've loosened the crud and blown it around. I run the lamp at 45 amperes and at that current it draws around 17amps from the mains. You really want to run your M1000 on a separate circuit. It's a nasty thermal shock to the lamp if the thing blows a breaker and just stops with no fans running.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-08-2001, 07:54 PM:

Orc created there model numbers based on a comparison to the equivalent light output of the verticle lamphouses they were competeing against at the time of manufacture
As such a 1kw verticle = the 700watt horizontal.
They even had the nerve to rate a 4K system (2piece) as a 6500
Mark the RCA chip on the control board is very hard to get

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-08-2001, 10:04 PM:

Gord, If you need any of the RCA chips let me know. They are not really very hard to find down here. There are many places here in the U.S. that deal only in surplus-obsolete semiconductors.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Pete Lawrence (Member # 130) on 05-10-2001, 10:38 AM:

I have two of the ORC M1000 lamps, the newer versions with the flip up nose. They will eventually find their way behind a pair of E7s and RCA 1040 sound heads in my basement screening room. They only have around 200 hours on the run-time clocks, but haven't been used in probably 20 years. They both run, but I've decided to replace all the electrolytic caps on the control cards just due to their age. The big electrolytics still seem to be OK. John Eickhof was kind enough to get me a complete manual, the one in the manuals section here is missing several important sections.

I have a couple of questions regarding some of the previous posts.
Mark G., could you describe the extra exhaust setup you use.
John A., you mention the fans shutting off abruptly if a breaker pops, but shutting the lamp off from the rear panel switch also shuts down the fans immediately. Have you re-wired things so the fans stay on?
There is a factory label on the rear panel that says "use only 1600 watt lamps". Can anyone explain why?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-10-2001, 04:06 PM:

A 1600 is too big for the M1000 in fact a 1k is two big. What is scarry is I was in a theatre that had the short 2K lamp stuck in one and it was cooking

Posted by Pete Lawrence (Member # 130) on 05-10-2001, 07:12 PM:

I have to retract my previous statement about it saying "use only 1600 watt lamps". It actually says:

And the ORC M1000 manual says the following:

quote:
The nominal current after warm-up for the X1000 lamp is 35 amps, and for the X1600 lamp, 40 amps. The range of adjustment is approximately 15 to 35 amps for the X1000 lamp and 15 to 40 amps for the X1600 lamp. The X1000 and X1600 lamps can be run continuously at current levels of 35 amps and 40 amps respectively.

Elsewhere the book says the nominal lamp voltage is 21 volts. That makes a X1000 @ 35amps = 735 watts and a X1600 @ 40amps = 840 watts. There is no question they are not running any where near 1KW.

Now my question is what is the real rating of an ORC X1600 lamp? 1KW or 1.6KW? Did ORC play with the numbers and derate the lamps themselves as Mark suggested?

*** Added after the above was posted ***

The above was taken from a 1973/1974 version of the M1000 manual. The 1977 version ( the short version available here in the manuals section) references ORC XL-750W and XL-1000W bulbs. I guess ORC changed their numbering system. Talk about confusing!!

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 05-10-2001, 11:16 PM:

I also have the question about the external fan too? Do you need it because the internal shuts off when the lamp shuts off? Would you need it if the internal fans were rewired to run as long as there is AC going into the unit?

Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 05-11-2001, 10:50 AM:

It has been a few years since I had one of these jewels running in my basement, but I seem to recall that I wired a separate switch across the connector on the backside of the lamphouse. This connector is for use with automation systems. Having the manual switch meant that I could turn the lamp off but leave the blower on while I put the booth to bed for the night. After five minutes or so you put your hand over the exhaust and it will feel cool and you know that it is time to flip the breaker and go upstairs for a nightcap.

By the way, does anyone have an extra spreader lens for one of these? I have one with a cracked lens that I would like to replace.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-11-2001, 02:28 PM:

I do that very thing with these units, re wire internally so that the fans run independant of the lamp, the increase in xenon life was quite remarkable!

Over here we seem to get 100B and 1600B (Euro models??) I think (and it's been a while) that these are rated 1000 and 1600 watts respectively, but I totally concur that it's best to run these little babies below their rating, as they do tend to get a little warm.

We don't have nay problems getting the electronic parts here, it's just the mechanical bits that are getting scarce now, shame really, IMHO a good working ORCON is good little light.

Posted by Pete Lawrence (Member # 130) on 05-11-2001, 02:54 PM:

Bill, I got one of the negative lenses for the M1000 from John Eickhof at Northwest Theatre Equipment Co. (in the links section) a while back. He says he has a lot of parts for these things.

Thanks for the info on letting the fans run. While I'm inside cleaning out the crawly creatures I'll modify them.

Posted by Bill Purdy (Member # 202) on 05-11-2001, 03:51 PM:

Pete, thanks for the referral. While you are in there going after the dirt be sure to include the bottom chamber where the transformer lives. It is much harder to get to and so is not always done. If I am not mistaken, the cooling air comes in through the bottom and then up across the bulb. Accumulated dirt around the transformer then throttles the air flow and you can guess the rest.

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Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 11-27-2005, 02:53 AM:

It has been 1660 days since the last post.

Posted by Mark Haskett (Member # 2981) on 11-27-2005, 02:53 AM:

Hi there. We run a Orcon 1000 with a 750w bulb.
It really is too dark. I want to put a 1000w bulb in it but.... It sounds like you are all against that idea. Does anyone have suggestions for getting more light out of this lamphouse? We have a 38ft throw.
Check us out at www.centralcinema.net
I think we are the smallest commercial theater in the country.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-27-2005, 03:38 AM:

The only good ORC is a dead ORC. [Razz]

Seriously, just make sure the optical train of your projection system is properly aligned. Reflector resurfacing, as Mark noted, may help. If it were me, though, I'd just replace it with something more reliable and optically efficient, like a Super Lumex. A 750 watt bulb in one of those would run rings around the ORC.

Btw, the throw doesn't affect the light on the screen... for a given lens, the same amount of light is in the beam at 5ft. as there is at 40ft... or 100ft. It's when the throw mandates a very long focal length lens that you lose light... but that is a function of the lenses inefficiency, not the distance. The more pertinent statistic would be how wide the screen is.

Good luck to you! [Smile]

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 11-27-2005, 06:18 AM:

quote:
I run a ORC 1000B (240v) at home with a 700kw Xenon

Isn't the picture a bit bright? Do you have your own power station at home to run it from? [Smile]